What To Do? Problems With Girlfriend and her Actions

[celtics345]

[Warning: This was a lot longer than I thought, be warned. Sorry!]

Hey guys, long time lurker here, never have posted. Here's my story.

My girlfriend has problems. There's no denying it. I'm 21 and she's 18 and is in her first year of college. We are currently 3 hours away from each other and see each other every other weekend. She has had a terrible life with an alcoholic bartender mother, divorced father whom she doesn't talk too, an abusive family, etc...And yet during all that she hasn't done anything remotely bad. Her mental transition occurred in her Junior year of High School when she had a mental breakdown and failed Chemistry. She was a straight A student before this. She began starving herself (She has severe self-esteem and self-confidence problems), cutting herself, and tried to kill herself twice. This was a year before I knew her.

Then I met her through OkCupid (I have problems of my own, especially Severe Social Anxiety Disorder at the time) and we began dating two weeks later. Problem was the day after we met (We live 25 minutes from each other at home) I left for college. It's been a year and 3 months and we've gone through numerous problems but have made it out of every one. When we fight she completely changes her entire behavior. She begins verbally insulting me (This is all through text mind you since we're a LDR), saying I'm an asshole, is the worst thing to happen to her, she hates me, says I don't care about her, etc...Now when we eventually calm down, more than likely the next day, she says she didn't mean any of it and can't control her emotions which she definitely can't. Speaking of this, pretty much her entire life and thoughts are a contradiction like these. She'll say something one day and then something completely different the next, which makes it really hard to tell her the right things, especially through text, since I never know how she'll react.

Now a couple months ago I made a compromise that when she starts saying those really bad things that I will not respond since she's going crazy. It has worked and simply letting us not text for the rest of the day or a couple hours will almost always work but since she is so clingy that becomes a problem. So she then begins to say things, here is a short excerpt from today's fight when I proposed we stop talking:

Me: "I'm not going to talk to you for the rest of the day since it's clear you don't wanna solve anything and just wanna fight. Let's be mature and back away. I hope you have a good day. I'll text you either tonight when I go to bed or in the morning. I won't answer anymore texts so this is a fair warning."

Her: "Fuck you"

Her: "If you don't answer me I will do bad things and it will be all your fault. I hope you're okay living with that haha.

Her: "Also if you go through with not texting me for the rest of the day , consider this relationship over. I don't need your shit. I hope you regret everything being an asshole to me."

Now that last part, the breaking up, I know for a fact she will not do. She is way to attached to me and has absolutely no one else and has told me numerous times that she will never, no matter the circumstances, break up with me. I'm more concerned for the first part. She does that a good amount. Now many have said that "Oh they're just manipulating you, she won't actually do it," which is definitely true but she has had a history of doing stuff before which is the part that worries me. It is very tough, excluding simply backing away and not texting, to fix things and you see how hard it is to do simply that.

A little about myself. I know the first thing on everyone's mind is to just break up with her, I understand that. I am very, very well off in life right now and have completely overcome any of my problems so there isn't really much left to worry about in my life specifically. I have it all down, nothing bothers me, yadda yadda yadda. I love helping people however, especially people who have gone through similar things to me like her. So I put all my feelings behind, since I'm fine, and focus on helping and caring for her. I care way too much, which is a problem considering the fact that I would never break up with my girlfriend is I know for a fact she will kill herself, which she would most likely do since I'm the only thing left in her life. I love her very much and when we are good, we are great! Especially together, not long distance. 95% of our fights occur through text when we're at college. We are nearly perfect when we're together in person, aka summer and winter break. I graduate college in the spring and will be heading back home so I'll be 30 minutes away from her and can go through with a normal relationship, which I know will work, at that point.

I'm just mainly asking for different advice than what I usually hear. I know I should break up with her, I know she's crazy and not good for my health. But it has been over a year and I haven't been happier in my life. I also greatly enjoy a challenge, which is what she is. Without her in my life it would be beyond boring. I would be completely content with normality, doing school work day after day. I'm just curious as to what other fellow long distance relationshiper's(?) think, especially ones currently dating others who have seriously harmed themselves or spout that they will.

