Need advice: Round 2

[KyleTheMan]

I closed the other thread and didn't notice. It was a mistake. Yeah, that was it! Totally! So here we go again! I would love some advice! I'm happy with Lily but i think things can always be better! I'm a man willing to do anything it takes for that! Some constructive advice would be appreciated!

Original Post:

I'm not sure if this is worth making a thread for. Usually, i would have just made a post on my blog but perhaps it'll be fine to make a thread!

Me and my SO had a little fight today and it was kinda strange to me. I never thought she would react so strongly about a simple question. You see, these past few weeks, Lily (My SO, that's what i refer to her around here) has been really stressed lately. She's been working on her translation job every single day and she's been going to university classes and doing projects and school work. Basically she has no free time at all. The little bit of free time she has she spends it talking to me.

But today i thought of having fun with her! Lets make our chat extra fun today! We usually fight over where we will live when we get married. Its supposed to be a topic we can talk about easily right? But we always fight whenever the topic is brought up. It never fails. So! I decided to be extra sensitive with her! I'll show her we can get discuss this topic without fighting!

She's thinking on getting a new job and that's where i decided it was the perfect time to strike! I asked her what does she think this job will mean for our future? She got excited and started talking about it! Then she tells me that after a year or so of experience she would get a job in the west doing the same! That's where things turn sour!

I started looking for job posts in Puerto Rico about her new job just to see if they offer some over here! Aha! I found one! So i send her the link. She tells me "Ummm... you know, we dont need to limit ourselves to a PR job!". Hmmmm... so i asked her what she meant! She said "I should have my green card when i get married to you! So we can get a US job instead! We dont need to wait until i'm an official citizen!". Woah! I was happy she researched all that! I usually let her do most of the research, i research on this stuff too but i decided to ask her "Woah you researched this? XD". That's where things turn bad!

"You think i'm like those Thai women, don't you?" she said "You think i want to marry you for citizenship just to leave you once i get it, right?". I had no idea what happened there. Then she gets angry and starts accusing me of thinking that she's like those women and how can i be so insensitive and how come we can never talk about these things.

You see, she refuses to learn even basic level Spanish and she doesn't want to live here with me. She's made that really clear. She expects me to find a job in the US and move there and help her find a job there despite all the benefits we have staying here (Like my parents and their business for one).

She tells me living there has been a dream she's always had ever since she was a little girl. She has also shown signs of thinking Puerto Rico is some sort of 3rd world country despite the fact we're US territory and our economy and lifestyle being very similar. The only differences being we speak Spanish and we love eating White Rice with Beans. Oh, and a nice Mofongo on the side goes really well! XD

I love her and i don't like making her feel bad! Oh and about her translation job, it has flexible hours! She lives with her mom and she can decide to work as much as she wants! But she always decides to work several times a day. She deliberately drains all her free time. I think the stress is getting to her and i want her to relax.

Basically:

1) How can i get her to relax? How can i make her feel happier despite her lack of free time? I've tried a lot, lots of advice on how she needs to take some free days but she wont listen. She's stubborn. I've tried poems and lots of little cute and silly gifts that she's liked. But she still feels stressed. Which reminds me that she got angry again later that day because she took a joke completely the wrong way!

2) I need your opinions. Would you move to a country just because your SO has always dreamed of living there? Despite logic? No matter how hard it would make our lives? No matter how much better off we would be where we are?

3) Finally, this is sort of unrelated. But how can i get her to have a little more privacy? She lives with her mom and her dad died a long time ago. She doesnt have her own room. So this is pretty much the reason why we never voice chat or video chat. No privacy and she refuses to do anything about it. Stubborn as always! A little more privacy would open the doors for us to do more interesting things like the previously mentioned activities. Which in turn, should help her relieve stress and make us feel closer! Two birds with one stone!

Thanks all! I apologize for the enormous post! I need to go study now! But i'll check in, in a while! Thanks!

[Zephii]

Alrighty! Let's have a shot at this *rubs hands together*

1) I can't quite remember exactly where Lily is from, but if I remember right it's one of those Asian countries with the stupidly-high work ethic. So working herself half to death could be what's considered "normal". She simply might not know another way to be, and that's why she wont take days off. Lowering stress is a tough one though. Do you think she'd meditate or do yoga with you on webcam or something? Those things are both really great for stress.
Other than that, at a distance there's not a lot of practical help to do, the best you can aim for is to remain aware of her stress level and act accordingly.

