Getting Married for the Money?

[Dziubka]

I guess I'm posting this to make up my mind, but also to hear some outside opinions on this.

My boyfriend's moving to Germany in April, to do a semestral German course and then start his Master's We might even be able to live together for half a year, if everything goes well.
Right now he's still living at home and his parents support him. He's going to try to get a job when he moves here, but his parents are probably still going to have to pay for most things, especially in the beginning. They're not poor, but I don't think they realise how expensive life is in Germany compared to Poland.
The thing is, if we got married, he'd be eligible for financial assistance from the German government. It's a system that based on your parents' income gives you a certain amount each month, half of which is a scholarship and half of which is an interest free loan. I know that the idea of a loan, even an interest-free one, is sort of scary (at least to my boyfriend), but it would make things a lot easier. To give you an idea, we're talking about € 400-500 a month, that makes €200 - 250 pure scholarship.

Now I don't have a very romantic view on marriage, I see it from a rather pragmatic point of view. And that view is that even if we ended up having to pay for a divorce in the end, we'd have a zero-sum game. We'd just go to the courthouse and get it over and done with and have the ceremony and party on the date we originally planned. We wouldn't get rings and I probably wouldn't refer to him as "my husband" and we could keep our last names for the time being. In Germany, if you keep your last names when getting married, you can change them to one of your family names up to 5 years after getting married.

I talked it through with my mum, who was very supportive. She recently got married for financial reasons, too It runs in the family.


Does this seem like a reasonable idea to other people, too or am I just being silly?

[snow_girl]

I don't think divorce is that easy even if both of you don't care what the other gets out of it. I'd say that if you both had planned to get married in the future then speeding it ahead to help him out would make sense, but you don't really come across as wanting to be married. Not calling him your husband, no rings etc. I think that if you are going to do it, then make sure you want him to be your husband, marriage after all should be 'till death do you part'

[Sierra]

Marriage isn't something to be taken lightly no matter the reason for doing it. If you and your partner aren't sure you WANT to be married (you said he was scared) don't do it. 200E a month IS NOT worth the burden and pain that comes with getting a divorce. Now I don't live in Germany and I don't know how family law works there but I DO work in family law in the US, getting a divorce is costly and time consuming. It's not something you want to deal with. And to be completely honest, I would say that you REALLY don't know how anyone will act in a divorce until you're in that situation. Just because things are roses and butterflies now, if you would have to file for divorce I can almost promise you it would not be roses and butterflies anymore.

Furthermore, it's not up to you to worry about his parents who are supporting him. My mother will be supporting me when I go back to school so I don't have to take out a loan and I'm blessed because of it. If his parents have said they are going to support him, let them support him. Somehow I REALLY DOUBT that they would say that they would support him without understanding or knowing the cost of living in Germany. I know my mom did a ton of research on how much it would cost to support me after I've moved.

I guess what I'm saying is this. He's already coming to Germany, his parents have agreed to support him. I REALLY understand being worried and wanting to 'fix' things so they are easier, I'm that kind of person too, but honey, the burden doesn't have to fall on you, especially because it seems like there isn't a burden here at all. Why not cross the bridge about getting married for financial reasons when you get there - as in, when you know if he will or won't need the money?

[lucybelle]

My mom and her husband got married so he could save money on taxes. But they're old.

I don't know, I'm kind of on the fence about this one. On one side, I'm all about convenience marriages. On the other, I see the point Sierra is making. I think perhaps you should read more about it. I mean you say his parents are well off, would he even get financial aid in Germany if his parents have so much money? Maybe this would be a good time for him to learn to live on less, like you said before he always has gotten what he's wanted. This decision isn't one to be made lightly. And if I were the one getting married for convenience, I'd want a damn party anyways!

My post didn't help at all... but best of luck anyways!!!

[maja]

well, I love the idea of marriage simply for love and I will want to marry for that, but come to think of it you guys do love each other, even if you do marry for the money, it is still not like your relationship is based on financial reasons.

BAFög is a great German institution and if it helps you guys and you are eligible to receive then by all means do, that's what the government created it for. Also being married you will have fiscal advantages...living expenses are high at the moment, don't be shy to try and save money!!
And maybe you will enjoy calling him your husband at some point

[Kiara]

Hi Dziubka, I read your ideas about marriage on Engel's thread before, so I'm not surprised about this thread. Also, for Sierra, I think her SO is scared about the idea of having a loan, more than the wedding! In any case, I think 250€/month is not a good reason to push on the decision to get married. My opinion is that it's an important decision which should come together with the ability to become a family (means being adults, able to sustain yourself, and kids (and the dog!)). In Berlin I saw several posts about student jobs which pay 10€/h. It looks a lot to me! My SO's brothers have weekend jobs in order to earn some more money and do not have to depend completely on parents. I think Olek could do it too. It wouldn't be too many hours per week, and it would be an option.
You can still get married next year, when you will be back to Germany again. You will have "lost" 2500€ maybe, but you will be able to live together as a married couple!

