Giving up nationality and religion?

[Aussieabroad]

Hey all, I'm minorly panicking

So I am a Jewish girl from Australia who lives and works in New York. My boyfriend is an Athiest American who lives in California.

When we initially started talking, he said he would be up for converting to Judaism and didn't really mind where he lived. But once we properly got together, he revealed that he really didn't want to convert and would only do it for me. Of course as a result, I said I would rather him not convert. As much as he preaches being 'repectful' of religion, he gets super weird about it if I talk about belief and said if we ever lived together, he refused to let me have a Star of David in our home.

Following that, my boyfriend said that America is "his home" and that he just "can't see himself living in Australia". (he has never even visited, so his opinion is fairly skewed). So basically, he's giving me the opportunity to move to CA or it's over. Our compromise was that if I stayed in America, he would convert. Now that he's not converting, he still refuses to move. So basically, for us to be together, it seems I have to give up everything. And I'm just not sure if I'm OK with this I really miss home, my family and everything I know and just don't think I have what it takes to start fresh in another State knowing no one else but him.

What do you guys think I should do? We've been together 5.5 months and have met up twice. I'm supposed to be going to his family for thanksgiving next week for the third meet up.

[0897klpq]

Hey all, I'm minorly panicking

So I am a Jewish girl from Australia who lives and works in New York. My boyfriend is an Athiest American who lives in California.

When we initially started talking, he said he would be up for converting to Judaism and didn't really mind where he lived. But once we properly got together, he revealed that he really didn't want to convert and would only do it for me. Of course as a result, I said I would rather him not convert. As much as he preaches being 'repectful' of religion, he gets super weird about it if I talk about belief and said if we ever lived together, he refused to let me have a Star of David in our home.

Following that, my boyfriend said that America is "his home" and that he just "can't see himself living in Australia". (he has never even visited, so his opinion is fairly skewed). So basically, he's giving me the opportunity to move to CA or it's over. Our compromise was that if I stayed in America, he would convert. Now that he's not converting, he still refuses to move. So basically, for us to be together, it seems I have to give up everything. And I'm just not sure if I'm OK with this I really miss home, my family and everything I know and just don't think I have what it takes to start fresh in another State knowing no one else but him.

What do you guys think I should do? We've been together 5.5 months and have met up twice. I'm supposed to be going to his family for thanksgiving next week for the third meet up.

In my honest opinion, the thing that I find hard with LDR is that in the end someone has to make the biggest sacrifice. The best thing that you can do is make a compromise.

Now, it's hard for him to say he'd never settle to Aus if he's never been there. I think what you can do is just really think if this is worth your time and effort. If he isn't respectful towards you and your beliefs then that's a big red flag. It seems like he wants you to make all the moves to make jt work. It should be a mutual effort.

Maybe talk to him about it?

[Lostviolinist]

This is a really complicated issue, one that me and my girlfriend spoke about thoroughly. Either of you expecting the other to convert should not have been an option. He should be respectful and accepting and not even have a thought of wanting you to abandon your religion, but you should also understand his views and accept that he will not follow it the way you do. It's very difficult to change your ideas on religion once they are firmly rooted in you so I feel your compromise was doomed from the start. I understand him feeling strange when you speak of religion. I felt the same way when my girlfriend mentioned God. I just don't know how to respond simply because I do not feel the same way about it, but I never denied her belief. I at least would listen to her. If she wanted to keep symbols in our home and go to church I would never deny her that right. I would even go with her. My greatest worry was what we would teach our children when it came to religion. Luckily, we came to an agreement that was equal to both our views, but that is something that I feel can bring a lot of conflict even if you managed to get over it in the past.
As for the issue of where to live. Both of you should have understood what a relationship like yours meant. One of you or both of you will have to leave the place you call home. Deciding who that will be and how you will cope with it or whether you will both make the move to keep it fair is a decision that varies depending on your situation. For us, it was easy. Simply because in my mind, home is where I make it and I feel I can find work almost anywhere. I may miss my family but it's not like I'll say goodbye to them forever. It may be harder to visit but not impossible. For her, it was more of a difficult choice, but she is still willing to come to America or whichever country my work takes me should I be unable to go to China with her. So neither of us feel pressured to leave for the other since we are both willing. We will make our choice based on which one is the most viable when the day comes. It's not about what's better for one or the other, but what's better for us.
5 months isn't that long. You have a lot of time to think and work out a solution. See if you can get him to visit your home and open his eyes a little. Maybe he will reconsider life in Australia. Of course if you see he is totally unwilling to accept your religion and be more open about where to live then although I hate saying it, it may be better for you to let go if it's too hard for you to make all those sacrifices alone. Like the user above said, it should be a mutual effort.

