Finland to Alabama, US

[Theurgist]

Hi,

I chose my avatar and handle for this forum from a tabletop roleplaying game titled Mage: the Awakening. It’s something that my girlfriend chose for me semi-randomly, because we like to do such little things for each other.

I just stumbled on this website today. After a while looking around I noticed that there are a lot of very useful looking resources on the website and I really like being a part of communities. I’m a 37-year software programmer living in Finland, and I’m dating an American woman living in Alabama, US. So, there’s a bit of distance between us and we have yet to meet face-to-face. Well, other than video calls. We met through an online discussion group. Neither one of us was looking to find a romantic connection through that group, but once we started talking to each other privately through emails one things lead to another very quickly.

This is my first-ever romantic long distance relationship. Before this relationship I formed a very powerful non-romantic bond to a woman living in the Belgium, so I have some experience in how this whole long distance relationship is supposed to work. I’m going to call her my sister, because that is how I think of her, even though we don’t have any blood relation. My relationship with my sister started out through a mutually agreed upon agreement, and then deepened into a mutual appreciation of each other.

What I have with my girlfriend is completely different. We found an intimate connection between each other that I have never experienced before. Even though we are thousands of miles apart I can feel her with me every day of my life wherever I go. I can feel my emotions and desire for her like the distance doesn’t matter at all. All of this is new for me, even though I have some idea as to what to expect and what’s going to happen in the future.

Right now the goal is to get to know each other as well as we can without actually being in the same physical space together. We have only been dating for a little over a month now, so both of us are very protective of our relationship. We haven’t really discussed it with anyone else. We have talked about keeping it private until we are past the first 3-4 months and are committed to each other. So, our relationship is very new, but at the same time it feels like we are drawn to each other with an intensity and desire that’s very hard to put into words.

I have come to this community to learn and listen to everyone who is here. I want to give this relationship the best possible chance. I have every intention of moving to the United States a couple of years from now, so that I can be with my girlfriend. However that’s not the only reason. Professionally speaking moving to the US is simply a smart career move. In the meanwhile we will do everything that’s necessary to make our relationship thrive.

The reason why I don’t just make the move right now seems rather obvious. Moving halfway across the world is going to be stressful and taxing. I don’t want our new relationship to break apart, because I put too much strain on it. Instead I would rather let our relationship grow for a year or two, and then put us through the stress and strain of me moving halfway across the world to a new culture and a new life with her.

In the meanwhile I would like to be a part of this community. I would like to learn from all of you.

[erwin1973]

Welcome to the forum.

Read and learn, use common sense and you'll have a good relationship. I haven't met my lady either and sadly it will take a little while before we do. Stay happy.

[Moon]

Hello, hei, moi. Welcome to LFAD!

A bit of advice from a seasoned LD vet, stop worrying about moving. You haven't even met yet Visit each other's countries first, meet, and after a few visits, then worry about moving.

You will definitely have some culture shock in Alabama. My Finn did in South Carolina, and that's a progressive oasis compared to Alabama, be ready for that.

I've been to Finland something like 15+ times, and he's been here pretty often, too. If you have any specific questions from another US/Suomi relationship, feel free to PM me

[Theurgist]

Hello, hei, moi. Welcome to LFAD!

Hei!

A bit of advice from a seasoned LD vet, stop worrying about moving. You haven't even met yet Visit each other's countries first, meet, and after a few visits, then worry about moving.

It's something that's been on my mind, but honestly my brain is still full of all those wonderful "love" hormone that come with connecting with a new romantic interest. I might seem coherent and assertive in the way I write, but inside I'm all mush. Excitement, happiness, desire and lust all filling my head until there's hardly room for anything else. Of course I want to be with her, so I daydream about it and make all sorts of plans.

You will definitely have some culture shock in Alabama. My Finn did in South Carolina, and that's a progressive oasis compared to Alabama, be ready for that.

I have been trying to get a feel for what it might really be like. It's just rather hard, because my main source of information is also my love interest. I have seen plenty enough documentaries and movies about the US, but that's not the same thing as actually being there. So, I'm slowly trying to understand what it's really like to liver over there and not jump to too many conclusions while trying to discard any preconceptions. I'm constantly getting more hints that paint a better picture of reality.

I've been to Finland something like 15+ times, and he's been here pretty often, too. If you have any specific questions from another US/Suomi relationship, feel free to PM me

I'm planning on coming over for a visit for the first time sometime next year. Never actually been to the US, so that's going to be a whole thing all by itself. I'm much more accustomed to traveling within North Europe and making the occasional trip down to "South" into mainland Europe. Simply getting helpful hints on the logistics of visiting the US would be a great start

[Moon]

The logistics aren't that bad, but you won't get a direct flight, you'll have a layover, or two. Finnair has hubs in NYC and Chicago, but there are other airlines flying out of Helsinki-Vantaa you can take (like Iceland air, British Airways, KLM, Air Berlin, etc). Be prepared for the possibility of being questioned by customs when you arrive, it's normal, just be calm and truthful. Going from the US to European places gets the same treatment often, my last flight in, the guy was a jerk. While Finland is part of the Visa Waiver Program, you'll need an ESTA to come here. It's a pre-approval and it good for two years, unless you get a new passport, then you have to renew it again, I think.

