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    lies


    As I just realized my husband has directly lied to me, I wanted to ask you how you deal with that. I know it's easier to lie about what you're doing in a LDR, but considering how I found out about his most recent lie (we've been CD again since 2 weeks), I could have done that just via internet (website of a club), too. In the end, lies usually catch up with you, no matter where you or your SO are.

    Here's the story, but feel free to skip it and just answer the questions at the end:

    When I saw pictures of my husband talking to other women in a club two weeks ago, I freaked out because I didn't know that he talks to/flirts with women when he goes out. To a certain extent, I'm giving him the benefit of doubt, since I didn't see any pictures of him kissing etc. He apologized and said it won't happen again, but he explained to me that he didn't tell me because I get upset so easily (which is true, I have trust issues) and he didn't want to hurt me. Up to a point, I understand and I believe him. I went out the past two weekends, too (only for fairness' sake, as I usually don't club) and discovered that it is indeed pretty easy to start a conversation with a complete stranger in a club (even without actually looking for a hook-up.)
    However, my hb's new motto seems to be "not telling something is not lying" (he actually told me that he believes that, as in "what you don't know won't hurt you"). *sigh*

    Another time, I saw pictures of the weekend his family was visiting him in May (when I was still abroad.) I had seen them before but hadn't realized that, in them, he was dressed for going out. I was surprised that, even on a weekend when his sister and niece and nephew are visiting, he would go clubbing. I don't think I asked him at the time if he went out that particular weekend, because I just naturally assumed that he wouldn't when his family was there. He didn't tell me, but I didn't ask either - so no lie, right?

    There have been a few other things that could be lies but that I can't prove, so I'll have to disregard those.

    Anyway, when I asked him about the pictures two weeks ago, he said he wouldn't go to that particular club anymore anyway, because he and his friend had been banned for some reason (he said he didn't know why, the bouncer was just being a jerk). I didn't believe that for a minute and asked him to go there with me to prove it. He refused, saying he didn't need to prove anything, wouldn't go clubbing with me (generally) and I could go on my own if I wanted to. (Also, I guess, that wouldn't really have served as proof, anyway, since depending on who's the bouncer that night, they might let him in again, I think - correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have much of an idea about clubbing.)

    Before he went out yesterday, I asked him where he and his friend are going and he told me a particular area of the city. Just minutes ago, I saw pictures of him in the same club (that he is allegedly banned from, completely different part of town) again - taken yesterday. I did ask him where they went, he lied. (when he told me about the evening, he said his friend danced with a girl - I replied "oh, so you went to a disco (not a bar w/o dancefloor, as he'd said)?'" and he was like "no, they danced right there in the bar") He said he was banned - probably a lie, too. The thing is: I have no idea why he lied about things like that. The only plausible answer I can come up with is that he is meeting someone particular there and wants to avoid me going there, too, or even thinking he was there again (which, considering that they take pictures every night, is pretty stupid of him...)

    So, what do you do in a situation like this? There was a lie, there is proof. It's not a huge lie (not as huge as saying he never kissed anyone and then I see a picture of him kissing someone), but it's there. Do you address it or keep the knowledge to yourself and use it to find out more?
    Actually, I'm typing this to keep myself from asking him, because I do intend to maybe go there next weekend and find out why he wants me to think he doesn't go there anymore.

    What would you do? Or what have you done when you found out your SO had lied to you? Do you believe in a 100% honesty policy or rather in "what they don't know won't hurt them"? Do you think someone who tells white lies necessarily lies about bigger issues, too?

    #2
    What would you do?
    I am not exactly sure what I would do in your situation to be honest, but my initial reaction is that I would go investigate what he is doing without him knowing. For instance, I might go to that bar and ask about him, or even possibly follow him and see what he is doing. That sort of suggests that you do not trust him, but his behavior is suspicious and I would want to know why he is lying. My mom has had to do this before to my grandfather who lies all of the time, and she found out some pretty crazy things O_o

    Or what have you done when you found out your SO had lied to you?
    In one instance I started yelling at him right away because I will not tolerate being lied to like that. It was so obvious that he was lying, and that was what hurt me the most. Mainly, I believe he lies when he knows I will get upset about it, but when I find out I am even more upset. It rarely ever happens, but I usually turn it into a fight, which we end up having to resolve the underlying issue of why he lied in the first place. There are some lies I would never tolerate, but his were not too bad.

