Dislike living in each others' cities, what to do?

[flugelhorn]

tl;dr I don't like living in my boyfriend's city, he doesn't like living in mine, we don't want to move to another place together, we don't know what to do.

Long version: My boyfriend and I have been together for four years now, he's from London, England and I am from Toronto, Canada. We met in London, had a 2.5 month whirlwind romance before doing long distance for 16 months (we had three visits in that time). I moved to London in October 2012 on a work visa and stayed for the entire two years. As it was coming to an end, we essentially had two options: get married, or he gets a visa to come to Canada. We decided we didn't want to get married just because the government was telling us to so he got a visa to come to Canada.

Fast forward to the present, and we've been living in Toronto for almost six months and my boyfriend hates it. Some things I understand why he doesn't like it: he's had a hard time making friends, a hard time finding work (and the job he has, he doesn't like), we were living with my parents (it had been 14 months that we lived with my parents, his parents, or were travelling -- but that's another story), we moved here in the cold and dark winter, etc. Those things I can help change, or be supportive, but there are other things out of my control: he thinks the city is ugly, hates the meat and cheese, doesn't think it's a world city (well, compared to London, no!), thinks people aren't polite enough, thinks Canada as a country "doesn't matter", etc.

So, how did I enjoy living in London, you ask? Well, I had a job I loved, and good friends, but I was very homesick often and I never thought about settling there as my visa was two years and it was planned we would go back to Canada when that was done (we considered marriage at a point in time when I wanted to stay). At one point I thought I could stay forever but it's just too busy for me and I couldn't afford it. At one point I was incredibly unhappy, and to be honest, didn't feel like I had the support of my boyfriend (he couldn't understand why I was upset, would get frustrated, this made me more upset...) which he has since apologised for (and I think now, understands how I felt, as the tables have been turned). I sometimes wonder if I set my aspirations too high when I moved and that's why I was unhappy, but again, that's another story.

We moved to Toronto as my boyfriend said he wanted to "settle" (he's 28 by the way, not very long in the tooth I don't think) but I feel like we are more unsettled than ever. Ever since we've been here, my boyfriend has been a totally different person and it breaks my heart. He's talked about moving back since February but I asked him at that point to stay for six months. We also moved out of my parents' house as we thought that would do us good -- the first time in 14 months we have our own space -- but it hasn't really changed anything. In fact, my boyfriend talks about moving back more than ever. What really bothers me is that when he talks about going back, he doesn't ask if I want to go with him, I always seem to be an afterthought. He says he doesn't ask me as he "knows I would be unhappy there." I've said I would go back but I don't want to move to London - I would prefer a smaller city. Initially, he liked this idea, but now he only wants to go back to London. I also said I could go anywhere as long as I felt supported by him, something I didn't have the last time I lived there. He said he would support me, but it bothers me that I had to "ask", and he's not thinking about me. I feel like he's painted a picture of his future and I'm not in it.

Right now, we're very much in limbo. We keep saying "we're going to try this, this, and this and see if it gets better" but at the moment, it feels like we're on the last straw. A lot of the time when we talk about things he says things like "maybe if I had a different job, I would be happier", "maybe if we didn't move here in the winter, I would like it more." I say things like "maybe if I had had a better job in London, I would have enjoyed living there more", "maybe if my expectations weren't so high, I would have enjoyed it more." But at the end of the day, external factors can only do so much... surely if we really loved each other, these things wouldn't matter?! (Or are we too pragmatic? Or am I crazy?)

Also, on the topic of moving to another place, together: at the end of my UK visa I proposed the idea that we go to Australia for a year as we could both get the visas, I always wanted to live there, his brother lives there, etc. My boyfriend was adamantly against this and when I've brought it up again recently he's just so not up for it. I think we also both realise that we love the places we are from and we love our families and freinds. My best friend says that we in fact too well matched - we want so many of the same things in life, on different sides of the ocean. That's what is especially hard about the thought of us breaking up: we are so, so well matched but we just can't seem to find a place where we're both happy.

Anyways, this is either going to kill us or make us stronger. We feel like no matter what happens, one partner's happiness is going to have to go above the other's (which I know plenty of you have dealt with) and while the future used to be easy to see, together, right now it feels like we are looking at a future where we won't be together.

So, based on this very shortened version of events, do you have any advice? Have you and your partner been through this?

Thanks for reading!

[differentcountries]

Since you seem the more adjustable of the two of you, how about moving to Oxford or some of the smaller, quieter places near London?

[flugelhorn]

Since you seem the more adjustable of the two of you, how about moving to Oxford or some of the smaller, quieter places near London?

