Trouble in paradise

[Verojoon]

Last night we had a fight that I don't know we can recover from... it all started from something that seemed so small...

In the past my SO has told me a few times that my lifestyle (I have children) is not one he ever wants for himself... we always had big fights even temporary break-ups over it... Until I could see him interact with my family, it's been hard for me to know what to do about it one way or another...

When I left him last spring, one of the major reasons was that after we thought he would finally be able to come visit me, paperwork fell through, I felt at a standstill with a man who can't tell me he wants to be with me forever but also can't let me go... A man who didn't want my lifestyle...

After I left him, I started dating. I saw a few people, and things didn't work out for many reasons, the main one being that I was still in love with him.

I left him about end of March, I guess... At the very beginning of April, I met someone interesting on Facebook. But when he told me I should call him to chat, I bluntly told him I wasn't interested. At then end of April, I met the same guy, but this time on a dating website... after exchanging a few texts, I decided to give him a chance... He was intense. By our second date he said he felt he would die if he didn't get to see me the next day... It was too quick, but somehow, I got caught up in his enthusiasm... and I told myself if I feel like seeing him the next day, why not do it? Why play games and force ourselves to go slow...

Well, my SO and I had stayed in touch... and before I met this guy, we had even gotten a bit flirty... I didn't think I led him on because I continued to say I didn't want a LDR anymore, that I wanted a future etc. And there was nothing in his behavior that made me feel like he had changed...

When he noticed I was responding less to his texts and asked me if I met someone, I told him I had.

He went kind of crazy. He called me and left me dozens of messages on my voice mail, He send me horrible text messages. Said I was a bad person... Sent me right into the other guy's arms by crushing my self-esteem in the same way my ex-husband did. How can someone see the girl he loves get emotionally manipulated the way he saw happen to me, and turn around and do the same thing to her? He told me I didn't know how to love. He basically called me heartless. He emphasized how badly I treated him by leaving him, etc. And he just wouldn't listen to reason. He said he needed to see me one last time. After that he would leave me alone, but he needed to get that closure by seeing me one last time. He knew that because of my responsibility with my children, I wouldn't be able to go until August... He wanted me to break up with my boyfriend (with whom things were going well) and wait 4 months to go see him one last time so I could open up my wounds all over again and he could get closure. It didn't make sense.

Things didn't work out with the new guy. I was texting with SO the night we broke up because I was so drunk and I didn't know who to talk to while I was in that state that wouldn't judge me too harshly... I didn't go back to him. I continued to try to date but I became so sick and tired of trying to meet people. It became hard trying to figure out what I should do and how much I should feel or not feel. I got tired of men thinking that because of my background (French Canadian) I was easy, and having to push them off of me etc. I started thinking more and more about who really loved me.. through it all, he just loved me... But I didn't think I could do the LDR again... Not in our case where there was no light at the end of the tunnel and no way we would ever be able to close the distance. There was no forever.

August was approaching and I needed to get away on my 1 week in summer when I do not have my children... At the time my SO wasn't talking to me... I sent him a text saying: "If I went to Dallas in August, you wouldn't come to see me, right?" And he answered me faster than I could have ever imagined. He said he would always want to see me. We started talking again. I told him after the summer we had, I just wanted to go somewhere I felt safe and loved and just recharge myself because I felt so down from all that had happened. I said we weren't starting our relationship again... but from the time I booked my flight, we had been talking on Skype regularly again and I knew I was lying to myself... I knew I had let myself fall for him all over again... Which wasn't hard to do because despite all the crap, I never stopped loving him.

But I still convinced myself I would be visiting him for a week and then we would part ways... I didn't want a dysfunctional relationship.. I knew we weren't good for each other... we were too hot and cold and drama and sparks and we were toxic for each other... And though the days leading up to us seeing each other again were tame and easy and we were able to talk and communicate, I was conflicted because I truly felt like he had changed and matured and as a result I felt like I was reacting to him in a more mature way...