    Do you believe in a 100% honesty policy or rather in "what they don't know won't hurt them"?
    I think it depends on the situation. In most cases, I would say 100% honesty, but if someone asks you if they look so fat that they look pregnant, I think you should always say no, even if they do. That is a bad analogy, but I have had that happen before and told the truth....which was not the right thing to do. But there are VERY few cases that I say 100% honesty is not the way to go.

    Do you think someone who tells white lies necessarily lies about bigger issues, too?
    It just depends I guess. I have told white lies before, but I would like to think that I would not be able to lie about big things because they are more important. However, someone who makes white lies will probably be more likely to lie about bigger issues than someone who never lies.

    Comment


      #3
      What would you do? - I still can't understand why he keeps going to these clubs and everything when he knows it is annoying/upsetting to you. But, I think if I found proof of a lie, I would hold off on confrontation, and find a second lie's proof. Perhaps confronting him now would cause him to stop putting up pictures, or he would try harder to hide his lies. So I would wait and see if there is any more proof of his lies.
      Honesty policy- I try to not hide anything from Michelle. I really think that lies of omission are just as bad as outright lies. Granted, you might forget to mention something, and that is understandable. But, when you ask, "Where are you going?" and he just says, "Somewhere." but he really knows where he is going, he is totally lying. That is a hurtful lie. No good.
      White Lies, Big Lies- No, people who give little white lies don't always lie about big things. I think white lies are saying that you like a new shirt, or you like their haircut even when you think it is hideous. White lies are a whole different bread than big lies, because big lies are made to hurt someone. White lies are made to protect someone.

      I don't know what I would do with your situation, lunamea. Confront him now and he could realize he is doing you wrong and change his ways. Or, he could just hide his activities better. Wait to confront him and find more proof of lies, and you can dictate the path of your relationship together. Or, he could completely give up. What does your gut/instict tell you? I understand you have trust issues, but he is not helping your trust.

      Comment


        #4
        What would you do? - Well, I do keep things from my SO just as he's kept things from me, but there's a line. Your hubby crossed it. Me, being the paranoid thing I am, I'd be snooping around the hangouts or asking his friends/whoever he goes regularly with. You have a right to know why he's lying and avoiding proving what he says is the truth. Most of the time I've found if people say they don't have to prove they're not lying to you, they are. But most likely I'd get in his face about it since it's bothersome.

        Or what have you done when you found out your SO had lied to you? - The first time I kinda let it go even though it ticked me off to no end. I have trust issues and when I'm lied to I tend to not trust that person again for a while. I let him have it in a nicer way when I found out he took up smoking only because I figured it was because of his job despite the weak excuse I was given. Generally though I'd fuss and fume and hold a grudge.

        Do you believe in a 100% honesty policy or rather in "what they don't know won't hurt them"? - Eh... I can sound hypocritical with this considering another thread I made about not telling my problems. But to me, not expressing I'm depressed or upset over something I know I'm blowing out of the water is different than withholding info about where I've been and what I did there. It's one thing that they find out you were sad yesterday. It's another when they find out you lied about where you were and someone took pictures. Honesty is a valuable thing in a relationship, but to me it needs to be applied more heavily in certain areas than others. Your case being one.

        Do you think someone who tells white lies necessarily lies about bigger issues, too? - Depends on the person and the lie. Some people are pathological liars and don't know it/can't control it and some just don't trust others enough to indulge or don't care. Sometimes it's better to lie about the bigger issues or not mention them at all but that's again on a case to case basis.

        All my flags have gone up reading that, but again that may not be saying much since I'm highly paranoid and naturally wary/distrustful. Still, you need to find some way to curb it or stop it entirely not because you want to be controlling and put a damper on his 'freedom' but because he's basically lost the privilege by refusing to show you nothing's going on.