[Moon]

Stop referencing your girlfriend as "crazy", it's rude and insulting, regardless of it's validity. I realize you're young, but guys who do that usually get ignored and it just comes off as hyperbole.

Anyway, if you want to stay with her, you need to learn to ignore her self-harm manipulation crap. Seriously. My ex-husband loved to be a drama queen about that kind of stuff, at first it's terrifying, especially CD, while he's got a gun pointed at himself. After a while though, it just gets stupid, and you really stop reacting, you're kinda going "That's nice, dear" in your head. You can only threaten something so many times before people stop believing you! I know you'll be afraid for her for a while, but you'll get over it, I promise, it really is a Boy Who Cried Wolf thing.

Also, I realize and respect that you're trying to fix this girl, but you do understand that you can't, don't you? If she's legitimately got mental problems (You calling her "crazy" so often makes me doubt you, see?), you can't help fix that, you are not a trained, licensed professional that she likely needs. You can talk to her, encourage her, and support her, but you can't fix her. You said she's in college, so I think you should try convincing her to see the school therapist. If you want to stay with her, and you want to eventually have a healthy relationship, it's a must. Get over the Knight in Shining Armor thing, and help her to get the help she needs.

The longer you allow her to manipulate you, the harder it will be to break. I think your idea of ignoring her when she acts like a brat is a good one, you should keep up with it. Good luck.

[silvermoonfairy3]

Is she seeing a professional for help? I don't mean that rudely, I'm serious. It sounds like she really does need assistance of a trained mental health professional for issues this severe. If she isn't, that's the first step, but definitely don't bring it up when she's mad or you're mad. It should be a calm, supportive, non-threatening discussion. Colleges usually have psychologists that students can see, so it should be pretty easy for her to have access to that, even if it might be intimidating for her to actually go do it.

Threatening to do something bad to herself if she doesn't hear from you is emotional blackmail, too. I have a friend whose exgirlfriend used to do that. She had a history of cutting herself, and she threatened suicide a few times when he tried to break up with her and lost his nerve because of her threats and such.

I don't want this to sound harsh, but viewing the relationship as something to stay in because you like a challenge/life would be boring doesn't sound like the best view. For one thing, it sort of subtly might make you encourage her to be a "challenge" for you, which long-term is bad for her to keep doing that behavior, and bad for you to have a healthy relationship with a healthy partner.

You could perhaps suggest to her a "trial breakup" *while* you guys work together on getting her some help? That you'll be there to make sure she's feeling comfortable seeing a psychologist (because that could be a scary thing for her) and there to help with those initial visits and getting a feel for it, and seeing how things are going. And that you'd leave the door open to a discussion of maybe being in a relationship if she's interested down the road, when things have gotten a bit less all over the place.

Just a thought. Good luck!

[celtics345]

Stop referencing your girlfriend as "crazy", it's rude and insulting, regardless of it's validity. I realize you're young, but guys who do that usually get ignored and it just comes off as hyperbole.

Anyway, if you want to stay with her, you need to learn to ignore her self-harm manipulation crap. Seriously. My ex-husband loved to be a drama queen about that kind of stuff, at first it's terrifying, especially CD, while he's got a gun pointed at himself. After a while though, it just gets stupid, and you really stop reacting, you're kinda going "That's nice, dear" in your head. You can only threaten something so many times before people stop believing you! I know you'll be afraid for her for a while, but you'll get over it, I promise, it really is a Boy Who Cried Wolf thing.