Thanks for your reply. I would consider this (we both love Bath) but I worry that I would have a hard time finding a job, and if we were working in London then the commute would be very long (the long commute was something I hated even when living within London!). My boyfriend was initially open to moving to Bath, or Lewes, but he also worries about finding work - unfortunately we both have "city" jobs, he works in communications and I work in marketing.

I think it's sad because neither of us is willing to commit to this, and it seems like the best option to reach common ground in our relationship... This is another "what if" I think about - I wish we had tried living in a smaller British city together, when I was there on my work visa but alas, you can't change the past!

[snow]

You don't have to fully commit to a city! There is couples on this forum that live in one country for some time and then move to the other country for some time. If that is what makes both of you happy, that could be an option. Of course jobs are important and I know that obviously it's not easy to find something when you move around all the time, but at this point, that seems like the only option. Stay in Canada for as long as his visa allows (I know nothing about Canadian visas, sorry!) and then move to London and stay as long as you can, move back and forth.

That's not something I would to do for myself, but maybe this is what you two need.

[Dziubka]

My husband and I have gone through something similar. We tried living in his country (and city), because he's very much attached to the place and never wanted to move away. But the economic situation in his country is so terrible, that it made no sense for us to stay. We moved back to my country and he hated it at first. He saw it as a temporary thing. Until he finishes his degree, until he can get some work experience, until whatever, but eventually and deep down he wanted to move back and was planning on it. It has been almost two years that we've been living here. He has a job that he likes, found great friends, is about to graduate and currently "going back" isn't really something he's thinking about.
Sometimes it takes a while to settle into a new place and six months isn't a lot of time to make a new home. When I first moved to my husband's city (before I even met him) I kinda disliked it as well. It took me well over half a year to discover things I liked.
So quite possibly it's a matter of time. Just like you should experience all four seasons with someone before marrying them, I think you should experience all four seasons in a city before saying that you absolutely don't want to live there. Especially if it's somewhere where winters are dark and depressing.
On the other hand, I never grew to like the city where I went to university. I lived there for a few years and the best I can say is that I'm indifferent about it. I never felt like it could be a home for me, even though I made great friends and had a good job. I think your SO should definitely stick it out for a year at least and genuinly try to find things he likes about Toronto. Maybe there are facebook groups for meeting new people or he can take up a hobby to make new friends, look for a better job. If despite his best efforts and after a year, he still doesn't like it, then you need to try to find a different solution.
Maybe you could live in a suburb of London (I have no idea if that makes sense)? A different big-ish city in the UK?
Zephii and her SO are planning to move back and forth between their two countries infinitely. I know this wouldn't be for me (I'm way too stingy to spend money on international moves every x years), but that's another option.

But at the end of the day, external factors can only do so much... surely if we really loved each other, these things wouldn't matter?! (Or are we too pragmatic? Or am I crazy?)

Unfortunately I think it doesn't always work out like that. If you move some place you really don't want to live, just because of your SO, you're most likely going to become resentful over time. I know, I would. I don't believe that love conquers all. Ultimately if you can't find a place you'd both be happy living at, then one of you is going to be unhappy.

[p_b82]

I think you are both being blinkered to say that there is only that type of work in London - Bath is a bit of an oddity, but Bristol is a much bigger city and has a lot more going on, and more work opportunities. Or there is the Cambridge corridor as well if you want to remain withing train distance of London for day trips etc (although the SW is only 1.5hrs...)

Either way, it sounds like your BF has made up his mind he doesn't want to be where he is, and unless he is willing to change that attitude, it appears he is going to find fault the whole time.

Not sure what I can suggest here though - but it does sound like the two of you need to find a compromise scenario or it appears you are going to fall out over this

[flugelhorn]

snow - Thanks for your reply. I have considered the possibility that I could take my work freelance so I could work from anywhere in the world... but it gets so much more complicated when kids are thrown into the equation (we don't have any, but would both like a family). But I moved around a lot as a kid, and I turned out alright. It would be hard to move back and forth all the time but yes, if we were willing to do it, it could work.

Dziubka - Glad to hear I'm not alone. I like the advice about trying it for four seasons, I will mention that to my SO. I do feel like he hasn't given Toronto a fair chance but he is so, so stubborn. Initially, he was great at going out, meeting people, and he was playing football once a week but then he broke his thumb and now the season is over.

If you move some place you really don't want to live, just because of your SO, you're most likely going to become resentful over time. I know, I would. I don't believe that love conquers all. Ultimately if you can't find a place you'd both be happy living at, then one of you is going to be unhappy.