        Comment


          #5
          What would you do?
          I don't know to be honest.
          I would be really really hurt, since i'm a very sensitive person.
          But i can't really say what i would do, maybe as bluestars says, spy on him.

          Or what have you done when you found out your SO had lied to you?
          She only lied about her age, when we met. But after that she's been totally honest with me, which i appreciate.

          Do you believe in a 100% honesty policy or rather in "what they don't know won't hurt them"?
          I believe in a 100% honesty policy.
          Sure the other one is very tempting, but when they found out they will still be hurt that you didn't tell it.

          Do you think someone who tells white lies necessarily lies about bigger issues, too?
          It's a case to case situation really.
          As i can only have my SO to compare to i would say no.
          But personally i don't think lies are good to start with in the beginning, even if they have a good intent.
          Lies could then become the comfortable way out, like skipping school which i realized :/

          Comment


            #6
            What would you do?
            I'm very forthright, if there's something on my mind I don't keep it to myself for long. I'd be very plain "These are the facts. Why did you lie & don't do it again"

            Or what have you done when you found out your SO had lied to you?
            I usually put it in a letter. That way I get all my possible thoughts out without them being scrambled and inturupted. Re-reading it also helps me determine if I'm over reacting. But even with the smallest fib, I call Obi on it right away. I've often said from him "All I want from you is complete honesty and good personal hygene."

            Do you believe in a 100% honesty policy or rather in "what they don't know won't hurt them"?
            Honesty all the way. There can be a problem with this though. Growing up we had the rule that if we told Mum we'd done something wrong before she found out from someone else we could avoid (or greatly reduce) punishment, and I've carried that forward into this relationship. So I try very hard not to let my anger turn into hurtful comments, abuse or spiteful games. If I have to expect him to be man enough to confess, he gets the privelage of me being man enough to listen calmly.

            Do you think someone who tells white lies necessarily lies about bigger issues, too?
            Mmm usually. Some people just lie for the sake of it, they don't seem to be able to help themselves. But, if they'll lie to me about something trivial, why wouldn't they lie about something serious?
            Happily married to the little Canadian boy I never thought I'd meet in person

            Comment


              #7
              I would confront him straight away and tell him if he goes to that club again the marriage is over because

              A) he continuously places clubbing ahead of spending time with you
              B) it is SO obvious he is trying to hide something from you and the only thing that comes to mind based on your posts is that he's meeting another woman.

              Not knowing is what would kill me so I'd just ask him bluntly if he's seeing someone else.


              Comment


                #8
                I think the reason some don't ask straight away it's because they don't really want to find out/get hurt if the truth is, in fact, that the SOs are seeing someone else. But it shouldn't justify the right to know before you actually see it being done.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Yei&Jon View Post
                  I think the reason some don't ask straight away it's because they don't really want to find out/get hurt if the truth is, in fact, that the SOs are seeing someone else. But it shouldn't justify the right to know before you actually see it being done.
                  No one wants to believe they're being cheated on or lied to, naturally. We want to believe that our SO is as faithful as we are and that they do love us. Because really, there's no love if you have a piece on the side, even if it's just for sex. Love entails respect and that's not respecting them. And I'm not sure what you mean by your last statement, maybe I'm reading it wrong. Do you mean they can't press the issue until they've seen the cheating firsthand? Even if it's false and you end up hurting their feelings because of it, you still have a right to investigate or get the truth somehow. Better you find out because you wanted to and not wait for it to slip out from somewhere else.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LadyMarchHare View Post
                    No one wants to believe they're being cheated on or lied to, naturally. We want to believe that our SO is as faithful as we are and that they do love us. Because really, there's no love if you have a piece on the side, even if it's just for sex. Love entails respect and that's not respecting them. And I'm not sure what you mean by your last statement, maybe I'm reading it wrong. Do you mean they can't press the issue until they've seen the cheating firsthand? Even if it's false and you end up hurting their feelings because of it, you still have a right to investigate or get the truth somehow. Better you find out because you wanted to and not wait for it to slip out from somewhere else.
                    o.o I wasn't trying to disagree in what's being discussed here. Maybe I worded it wrong. What I meant was exactly what you wrote in the first two sentences.
                    About my second statement, I meant that the one lying doesn't have the right to keep lying to the person they're with and should just come clean.