Also, I realize and respect that you're trying to fix this girl, but you do understand that you can't, don't you? If she's legitimately got mental problems (You calling her "crazy" so often makes me doubt you, see?), you can't help fix that, you are not a trained, licensed professional that she likely needs. You can talk to her, encourage her, and support her, but you can't fix her. You said she's in college, so I think you should try convincing her to see the school therapist. If you want to stay with her, and you want to eventually have a healthy relationship, it's a must. Get over the Knight in Shining Armor thing, and help her to get the help she needs.

The longer you allow her to manipulate you, the harder it will be to break. I think your idea of ignoring her when she acts like a brat is a good one, you should keep up with it. Good luck.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply Moon, it means a lot. I entirely realize it is rude and insulting to call her that, I guess the reason I do is because I wholeheartedly believe I'm crazy too. I'm very similar to her, at least when I was 18ish, so I associate with a lot she's going through.

Yeah that is definitely my biggest problem, convincing myself that she will not do anything and is just manipulating me. If I continue to stay strong and trust that she won't do anything and don't fall for it then she'll eventually stop using it as a tactic. I also told her once that I won't ever break up with her if she says she'll kill herself, boy was that a dumb thing to say haha.

I do understand I can't fix her but like I mentioned vaguely I've done a lot to fix myself and she's going through a lot of the same things as me so I feel I can, even though I never fully will. She has definitely gotten better since being with me overall, and she agrees to this. I had social anxiety disorder for my entire high school career and then used a lot of different tactics and practice to overcome it and try to show her the right things to do. I do everything a normal boyfriend does, caring, helping, showing support, etc, I just feel that relating to the situation she's in allows me to try and help her more. You're right on the dot though, I do think subconsciously, incredibly wrongly, that I can 'fix her' when not only can I not but even thinking that is a wrong thought. And the therapist, for her, is not an option. She went to one for a year and the therapist made everything worse because she refuses any help from anyone, especially a stranger. Then she went to a family therapist with her mother for a couple months and that ended in a mess, so it's in her brain that therapist are awful. She is currently studying psychology and might become a therapist because of how poorly she believes the system is. I've also been to a therapist for two years and they did nothing but hurt. If you don't go into therapy with an open mind then it does much more harm than good.

But once again, thank you so much for your help! I enjoy getting sincere help instead of someone just saying the typical stuff. The past couple months I've been focusing less and less on 'helping' her so I think I'll eventually get out of that terrible line of thinking. And the whole manipulation is something I really gotta convince myself of. Do you believe the fact that since she has had previous experience with hurting herself and attempted suicide that she might actually do something? That's the tough part for me, the fact that she has done this before. If it were just another person who hasn't done anything before than I'd realize it's straight manipulation.

[Malaga]

The fact she had a difficult childhood doesn't make her less of an abuser and it doesn't diminish the cruelty she subjects you to. Everything she does and says is through her own choice. You're aware her threats are just emotional manipulation. Even if she does end up 'doing bad things', this is not your responsibility. It's completely her choice to do so. I know it seems easier to give in to her manipulation than to stick it out, but then she'll just find something else to blackmail you over, and so on. If you're looking to help her, this is not the way.

Personally she sounds like a plain old assclown to me, no offense. Everything's peachy when you're together and she's the centre of your attention, but when times get tough, she turns nasty. Her threats that she'll kill herself if you leave her are such a cliche, honestly I think most people on this forum dated someone like that at least once, someone who threatened suicide and whatnot, and we all bought it for a while until we saw the light. Guess what, I don't think any of them actually killed themselves once it was over.

How should you proceed? Don't try to be her therapist, you're not qualified for it and especially not while you're dating her. You're the victim of her abuse, it's not up to you to treat her for it. There is nothing wrong with caring for her and you can still be there for her, but in my opinion you should do it as a friend. A romantic relationship leaves you too exposed and puts too many expectations on both of you. Although personally I would break it off and go no contact for a while, then re-establish friendship if you feel so inclined. I know you don't want to hear it but sometimes it's the best thing you can do for someone (and yourself). You'd be surprised at how fast people actually pull themselves together once they realise their behaviour does have consequences and they are accountable for it.