Keep in mind that the US is bigger than you think For us, driving a few hours to get somewhere is no big deal. The place is huge! Also, tax isn't included in the prices you'll see, and every state has a different tax amount and structure. If you buy a postcard at Walmart for $1 in Pennsylvania, you'll pay $1.06 Have fun figuring out our tax system. Your taxes are higher, but they're right there on the price tag, ours aren't!

Despite their reputation for some things, people in the south will be very friendly to you. It will be weird for you Don't be intimidated, the friendliness is genuine and people will be happy to help you in anyway you need. They're much nicer initially down south than anywhere else in the country. The hospitality is genuine.

If at all possible, fly into New York, it really is a sight to see! If you can, maybe meet your girlfriend there, and spend a day or two there first. It's an amazing city and would be a shame to miss.

Walmart. My guy LOVES Walmart. He cannot believe how cheaply he can buy stuff Go to Walmart.

Southern food is phenomenal, and incredibly unhealthy. Not a bad idea to have something for an upset stomach ready.

I hear the gulf shores in Alabama are incredible, I hope you get to see them.

Anything else, just ask

[C.C.]

I'll go with the only one Moon didn't use already, so, terve!

Goodness, I was actually wishing the other day that there were a Finn or someone in a relationship with one and here it is. And a guy too! (we don't really have many guys here in general)

Welcome here and hope you enjoy the stay. This site can be super helpful :3

Anyway, I never got the chance to visit the country while I was dating my Finnish ex, but I have read lots of stories about Americans talking about Finland/Finns or the differences/cultural shock and my assumption was that those two cultures are like polar opposites. So definitely do the visits first and try to get used to the place and all that.

Also, offtopic but can I ask you something?
I was talking to a friend who works in the US yesterday and I mentioned how I'd rather work in Europe (I was thinking about Finland but that's not relevant) and he said that it was much better to live and work in the US. And bigger salaries was his main argument, which I really don't care as much about.

So what else did you mean by it's better in the US career wise? I am a computer science major btw, tho it is kinda obvious

[Theurgist]

I'll go with the only one Moon didn't use already, so, terve!

Welcome here and hope you enjoy the stay. This site can be super helpful :3

Terve! On ilo olla täällä kanssanne, ja päästä tutustumaan erityisesti Yhdysvaltalaisiin.

Anyway, I never got the chance to visit the country while I was dating my Finnish ex, but I have read lots of stories about Americans talking about Finland/Finns or the differences/cultural shock and my assumption was that those two cultures are like polar opposites.

The short of it is that most Finns are a "bit" more distant when it comes to new people. Uninterested in small-talk, but quite willing to do business and talk shop. Once you get to know us, then you see that we are a very passionate, empathic and open people. In private, where no one else besides you will see it. In a lot of respects I'm a very typical Finn, but in other respects I'm not. I'm much more open about my emotions and thoughts to complete strangers, but I'm also perfectly happy drinking my morning tea, reading a newspaper and not so much as making eye-contact with anyone around a company coffee table. When so inclined we are very polite and hospitable, but by default you don't get that treatment. You get left alone to do your own thing as long as you are not bothering anyone.

One of my faults is that I have a hard time asking personal or private questions from other people, which incidentally includes my girlfriend. I don't like to intrude or push into anyone's personal space - physical or otherwise. It's really easy for me to introduce myself, talk about myself and make space for others around me. It is less than easy for me to ask the same of other people, because that's how I have been raised. I'm pretty big (about 6'5'', or 196cm), so from a very young age I have been taught to be mindful of other people around me. First physically when I was very young and then later on mentally through being accepting of others and differences in them.

Also, offtopic but can I ask you something?
I was talking to a friend who works in the US yesterday and I mentioned how I'd rather work in Europe (I was thinking about Finland but that's not relevant) and he said that it was much better to live and work in the US. And bigger salaries was his main argument, which I really don't care as much about.

So what else did you mean by it's better in the US career wise? I am a computer science major btw, tho it is kinda obvious

Since you asked I'll run you through my main economic concerns when it comes to living in Finland. In addition to being a professional programmer I also have a Bachelor's degree in Business Administration. Some hard numbers ahead...