2) This one is hard. Obi and I have only just started to be able to have the "what country" talk without someone getting hurt or angry. From day one he told me "I will never leave my family, friends and country for you." and that's a hard ultimatum to swallow. But as time passed he's grown up a lot and realised that there's no reason I should give up everything just for him, when he wouldn't do the same for me and we benefit equally from this relationship. That's the key: We both want this, so we both have to make sacrifices to make it work.
So we compromise. We're not going to ever permanently settle in one country or the other. Canada will be our "main base", but there will be years spent off-shore, and thousands of dollars dedicated to seeing my family and friends back home. We'd be better off financially if I would just let go. But money doesn't make you happy.
But no, I wouldn't make a final move to a country just for my SO because it makes a lot of resentment.

I get the feeling that someone has accused her of just wanting citizenship or a ticket out of her own country, or that she's insecure and questioning her own motives. (Which is perfectly normal, especially in a relationship where the couple have not met.) I have to ask, has she ever been to the US? Or is this just a dream based off of too many American movies? Perhaps you can both agree to see each other's countries and where ever in the US she aims to live before making a final decision, rather than just blindly choosing one place over the other? Or perhaps some other compromise? There are always options.

Tell her you want her dreams to come true but you're not willing to just sacrifice your own. Discuss what things you both MUST have, what you'd like, and what you're willing to give up. Negotiate.
She's asking an awful lot from you, so you need to know what you need too and look after yourself. Be fair and generous, but don't give so much that you're shooting yourself in the foot.

3) I would ask why she doesn't want to do this, because to me it seems natural that she would want private time with you. Perhaps she is more scared than stubborn. As long as you're not doing anything sexual, is it a big deal that her mum might overhear or see? Wouldn't it be better if they got used to your existence? I assume you're hiding the relationship, but you's could say you're just friends - who's going to know otherwise? Perhaps if you show your gf that there is nothing to fear she'll want to have more private time with you?

[Karringtyn]

I am bumping this back up so I can reply when I get time later and it doesn't get lost.

I am glad Kyle you have decided to repost. Everyone deserves to be "heard",,...I will give a proper reply when I get the time later..

[KyleTheMan]

Zephii! Thank you for the excellent post! I'll address your advice one by one!

1) Lily is from Thailand. She tells me there are women like that over there a lot that marry for citizenship. These women are extremely looked down upon in their culture. To the point where kissing an foreign man as a Thai woman is seen as repulsive and disgusting. There's a huge social stigma based on this. When i visit her next year, i'm not allowed to kiss her or to show any kinds of public affection aside from holding hands just because she wishes to avoid being looked down upon. So she's really sensitive to any hints of being accused of this. Of course, i never ever think this of her. She's an amazing woman, she's very loving and kind and sweet. She's not the type to do these things. But i guess its one of her deepest insecurities and she cant help it.

I've tried several things to help her relax. I made a video of me playing with my dog for her. She hasn't seen it since she's really busy. I make her cute little gifts every now and then. It makes her happy. I suppose that's all i can really do. We don't voice or webcam since she has no privacy to do so. Her mom is with her in the living room nearly everyday and she's afraid of being heard speaking English (even though she said she's afraid her mom would think she's so good at it... what? She's not good with complements XD).

2) I see. She's never been to the US or any western country so i'm not sure where that dream of her comes from. She also tells me she loves Italy and the Vatican and such places. I've been reading her favorite book (Angels and Demons by Dan Brown) and Italy is one of the places in the book. She's been a huge book reader since she was a little girl. So i'm guessing that's where those dreams come from.

She got angry at me one day when i decided to discuss her dream in detail and i added the whole reality aspects. You know, the costs, where we'll live, how long until we can get enough money to buy a house there, the immigration stuff, the jobs we'll need, ect. She got angry and depressed when i talked about those things. She was like "Don't try and put down my dreams with your reality!". All i did was try and take her dreams seriously enough to discuss these things.

Ever since "day 1" of when we first started discussing this, we decided to get married in PR. We both know it'll be better for us. She even says the benefits are too good sometimes. We'll get married and we'll have my parents support and help as we settle down and get our jobs and such. If anyone of us gets losses our job, we have my parent's family business as a back up job. Not to mention my parents generosity. They always say "As long as we're alive, you two wont ever be missing anything from your lives". Which is to say, they'll help us with anything and everything we need. I mean, that's an amazing benefit. Especially for me and Lily who would be starting our lives together. I don't intend to stay here forever, but a few years here with my parents and Lily would do us some good.