[celtics345]

Thanks silvermoonfairy3 for the reply! I mentioned and detailed her relationship with therapist and therapy in my previous reply so you could check that out. It is really out of the question until she opens up and understands that she needs and accepts help. For example, her current roommate (who she hates because she's fake happy) apparently talked to the school about the fact that she seemed upset and the school called my girlfriend's parents and she flipped out. It's unfortunate that she won't because it truthfully will help her, but like I said in the other message, you have to be open to the help from a stranger in order for it to work.

If you don't mind me prying how did your friend's exgirlfriend end up? Did she ever do harm after they broke up or she was just manipulating and never did anything?

And that is a very good point. I can really see that being a bad line of thinking. Don't get me wrong, that isn't the reason I'm dating her. I date her because I love her and love spending time with her and she can make me laugh and have limitless things in common. The challenge aspect of it is just a bonus I guess. I would never encourage her, I'd prefer if she was better, I want her to succeed.

I fully believe in understanding and bettering yourself before you date someone and I would love for her to understand that and accept it, but I don't have my hopes up. And once again, there's no way, no matter how perfectly I state it, that she'll agree to see a therapist. How she is right now there's just no way, I really wish she would. I couldddddd bring it up when we're perfectly fine and talking in person together but will most certainly happen is she'll immediately become extremely upset and angry at me because I think she's stupid and crazy. She has Bipolar Disorder and extreme mood swings so it's tough to ever bring something up to her.

Once again thank you for the great help! I'll take it all in. If you've read my other reply and this one, knowing now how she'll act after bringing up a psychologist, is there anyway you'd suggest in bringing it up or what to do in relation to that because therapy could be the biggest help, she is just so far against it that it has only done harm so far. She needs to want help from someone who can help her.

[celtics345]

Damn you guys are great at detailed replies here, I was not expecting this! Thanks so much Malaga. Yeah, her terrible childhood really didn't help anything, and believe me I don't use it as an excuse for her to allow her to act the way she does. Especially considering how great she is at every other walk of life, she doesn't drink, do drugs, smoke, does great at school, is a nice person when she's fine, etc...so I hold her in higher regard than her family. I will start believing it's simple manipulation, it's just tough.

Yeah she really is. She hardly appreciates the amount I do and care for her and doesn't understand how good I am to her. She has admitted to this too and has told me that it's really tough for her to appreciate what people do for her, which I understand as something from her upbringing. The key thing you said in that paragraph though is that everyone here has (past tense) dated someone like my girlfriend, meaning that they never work out.

Which leads me to your next paragraph. I really understand that I shouldn't be in this relationship at this point, but I want too. It's not healthy for me, no. But I'm fine with how I am. That is an incredibly good point, that I'm the victim of her abuse so I can't really treat her, I never thought of it like that! And unfortunately there's no way we'll be able to be friends. There have been times when we have 'broken up' for like a day and she just freaks out on me and says the worst things ever. Maybe if I stuck with it overtime we could evolve into friends but I really do enjoy dating her how she is now at the end of the day. The majority of our time together is great, we have so much in common and laugh at everything the other does. It's just this one thing that happens whenever we fight or argue that make things problematic.

Thanks again for the help, I am loving these responses! You guys are opening up my eyes about myself moreso than her, which is kinda what I was looking for since I knew I was doing things wrong, understanding manipulation, trying to change her, etc..

[Moon]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply Moon, it means a lot. I entirely realize it is rude and insulting to call her that, I guess the reason I do is because I wholeheartedly believe I'm crazy too. I'm very similar to her, at least when I was 18ish, so I associate with a lot she's going through.

Yeah that is definitely my biggest problem, convincing myself that she will not do anything and is just manipulating me. If I continue to stay strong and trust that she won't do anything and don't fall for it then she'll eventually stop using it as a tactic. I also told her once that I won't ever break up with her if she says she'll kill herself, boy was that a dumb thing to say haha.

