Not good enough to marry.

[Zephii]

I didn't read all the responses because I'm on my phone, I apologize if I missed something or am repeating something.
Perhaps your ex didn't lie. Maybe at that two year mark he genuinely believed he would be ready by thst five year mark, but he misjudged himself. Maybe it had nothing to do with you at all.
Marriage gas never been a .huge thing for me personally, but kids is. I had a similar conversation with my finace as you had with your ex. I said 'this is as late as I'm willing to wait for children, if you dont think you will be ready by then, let me know" (and you gave a longer time period, so cudos to you). I think it is good to be upfront about your goals and needs.
With your current relationship... You can't hold a new person accountable for the mistakes of the previous partner. That destroys an awful lot of relationships.

Sometimes when I'm obsessing over something like this I ask myself "what's the worst that will happen?" In this case the worst that might happen is you will end up back where you are now. And that's not so bad. You're doing all right really. It's not ideal, but its not the end of the world either.

[Bethypoo]

I am not someone who ever wanted to be married. I always thought that it didnt matter. Why does it have to be legal. IDK, i am weird like that. But as I am getting older and the longer I am with my SO the more I do want marriage (but maybe that is because he wants marriage).

Any way, you aren't defective. You just have to realize that some men will take longer than others to actually marry. In the case of your first SO that you left. I agree with you. He was just stringing you along and it wasnt what you needed or wanted.

But you need to stop being so dependent on men. You have two years, take that at face value. Dont jump to the worst that this wont work and he will never marry you. If he offered to go to you and marry you just so you felt better, i am sure that those marriage feelings are there. But GOOD JOB at knowing that was not a good idea. Anyway, i dont believe in the who trust love thing. I know that things dont work out the way you want them to. But you either need to jump in or not. Either way you may lose. But it is up to you to make that choice.

[thatgirllit]

thatgirllit -

I sympathize with the whole North American attitude of keeping an open mind about other cultures. The whole, we're all equal in our different ways. I hardly ever mention how I truly feel about multiculturalism, because I find it's a very unpopular opinion here, but I think "we're all equal in different ways" is an untenable position to hold. No. Actually, I think how your culture treats women is wrong. I think you are completely incorrect about this issue, and I do not respect this "equal but different" cultural view. On the flip side, I guess I can recognize when a culture other than mine does something better (the sense of community that exists in Japan springs to mind), but I can't get to that because I'm already pegged as a racist. A lot of people in China were very rude, and I didn't like it, and people in Japan are much nicer and this is better. Full stop. Whoops, sorry, off topic.

Japan then. It's hard to give you suggestions because I'm not sure what kind of things you like to do, but I can definitely tell you what I liked. Keep in mind I like smaller places, I like walking, and I'm a massive geek. I also lived in Osaka, so I know that area best.

Hope that gives you a few ideas! I sort of miss Japan now.

Lunch with you could take forever...

*copy an print* I literally just copied and sent your post to my friend. I can tell you miss it and I am that much more excited to go. THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for the comprehensive recommendations.

[greensweatergirl]

floridaellen -

It makes complete sense. As for Japan, have you heard that the Japan Tourism Office is considering giving 10 000 free flights to foreigners to bolster tourism? Prime opportunity for you to go!

Zephii -

You make a very valid point. One I had (somehow) not thought of. I guess it still leaves me feeling hurt though, because he could have mentioned that at year 3, or year 4, or at any point when he wasn't sure that was prior to when I broke up with him. To be honest though I don't think that was the case, because in those circumstances he would have still cared about me, even if he didn't feel ready. And upon breaking up with him he shrugged, fell asleep, took up a new exercise regime the following day, and within a couple of months had lots of photos up of him cuddling all his new teenage Japanese girlfriends. Not really the reaction of a person who loved me but wasn't ready. I guess I just want to ask him, "why on earth were you with me for so freaking long, if you cared about me so little?".

I know the absolute worst that could happen is that I end up back where I am now, albeit older, and that I'd probably have a shiny new certificate too, whereas I only have a useless degree right now. I guess I just feel like the life someone sold me was already stolen once, I'm worried it will be stolen from me again. I had a lovely life built up in Japan, but it was built on very temporary, shifting sands and it hurt so much when it disappeared. I'm not sure I could get through going through that all over again.

Bethypoo-

I agree with you about jumping in with two feet first to make this work. I'm in or I'm out. I also think this applies to seeing myself as a team member in my new relationship. I lived with my ex boyfriend, but we didn't see each other as one unit, and I think that really hurt us in the long run.

I'm not sure what you mean though when you say I'm dependent on men. This thread is about how I feel uncomfortable about building a life whose continuance is dependent on someone else. Maybe I'm missing something or I've overlooked something. Could you explain what you meant?

thatgirllit -

Fantastic! There's one more recommendation I have. I can't believe I forgot it the first time round. Go to an onsen (Japanese spa). It's a bunch of women milling around stark naked taking hot baths. Winter is the nicest time to do it too, especially if there's an outdoor area. You're having a nice bath, but the outside air is a little chilly. A lot of rural places have them at the foot of hiking trails, which is the best thing Japan has ever done. You're tired after a long day of hiking, then you soak in a tub, then slip into a yukata and pass out in the relaxation rooms, without having to worry about anyone stealing anything off you because it's Japan. Not all places have relaxation rooms, especially the older or smaller ones, but I still think onsening is a must during your stay. And onsens are absolutely everywhere, so you can do this no matter where you travel.