So I went to see him. It was amazing. Our first night, we went to a club but instead of going right in, we sat on a bench outside first and we talked. We talked openly the way we had only ever been able to do in writing before and it gave me so much hope... By our third night, I couldn't deny what I had felt from the moment we had made the decision for me to go see him again... I had to give us another try. I felt we would be able to relate to each other better. I felt that maybe the relationship wouldn't be only on his terms anymore. I felt like we would be able to overcome anything together with the type of communication we were building...

Still, I didn't know if it would all work out... I thought what happened when I went home would be the true test. The other two times I had visited him, we broke up as soon as I got back home.. He couldn't deal with the distance and he would break away from me at the time I needed him most. This time he actually skyped with me on our first night when I was back home. I felt so grateful. It really seemed like we had turned a new leaf. We had broken through the bad patterns.

The next 2 months were also amazing. Whenever something would happen between us, he didn't push me away. He dealt with the problems.. we talked about them. He even quit smoking during that time, and still didn't completely shut me out (we communicated slightly less because he was dealing with migraines) but he wasn't emotionally backing away from me anymore. If I got upset with him, he found ways to talk to me. We communicated.

He agreed to talk to my sister on Skype. He mentioned me possibly meeting his family on my next visit. He chatted with my kids on Skype... He was nothing shy of amazing...

And then last night happened.

He asked me for help with something. Basically he feels his English needs work still, and he was practicing his listening by listening to a few minutes of some comedy on youtube and trying to write down what the videos says and asked me for my help. I said sure. He said I needed to do it with no cheating and seeing what he did. So I joked saying that he was testing me, not himself. I did it, and worked on it for a while, then after about 20 minutes, I lost a whole paragraph I was writing and got really frustrated, so I texted him saying: "Your little test is annoying! lol" He got upset with me. Actually, he got really upset with me. He said that he was sad and pissed off and felt he could never ask anything from me. I'm always working so hard to try to make him happy that I was shocked at his reaction! I tried to explain my reaction and it seemed like I couldn't get through to him. He was so mad at me and so disappointed at me... and I started getting angry too.

Finally, I apologized, but it wasn't good enough... He said he was sorry too. Sorry he had even asked me for help... He said he now felt like he could never ask anything from me again.

So I asked him if he'd ever asked me for anything before?

He said Yes.

I asked if I had let him down this way before.

He said the biggest he could think of was when he needed me to come visit him and I didn't give a shit.

First I did give a shit. I thought about it long and hard. I really considered it... In the end, I felt that being strong and staying away, I was doing the right thing. I was taking the steps I needed to be in a healthy relationship with someone I could have a future with... But whether this was something I did wrong or not, it's not really what makes me doubt the whole future of our relationship... I just can't be with someone who holds the past over me like that. I can't have this same fight all the time with no resolve... I thought we were over this.. but I should have realized better when he told me he didn't like a certain singer anymore (which was someone I had gone to see in concert with the other guy while SO and I were broken up.)

I don't want something toxic. I want the US from the past 2 months. The US that could talk through things and didn't shove each others mistakes in each other's faces... which, I'm not doing. He hurt me a lot. Before and during our break-up... But we were working on things and they were going so well, I don't feel I need to bring up the past. I have forgiven him... I can move past it... It only comes back to me again when he tries to hurt me with the past...

Do I have a general concern here? It seems like such a small thing to be fighting about... but it is such a big thing at the same time... If we can't deal with this, then why do we even try to be together? Why are we even bothering? I love him. Through everything that has been a constant, but a relationship takes more than love. I thought we had found the balance, but now I'm scared... Am I over-reacting?