I do understand I can't fix her but like I mentioned vaguely I've done a lot to fix myself and she's going through a lot of the same things as me so I feel I can, even though I never fully will. She has definitely gotten better since being with me overall, and she agrees to this. I had social anxiety disorder for my entire high school career and then used a lot of different tactics and practice to overcome it and try to show her the right things to do. I do everything a normal boyfriend does, caring, helping, showing support, etc, I just feel that relating to the situation she's in allows me to try and help her more. You're right on the dot though, I do think subconsciously, incredibly wrongly, that I can 'fix her' when not only can I not but even thinking that is a wrong thought. And the therapist, for her, is not an option. She went to one for a year and the therapist made everything worse because she refuses any help from anyone, especially a stranger. Then she went to a family therapist with her mother for a couple months and that ended in a mess, so it's in her brain that therapist are awful. She is currently studying psychology and might become a therapist because of how poorly she believes the system is. I've also been to a therapist for two years and they did nothing but hurt. If you don't go into therapy with an open mind then it does much more harm than good.

But once again, thank you so much for your help! I enjoy getting sincere help instead of someone just saying the typical stuff. The past couple months I've been focusing less and less on 'helping' her so I think I'll eventually get out of that terrible line of thinking. And the whole manipulation is something I really gotta convince myself of. Do you believe the fact that since she has had previous experience with hurting herself and attempted suicide that she might actually do something? That's the tough part for me, the fact that she has done this before. If it were just another person who hasn't done anything before than I'd realize it's straight manipulation.

Well, therapy isn't for everybody, personally I don't think I'd ever benefit much from it, either. Here's the deal though, you can try to help her by providing her with the tactics that worked for you, and you can support and encourage, but the thing is, she has to be ready for the help, which is something only she can do. You have to be prepared for the possibility that could be tomorrow, next month, next year, or even never. You should decide exactly how much you're willing to take, then draw the line in the sand somewhere, and stick to that. If you want to stay, that's cool, but you need to know at what point it will not be worth it anymore. If, after a few years, she's still manipulative and not very nice to you, will you still want to stick around? What if she only gets worse, instead of better? You have to consider the possibility, and think about it for a while. It's OK to stay with someone who has issues, but you also need to take care of yourself

[lucybelle]

Personally she sounds like a plain old assclown to me, no offense. Everything's peachy when you're together and she's the centre of your attention, but when times get tough, she turns nasty. Her threats that she'll kill herself if you leave her are such a cliche, honestly I think most people on this forum dated someone like that at least once, someone who threatened suicide and whatnot, and we all bought it for a while until we saw the light. Guess what, I don't think any of them actually killed themselves once it was over.

Guilty.

[celtics345]

Well, therapy isn't for everybody, personally I don't think I'd ever benefit much from it, either. Here's the deal though, you can try to help her by providing her with the tactics that worked for you, and you can support and encourage, but the thing is, she has to be ready for the help, which is something only she can do. You have to be prepared for the possibility that could be tomorrow, next month, next year, or even never. You should decide exactly how much you're willing to take, then draw the line in the sand somewhere, and stick to that. If you want to stay, that's cool, but you need to know at what point it will not be worth it anymore. If, after a few years, she's still manipulative and not very nice to you, will you still want to stick around? What if she only gets worse, instead of better? You have to consider the possibility, and think about it for a while. It's OK to stay with someone who has issues, but you also need to take care of yourself

This advice is great! Thanks again Moon. Yeah, because just like her, my way of thinking could change too and my limit could be reached at any point. I think she will get better because she has been and deep down, even though she won't admit it, I think she wants too. Don't get me wrong either, I always think of myself first. If I start to feel actual pain and harm from it that lasts more than a day then I'd start to worry about myself and consider action. But I'm incredibly content in life right now so until that moment I'll still hold out hope.