But Lily has always been opposed to this. She refuses to learn even some basic Spanish. She doubts her ability to land even a decent job in PR because she really doubts PR is like the US (We really are! US territory! We just speak Spanish and love rice and have a bastard governor!). She once mentioned how she thinks Thai Universities are better than PR Universities despite the fact she's never been to any western country. Not sure how that's related but she's always tried to skip PR entirely. Encouraging me to move to New York and wait for her there so we can get married there instead. Whenever i try to negotiate this with her she accuses me of being weak. "Don't be negative! You can do it! Landing a job and moving to NY will be easy for you! Be positive!".

What do i want? Despite the fact that i live in a Spanish speaking country, i've always been naturally better at English. I would love to live in an English speaking country. But that would be something i achieve in the future, you know? A distant goal to chase after. There's nothing wrong with living here with Lily, there are a lot of things going for us if we stay here even for just 3 years. I would love it if she just learns some Spanish and gets excited about being with me. But she always talks about the US as this fairy tale land of dreams. I have to remind her sometimes "It doesn't matter where we are, as long as we're together, right?" which she usually denies. "That's just an ideal, Kyle. In reality, its very important where we live!".

3) We've been a couple for 6 months now. We've told each other's parents about us within a week of becoming a couple. Both her parents and mine reacted very positively and supportive. Her mom's quite the joker too, each time one of my packages arrives, she makes it into a little surprise for Lily. But yeah! The reason she wont talk or webcam is because she's afraid of being heard speaking English. She's really self-conscious about her English accent even though she speaks it just fine (We talked once when her mom went to sleep early). That and she says she doesn't like talking to a camera. So she wont film me any videos of her in private despite the fact that i bought her a camera for that purpose (She's never used it, i'm not sure what she did with the camera by now). As for a webcam, i'm not sure. I'm guessing her mom is near by and i might see her if she turns it on. That is, if she had a webcam. She wont buy one despite the fact she just bought this amazing PC. She usually says "My mom? She's right next to me!". Not sure if that's literally next to her but probably!

She hasnt had her own room since her dad died when she was little. She sleeps in her mother's room to keep her company. She always tells me she doesn't want her mom to be lonely. I mean, that's completely understandable. I understand her completely. Her best friend (A Thai woman like her) tells me that Lily is a very shy woman. Too shy to order a meal at a restaurant so her friend has to do it when they go out. Not sure how more privacy will help with that but privacy will open the doors for more activities between us! I'll get to see her and hear her voice more often! I mean, that's an amazing thing for our relationship already!

So basically there is no reason for her to worry about her mom catching us talking or webcamming or anything! Its just her insecurities running rampart and i've tried to reassure her and to raise her self-esteem enough to try it. As for the sexual stuff, haha, i mean i'm no pervert, lets get that out of the way! I'm a perfect gentleman! I would never make her do anything she would not be ready for! She knows this really well! Of course, we sometimes fool around via IM (If you can call that fooling around XD) and i wouldn't mind being a bit more intimate than that but totally! You know what i mean! I would never! XD

[Zephii]

I know what you mean You seem like a great guy.

Unfortunately, see seems very immature and sheltered - and appears to be happy that way. I don't see why you have to go to the US and wait for her. It's her dream, if it's so damn easy, tell her to go there and wait for you. :P (Yes I know it's legally easier for you, but c'mon). Perhaps once all the red tape was in her hands she'd realise how big a deal this stuff really is and that you're not squashing her dreams, you're being practical.

The other thing is.. she doesn't want her mum to be lonely, so much so that she'll sleep in the same room, but she's willing to go to a different country and (I assume) leave her behind?

Sadly, I think that you're going to spend a lot of time waiting for Lily to grow up. That's not a bad thing really if you're patient, but you'll likely be long distance quite a bit longer than necessary.

[KyleTheMan]

I see! That's what i thought, Zephii, but i didnt want to believe it. I was hoping her attitude was normal and that i was over-analyzing things.

So she's immature. Is there anyway i can encourage her to start growing up? You say she's happy that way so... it might be better to wait until she does it on her own. It reminds me of today. I had a bit of a mental breakdown and haha, it was a mess. Instead of being supportive she got angry at me for being weak. As always. She always tells me how her man needs to have tons of muscle and needs to me emotionally strong.

I dont have lots of muscle. I'm a skinny 163 pounder of a man. That's after 8 months of intense exercising and healthy eating to attain. I was at 280 pounds starting this year. Well how is this info relevant to the conversation? Well i feel happy being the skinny guy. The only reason i'm trying to gain muscle is to make her happy. But that requires eating a lot, which puts those 8 months of hard work at risk. Hence the micro breakdown and Lily's anger towards it.

Its always been like that. She asks for something and i always try my best to give it to her. But when i ask for something... its always ignored or i have to fight and wait a long time for it. I remember a month ago. I almost broke up with her and THATS when she finally sent me some pictures. It was ridiculous that i have to go that far for something so simple.

