How much is too much?

[Patar]

Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong section. I'm a brand new member, and my relationships been in some dire situations these past few weeks.

Without trying to drag things out any longer than they have to be, here's the gist of things (WARNING: this post is about cheating, forgiveness, and moving forward) -

My SO and I met in the fall/winter of last year, and very quickly began talking very personally and deeply with each other. We got very romantic and intimate months later, around March but were not exclusive. I've always been single, but she was dating around with arranged dates from her friends and family. She saw this guy in April for a while and then broke things off with him because she was becoming more serious about being together with me. Towards the end of April and early May, I started getting money together to visit her (I'm in California, she's in Colorado). Once I was close to my goal, things got stressful between us and we had a falling out for about 4 days, over a weekend. After we started talking again, she told me weeks later that on that weekend she had gotten back together with the guy she broke up with the month prior. I've always been a very forgiving and tolerant dude, so I put it behind me and promised myself to never hold it against her. I understand the distance and separation is miserable. I feel it too. Luckily, her father had accumulated some frequent flyer miles and offered her use of them. She took a flight out here for 5 days at the very end of May. I can honestly say it was the greatest 5 days of my life. Trying not to romanticize things, but I have never felt as happy as I did when I was with her and that is nothing but fact. She's gone back to Colorado, and I've been working part-time saving money. In June, I booked a flight to Colorado for August, this time for her entire break out of school (we both agreed, she wanted me there as long as possible. 3 weeks). Things were going great until July. Things got tense again, and I'm wondering if nearing another visit is what triggers some stress. Anyway... we stopped talking so often, and when we did I hardly felt any depth to the conversation. Last Friday, she called me and told me she couldn't do this and that she was miserable being away from me and she didn't think things are going anywhere because I'm not working full-time, she's in school full-time and supported financially by her dad, and that I still live at home. I couldn't get any more reasons from her as to why she wanted to break up. We didn't talk for a day and on Sunday she called again. This is where things got rough.

She told me that she'd been lying to me for a while, and that she'd gotten back together with her ex again. She said he gave her an ultimatum, to break things off with me or he would leave her. So that explains the call on Friday. We argued for a long time. I couldn't believe she truly wanted to end what we had, our love is unparalleled by anyone I've ever met. We're attached on such a deep level and have such great rapport. Later that day, we talked on the phone again. She said that all I'd been yelling about earlier was right, a lot of stuff about how much we cared for each other and how much good we did each other. It didn't feel fair to either of us to take that away from each other. She told me that my texts and messages and calls get her through her days and hard times, and her company and care gets me through mine. And every day since she's been flopping back and forth between "I can't do this, we need to stay away from each other" vs. "I'm so conflicted I don't know what to do but I don't want you to leave me."

To be honest. I am conflicted too. What she's done to me has hurt me incredibly, but I still want to try. I can still forgive her, because I KNOW that she genuinely regrets what happened and that she still wants things to work. But we just don't know what steps we need to take. And I have no issues with trying with everything I have again, but I need to know she's going to commit. I don't know how much I should be putting into this anymore. Or how much I should put up with.

So my questions to you guys:
- How much is too much? Should we have given up already? or should we keep fighting and do everything we can to make things better?
- What steps can we take to strengthen our bond, ease the feelings of loneliness and hopelessness, and give us something promising to work towards?
- Is it irrational to endure being cheated on and still love your SO and move beyond mistakes?

I have been e-mailing couples councilors experienced with LDRs that may be able to see us a few times while I am visiting in Denver (if the trip still goes through). That way we can get professional advice, and hopefully being able to comfort each other in person again, and discussing our problems face to face may remind us what we're fighting for and give us a clearer sense of what we need to change, do better, or work towards.

Please help. If you would like to hear her side of things, I have it saved in text.

[Black_Halloween]

To sum this all up: she's been cheating on you the entire time and she doesn't know what she wants. I get that it hurts but run away dude, run far away,

[Patar]

believe me, I've been trying but we keep going back to each other. It's not just me. And to be honest, the pain of being cheated on is fading pretty quickly. I think it's worse to imagine losing her.

I know the rational decision is to get the hell outta Dodge. But I've come to terms with the fact that I'm nuts, I need some supportive talk. Even if people don't agree with what's going on, there's still a lot that can be done. I can't be the only person who has gotten passed something like this.