Before I receive my monthly sallary more than a third is taken out by taxes and whatnot. Our individual income tax is a staggered system, which isn't very complex to explain, but would take up too much space without adding a lot of value to the discussion. Capital income tax is 34 % for 2016, so if you have any property, company shares or anything else that's generating revenue then have fun paying that.

After I have money in my hand most things and services have a 24 % VAT. Food has 14 % VAT. Books, medicines, movies, theater, cultural events and such have a 10 % VAT. There are a few very specific things that have a 0 % VAT, but that's hardly worth mentioning.

That's just me as a private citizen. There are some other odds and ends, but those are the really big numbers.

Now we get into the corporate side, which is where things get really interesting. That VAT above? You need to take it into account when competing against the rest of the world. That cuts into your bottom line something fierce unless you have a product or service that doesn't have a lot of competition. Unlikely, but possible. Even if you don't compete with price there are plenty of other ways to lose your profits. If you have employees then every one of those employee costs approximately 1.6 or 1.7 times their total sallary, so make sure you only hire the right people and make sure that you get the maximum benefit out of them. Having too many employees will kill your company, but not having enough will do that too when someone bigger comes along and eats up your market share. Also, once you manage to make some profit the government taxes you a flat 20 % (in most cases) from every euro you manage to pocket.

This has lead to a situation where Finland has a very large service industry, a bit of agriculture, a bit of energy, a bit of forestry and very little heavy industry. It's the last one that's the real problem, because heavy industry is what makes an economy thrive. It's those all-important blue-collar jobs. The US has lot of natural resources, a vast work force and plenty of heavy industry to make other industries thrive. Right now I would say that the number one issue with the US economy is that it's wasteful. You spend ridiculous amounts of money and resources on things that bring you minimal added value. What you need is more generalists like me to make better use of what you already have. You have the best specialists in the world, but what you need are more generalists, who can think outside one specific field and bring entirely different fields together for greater gain for everyone. I know programming and I also know business administration. That puts me on a completely different level when compared to your average programmer.

When it comes to companies bigger is not automatically better, but I like to play with the newest and shiniest toys. Work on the bleeding edge of IT and business administration. Bigger companies give me the opportunity to do so, and they also provide me with the ability to make full use of my skills and knowhow. America is the land of big companies and big sallaries. Sure, I'm not that interested in making tons of money, but I won't complain about it either.

[Theurgist]

Minor things.

I'm a very pale white male. I do tan a little bit during the Summer months, but since that's only 2-3 months every year at the best of times my skin color is very pale.

So, presumably sunblock. Tons and tons of sunblock. 68° F is warm for me, and anything above 77° F is hot.

I'm okay with -31° F that's dry enough to make skin break, but I'm not sure if I can handle 95° F with high humidity. As I'm writing this it's 53° F in July, in Finland. It's cloudy and windy out there.

I would also imagine that in such heat and humidity I would sweat through every bit of cloathing I have very quickly. I would probably need a lot of liquids and electrolytes just to keep functioning.

Let's just say that I'm a bit scared to come over during the Summer.

[C.C.]

Terve! On ilo olla täällä kanssanne, ja päästä tutustumaan erityisesti Yhdysvaltalaisiin.

Oh a sentence Google Translate translated properly for once

The short of it is that most Finns are a "bit" more distant when it comes to new people. Uninterested in small-talk, but quite willing to do business and talk shop. Once you get to know us, then you see that we are a very passionate, empathic and open people. In private, where no one else besides you will see it. In a lot of respects I'm a very typical Finn, but in other respects I'm not. I'm much more open about my emotions and thoughts to complete strangers, but I'm also perfectly happy drinking my morning tea, reading a newspaper and not so much as making eye-contact with anyone around a company coffee table. When so inclined we are very polite and hospitable, but by default you don't get that treatment. You get left alone to do your own thing as long as you are not bothering anyone.

You drink tea in the morning instead of 7 cups of coffee?
Seriously, though. I have always been a private person and loved the privacy I got. Over here it's kind of in between that and the US, I think. You don't get too many casual conversations, especially with strangers, but you don't get that much privacy either. And I have always needed the later more, but who knows, maybe Finnish one would be too much for me.

One of my faults is that I have a hard time asking personal or private questions from other people, which incidentally includes my girlfriend. I don't like to intrude or push into anyone's personal space - physical or otherwise. It's really easy for me to introduce myself, talk about myself and make space for others around me. It is less than easy for me to ask the same of other people, because that's how I have been raised. I'm pretty big (about 6'5'', or 196cm), so from a very young age I have been taught to be mindful of other people around me. First physically when I was very young and then later on mentally through being accepting of others and differences in them.

Wow you are tall even for a Finn, I think. And I seriously like that kind of bringing up. And I had the opposite situation with my ex. I would talk a lot about myself, cause I am that way. But he couldn't naturally tell things about himself unless asked.