                    I apologize for the misunderstanding.

                    Comment


                      #11

                      Thanks for all your replies!

                      I couldn't help but talk to him about it. He already knew something was wrong because he'd heard me crying at night yesterday and I was distant when he got back from work. He asked me what was wrong but I refused to tell him. It was only after I told him that there's an event at my uni that I will go to in the evening and he replied "I don't believe you, you're lying." (when I went out by myself the past two weekends, I flirted with a guy, too, and told my hb about him, that's why he reacted that way) that I said "I'm not the one who's lying here." He started grinning and asked what I had found out and I was like "well you should know, or are there so many lies you don't know which one I uncovered?" Anyway, I got ready to go to uni (showered, ate only a little) and he kept accusing me and going "tell me if you're meeting someone" etc. Right before I left, my friend called and he wanted to see the caller ID and I was like "no." She was just calling to see how I was but he didn't stop talking to me, so I told her to say 'hi' to my hb and gave him the phone. He looked at the caller ID and after I'd finished talking to her he was like "she's calling a hell of a lot these days."

                      He called me once when I was already on my way back from uni to ask where the cat food was and when I got back, he was all like "it took you a long time to get back home" and "you look happy, something is up" bla bla bla again. I almost had to laugh because he reminded me so much of myself in the past - I'd accused him like that quite often without having proof and would say stupid things like that, too. He said he was just teasing me and I replied that that's not my idea of fun.

                      He kept pressing what I had found out until I gave him a clue and it finally dawned on him. As I had expected, he again said he had to lie about some things because I couldn't deal with hearing the truth. He said I wouldn't have believed what he had said about having got banned if he had told me he'd gone there again. Also, he had danced with women and didn't want me to know that either (at one point, he'd said that he doesn't dance, then he said he did dance, but not close and usually mostly with his buddies.) He still kinda sticks to his last version, saying that he doesn't ask women to dance but that it just happens when he's on the dance floor. The main reason he lied about the club was that he didn't want me showing up when he was there with his friend, though, because he feared I would make a scene if I saw him talking to a woman. He also said he didn't come to the club where I was on purpose because he might have freaked out if he saw me with the other guy, too.
                      I told him that I had changed and that I don't freak out about things anymore and that it would still have been better if he had told me hurtful things straight away instead of having to find out by myself. I also said I don't appreciate him telling the truth piecemeal and changing his stories slightly every time. I wanted to make him promise "no lies anymore" but he said he couldn't tell me everything because I would go crazy and that all I had to know was that he never slept with anyone and doesn't want to, either.


                      Originally posted by Tanja View Post

                      Not knowing is what would kill me so I'd just ask him bluntly if he's seeing someone else.
                      I have asked him that, numerous times. He keeps saying there is not and never has been anyone else and that he never did anything but talk/flirt and dance a little. Considering how he put it, he's doing it all for the ego-boost. He said he'd turned down some advances and when I asked him why he didn't go through with it, he just said "because I'm married." Well, lately, he hasn't really behaved like he's married.

                      I don't know. At the moment, there's so many things wrong with us that I don't know where we should start fixing things. He did admit that he clubs a lot lately, but said that's how it was going to stay for the time being. He basically said I'd locked him up long enough and he just wants to do what he wants to do for a while now. I asked him to make up his mind and decide fast, but he said he couldn't decide about us like that, we just had to wait and see if we work out or not.
                      What's killing me is that I know he is not sure if we should stay together. A few months ago, when I was still abroad, we would always videochat while he was getting ready to go out and before he left, he would tell me he loved me and not to worry because he only wanted to be with me. It was fairly easy back then to believe he wouldn't cheat on me, but now...