^ This sums up perfectly how we are feeling right now.

p_b82 - Yes, it's a bit of a London-centric view, isn't it?! I guess we won't know until we try. I agree, I think he's made his mind up. He says he is waiting for "something to happen so that he likes it here" but isn't being very open minded (and I get it, it's hard to not compare it to where you're from, and he texts his family & friends every day).

[R&R]

I have actually been partially in this situation. I was the one to move 3,000 miles from the East Coast to the West Coast of the US. I found a good job, I made good friends. However, I was VERY unhappy because I hated the area. The culture shock was awful. I'm usually pretty flexible and can adjust to most things but I just couldn't stay living in this place.

He had young kids and couldn't move to the East Coast (where he actually wants to live) unless his ex-wife agreed to move also. She has family on the East Coast and finally agreed. I was on a second job interview back home when she changed her mind because she met a guy. My heart was so set on moving home and I did. About 6 months later we started divorce proceedings. He is a wonderful man and any woman would be lucky to have him and we did love each other. However, we couldn't get past the fact that I was miserable there and that he couldn't move for at least another 12 years when his youngest graduates high school.

Where you live is going to be a huge aspect. If someone makes the sacrifice to move somewhere where they truly aren't happy, resentment can start and it can ruin the relationship. I hope you are able to find some sort of compromise where you both can be happy in one location.

[Chris516]

I am going to be quite frank, even though I am American. Going on my experience of having lived in London as a youngster(9-11yrs.-old; 1976-78), and the pictures' of Toronto that I have seen.

You both have equal disgust for the other's home city. I only lived in London, because my mother wanted to live in England for five years. I hated living in London. Even though Toronto has the Sky Dome baseball stadium, and no criticism of late actor John Candy who was part owner in the CFL's Toronto Argonauts. London and Toronto are both dumps. Both you n' your boyfriend complain about the other's city. Why are you staying together.

'differentcountries' has an excellent suggestion. Try Leeds, or Liverpool, too.

[flugelhorn]

R&R - Thanks for your reply, and sharing your story. I can definitely see myself in your post. I definitely worry if I move back to a smaller place in the UK that the resentment would set in, even if I could find a job/ friends/ community. It's so, so hard to let go though. I feel the same way about my SO- anyone would be lucky to have him. I feel so lucky to have him. Last night I was crying because I've always been so myself with him, it's hard to imagine us not being together... part of me would go with him. (As cheesy as that sounds.) But I love him so much, and if that means letting him go, I guess I will have to accept that.

Chris516 - Thanks for reply. Sorry to hear you hated living in London, despite that, I would encourage you to go back for a visit. As much as living in London wasn't for me, I still look forward to one day visiting again. Toronto definitely isn't a paradise by any stretch of the imagination, but I would encourage you to come visit in the summer months. You could even come to our baseball stadium, which sadly isn't called the SkyDome anymore. My boyfriend and I are staying together because there are a lot of things we love about each other that doesn't have to do with the so-called dumps we're from... but, as this thread indicates, we're thinking of maybe ending our relationship and going back to our respective dumps (as you call them) sooooooo I'll keep ya posted!

[BlueCat]

I feel this is a situation where I need to say that just because two people love and care about one another, doesn't mean it's always going to work out. Some friends of mine who were long distance who as far as I'm aware really loved one another, simply couldn't make it work because neither felt they fit in in the other's country despite trying to live in each one. They each missed things back home. So in a way, while they wanted similar things, they were things that were pulling them in different directions. There's a difference between sticking something out for the relationship, and something that's going to make you unhappy for a long time. I'm not trying to be a downer, you may find a compromise, but you forcing someone to live somewhere they're unhappy is never a good solution. Even when there's potential for the person to like the place, often they won't let themselves have the chance to like it (if that makes sense).

[differentcountries]

If you both sit down and draw up a list of things you would like to have in/near that place, and you make up all list of places in Canada or England that could be fitting (could also be in a third country), it might be easier to determine if the two of you have it in you to find a compromise. Another solution could be to simply not close the distance, but rather find work that is flexible and allow one or both of you to travel.

[Zephii]

I read the original post, but not the replies, apologies if I missed something.

You sound like a (not significantly) younger version of me.

Obi and I did roughly the same thing, and had the same issues. It didn't make sense to move to a third place because family and friends. But he was adamant he never wanted to permanently live in Sydney, and I tried to love Vancouver. But far out man. No.

Anyway, I can tell you about our solution. It's probably not viable for you, it's pretty rare in the LDR scheme of things were people are very much "someone has to move, the end" but here it is: We simply agreed to never settle.