[Engel]

Marriage has never been a .huge thing for me personally, but kids is. I had a similar conversation with my finace as you had with your ex. I said 'this is as late as I'm willing to wait for children, if you dont think you will be ready by then, let me know"

I did the same. since the begin of our relationship I made it clear for my SO that I would be a mother someday, before Im 30. with or without him. I actually want it between 26 and 28, and 30 would really be the longest I could ever possibly wait.


I never wanted to get married, but I always, since I can remember, wanted to be a mother, and would never give that up. If I had to do it alone, I would.

[Miramaid]

didnt read all the posts but i am 27 and i feel exactly the same. My exes all tell me how smart, kid, beautiful etc. i am and that my future husband will be the happiest man yet none of them stayed with me and many cheated. Now i totally feel the same as u do

[digitalfever]

You do have a lot going for you besides your boyfriend! Let’s put everything on the table here: You are moving to England (yay!), you are furthering your education (yay!) and you will get to see and experience another country and culture all while being with someone that you love (triple yay!) You’ve got a ton going for you right now.
I’m going to be honest. Marriage does not equal security. I think your fears come from giving yourself fully to someone and not seeing the product of that come to its grand finish. Which is understandable I think we’d be kidding ourselves if we didn’t think about the future, where our future is going and what could happen; it’s a good thing your being realistic here….. thing might not work out but they also could.
I think the only thing you can do is keep a realistic outlook and be open with one another. Love the time that you have with your SO and really discuss openly (not emotionally) what you want and what he wants and where he sees this going when you get closer to your visa coming up. You have two years, which means you have a year to really determine if you want to marry your SO.

[greensweatergirl]

Miramaid -

Please don't be down on yourself. It doesn't matter what they think or said to you - what matters is what you think. Unfortunately sometimes we end up with a long string of less than great boyfriends. It can be really hard to keep faith that someone truly great will come along, someone who's words will match their actions, but they are out there. I promise. Please don't listen to your past douchetardy boyfriends. Don't let them make you feel this way when they're not in your life anymore.

digital fever -

You remind me of my hilarious and very sweet friend who likes to punctuate every sentence with "Yay!", "Hooray!" or in her particularly exuberant moments, "A million yays and hoorays!". You're right about all the good things in my life. After one incredibly shitty year, things are finally coming together. You've got some great advice.

And I've realized something since I posted - my boyfriend actually brings up marriage with no prompting from me, which further boosts my confidence that he's not playing me. No guarantees in life, I know, I know, but it's lovely to know a partner takes your dreams seriously and is willing to discuss a future with me. He actually asked me for my ring size last week. O.o



It's so strange that this thread was dug up from the deep recesses of the forum archive on today of all days.

Not that anyone out there is particularly bothered, but I spent a long time mulling over thatgirlit's comments on my rather low self esteem and how it was imperative that it be improved. I realized the times when I've built the most confidence in the past were when I had done things that petrified me. Case in point: when I was young I was insanely shy, and I knew it would keep me back from doing a lot of things I wanted to in life, so at the start of high school I decided (still not sure how) that if I became a high school drama star all my problems would be magically solved. My logic was that if I could get myself on stage I would get out all my nervousness there, and everyday social interactions would become a breeze. To my utter amazement, it actually worked. It took about 5 years, but it worked. I still do get nervous in large groups, but my shyness isn't the problem it used to be.

Anyways, I decided I needed to accomplish something that was really frightening again. I looked back at some of things I've left undone in the past because I was scared, but there was no point in finishing them now. I don't need to go after a BAH for the editing courses I'm taking, I'm too old to get hired as a lifeguard now even I did finish my last course, etc. Then it hit me - driving.

I hate driving with a passion. I don't understand the mentality that lets people happily put themselves in a cube of metal every morning, then zip along roads with other metal cubes filled with lunatics who drive with no hands and think red lights are optional. It's insanely scary. My first driving instructor from 5 years ago got so fed up with my nervousness that he refused to continue teaching me .

Anyhow, where I live there's a ridiculous 3 step licensing program, and while I have the 2nd license which lets me drive on my own, it was due to expire in July if I didn't pass the final test and then I'd have to start the process all over again. I figured I'd just fly to England, let my license lapse and never worry about cars again, but then got all Rocky Balboa on myself and thought - let's do this thing. Stop being a pussy. Go to England with an international driver's license in hand. My parents agreed to lessons for a birthday/Christmas present. I wound up with an amazing instructor who didn't seem to care if he went 3 hours over my allotted scheduled time, and seemed as devoted to me getting my license as I was.

Today I took the test. I was so nervous and made lots of stupid mistakes and thought I was bound to fail - but I was amazed when I the tester said I'd passed. Barely, but I don't care. I did it! Yay! And now I can get my visa and book my flight to England, because all of my courses are long distance. Yay! And while I'm not a fan of my course on Trade Publishing, I really enjoy my editing course thus far. Editing is very, very logical, which suits me, but you're working with writing and people's lovely and creative ideas, which is fabulous. Things finally seem a bit on track.

[floridaellen]

I'm so proud of you for the driving thing especially!

I agree - driving is scary. I never thought that when I lived in the boondocks of New Jersey haha but when I moved to Florida with its highways and million lights and jerk drivers, I think it's a little scarier.

[greensweatergirl]

floridaellen -

Thanks for your kind comment.

I'm the same as you. Out in the suburbia of Ottawa where I live I feel fairly confident driving, but put me downtown and I become a nervous wreck. Ottawa is right on the border with Quebec too, where the drinking age is lower than here, and if you get near the border at night on a weekend (the exact time you want to go out somewhere) you're surrounded by people doing the stupidest things to make it to the liquor stores on time. Scary!!!