Question about a mutual friend of ours.

[whatruckus]

So, if you read my blog, you guys know we had that "break through" talk this weekend (Link to the entry). Well, during the talk, he told me that our mutual friend Liz (that I've talked about in previous blogs) told him that I told her that my birthday in the summer was "uneventful" (again, if you read my blog, you know he only took me to the Aquarium and didn't the other stuff he had planned) and he said that he was hurt by that (Link to Birthday Entry). Now, the problem is...I never said that.

I never told her it was "uneventful", or that I didn't have a good time. Quite the contrary. I told her that I had a lot of fun at the Aquarium, but I was disappointed we didn't do the other stuff he kept saying we were going to do. Big difference, in my opinion. You can even read in my blog (that I haven't edited since I posted it the day after my birthday) that I never said anything like that, or thought anything like that. My blog is where I'm brutally honest about my life and things that go on in our relationship. I don't hide anything, I have no reason to. It's my outlet.

This is also not the first time where she's come up in our "talks". Last time, when we were on the "break", or whatever, I was talking to her and he was talking to her about our problems. Thing is, she was telling me to break up with him, and telling him to break up with me.

He also said that, no matter what I might think, that she's probably closer to him than she is to me. Which, had me taken aback a bit because that's not what she'd been telling me since I met her. But, I guess I kind of see that now. She texts him and asks him what he's doing now. Not so much me. Even when I'm with him. She calls him when she has problems now. She never did that until she became single last year, which I was helping her through and that's how we became close. I don't think she'd ever try anything with him, and I'm absolutely positive he would never do anything with her. So, it's not like I don't trust either of them in that sense. I just feel like, as a friend, she shouldn't be telling him things that I say about him. Especially when they're in the heat of the moment. The only things she told me that he said were how he was thinking about seeing other girls (when we were on our break). I also don't feel like she shouldn't be telling the both of us to break up with each other, but then also say, "I'm rooting for you guys!" while we're having problems. When we talked about this part, he defended her and said that she was probably just trying to make both of us happy and stay "neutral" (he's one of those people that always tries to see the good in others). But, even still, that doesn't make sense to me. You know what I mean?

What irritates me about this whole thing is that she told him something that I never said, and it hurt him. I don't know if she misunderstood what I said, or if he misunderstood her. All I know is, I never said anything along the lines of what she may have told him. But, thinking back, I did notice that when we were having problems and talking to Liz about them all the time, nothing really improved. It wasn't until we stopped seeing her as often, and talking to her, that things got better. (Long story short of why: She got banned from the one bar we all hung out at, because she got into a fight.)

There's also the fact that her relationship history itself isn't the best. Her and her now ex (who I love still) had a rocky relationship. She wasn't the best girlfriend. Extremely moody, and she was always yelling at him for something stupid, berating him really (literally screaming at him). Especially in public. It was embarrassing for the both of them, and I always felt bad for him. Not to mention, the awkwardness when she would do it in front of us/their other friends. So, I almost feel like she wasn't the best person to even really be giving advice now.

Plus, now I'm thinking, what else has she said to him that I didn't say? Or, what else could she have influenced him? It made me wonder if that was one of the reasons why he wanted the break, considering the break happened about a week after my birthday.

I sent him a long email about this, and told him that I never said that. It just really bothers me that he thinks I said something, that I didn't say, and it hurt his feelings a lot. Now, it's been so long that I can't even say anything to Liz about it because, knowing her, she won't remember. Am I overreacting about this? It hurts me knowing he's hurt by something he thinks I said. You know? Especially, since he told me that he had put a lot of thought into my birthday, even if we ended up just doing the aquarium, and he thought he did a good job. This whole time, I had no idea. I said in the email that I don't think I'm going to talk to Liz about our relationship anymore. Even if she meant well, she kind of did more harm than good.

[conejita_hada]

I remember you being disappointed about your birthday but yeah, I don't remember you talking about it being uneventful, just disappointed all the activities didn't pan out. Its completely understandable to vent to friends about a relationship. I do it, too! Maybe she did just misinterpret and tell him the wrong words but to me it also sounds like she's an instigator. Of course, I could be reading into it more than necessary. haha I do think you're idea to not talk to her about the relationship is good. Whatever her intentions, it sounds like she's okay with telling your SO what you say which is not okay.

[TheSteelAngel]

Yeah I really think you shouldn't talk to her about your relationship anymore. As you describe it, it really seems like things are better off without her knowing things. She may have ulterior motives or she may not. I don't know since I don't know her lol. Just idk I find it fishy when a female friend is texting a guy who she knows is already taken. It usually means she's interested in him. That's what my friend (who coincidentally is also named Liz lol) did. So yeah that's my 2 cents on this lol. It could just be a Liz thing lol.

[whatruckus]

Well, at least I know I'm not being too crazy about it.