[rubydissolution]

I personally don't think you are overreacting. I think he is. What he asked you to do was something very small to you, but apparently it meant a lot to him. However, you tried and appologized when you couldn't complete his task. That really should be enough at this point. It shouldn't spill over into "i can't ask you to do anything". That's more then a little over dramatic and a very immature thing to say. From your story its very obvious that he tried to change, or at least pretended to. If he actually changed, cut him a little slack...he's gonna have slip ups. If he's putting on an act to keep you, then its a pretty convincing act. 2 months of pretending is just impressive.

Have you asked him if he's reconsidered being part of your lifestyle? You said he's been skyping with your kids and that's an awesome thing. But is he willing to be part of your family now, when he wasn't then? I would say if he's still not willing to commit to that then you are unfortunately wasting your time with him. You guys were not together for quite a long time, you are in ur happy happy phase again and its also possible its just winding down again.

You have done a lot of reflection on yourself and your relationship, I think you are strong enough to figure out if this is a relationship worth pursuing. If you think its toxic, it probably is and as the weeks/months pass he may fall into old habits. If you want to stick it out and see, I wouldn't fault you for doing so. But it will hurt that much more if it happens again.

If you find yourself dating again...trust me I understand that frustration. I dated for a few months after me n my ex broke up (btw...it was a month after we broke up. So there is nothing wrong with how long u waited to date again). It was exhausting, keeping track of who I had said what to. Who was a keeper and who to cut loose. I was seriously on my last leg when I met my current bf. He caught me on my last week on match.com. He was a welcome breath of fresh air from the guys I had gone on dates with and talked to. So, there is hope for dating! Ya just gotta push through it.

GL hun.

[Verojoon]

Ruby - Yes, we have discussed the problems with my lifestyle. It seems we both feel it could work... and we had a loose plan in place... We want to wait until he gets a chance to visit me here before we continue with a plan to close the distance... Since he's never been close to any children, he wants to experience my lifestyle before he can say for sure that it would work... Once we experience this, then we can continue trying to figuring things out... though we have many more obstacles... When things are going well, it seems manageable and worth it... but right now, it is all so overwhelming... I don't think right now our relationship is toxic, but it has a definite potential to be...

[Zephii]

I don't think he's trying to hurt you - and I think that might be a key thing maybe you both need to talk about: when shit hits the fan, you still love each other, you don't become enemies and you don't deliberately lash out and try to hurt each other. So, you both maybe need to show each other that better?

I think, with bringing up your past it is more a case of he is still hurt and can't move past it. He's still carrying this pain that he doesn't know how to resolve and he doesn't know who to blame. The thing is, there are going to be times when you both see the same incident from completely different angles, and your experiences of that will lead you to different conclusions. All you can really do about it (to the best of my knowledge anyway) is make an effort to see it from each other's perspectives and apologise - if not for your actions specifically, then for the hurt caused all around and the insecurities that arose from that. It's much harder to hold on to hate if you can understand where the other person is coming from.

I get the feeling that if it wasn't done in text - and he had the whole context surrounding your message - then this would never have turned into a fight in the first place. But I don't think falling off the good communication wagon once nullifies all the progress the two of you have made. Obviously, feelings are still very raw and you both feel vulnerable, but that isn't something that can't be worked through, or even embraced.

[Verojoon]

Zephii - I'm surprised at how much sense your response made! I have done so much thinking and trying to figure things out that I wasn't expecting anything I hadn't already considered or thought about but you brought some really good arguments to the table and all you said rings really true for us and our situation... I'm actually looking forward to approaching the issue again with what you have mentioned as a guide! thank you.

[Zephii]

Awe You're welcome! I hope yous make some more progress, you's have been doing so well really!

[Malaga]

Ruby - Yes, we have discussed the problems with my lifestyle. It seems we both feel it could work... and we had a loose plan in place... We want to wait until he gets a chance to visit me here before we continue with a plan to close the distance... Since he's never been close to any children, he wants to experience my lifestyle before he can say for sure that it would work... Once we experience this, then we can continue trying to figuring things out... though we have many more obstacles... When things are going well, it seems manageable and worth it... but right now, it is all so overwhelming... I don't think right now our relationship is toxic, but it has a definite potential to be...