                      Giving him an ultimatum won't work at all and also I think it's the wrong thing to do. I've learnt over the past months (I wish I'd learnt it earlier) that I cannot and should not change him. I either have to accept him or leave. A friend of mine would always club and get drunk on weekends, too, but then she met her new bf and he (having trust issues from having gotten cheated on in a previous relationship) made her stop clubbing altogether. She's not going out anymore and he also won't allow her to go on a trip with her friends for the weekend etc. That's just not the kind of relationship I want. I can't think of a single thing that I didn't do because my hb minded. I think he never "forbade" me to do anything, even if he wasn't totally okay with it.
                      And then I think of the relationships where it works that people go out separately, talk/flirt with others and still stay faithful and come home to their SO...

                      I've also realized that I can't make him love me or want to spend time with me. I want him to want to spend time with me, not to grudgingly do it because I give him an ultimatum/nag. I've done that in the past too much, which is probably why we are where we are now and he won't compromise anymore at all. The ideal way this would go down is that he realizes again that he likes spending time with me and cuts back on the clubbing a little and treats me like his wife again. If this doesn't work, I hope he realizes fast that he'd rather live by himself and take appropriate steps.
                      Last edited by lunamea; June 21, 2010, 06:55 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What got me the most was when you said that he couldn't stop lying because you'd freak out too much. Then why the fuck is he doing it!? He knew you had trust issue before you two got married, right? Then he must've been aware of what he was getting himself into. If he wants to do the things he's doing, he needs to be easing into it and slowly making you comfortable and trust him, not just forcing it and making you deal with it. There is a way to compromise this with both of you being happy. I'm not even sure where I'm going here, so I'll move on to my next point.

                        I honestly think you two really need marital counseling. There's so much unhappiness here that neither of you know how to deal with, and with some professional help, I feel your marriage can be saved. It's so easy for many of us to say "leave him", but this is a marriage. A legal and lifelong commitment that needs to be taken very seriously. I believe that unless there are certain circumstances like cheating and abuse, all forms of help need to be exhausted before calling it quits. Please seek some help for your marriage if you haven't already. If one or both of you doesn't want to seek help, then that would be different and divorce or separation might be best. Like you said, you can't force someone to love you or to work on a marriage. I wish you the best.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It's been my experience, which is to say my observation from relationships friends have been in, that the one who accuses the other of cheating is usually the one cheating themselves. They want to make you the bad guy. And if that's his way of teasing, then he needs to quit it. It's not funny and can unintentionally leave you with more mental upsets than before.

                          You talk about not wanting to put an ultimatum on him, but it seems to me like he's putting one on you. You have to deal with his behavior because it's what he wants and it's your fault he has to act like he's 18. You have nothing to do with it. Exactly what is the use of boosting his ego when he's committed to you? People want to know they're still desired at certain ages, but to me at that point the only person you should worry about desiring you is your spouse, not some sweaty drunk chick in a club. Point being he's disrespecting you as a person and as his wife. There's a line between wanting freedom and being a jerk. Like Darth_Taco said, marriage counseling is a good idea. If he opposes it because "nothing's wrong", I suggest staying elsewhere for a while to take a breather. Hopefully that time would let him realize if he truly misses you or not and things can go from there.

                          I'm sorry, but he's acting like a child. Just because you had problems with dealing with certain issues doesn't mean he forever holds the right to tell lies, half-truths, and change his story every 5 seconds.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Trust is hugely important to me, as with anyone. So is privacy. I don't deal with lies well. But, I also find it hard to give up on something when there's not a way for me to be 100% sure that that trust has been broken. Sometimes trust and privacy clash a bit. But, when I've been lied to, I don't care as much for the liar's privacy.

                            I had an ex who lied to me fairly often. It caused me plenty of doubts about him and our relationship, understandably, and plenty of insecurities. His lies were always my fault, and I bought in to that for a while. He was manipulative in ways similar to your husband, and kept the upper hand (in a bad way) for as long as he could by explaining everything away. I'm pretty stubborn and don't give up on things easily, so I needed proof that he was lying that he couldn't explain away in ways that left me doubting myself before I left the relationship.