She always tells me that when we get married, her mom will go live on her sister's house so she wont be lonely. Yeah.

So lately i've been feeling like... yeah, i know i'm the man in the relationship. I'm supposed to be strong and supportive and so very manly. But i'm not perfect, no one is. Sometimes i need some support from her and i can never get it. I have to summon the strength to take whatever issue i'm dealing with and just swallow it down and keep it away in a bottle. Whenever she has a problem, i'm always there and i always listen and i'll always be there. I remember i helped her with a 3D modeling assignment. She was swamped with work. She could not possibly have enough time to do it herself. So i took up tutorials and i did the project for her. She got a perfect score.

What i need now is an inspiration story of sorts! How long do women take to mature? Do you know anyone in Lily's same mindset? How long did they take to mature? Why? Haha, i need something to look forward to!

[Edit]: We just had another fight due to that breakdown of mine. I'm not supposed to feel that way apparently. Especially not when she is stressed. Can this relationship become even more unsatisfying? Who knows! Maybe it'll get so unsatisfying that it'll go into NEGATIVE numbers and it will turn into super satisfying. I can only hope.

[Silviar]

International LDR carries an extra set of hassles because of all of the extra, official work involved, as well as the culture issues, the sometimes extreme time differences... it's not easy, is it? I think it's great you two are navigating the insanity.

I think you need some time to figure out if her cultural differences are ones you can handle. I mean, you talk about maturity, and so on... but the fact is, since you haven't met in person, she might actually be even more mature when you meet her in person. What a person does to maintain their life sometimes explains a lot when you see it in person versus just hearing about it. And I don't mean that as a criticism - it's unfortunately part of the deal, yanno?

Also, since you're a US territory, I don't know if this thought process bleeds over there, but here in the US, we tend to be really hard, efficient sort of workers, generally speaking. Like, we'll work hard, don't take breaks, but quitting time is quitting time unless you're independent businessperson or have your finger in a lot of pies. But I've noticed in Japan, for example, they have 50-60 hour work weeks, and they talk about how hard they work... but they work at this very even, often not hurried pace. So, arguably, I don't know if they do more work than US workers, or simply do the same amount of work in a longer timeframe. I was always amused by the long line of workers who'd put in that many hours, and then have 6 smoke breaks throughout the day, thereby wasting at least an hour, when I lived there.

My point with the explanation is this: we are all products of our culture, and despite how it works for them , you may find the way she handles and does things frustrating, ridiculous, or even plain stupid. The pictures you wanted may have been difficult for her to get around doing mentally because of her culture. My point is, Kyle, you gotta decide if you can live with it, and keep adapting, or not. You often complain about how she does this and that, or doesn't do this and that, and I can't tell you if it's a Thai thing or a Lily thing, but I think you need to either man up and figure out if you can handle the Lily circus, or go find another event.

You've got a few extra hoops to work through because of language barrier, and of course the cultural hoops barrier. Even though my SO and I are from English speaking countries, we still have cultural barriers between us - some obvious and some not so. Part of being in a relationship is finding a way to communicate about it that works for you. If it's speaking calmly, or having a fight and then getting it out, then you'll see what works for you two as a couple, no matter where you're from.

What you want for her may not be possible. Just keep up the good work with the patience and being a good partner. There's hard times and good times, but they're all times you travel together, mate, and they'll shape you in ways for the rest of your life.

[Zephii]

I know this is the wrong thing to say but.. You can do so much better. Why are you wasting yourself on her when there are so many lovely single girls who need a good man? Hell, if Obi wasn't the man of my dreams I'd be hitting on you right now. Just sayin'

I don't know how long it would take her.. I mean usually women mature faster than men. What happens if she never grows up? What happens if growing up, for her, requires a catalyst? I get the impression that while some of this is defiantly immaturity, the other half is culture and you're not going to get rid of that. Gender role expectations are likely one of those things. My shrink told me that the chemicals in a woman's brain are not fully developed until the age of 19. I don't know how true that is though, but that should help guess when she "grows into herself" mentally.

She has all these expectations of you, but perhaps it's time she realised that the typical "strong" man she is attracted to likely appears strong to the outside world only because he has a wife he can go to in his weak moments. Someone to take his sadness, encourage him, heal him and push him back out into the fray. No one is "strong" all the time. It doesn't happen. And it shouldn't. It isn't healthy. Hell, this is the 21st century. You're allowed to cry, you're allowed to be skinny and enjoy fashion and work in something other than physical labouring jobs - you're even allowed to cleanse your skin and use conditioner in your hair now. Being a man is new and improved!