Can I also just mention that when she drinks, she gets super touchy-feely? Not just with my SO, but with guys in general (which is why a lot of ladies don't like her). I remember one time, she asked my SO if they could kiss on the lips. In front of me. And, me and my SO looked at each other like "WTF" and he was like, "UMMM NO." So, yea, I don't know what her deal is. He wasn't really close with her until we started dating, because she and I became friends.

And, I also agree that sometimes when a girl is texting a guy who is in a relationship, it does usually mean she likes him. At least, in my experience it does. I don't know if she likes him, I 85% doubt it. But, it's still weird to me. At least, he's told me numerous times before (and after) our break that he would never get with someone like her. Especially, when she'd yell at her ex, Brian (he's one of our good friends), when they were together. She's got too much attitude (and she does, which is another reason why A LOT of people, guys and girls, don't like her and think she's a bitch). My SO and I have even had quite a few talks about her and her personality, and how she would treat Brian.

So, I mean, I really don't know what her intentions are, good or bad, but she was definitely a little toxic for our relationship when we would open up to her about it.

[Kapwned]

Whether it's intentional or not, it sounds like she meddles with the affairs of your relationship and perhaps you two should stop going to her for advice and to vent about the issues in that specific relationship. She is the middle man and clearly she has the potential to mix up feelings, intentions, or worse case scenario, she's saying these things on purpose to stir up drama. Personally if I were a good friend to a couple I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a rough patch and by telling you she's closer to him than she is to you it sounds like she's essentially told you where her loyalty lies (with him).

I'd hate to think she's trying to sabotage your relationship. Let's hope she isn't. Either way, maybe you two should agree to not talk to her about what's going on between the two of you.

[whatruckus]

Whether it's intentional or not, it sounds like she meddles with the affairs of your relationship and perhaps you two should stop going to her for advice and to vent about the issues in that specific relationship. She is the middle man and clearly she has the potential to mix up feelings, intentions, or worse case scenario, she's saying these things in purpose to stir up drama. Personally if I were a good friend to a couple I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a rough patch and by telling you she's closer to him than she is to you it sounds like she's essentially told you where her loyalty lies (with him).

I'd hate to think she's trying to sabotage your relationship. Let's hope she isn't. Either way, maybe you two should agree to not talk to her about what's going on between the two of you.

If I was the middle person, I don't think I would mention anything about what the other person said. Or, I wouldn't say "Oh well...she/he said this." I would just say something vague, but kind of hinting at what the person did say. Like, if I was the outsider and wanted to let him know that I was disappointed, I would just say something like, "Well, if my boyfriend told me all of this stuff we were going to do, and then we didn't do it, personally...I'd be a little upset and disappointed." Not, "Oh, well, Traci said it was uneventful and she didn't like it." Or something. Plus, she knew everything that he was supposed to do, so I don't know why she would out me like that. She could've said, "What happened to the other stuff you were planning on doing?" and then lead into the example of relating it personally. I wouldn't throw the other person under the bus. Plus, I have done something like that, where I was an outsider trying to help. I always relate it to myself and my life, so people aren't offended, or they take it easier. You know what I mean?

I don't know, the whole thing just confuses me. The worst part is that my SO always tries to see the good in people. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love that feature about him, but sometimes it's annoying because he'll get taken advantage of, or manipulated and he can't see it because of his rose-colored-glasses.

I've really been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, and try not to let this bother me, but I can't help it if it hurt him that much, and it was something that's been on his mind for 9 months already.

[Miasmata]

I disagree that a woman messaging a man means that she definitely wants him past a platonic level. However, I do agree that it seems like Liz is seeking attention in an inappropriate fashion, and that she enjoys having the power of being the middleman. A talk about boundaries is in order I think.

[p_b82]

Males and females texting when good friends is nothing more than that - most my close friends are now female, and some of them are taken.

However I agree with Miasmata, what she is doing is not in the best interests of the two individual parties - you do not 'tattle tale' to use a US phrase when you are put in a position of trust by the two parties - unless you do it infront of both parties so there can be no misunderstandings etc.

My advice would be to not discuss your relationship with her, and ask your SO if he can avoid doing so as well - at least if there are negative things he wishes to say to her anyway - and find an alternative vent for that. That way there can be no further confusion and this doesn't happen. he can still be a friend to Liz but you are no longer 'irritated' by her meddling, as she will have no ammo to meddle with.

[whatruckus]

Agreed. Typically, in my experiences with a girl texting my SO, the girl usually had ill intentions. However, not in this case with Liz. At least, not in a romantic way (I don't think). But, I will talk to my SO and tell him it's not a good idea to talk to her about our relationship anymore.

I still don't understand why she would tell him that, good intentions or not. That was supposed to be kept between us, because if I wanted him to know, I would've told him myself.