                            At one point, there was a substantial amount of money missing from our bank account. Shortly after, while doing laundry, I found a receipt for a similar amount of money, for a female co-worker's rent. He has explanations for everything. He'd dropped off her rent check for her. Had an excuse about the missing money. And, said he didn't tell me beforehand about the money because he knew I'd flip out. He made me feel like I was the one being unreasonable. But, the doubts about his integrity remained.

                            My solution was to do my own detective work, so I could find the truth one way or the other. I do value my own privacy and the privacy of others. I don't condone snooping through someone else's life. But, I felt justified because he was lying to me, and I deserved the truth. Had I found that I was wrong- great! I'd do my best to apologize, and regain his trust. But, if I found out that he wasn't being faithful, and had proof that he couldn't shake me on, then I would be able to leave him- because I wouldn't have been able to if I didn't have absolute proof.

                            After I asked him about the missing money and receipt for his co-worker's rent, he did a much better job of hiding things. I didn't find anything more. But, he was still out a lot. He was still evasive in his answers about where he was, who he was with and what he was doing.

                            I followed him one night. I felt really guilty about it, too. Until I saw him meet up with his co-worker. I stayed calm. Continued to follow. And, when I saw him kiss her, I walked up to him to confront him. I introduced myself to the girl, and asked her for a few minutes with him, and wished her luck with him. He knew he was caught. He knew there was no explaining things away. He knew he no longer had any kind of power over me to manipulate me in any way. And, I had what I needed to move out a few days later without any regrets at all.

                            I hope your story ends differently. And, while he is acting suspiciously, there's no telling what his lies are covering. He's probably enjoying new found freedom, and feeling guilty about it. But, you deserve to know the truth about his lies and his reason for doing so.

                            Don't let him make his lies your fault. That's his choice. There are better ways to handle the situation on his part. Don't let him manipulate you, and make you feel insecure. His actions and lies have caused you to feel the way you do. That's for him to come to terms with and for him to be considerate of. If he continues to lie, it's certainly justified to find the truth your own way. Perhaps a night of observing him at his favorite club will assure you that he's being faithful and doing nothing wrong, and lying for no other reason than to keep you from worrying.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Darth_Taco View Post
                              What got me the most was when you said that he couldn't stop lying because you'd freak out too much. Then why the fuck is he doing it!? He knew you had trust issue before you two got married, right? Then he must've been aware of what he was getting himself into. If he wants to do the things he's doing, he needs to be easing into it and slowly making you comfortable and trust him, not just forcing it and making you deal with it. There is a way to compromise this with both of you being happy. I'm not even sure where I'm going here, so I'll move on to my next point.

                              I honestly think you two really need marital counseling. There's so much unhappiness here that neither of you know how to deal with, and with some professional help, I feel your marriage can be saved. It's so easy for many of us to say "leave him", but this is a marriage. A legal and lifelong commitment that needs to be taken very seriously. I believe that unless there are certain circumstances like cheating and abuse, all forms of help need to be exhausted before calling it quits. Please seek some help for your marriage if you haven't already. If one or both of you doesn't want to seek help, then that would be different and divorce or separation might be best. Like you said, you can't force someone to love you or to work on a marriage. I wish you the best.

                              I'm not sure he knew about my trust issues before we got married, as we got married pretty quickly. That's kinda beside the point, anyway, though, because he didn't club until a year or so ago (this coincided with things getting worse between us.) That's one reason I find it so hard to accept that he is clubbing/flirting with other women... he didn't use to do that. For the first years of our marriage, it was only the two of us and I miss(ed) that greatly, which is why I reacted badly when he started making friends and going out by himself. I don't know what came first, though: our problems and fighting, or his wish to club/meet up with friends a lot. I guess he might have wanted to get away from me more than he actually did enjoy the clubbing and the worse things got between us, the more he wanted to club and the more unloved I felt and the more I nagged etc. Then I left to go abroad and he was a) all by himself, with only his friends for any kind of direct, social contact (I remember the emails he wrote me the first few months, saying how lonely he feels and that he's not sure he can do this LD thing) and b) had all the freedom in the world and (as he says) slowly started enjoying living by himself. So, it's not like I don't see where he's coming from... I knew that it would be a difficult transition to go back to living together after 9 months of LDR. I just hadn't realized how much he has changed in the past couple of months and how much more important his freedom is to him compared to his commitment to me.