Ironic update to everyone's claims that she's just manipulating. After those texts in my original post two and a half hours past before she texts me again saying "Hun, will you please talk to me? " Yeah, you guys are right haha. Simple manipulation, I have a feeling very basic manipulation too, right? Like all the steps in order. I'm assuming the correct response to this is no response right?

Update to the Update: She sent another message about 10 minutes later saying "Anyway I calmed down a lot and just want to talk and apologize if you ever answer me. If you don't I will get pissed off again most likely." More manipulation? Man she's tough haha

[Malaga]

Which leads me to your next paragraph. I really understand that I shouldn't be in this relationship at this point, but I want too.

Then I suggest you stick to zero tolerance for her shit. The moment she starts with threats and insults just leave the conversation right there. I wouldn't even get into any explaining and reasoning as it won't help, just let her cool off on her own. Minimise her options of going rampant on you. It's going to be a serious problem for your relationship if this is the only way she can deal with issues and conflicts but maybe she learns with time. She has to realise that her actions provoke reactions and that she has to take responsibility for what she does. You can't make her seek expert help if she doesn't want to or isn't ready to, but even in this 'broken' state she should still be accountable for her actions.

Good luck xx

[itwasmeanttobe]

She sounds very similar to myself. In my past relationship, I found it normal to always have conflict because that is what I always grew up around, dysfunction. I lost my husband because of my abusive ways and it is the biggest regret of my life. I see it now, all the years of crap that he put up with. In my current relationship, however, I have made a promise to myself that I will try my best to change. Since I cannot afford counseling, I have purchased self help books, gotten closer to God and am constantly researching ways to better myself.

As for advice for you. Have you suggested couples counseling? Maybe there is nothing wrong with your relationship per say but it could be a starting point to get her to talk to someone. Suggesting couples counseling will sound much better than "you need help". From there, you can branch off to individual sessions which will help her tremendously. Also, I think you need to stand up for yourself. You are doing good by ignoring her when she goes off the deep end. You also have to let her know that you don't know how much longer you can put up with her abuse and give her the counseling ultimatum. Ultimately it's up to her if she wants to change her ways and fight her true demons. If she does not, she will not ever be happy with you or any other relationship she is in for that matter. Best of luck to you both.

[Yaaamiii]

I hope I don't offend you, but I feel like you're exhibiting signs of being a codependent person...you should look it up if you're not aware of what it is. I recommend the book "beyond codependency" by Caroylm Humphreys. Just to see if you relate to anything the author talks about. I'm not saying you are, it's just that from what I read about what you had to say, you show signs of it. But again, I'm not a professional in any way so xD.

Like moon said, take care of yourself first. If you don't, eventually your relationship will start to fall apart . We must be willing to take care of ourselves before we can take care of anyone else.

[celtics345]

This is very interesting, to hear from the other side of the problem. I appreciate coming forth about it, it'll help other relationships like mine greatly. Sadly however it seems (I could be wrong and assuming, let me know if I am) that what made you realize your problem is when you lost your husband? Aka you never know what you have until it's gone. And that's the key, you made a choice to go out of your way to be better and she hasn't done that yet.

And that is interesting. Like I mentioned somewhere our relationship is amazing when we're together in person, it's mainly the distance and the terrible texting communication that causes problems. But your point that us seeking help together is a really good idea, I think. You're right that it is much better than stating that "You need help" and would definitely potentially help us. I don't know where we'd go though, since we're both college students without much money to go around. And I still think she'd say no and get furious when I bring it up. Thanks for the advice!

[celtics345]

No harm done, I greatly enjoy receiving constructive criticism. I looked it up and you very may be right. The first line on Wikipedia "Codependency is defined as a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition" is exactly me. . . And after further reading I can pretty much guarantee that is me. "It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others."

Now, assuming I do have this condition, which believe me I'm fine with accepting, I've had problems all my life haha, what could be done in helping me overcome or control it? Any advice on that? Thanks for the thought too! I had heard of Codependency, but never made the connection.