[Sanja]

I was cheated on by my ex who was 6,000 miles away. I thought it was something I could get over, but I realized I deserved much better than that. And so do you. She has been cheating and can't make up her mind about what she wants. I understand you love her, but love and respect yourself more and do what is best for you. From your post, I would say she is not it!

[Black_Halloween]

Let me add: She does -not- by any means, love you. People in love, true love, do not do this to the person they love. Don't fall prey to the "well i hope it goes away" because it never will. There will be that small voice in your head that wonders if shes with that other man.

[Dezface]

Well sir. I was cheated on for a very, very long time. I married the person who was cheating on me because I loved him. I decided to ignore ALL the signs that said he was a serial cheater. I purposely didn't look for things because I knew what I would find. And you know what? For awhile that worked. He did what he wanted and I turned a blind eye and forgave. We were "happy." It was OK until...it wasn't. I didn't realize it at the time, but as time went on I got more and more resentful. I started treating him badly. And he started ignoring me. To sum it up, our marriage fell apart. It went on for almost 9 years but it was always doomed from the start.

She can't be trusted. She lies and cheats and you forgive. You know what that tells her? That no matter what she does, it's OK and you'll take her back. I realize now that's the lesson I taught my ex-husband. And people like that will keep doing what they're doing as long as they can get away with it. You're basically giving her permission to treat you like scum.

It will hurt to lose her but it will hurt worse the longer you let it go on. Save all the extra pain and suffering and end it now. She's not serious about being faithful to you and she never will be.

[aniay]

From personal experience:

If a girl cheats, means she's not happy with the relationship she's in.

You say, WE are in love what should WE do... The thing is, she's holding two birds and doesn't want to let go of neither of them.

You are NOT special to her. You are in this alone.

Her words are only words because she's not proving them.

With my experience I'd leave, no matter how much it hurts.

[LadyDaemon]

I'm sorry and I hope you don't take me wrong when I say this,but I think if what you're looking for here is for us to be supportive despite the fact that she cheated on you TWICE (if not more,correct me if I'm wrong),then you're probably in the wrong place. I'm not trying to drive you away from here by any means because there are very intelligent people here who can give you good sound advice,but there's no way to condone cheating on any level. Like BH said,if she really loved and needed you as much as she says,then she wouldn't have cheated on you in the first place. Having trouble dealing with the distance is not an excuse to ever cheat on someone. If she can't deal and she can't keep other guys out of her pants then she needs to be woman enough to let you go. I'm going to repeat myself for the 1000th time,trust in LDRs is extremely important,once you've lost that then it's very hard to get that back. You may think you forgive her right now or that you haven't lost trust with her but watch,in the future like someone else mentioned,you're going to find yourself questioning her every time you know she's going out or going to see someone. That's not a relationship.

However,if you choose to stay with her and try to work it out,you need to make sure she understands that what she did was not excusable and that she's going to have to earn your trust back over time. Don't just look at her and go "Oh I forgive you! let's be big happy couple now!". Because if you do that then that will tell her she can just get away with whatever she does to you and she needs to know the opposite. Good luck.

[Riyko]

You say you two keep falling back with each other, the easiest solution to stop that from happening is cut off all contact with her, delete her from facebook, email, phone, messengers etc anyway you communicate. The relationship you two have isn't healthy what so ever.

[MattDavies86]

Short Answer: Bye
Long Answer: Good-bye

[Rugger]

Did I miss where it said you two became exclusive?

[princessmaria]

Long distance relationships rely on trust more than anything else to stay strong. If by some chance you trust her that would either be a miracle or your own self denial of the situation. The likelihood of her cheating on you again is way too high to even consider being exclusive with her. I understand that you care for her and I honestly believe that she cares for you too, but due to the circumstances and the fact that you two are a distance away, it may be beneficial to put off any sort of titles or exclusiveness. I don't think she's ready to give up what she already has for something she doesn't feel is as certain because as you said, you still live at home and she relies on her father so there are no long term goals in sight. You can love someone and still be friends with them, especially if you love her like you say that you do. Sometimes we meet the person we love at the wrong time in our lives/their lives, but that doesn't mean it isn't love. I say live your life and let her live hers. She does not seem like she's ready to commit to an LDR and you shouldn't try to force things so much. Her cheating is a clear indication that she was unhappy and as long as you two are in an LDR I feel as if she will continue to cheat. Save yourself the heartache.