What about your kids? I'm not sure what you mean by him 'experiencing your lifestyle' but is it really good for your kids to have a guy who isn't even that keen on it test driving them to see whether he'd like to be part of the family or not?

He clearly has anger issues, and a history of going apeshit on you in a possessive rage. Is he getting any help for that? Did he acknowledge his problem and what he did to you? Until you address that, you're just going to ride that emotional rollercoaster with him... and then your kids are going to be a part of it too.

Good luck xx

[Verojoon]

What about your kids? I'm not sure what you mean by him 'experiencing your lifestyle' but is it really good for your kids to have a guy who isn't even that keen on it test driving them to see whether he'd like to be part of the family or not?

He clearly has anger issues, and a history of going apeshit on you in a possessive rage. Is he getting any help for that? Did he acknowledge his problem and what he did to you? Until you address that, you're just going to ride that emotional rollercoaster with him... and then your kids are going to be a part of it too.

Good luck xx

Wow. Your response really made me stop and think. Are things much worst than I am admitting to myself or did I just communicate badly in my original post... I'll have to do some thinking about that, but in the meantime I wanted to answer the things I do have answers for.

My SO is ridiculously true to his word. To the point where he has a difficult time ever promising anyone anything... because nothing in life is set in stone... So, he won't promise me that things will work out for a family life because he can't know. He's very nervous about it. Because of how we handled these issues in the past, it is still a bit awkward of a topic for us... and I don't want to tackle everything at once since we are working on so many things...

I make it sound like our relationship is nothing but work but it really isn't. It's amazing. But, after having had a failed marriage, and having the opportunity that the distance gives to really slow down and work on everything and give ourselves the best fighting chance possible, we have decided to put a lot of preemptive work into the relationship.

Anyways, the thing isn't so much him not being keen on "test-driving" the family life. He is very nervous about it. His main exposure to children is his cousins' kids who he usually sees in larger family settings and who tend to avoid him because he is probably awkward with them or something. He was scared that children just don't like him. This is why the Skyping with my kids is such a huge help, because my kids love him and have been asking him when he comes to visit.

His other concern is with the distance, he doesn't want my children to suffer as much as we do when we have to say good bye. Even if we decide to close the distance, it isn't something we will be doing for about three years due to immigration issues, so it's a long time of long-distance. My children are very close to their grand-mother who they see for a weekend about 6-8 times a year and since it's always been the nature of their relationship, they deal with it pretty well.. I think they would deal the same way with SO being in and out of our lives....

My SO is younger than me, and has a lot less life experience. This is in part due to the country he grew up in, but also in part due to his personality. I think a lot of the changes in our relationship that are for the better has been not only due to us working on things, but simply maturity... He is only 4 years younger than me, but the difference between a 26 year old and a 30 year old was a lot more pronounced than the difference between a 28 year old and a 32 year old...

As far as anger issues, I cannot wrap my head around that... During our break-up, a lot of his issues were somewhat alcohol-related... I had discussed with him several times how drinking when he is upset is not good for him. His reaction to alcohol is always very predictable. If he drinks when he is happy, his mood doesn't change... he remains happy.. we have fun, it's great... but when he drinks when he is upset, it is just bad. I have good news on that front as well... when he quit smoking, he also quit drinking... It's not an official thing, but since he always associated smoking with drinking and he thinks he would have a cigarette if he drinks, he just hasn't been drinking. This has been for about a month and a half now! You mention a possessive rage, and again it is difficult for me to see it that way... (am I blind or did I explain it wrong? who knows!) I have been with possessive men. I have to agree he is possessive in a way... where the thought of me being with someone else while we were broken up was extremely difficult for him to bear... But in other ways, he is so the opposite of possessive... He never questions me on where I've been or who I've spoken to... I feel like he trusts me...