                              I've suggested marriage counseling and he doesn't want it... not because he thinks there's nothing wrong, but because he thinks if we can't fix things between the two of us, no stranger will be able to fix them, either. I guess he's also scared the counselor might side with me and he might be put in a situation where things will be asked of him that he doesn't want to do. In his opinion, counseling is forcing things that should come naturally and I can't even totally disagree.



                              Originally posted by LadyMarchHare View Post
                              Exactly what is the use of boosting his ego when he's committed to you? People want to know they're still desired at certain ages, but to me at that point the only person you should worry about desiring you is your spouse, not some sweaty drunk chick in a club. Point being he's disrespecting you as a person and as his wife. There's a line between wanting freedom and being a jerk.
                              Up to some point, I can still see why he's doing it. I went clubbing the past weekends, too, and did I enjoy getting hit on? Yeah, even though I knew it was only sexual and I didn't want anything to come of it. I only realized that my hb has issues with his self-esteem, too, when we were already well into our marriage. He puts up an act a lot (dressing up fancy, joking etc.) so a lot of people who don't know him well actually think he's super-self-confident. It's only when you get to know him better/see him drunk that you realize he's really insecure, too (he just deals with it completely differently from me). He would always say that he is nothing/that he is stupid etc. when he is drunk, he gets angry when he feels people are not listening when he's talking/not taking his advice, he wants to be the center of attention, he is really hurt when you're not laughing at his jokes and it was hard for him not finding any friends at the beginning of our marriage. Plus, I supported us for the first half of our marriage and paid for everything and he had literally no power and no friends. In hindsight, it must have been the ultimate downer on his male self-esteem. Sometimes I think he's even more desperate to be liked/loved than I am. His friends are guys who constantly suck up to him (call all the time, compliment his clothes/work etc.), he buys the most expensive clothes and wants the fanciest car because he wants to show off and be respected. He even told me recently that he thinks I didn't respect him, because I used to criticize a lot of his choices (shaving his head/body, buying designer clothes etc.) and he cited a few cases where I didn't laugh at his jokes almost verbatim! I know that I didn't let him be himself enough in the past and that I must have been a pretty bad control freak (which partly came with "being in charge" of everything on my own) and must have treated him like a kid at times, but I only realized all that recently. He still seeks reassurance from me (asking if I like his clothes, telling me that he did things the way I wanted etc.) and is disappointed when I tell him that, actually, I don't like his shirt that much or that I don't think it's worth 100 bucks. I'm pretty straightforward about stuff like that... if I like something, I will say so, if I don't, I will say so as well. We're not barely dating, we have been married for years and I think I have a right to my opinion and that shouldn't hurt his feelings that much. These may seem like petty issues, but I'm pretty sure they at least play into this mess. I will say that I think he seeks the reassurance I didn't/don't give him (enough of) elsewhere, either in his friends or other women. He's repeatedly told me that I give him the feeling he doesn't do anything right and that I disapprove of everything he's doing.
                              So, yeah, I see this current situation as an ego trip of his... he's successfully turned the tables on me, enjoys finally having the upper hand and is partly playing a power game with my emotions. Right now, I let him have his way, because we're at a point where he won't go for anything else, anyway. I can just hope that he'll come off his trip again...



                              Originally posted by seshei View Post
                              Perhaps a night of observing him at his favorite club will assure you that he's being faithful and doing nothing wrong, and lying for no other reason than to keep you from worrying.
                              I'd really like to do that, but realistically, I can't pull it off. He'll see me (if not immediately, then at some point) and not only will he be royally pissed that I followed him, but he won't behave naturally anymore, which makes the whole thing pointless and counter-productive. I don't really have any good-enough friends (that he doesn't know) that I could send to spy on him, either. The only thing I have right now is checking the photos the club puts up.

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