[Ejoriah]

Fool you once, shame on her. Fool you twice...

Like someone else mentioned, long-distance is no excuse. If you have not agreed that she is allowed to pursue other people while away, then what she did is cheating and it is wrong. Some people are just not made for long distance relationships and she may be one of them, but that does NOT excuse what she did. A lot of people are in long distance relationships and have to deal with loneliness and craving physical contact, but that does not make it OK to go and find it elsewhere.

Now to your questions:
- How much is too much? Should we have given up already? or should we keep fighting and do everything we can to make things better?
I am usually all for fighting for a relationship - a GOOD relationship where both people want to be together and both want to make it work. However it feels to me that she is trying to get you to break up with her, while not appearing to want to break up herself. A lot of people don't want to be the "bad guy" and to me she's trying to push you into calling it quits. You are SURE that she regrets what she has done - but until she told you she was cheating on you, were you SURE she was being faithful? If she was lying to you and deceiving you, how can you be SURE she is regretting it and wanting it to work, when in your own words she cannot make up her mind whether you two should be together or not.

- What steps can we take to strengthen our bond, ease the feelings of loneliness and hopelessness, and give us something promising to work towards?
This is different for every couple. Not lying about who you're sleeping with on the side (or not doing that at all in an exclusive relationship) is a start. A lot of people here don't know when they're ending the distance, or know when but it's far in the future. I still have a year to go. I can't speak for everyone, but for me I just know that my boyfriend is the one I want and no one could possibly compare. I talk to him, and knowing that he feels the same way about me makes me feel less lonely. How could I feel lonely knowing that someone as amazing as him is working just as hard as I am for us to be together? On days when it feels hopeless I just try to occupy my mind on something. Where there's a will, there's a way... there just REALLY needs to be a will. You say you want to go to counseling and that could be a great idea, but if she doesn't have the will to make it work (and I don't think she does since she apparently cannot pick between you and her ex) then there is nothing you can do about it.

Is it irrational to endure being cheated on and still love your SO and move beyond mistakes?
Yes. It is not irrational to forgive mistakes because when you love someone, you love them with their imperfections. Everyone is human and will err from time to time. If she had cheated once at the beginning of the relationship and you forgave it... fine. But she's cheated and lied to you and it's irrational that you'll just keep forgiving her when she's stringing you along and not being honest. It's better to be alone than to be with someone who doesn't respect you.

[digitalfever]

Did I miss where it said you two became exclusive?

I was thinking the exact same thing. From my understanding OP your “SO” was never actually your “SO” and more of an unofficial partner that you felt a connection with. Therefore, she’s more than welcome to explore similar connections with other men including her ex.

[Laural007]

Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong section. I'm a brand new member, and my relationships been in some dire situations these past few weeks.

So my questions to you guys:
- How much is too much? Should we have given up already? or should we keep fighting and do everything we can to make things better?
- What steps can we take to strengthen our bond, ease the feelings of loneliness and hopelessness, and give us something promising to work towards?
- Is it irrational to endure being cheated on and still love your SO and move beyond mistakes?

No one can tell you how much is too much, only you can decide that. I personally wouldn't fight for a relationship where I have been cheated on, especially in a LDR. I would drive myself insane with the "where is he, why hasn't he text, called in x amount of time" I'd second guess every place he went to and who he was hanging out with. It wouldn't be fair to either one of us, especially if he was really trying now.

You really can't lesson the feelin of loneliness or hopelessness, some days are just easier then others. You two need to come up with some long term goals and starts working towards that. Are you willing to relocate to her hometown? If so, start by finding full time job or two part time jobs and start saving all the money you can. Ih the meantime skype everyday, call each other daily, send her flowers out of the blue, a love letter...not an email....an actual letter by mail.

It's not irrational to love someone so much that you can forgive them but you'll never forget what they did and it will always be in the back of your mind. Temptation is every where and you will have to learn to trust eachother with everything inside of you. I do agree with the others and say RUN, you deserve so much better then what she has given you. Most of all you deserve respect. Good luck to you.