Well, I'm not sure if your grasp of the situation is accurate, but I do appreciate your opinion and it is certainly food for thought. Thank you!

[Malaga]

This was the possessive rage I was talking about... I underlined things that stood out for me.

He went kind of crazy. He called me and left me dozens of messages on my voice mail, He send me horrible text messages. Said I was a bad person... Sent me right into the other guy's arms by crushing my self-esteem in the same way my ex-husband did. How can someone see the girl he loves get emotionally manipulated the way he saw happen to me, and turn around and do the same thing to her? He told me I didn't know how to love. He basically called me heartless. He emphasized how badly I treated him by leaving him, etc. And he just wouldn't listen to reason. He said he needed to see me one last time. After that he would leave me alone, but he needed to get that closure by seeing me one last time. He knew that because of my responsibility with my children, I wouldn't be able to go until August... He wanted me to break up with my boyfriend (with whom things were going well) and wait 4 months to go see him one last time so I could open up my wounds all over again and he could get closure. It didn't make sense.

And as I understood, this was triggered by you dating someone else after you guys broke up. He demanded you break up with the guy you were seeing and come see him instead - rearrange your life for him so he could have closure. He may not be jealous otherwise but this was ridiculously possessive of him.

I'm glad he's working on his drinking issue. You know him best so if you think his anger is linked to alcohol only, then this is a good path.

For the record, I'm not implying you're a bad parent or anything like that. I'm sure you put your children first and think only the best for them. Of course he can't promise you it'll work out. But what I read from your post regarding his attitude towards family life is this:

1. He told you a few times he didn't ever want your lifestyle (having kids I presume) and broke up with you over it. Later you explained he didn't want to get close to your kids because of the distance, etc. But going back to his original statement - did he not want kids in general or just your kids? If it were me in your place, this would not make me confident that he's ready to give family life a serious chance. Did he ever tell you that he'd like to give it a try (but can't promise anything)? Or are you trying to inch him closer to it by getting him to Skype with your kids? I get your logic but what happens if the kids get attached (as they're already reacting positively) and he's still not ready to make that decision?

2. I understand that he's younger than you and less experienced but at the same time, he's 26 so an adult. Yet he acts pretty immature. He harassed you and called you a bad person because you broke up with him because he didn't want your kids. He still resents you for not coming to see him when he wanted it, even if you had other responsibilities. Come on! You have kids and this isn't going to change, you are always going to put them first no matter what and if he wants to be a part of your future he's going to have to accept them or not. Nothing wrong with him not being ready or not being ready yet, but he has to be consistent with his decision and you have to accept it, for your sake and for the kids' sake.

I don't think your relationship is all doom and gloom at all, but I do think he's not taking your position seriously enough and has a lot of growing up to do. You can help him with this but you have to be aware of the problems and he has to acknowledge his responsibilities.

I wish you good luck!

[Verojoon]

1. He told you a few times he didn't ever want your lifestyle (having kids I presume) and broke up with you over it. Later you explained he didn't want to get close to your kids because of the distance, etc. But going back to his original statement - did he not want kids in general or just your kids? If it were me in your place, this would not make me confident that he's ready to give family life a serious chance. Did he ever tell you that he'd like to give it a try (but can't promise anything)? Or are you trying to inch him closer to it by getting him to Skype with your kids? I get your logic but what happens if the kids get attached (as they're already reacting positively) and he's still not ready to make that decision?

He is ready to make the decision. I feel uncomfortable saying it so assertively since it's been a few months since we've last had that conversation and since he's not given me any reason to doubt he still feels that way, so there is no point me re-hashing it over and over again each time I get a little insecure over things that are actually in the past... But I do believe he is ready to make the decision and he is reacting positively to it... He just doesn't want to promise anything until he gets to meet them... This is one of the reason I am so frustrated with all the paperwork issues that are preventing him to come to me... (and I can't take my children with me when I visit him because my ex-husband won't allow me to take them out of the country.)