Since you asked I'll run you through my main economic concerns when it comes to living in Finland. In addition to being a professional programmer I also have a Bachelor's degree in Business Administration. Some hard numbers ahead...

Before I receive my monthly sallary more than a third is taken out by taxes and whatnot. Our individual income tax is a staggered system, which isn't very complex to explain, but would take up too much space without adding a lot of value to the discussion. Capital income tax is 34 % for 2016, so if you have any property, company shares or anything else that's generating revenue then have fun paying that.

After I have money in my hand most things and services have a 24 % VAT. Food has 14 % VAT. Books, medicines, movies, theater, cultural events and such have a 10 % VAT. There are a few very specific things that have a 0 % VAT, but that's hardly worth mentioning.

That's just me as a private citizen. There are some other odds and ends, but those are the really big numbers.

Now we get into the corporate side, which is where things get really interesting. That VAT above? You need to take it into account when competing against the rest of the world. That cuts into your bottom line something fierce unless you have a product or service that doesn't have a lot of competition. Unlikely, but possible. Even if you don't compete with price there are plenty of other ways to lose your profits. If you have employees then every one of those employee costs approximately 1.6 or 1.7 times their total sallary, so make sure you only hire the right people and make sure that you get the maximum benefit out of them. Having too many employees will kill your company, but not having enough will do that too when someone bigger comes along and eats up your market share. Also, once you manage to make some profit the government taxes you a flat 20 % (in most cases) from every euro you manage to pocket.

This has lead to a situation where Finland has a very large service industry, a bit of agriculture, a bit of energy, a bit of forestry and very little heavy industry. It's the last one that's the real problem, because heavy industry is what makes an economy thrive. It's those all-important blue-collar jobs. The US has lot of natural resources, a vast work force and plenty of heavy industry to make other industries thrive. Right now I would say that the number one issue with the US economy is that it's wasteful. You spend ridiculous amounts of money and resources on things that bring you minimal added value. What you need is more generalists like me to make better use of what you already have. You have the best specialists in the world, but what you need are more generalists, who can think outside one specific field and bring entirely different fields together for greater gain for everyone. I know programming and I also know business administration. That puts me on a completely different level when compared to your average programmer.

When it comes to companies bigger is not automatically better, but I like to play with the newest and shiniest toys. Work on the bleeding edge of IT and business administration. Bigger companies give me the opportunity to do so, and they also provide me with the ability to make full use of my skills and knowhow. America is the land of big companies and big sallaries. Sure, I'm not that interested in making tons of money, but I won't complain about it either.

Thank you for taking your time and writing all this :3 Gave me a better idea about the situation.
I actually like the tax system, though, as far as I understand it. And I only have a basic idea. But for a regular citizen, higher taxes mean that the state helps them when they are in need. Like if you suddenly lose your job or something, right? So I see it as less money but more stability.
However it does look awful for small companies and probably affects their approach a lot too. Either way, I got your point of view.

[Theurgist]

Oh a sentence Google Translate translated properly for once

Finnish is part of the Finno-Ugric language group, which is wholly different to the Germanic language group English is part of. I played around with Google Translate to make sure that you would get the gist of what I want to say while I wrote that sentence.

You drink tea in the morning instead of 7 cups of coffee?

I'm a Highly Sensitive Person, so I don't need more than a single cup of green or black tea to get me going in the morning. I found the YouTube video you linked hillarious, though. Dude had a proper accent too, whereas I sound more like a Brittish native.

To get back on topic I'm currently balancing between paying a lot of attention to my girlfriend and finding time for myself. Also, allowing her some peace every now and then. Right now we are trying out this thing where we don't spend time with each other during the weekends. This may sound a little weird, but both of us can drive the other to such distraction until sleeping at night or concentrating on anything else becomes difficult. So that's a thing that we are currently working on.

The things that are wonderful and challenging about our relationship are the same. Our relationship is intense and intimate.

From the beginning we have talked about how we are the sorts of people who need to start long-distance. That this is desirable for us, because of the way we are.

I could wax poetically about my girlfriend for entire pages, but there are other section of this forum where to put that sort of stuff.

I'm very tempted to go buy a couple of those bracelets and send her one around my birthday. My girlfriend definitely appreciates such physical representation of our relationship and I'm not opposed to the idea.

[C.C.]

Oh I know how different Finnish is. My ex boyfriend explained the cases to me. I still have nightmares about it

And Google or Facebook translate is bad for languages like Finnish or my language, which is Georgian. Both languages are really versatile and have lots of suffixes/prefixes and so on. And all of that is somehow dependent on context as well and I don't know about you guys but my language has lots of exceptions to the rules too, so I think it's super hard to build any properly working translation system mostly because of that.