[kteire]

I have never considered marrying for anything other than love and commitment, so honestly I don't like the idea of marrying to gain money or visas. I guess if you feel like you're ready for it, it's your own choice, but I am a bit weird when it comes to using things like that to take advantage of government loans. How much will his parents still be supporting him? And could he work or do a TAship to cover costs? I worry about the honesty of it. I kind of got screwed out of government loans during my undergrad because of people doing things like that, and I don't think it's fair unless you'd actually be marrying and supporting each other without his parental support.

[milaya]

Okaaaaay...
So I will be completely honest here, back when my SO and I married we also thought we were doing it for financial reasons. When I say thought, I mean his work company promised us to cover all his flight ticket expenses for his trips to see me if we got married, they took it back later on - so we didn't have any financial gain when it came to our marriage. We don't regret we got married though.

I really think we're alike at a lot of points. I as well don't have romantic views on marriage. I knew we would marry around two years later any way because I needed the visa. To me marriage is mostly a bunch of paperwork (not just the ones you fill out in the marriage process, but future aspects as well - like visa, financial things etc.) and I do not feel bad for seeing marriage like that.
I love my SO more than anything in the world and I'm happy I married him - but for my marriage doesn't mean a higher prove of love or something like that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that I don't see it as an awful thing to get married for money. But, if you do get married - why the whole "ignoring" it? If you do marry, you might as well call each other husband and wife XD Of course there's a lot of people who doesn't change their name, so that's not needed. Rings... well, that's up to you. I guess I was a bit sentimental about that aspect so I didn't want to pass that up.

The most important thing is that you've really thought it through. Considered the positive and negative aspects.

[Dziubka]

I'm already in bed and writing from my phone(on which I dont have an English dictiomaty, I just wanted to thank you all for your answers (even and especially the ones saying "dont do it").
I've just talked about it with my boyfriend and I promise I'm going to answer in detail tommorrow.
Sierra made some good points and part of why I'm even considering this option are two reasons:
1. I struggelled really bad financially in my first year of uni. It was a very hard time for me and if I can do anything to prevent my boyfriend from saying to go through the same, I'd be more than willing to do that.
2. I guess I feel sort of guilty towards his mum. Not only am I taking away her son, but she'll also have to shed out €600/month for it. I know she doesn't think of it like that, but I can't help seeing it that way. It's not fair to her.
I'll explain some of the other things tomorrow.

[digitalfever]

I think I'm going to hold my answer until there is more information because from what I get is that there doesn’t seem to be any financial gain here. This is in essence like getting married for a credit card or a line of credit. It doesn’t seem logical.

[Dziubka]

I'm up early because I have very ambitious plans for this week
So here we go, some more answers.
A lot of this might be because of me over-worrying about things that could possibly happen (him not finding a good job or struggling with money), but I can't help doing that and in any case, I like to prepare for the worst, so I know what to do if it comes to it and am positively surprised and with some extra spending money, if it doesn't

First of all my view on my marriage, you don't have to agree with it, but that's how I see it. I don't really understand getting married for love. I do a lot of things for love, like visiting my boyfriend, sending him cute cards, supporting him, ... but if there what does signing a contract have to do with love? It's not going to change how I feel for him or make us love each other more. I wouldn't get married to someone I didn't love, but I wouldn't get married just because I love someone either. If there was no financial or other gains (making it easier to see each other in the hospital, etc) I wouldn't do it. S Getting married in the courthouse is a legal contract for me, nothing less and nothing more. I'm positive I want to stay with my boyfriend for a really long time, so I'm willing to sign that contract with him. I love him, which is why I want to stay with him, but not necessarily why I want to marry him.

Why are we don't doing the real thing? Rings and calling each other husband and wife?
Because we have an epic wedding planned for 2015. I may not have a romantic view of marriage, but I love my boyfriend and I think if there ever was a reason for an epic party, then the one that my boyfriend and I found each other and are starting our 'adulthood' and a family together. We're not in a situation to have the wedding we want right now (nor do I think it's the right time), though. I want to take away as little meaning from the original wedding as possible. So that's why I would only get formally married now and leave everything else to its appropriate time.

Like I said in my last post, my first year in uni was very hard. At first I had a hard time finding a job, because of my unflexible hours, so the one I got was badly paid and gave me too little hours, but at inconvenient times. I feel like I missed out on a lot of experiences because I either didn't have the money or time for them.
It's not going to be easier for my boyfriend, because he's going to have a lot of classes as well and he as of now he doesn't speak German that well to get a good job. He could probably get something at McD's or working in a factory at night, but those are not really dreams (while getting married *is* our dream, just not right now. Still more of a dream than night shifts at McD's!). As a foreigner, a Polish one at that who doesn't speak the language very well and doesn't have any work experience, getting a job won't be a cake.