[Kapwned]

Is it possible she's attracted to him and is trying to bed him? You said she seems to thrive off of male attention and I assume she's a bit on the promiscuous side. While that is not inherently wrong, a person going out of their way to sabotage the integrity of a relationship in order to sneak into bed with one of the two is indeed wrong. One of my ex's best friends attempted that but she was very direct. She would flirt with him all the time and he always assumed it was harmless and innocent. Eventually the flirting got so bad people started to believe there really was something going on between the two of them and rumors started to spread. When confronted she would say she'd neither deny or confirm it, thus making the rumors worse and spread to the two of us. It was a part of her attempts to break down our relationship so that she could sleep with him. She was even honest about it. She even insisted that she didn't have feelings for him, she was just lusting for him. She'd do other stuff such as trying to convince us that we shouldn't be monogamous. I really hope that is not going on in this situation.

[Harlequin]

Honestly, it sounds like Liz lives for drama. Like, if nothing dramatic is happening of its own accord, she needs to make some. I had a friend like this.
She strikes me as very attention-starved, and while she may not be attracted to your S/O, I really feel like she's attracted to the idea of drama in your relationship. You and your s/o have been through a lot together and came out on top, which is obviously something Liz can't say for herself in her relationships. She doesn't have anyone's best interests in mind, and only wants to create problems where there are none. It gives her the drama she thrives off of, and she probably hoped it'd give her the attention she wants as well. If you and your s/o are fighting, but she's the only one who really knows the ins and outs of your relationship, then she'd be the obvious candidate to confide in.
If she's particularly starved for male attention, it doesn't even really have to be sexual or romantic in nature. It could just be attention itself. Any attention is still attention. If your s/o is giving her attention, in this case by having a conversation where she's ultimately the "concerned friend", it gives her some level of importance. She's hurting his feelings under the guise of just looking out for him. It's very self-sustaining, really. She creates the drama, and then reaps the rewards: his attention, and of course the drama.

I wouldn't tell her anything anymore, and I wouldn't believe a word she says anymore when it comes to anything involving your relationship. Just keep her at arm's length. That's what I ended up doing to my drama friend, and so far it's been very effective. She'll eventually find someone else to give her the attention and drama she needs.

[whatruckus]

Is it possible she's attracted to him and is trying to bed him? You said she seems to thrive off of male attention and I assume she's a bit on the promiscuous side. While that is not inherently wrong, a person going out of their way to sabotage the integrity of a relationship in order to sneak into bed with one of the two is indeed wrong. One of my ex's best friends attempted that but she was very direct. She would flirt with him all the time and he always assumed it was harmless and innocent. Eventually the flirting got so bad people started to believe there really was something going on between the two of them and rumors started to spread. When confronted she would say she'd neither deny or confirm it, thus making the rumors worse and spread to the two of us. It was a part of her attempts to break down our relationship so that she could sleep with him. She was even honest about it. She even insisted that she didn't have feelings for him, she was just lusting for him. She'd do other stuff such as trying to convince us that we shouldn't be monogamous. I really hope that is not going on in this situation.

I hope not.

[whatruckus]

Honestly, it sounds like Liz lives for drama. Like, if nothing dramatic is happening of its own accord, she needs to make some. I had a friend like this.
She strikes me as very attention-starved, and while she may not be attracted to your S/O, I really feel like she's attracted to the idea of drama in your relationship. You and your s/o have been through a lot together and came out on top, which is obviously something Liz can't say for herself in her relationships. She doesn't have anyone's best interests in mind, and only wants to create problems where there are none. It gives her the drama she thrives off of, and she probably hoped it'd give her the attention she wants as well. If you and your s/o are fighting, but she's the only one who really knows the ins and outs of your relationship, then she'd be the obvious candidate to confide in.
If she's particularly starved for male attention, it doesn't even really have to be sexual or romantic in nature. It could just be attention itself. Any attention is still attention. If your s/o is giving her attention, in this case by having a conversation where she's ultimately the "concerned friend", it gives her some level of importance. She's hurting his feelings under the guise of just looking out for him. It's very self-sustaining, really. She creates the drama, and then reaps the rewards: his attention, and of course the drama.

I wouldn't tell her anything anymore, and I wouldn't believe a word she says anymore when it comes to anything involving your relationship. Just keep her at arm's length. That's what I ended up doing to my drama friend, and so far it's been very effective. She'll eventually find someone else to give her the attention and drama she needs.

Thank you! I've definitely thought about this as well, but trying to convince my SO of this would probably be impossible. Again, those rose-colored-glasses.

[Petals]

She sounds like trouble. Just avoid discussing your relationship problems with her.

[Kapwned]

I guess all you can do is wait for it to happen again (if it does). And if it happens again then say something. Or better yet, say something to her. If she is doing this then she is not being a very good friend to you, and she needs to be aware of it and be aware that you're aware of it.

But really, I don't think it's an insane request to ask your SO that you keep your relationship issues between the two of you. I think it's a common request. I know I've had exes request that I not go ranting about our relationship to other people and instead come to them first. If I just needed to vent I just wrote in a blog and then deleted it later if I got over it.

And if he ever feels the need to talk to someone about his troubles and he needs an unbiased opinion he could always try out 7 Cups of Tea. It's a lovely website where you can anonymously vent about your problems to people who can listen and give advice.