[differentcountries]

I think you have been together not long enough to make such profound decitions, especially when there is ambivalence involved. Yes, there sometimes comes a crossroad where one party says this, or.... But you haven't even dated 6 months, ultimatums are totally inappropriate!

If you do decide to settle in the US, surely he understands that you will be visiting Australia? Or doesn't his plans for the future include inlaws and stuff?

Going from refusing YOU to have religions symbols in your common home, to being totally ok with converting, that is weird. Religion is not a compromise. I understand sometimes people do it mostly to be nice, or they don't have strong opinions on the matter, but he doesn't sound like he knows what he wants at all.

[TwoThree]

About the religion issue: I stongly believe that no one should change one's religion for a partner. He is right in not wanting to convert if he is a convinced atheist, and kudos for you not pressuring him.

However, I don't think he has any right in deciding that you shouldn't even have a Star of David in your home. I'm an atheist myself, sometimes quite strongly anti-theist even, and if my SO was religious I'm quite certain I'd allow him the same freedom of religion of belief I'd want him to allow me. Your SO is not being very respectful or even reasonable. You have to stand up for yourself.

[Miasmata]

Definitey sounds like you two have more talking and thinking to do. Expecting him to convert is unreasonable, considering that religion is such an extremely personal matter, but compromise should definitely happen. He's not giving Australia a chance, and he's saying flatout No to having your religious symbols in the home - Has he explained properly why, or is he "just" being stubborn and ignorant? Do you know what exactly his reasons are?

Closing the distance has to be a thing you two are absolutely on the same page on. If you're not, one of you is inevitably going to feel like they're getting the short end of the stick, and will feel resentment towards the other partner for it. That can never, ever end well. I think your relationship needs more maturing and more honest, proper talks before you can really plan on closing the distance.

[Aussieabroad]

You're completely right. I think when and IF it comes to the time and we move in together, I'm going to plead my case. Not being allowed a freaking symbol in my home is kind of ridiculous. I think he worries I'm pushing an "agenda" on him and hoping he will convert. Which is not what I'm doing at all. I feel homely when I have symbols of Judaism in my home. I also agree that it is too early to be setting these parameters. I just worry about wasting him and my time.

I think that I'm going to leave it for now. And if he comes with me to visit home and is still completely closed off to the idea of moving to Aus, I will need to have a serious chat with him. His family lives in Colorado and he is in California. It's not like he lives down the road from his family anyway, like I would in Sydney.

[Miasmata]

A very good attitude to have, Aussieabroad. Leave it be for now and give your relationship time to develop, maybe he will learn to trust you not to pressure you on the religion issue. However, if you keep showing him good will and he stays stubborn and ignorant, a serious talk is necessary. As said, it has to be a give and take, and while keeping exact tabs is petty and toxic (aka "I did X, you HAVE to do Y now"), you two have to feel that a general, fair balance is being kept. You deserve to have your needs respected as much as he does.

[Aussieabroad]

That's true. I am definitely moving to LA at the end of next year or beginning of 2016, which is fine. But I think the idea that he is a definite "no" to living in Australia is really unfair. If we tried it and he was really unhappy, I would be fine with living in America. But if he has had his mind made up before even VISITING Australia, then it's another thing. I'm being open minded and giving his home a try, so it's only fair he has an open mind when we eventually visit Sydney. I feel like that's not an unreasonable ask?

[digitalfever]

That's true. I am definitely moving to LA at the end of next year or beginning of 2016, which is fine. But I think the idea that he is a definite "no" to living in Australia is really unfair. If we tried it and he was really unhappy, I would be fine with living in America. But if he has had his mind made up before even VISITING Australia, then it's another thing. I'm being open minded and giving his home a try, so it's only fair he has an open mind when we eventually visit Sydney. I feel like that's not an unreasonable ask?