I guess he never said he didn't ever want my lifestyle, but this is how I understood it at the time. He said he'd never imagined himself to be married or have children. He isn't a player either... He just imagined himself having his own space and maybe having a girlfriend in his life... but that's about it. He has told me a few times that things are changing for him... maybe not in general... but specifically for me and my family... Lately he's been really there for me in a family-way too. When I text him I am frustrated with the children I always cringe thinking maybe I'm going to drive him away and make him remember how he didn't use to think he could handle this lifestyle. (He has never given me any reason to feel like that. Even when he used to tell me what he did about my "lifestyle", he wouldn't make it sound like my kids behavior had ANYTHING to do with it... ) Anyways, I hesitate, I cringe, but I tell him anyways, because there is no way I want to sugar-coat things for him... actually I may make things sound worst than they actually are... We both do that actually... Like we are both so scared that we will disappoint each other if we were to close the distance that we blow up our faults and make ourselves or our lives sound worse than they are... So when I text him with problems, he now has solutions... it used to be he would just emphasize with me.. or tell me to take it easy since they are just kids (this is actually a cultural thing. Many of my friends are from the same culture as him (and so was the other guy I dated while we were broken up) and it seems that Persian men really spoils young children... and little girls often have their daddy (or a father figure) completely wrapped around their fingers. Now, when I text him with problems though, he has suggestions. Good ones. I can't tell you how often I've texted him lately thanking him because his suggestion got my kids under control... (The most recent scenario I can think of is when I texted him asking him I would survive that there was still 1 hour left before bed time since they were driving me crazy and he suggested I give them a nice calming bubble bath... simple suggestion really, but the type that as a single parent being driven crazy, I don't see immediately! And it feels so good to have a partner to help me if even from a distance)

We talked a little about it last night. He apologized. He said it seems that this time he was the one PMSing... (I've been eating crap lately, and when I do my PMS moods are HORRIBLE... and he just dealt with that very gracefully (The only thing he said that pissed me off, which really shouldn't have, was asking me why my moods were so much worst for PMS lately...)) He said I needed to stop freaking and feeling like our relationship is over each time we have a little problem (we used to both be guilty of that, he seems to have completely turned the leaf on that one, while I am doing a lot better, but still get that moment of panic...)

When I brought up the kids, I said the fear of what he used to say came up again because he never ask me about it. He said he doesn't need to, I send him updates and photos and he really appreciates always being in the loop and part of it all.

The big problems are really in the past. I feel comfortable with our relationship now. It does NOT excuse the way he acted when we broke up, and it makes me a little nervous that I can't seem to make him understand how he acted was wrong... That being said, his actions speak loud and I really do feel he has matured incredibly since that episode... I think those months apart really gave him time to think about his priorities and what was important to him... He even once told me that he feels like he didn't only lose me but he lost a family... He said he missed hearing about my daughters and how they were doing... I was kind of cynical after everything and didn't take him very seriously at the time... but now I think it may have been true.

I'm willing to move past all of the negative things from the past... but I need him to move past it too... because whenever he brings his hurts back to the surface , it drags my hurts back up too. I think Zephii made some really good points about not knowing how to move past the hurts especially since there isn't really anyone to blame... He's tried blaming himself, he's tried blaming me... but when he's honest with himself, I think he knows it was a combination of both of us and a whole other bunch of circumstances...

Closing the distance won't be easy for us. I mentioned my children and how I can't take them out of country, I mentioned paperwork issues, I mentioned it would take three years just to finish his current immigration process... But there are other problems... I don't blame him for having thought it was impossible for us to ever be together forever... Now, he's willing to work on it... I guess in a way he was always willing to work on it.. he just never wanted to say it... like if he said it, he would have to figure it all out right away...

Anyways thanks for reading my rambling and giving me your opinion. It really helps. As I try to answer your concerns, I am really de-tangling the thoughts in my head! Thanks !