I also already mentioned that, I feel guilty towards his mum. If it wasn't for me, my boyfriend would never have considered moving to an expensive, foreign country. I'm taking him away from his mum and then she'll have to pay a lot of money for that on top of it? His parents do make quite a lot of money for Polish standards, which is lower average for German standards (if that). I know his mum sees it as a chance for him and an investition (I don't mean to make it sound that 'cold' but you get what I mean) and she likes me a lot and isn't going to be reproachful about him moving away, but I can't help feeling that it's me putting a burden on her. I know I wouldn't want my mum to spend her hard earned money on me and hold back on things she'd like to get for herself.

kteire, obviously, if he got the financial assistance, his parents wouldn't have to support him anymore, that's the whole point of it. We're not doing any skewy things or cheating the government. Actually in this case I think it would be highly unethical to do that, because there are people (me!) who really really need that assistance and could never go to uni without it. If we got married, he'd be eligible for it, and we'd be married with all due consequences. It's not like I'm marrying some random stranger off the street to get money. It's a way to help the man I love through university.

digitalfever, I think I wrote that in my orginal post: It's governmental assistance for students from 'poor' families. Half of it is a loan (but interest free, you only pay exactly what they have you) and half of it is a scholarship. So it's not like getting a credit. It's still a loan and, Kiara is right, my boyfriend's sort of scared of that and it's the only thing his mum had as a con when he discussed it with her. In our part of Europe taking out a credit for university is, thankfully, not the norm, so it's a bit of a scary thought for some people. I had no choice but knowing I will be 10k in debt once I'm out of university doesn't exactly give me happy dreams either. I try not to think about it, though.


*edit:
We talked about it some more last night. My boyfriend's sort of busy right now (he has his last undergrad exam on Friday! Think of him, everyone!), so he doesn't have time to think it through completely. We're not doing anything on the spur of the moment, but we're keeping this as an option, in case things become difficult for him financially. But keep your answers coming

[Tooki]

I have contemplated a similar situation. My girl is an EU citizen and I'm not. We have realised that if I am to move to be close to her, it is easiest if we are married. (Residency Visas are much easier to obtain if we are married, we can live anywhere in the EU and I would automatically get a work permit). We have spoken about this and we have considered becoming legally married as you want to do; minus the ceremony and formalities. On the other hand, this would also work if she were to move to Australia whilst I am still studying.

I would REALLY think about it before you do it. I can definitely emote to your situation. If you truly love him and would marry him 100%, then go for it.

[Malaga]

Why would you feel guilty because he's coming to Germany to study? I mean I understand the feeling, but it's irrational. Think about it. It's not like he's going to a backwards area with no education or career prospects. In that case your feeling of guilt would be more understandable, although still irrational. But by coming to Germany he's going to broaden his prospects by getting international experience, probably of better quality than what he can get at home. He's moving up, even if his living standard might drop for a while. But while he's a student, that's considered investment in his future. Sure it's going to be tough making ends meet for a couple of years, but he's supposedly going to have a better future because of it. What better time than now? No kids, no loans, no mortgages, he's responsible only for himself. If you feel guilty about this, you might as well feel guilty that he has to spend money on travelling to see you, and the whole LDR thing. It doesn't make sense, does it?

It is normal for families to support their kids while they're studying - it's what family is there for. My brother went to college to the US and the rest of the family needed to support him. You can imagine costs of living there, especially as he needed a car etc. Even though we didn't have much money to begin with, we managed to do it for 6 years. He just graduated from MBA last year. Money was a bit tight but we all managed to live a decent life and we knew it was the best way we could've spent that money. Sure my brother felt guilty because of it, but he channelled it into studying hard and being a top student. On account of that, he got a good job in Canada within 2 months from graduation, despite being a foreigner and needing a work permit.

Trust his family that they know what they're getting into and if they think they can manage it, trust their decision. In the eyes of his mother, there's nothing better her money could be spent on. And it's her money and her decision. So neither of you two should feel guilty about it. Just work hard and make the best of it.

I understand your view on marriage, but in the eyes of the society and law it is often more complicated than it is for you personally and you just have to count on that. Marriage is complicated for people even when it's 'strictly business', it just is.

I'm all for working the system in any way you can to be together. But if guilt is your main motive, then please think about it. It's not good for your relationship in the long run and it's bound to affect it.

[floridaellen]

I don't really see the problem with it. If your goal is to get married anyway, why not do the legal portion now? It's just speeding up the eventual. As long as you look at as an actual marriage and still nurture it and grow together, why not?

I guess I just don't care as much about the legal part. I'm more concerned about the religious aspect.

[Sierra]

I'll be honest, I commend you for being a problem solver, but I still stand by what I said originally. You say you feel guilty for taking your boyfriend away from his mother, well let his family provide for him then. I'm going to say this again, YOU are not in charge of taking care of his family.

I think you need to cross this bridge when you come to it and you're not there yet. You don't know if it is a burden on his family to support him, nor do you know that he won't be able to find work and you won't know this until he's there. Once he's there, if it is a problem, and you need 250E a month (still NOT a lot of money), then see about getting married, but right now I think you're putting the cart way before the horse.

To me, it doesn't matter what your feelings are towards getting married, I just don't think 250E a month is worth the risk of getting divorced down the line, I also don't really understand why 250E a month would make that much of a difference or why his parents couldn't support him with such a menial sum of money if they are willing to provide for him.

Give it a chance to work out before you rush off to get married. Regardless of your feelings towards marriage, legal contract or not, it's a big deal. Legal contracts ARE a big deal.