Why not get him to visit? Make a trip home for a holiday. He probably has no idea what it's really like there...

[Aussieabroad]

yeah that's the plan. I'm hoping once he makes a trip out, he realizes it's actually a really good place. At least I hope so. I'm just not sure I am willing to be in America for good. I miss home already and it's been just under a year...

[R&R]

I have a little different take on it from everyone else. From what I read, it appears he stated what you wanted to hear in order to get into the relationship and then once he had you - well now the truth came out and what he said wasn't true. IMHO, that is highly manipulative behavior. To go from stating he'd convert to now saying he wouldn't even allow a Star of David in your home, should you choose to advance to that step in the relationship, is way too extreme. Where you want to live is also huge. Neither of you wants to live somewhere that you are not going to be happy. It can end up causing resentment for the person who is living where they don't want to be.

When I was 21 I was in a CD relationship with a wonderful man. In order for us to marry, he wanted me to convert to Catholicism. I was raised protestant/baptist. I did go to church with him and give it a try but found I just couldn't agree with some of the fundamentals and knew that if I did convert, I'd stop as soon as we married and that wasn't right. I also wanted children and he didn't want any. We had a real heart to heart and decided as compatible as we were in many aspects, these were things that were too important and they were nothing we could find a common ground on. We split up with no hard feelings toward each other. He ended up marrying a great woman who is a practicing Catholic and they did end up having one child. Sometimes it's not that the other person is bad, it's just that your journeys in life are different and it's better to each move on to find someone that is headed in the same direction you are.

[Petals]

I have a little different take on it from everyone else. From what I read, it appears he stated what you wanted to hear in order to get into the relationship and then once he had you - well now the truth came out and what he said wasn't true. IMHO, that is highly manipulative behavior. To go from stating he'd convert to now saying he wouldn't even allow a Star of David in your home, should you choose to advance to that step in the relationship, is way too extreme. Where you want to live is also huge. Neither of you wants to live somewhere that you are not going to be happy. It can end up causing resentment for the person who is living where they don't want to be.

When I was 21 I was in a CD relationship with a wonderful man. In order for us to marry, he wanted me to convert to Catholicism. I was raised protestant/baptist. I did go to church with him and give it a try but found I just couldn't agree with some of the fundamentals and knew that if I did convert, I'd stop as soon as we married and that wasn't right. I also wanted children and he didn't want any. We had a real heart to heart and decided as compatible as we were in many aspects, these were things that were too important and they were nothing we could find a common ground on. We split up with no hard feelings toward each other. He ended up marrying a great woman who is a practicing Catholic and they did end up having one child. Sometimes it's not that the other person is bad, it's just that your journeys in life are different and it's better to each move on to find someone that is headed in the same direction you are.

Well said! I don't think these issues should be left hanging as they are major, especially religion. Where location is concerned the decision on where to live should be mutually agreed upon based on quality of life, employment, healthcare, education etc. It shouldn't be a selfish decision based only on an emotional connection. The way he's responding to these two major issues is of great concern and is a huge indicator of his personality; sounds very manipulating and controlling to me.

It is not too early to let your views known on these issues so he knows that you are not simply going to accept his dogmatic approach. An ongoing discussion needs to happen to decide if it's worth pursuing this relationship.

[talim]

How important for you is him converting? I think it's unfair to expect him to convert if he personally doesn't want to, but it is also very unfair of him that he doesn't respect your religion. If I was in your situation, I would probably offer a compromise - you will respect that he's atheist and won't pressure him to convert, and he will 100% respect your religion and its symbols and whatever. If he refuses, I would probably reconsider relationship with someone who isn't willing to respect me.

[differentcountries]

He obviously has an issue with religion that could be worth looking into. Does he know any doble religion or religious /atheist couples and how they make up their home, with or without kids? Does he have any negative experiences with religion that he might use as glasses to see you through?

As for where to live long term, that is aways an issue for international couples. At least you don't have the language issue to think about! I suggest you let the issue rest for at least six more months and consentrate on getting to know each other more. One way of doing that, is travelling together, for instance to Aus. Your country is a big part of you, regardless of where you will live in the future. Maybe you could save up for the visit together? And similarly he can show you things from his background. Make it into a project about now, not about future decitions.