Perhaps you can find some good books on gender roles and send them to her? Most of them are crap, but there are a couple of good ones on the market that back themselves up with science and might help her understand a few things.

[KyleTheMan]

Thank you, Zephii. I know what you're trying to say and it means a lot to me. Sometimes I wonder why I bother myself with her. I guess that's just how love works.

However we just had a big fight since I decided to discuss this with her. The whole privacy thing and the where to move thing evolved into a huge argument. Right now she's at the point where shes doubting her love, her trust and her faith in me. All I wanted was to make sure we're both happy. This relationship always felt 90% me and 10% her. Now it feels like we're on the verge on a break up and I'm left wandering what did I do wrong? Perhaps I didn't do enough? Maybe I did too much. I'm not sure.

I discussed everything I felt. All my desires and hopes for the relationship and this is the result. She got so angry at me. What did I do?

[edit]: I'll add the details later. I gotta go to culinary school now.

[KyleTheMan]

Sorry. Double post. Posting thing on my iPod Touch.

[Zephii]

Aww *hugs* from what I can tell as a biased forum poster - this is not your fault. All that has happened is you tried to get your needs met too and now she's angry that it's not all for her. I'm so sorry, because that's not how it should be. It's supposed to be good and loving and fulfilling for both of you. I hope she comes around and realises how great a guy you are, and how good she will feel once she's an equal contributor in the relationship.
We're here for you if you need to vent or cry or anything.

[Čternity]

Kyle, it strikes me as sad that whenver you talk about what you want in the relationship her response is to hurt you. Saying things like she's doubting her love, her trust and faith in you. It really seems quite manipulative and immature. My 9 year old son tries this on sometimes and you have to call their bluff on it or they have it all over you.

It seems to me Lily has very strong ideas on what she expects from you yet when you have your own expectations of her in return that is unacceptable. Have you said - "Lily, you expect many many things of me. Can I expect nothing in return, not even a discussion, about what I want in our relationship?"

I don't think Lily copes well with any sort of change. It seems to frighten her. Perhaps she has made promises to her mother about where she will live and the privacy thing so she can't back down? She likes to be in control because maybe it is how she feels safe. Yet it seems so one sided and unfair.

The ability to communicate clearly and compromise together is key for any long term relationship not just an LDR one. I think it is fantastic that you are starting to find your voice and tell her clearly what you want from the relationship. It is normal to expect resistance and anger, stemming from fear and a loss of control, when someone has had it their own way for a long time.

I would keep telling her what it is you want, and why, and listening to her in return. The privacy thing and where to live are serious issues. Probably very scary for her. Both challenge her current way of thinking and what she has her mind set on for a long time. Maybe go back to the common ground you agree on together before tackling things that you disagree on.

Your life is really coming together with the restaurant and study and I can see things really taking off for you. Not many people can have six years out of life and turn it around with such a bright future. WELL DONE! It would be wonderful if Lily was comfortable discussing your concerns and wishes for the relationship. Keep talking to her. Don't be intimidated and back off when she says hurtful things.

[Zephii]

Wow, Eternity... You're really good at this

[Čternity]

Wow, Eternity... You're really good at this

Thanks Zephii. Just trying to help.

[Mio]

Hey! I am from PR too! My boy moved here, and he likes the rice and beans too, lol. Anyway, Lily is a bit of a dreamer, wich there is nothing wrong with that, the only problem is when this dreams affect your reality. I think she has high expectations about a life in the USA. Meaning that, for her to get a green card at the moment will take her about 5 to 10 years, there is a waiting list for your application to be processed for certain countries. So at the moment, and I don't mean to say is the right way, her only way to get to the USA anytime soon is if you get a K1 and marry. To get a work visa is very difficult too, our immigration lawyer explained every little detail, and it is difficult. Then, just to go to NY and land a job is not too easy too, the living expenses too. Tell her to check it out, is not an easy taks!

But enough of the legal part. Now down to the emotional, I agree with Zephii and Eternity, she needs to grow up. And if she don't start acting like a responsible person and is able to have a decent conversation with you, I don't see a good future in this. She needs to communicate in a good way, not blame you or giving you a fist about your feelings, etc. She needs to realize that you have feelings too and that you are part of the relationship aswell. I think you musht talk with her, in a calm way, ask her where she thinks this relationship is going, where she sees herself in the relationship, and if you 2 are not in the same boat, the best way is to look for somebody that will appreciate the relationship in the same level you appreciate your relationship. It will be fair for both of you.

Best wishes chico!