So, we've done 4 months in Oz, a year and a half in Canada, back to Australia and we're coming up on five years here now, and once he gets his citizenship here we will move back to Canada, where I will work on getting my citizenship (4ish years). At the point in time I get mine - possibly the very next day after it's granted - I'm booking tickets back to Oz.

Most people tell me "oh, once your kids are in school you'll change your mind" or "if you buy a house you love you'll never leave" but they don't understand my level of detest for Canada. Sorry all you Canadians, but I just don't like it. (I have a list why lol). The only way we will ever settle permanently in one country is if he decides we will stay in Australia forever. And I do know two other couples who make the same thing work; both Canstralians. One couple is our age with the same amount of kids as us (foetus included, hah) and the other is Obi's grandma's friend. They raised their children in this fashion, and are still happily migrating every few years, even though they are past retirement. If they can do it, I sure as hell can.

Why this works for us? It works because I need to know that I don't have to do it forever. I can hold my own. I am strong and can carry a fair share of what we call "the burden" (being away from our land/family/friends) but I'm most certainly not going to carry the whole burden, alone, for the rest of our marriage. No way. I matter too. Knowing when it will be over gives me goals and hope. It is easier for me to be a good person in the short term, if I don't feel doomed.
It works because the kids will get both their families, both their cultures.
It works because we're not terribly materialistic. We don't have a lot of stuff, don't need a lot of stuff.
It works because since I moved out of home I have moved house every two years. (At first it was every year, but I'm slowing down a little!) I get bored with my surroundings.
It works because although we will inevitably miss some major life events for family and friends, with good planning we can be around when we are needed most. So we can support our sisters when each start families. We can be there for elderly grandparents etc.
There are some great things about both countries, we can take advantage of that.

There are drawbacks. Like, it's expensive. I know we will spend a lot of money on flights etc. But then, we will with visits regardless. So far we haven't had to ship household stuff, our families have been great about storing things. But next time I know we will need a crate, because babies have a lot of stuff and we'll still need it all. That and my sister (who looked after all my stuff last time) is buying a tiny unit, so that puts paid to that!
There will be times where the kids won't want to go when it is time to do so, especially once they are teens. I see that.
The school year in Canada is Sept to July or something? I can't remember. And our school year here lines up with the actual calendar year. So that will be tricky.
Sometimes I do feel sad that I have to leave. I am very aware we are more than half way through our stay in Sydney. I dread going back, and my family does too. But I know when I'm there, I'll have the best thing to look forward to - coming home!
It's also sometimes hard to make friends locally because I don't want to get attached to people and have more people to miss. It's stupid, but I do get that occasionally. It's worked out alright though, because my closest mum friend is moving to the states the same year we will move to Canada. At least we will be on the same landmass!


Anyway, now that we've been in Australia a while, Obi has a job he loves that pays far more than he'd get at home, he's finally made friends of his own etc he's much happier than he was last time. And I know that when I was in Canada a huge part of why it sucked was that my job sucked, I had no friends and the rain is bloody endless. Well the rain will be the same! But next time I won't be working a shit job, and in time (I see that it can take years now, and I'll have to hang in there!) I know I will make my own friends.

The point of this long ramble is look at all your options. Even the crazy ones, like living in both places forever. Look for where you can compromise. What are you willing to give up in exchange for what you need? And what does he have that he can barter with? True compromise, some famous dude once said, is where both people are at a state of comfortable unhappiness.

[differentcountries]

We are looking into how he can learn language, move and work here, but at the same time I am also learning his language and look into how I might do work there, thinking perhaps I can have periods of working there and bring him (I am already used to study on visits). And every thinkable holiday exept Christmas eve will be spent in his country. Long term plans is to buy a "summer flat " in his country. If we have kids they need to be in both countries a lot to learn the languages, they will need to get a bit nomadic to do that even if we will have a base. That is why to me, there is closing the distance yes, but you still never stop being long distance.

[lucybelle]

If it gives you any hope, my SO HATED the USA the first time he lived here with me. When we went back to his country I thought it was a permanent move. It was hard, but I'd rather be anywhere in the world with my SO than in my hometown without him.

Six months after being back in his country he did a 180. He wanted nothing more than to move back to the USA! Of course right as I was settling in to his country.

After three years in his country we're back in the USA. We both miss his country and at the same time are glad to be back. I've told him that he needs to get citizenship and then we can go wherever he wants. (A third country is a current possibility)

Bottom line- my SO makes me happy no matter where I am. Maybe your SO will be more understanding now that he knows what it's like to be the foreigner.