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**Lilly9886** · November 25, 2012, 04:16 AM

I think the healthsystem, the schools, security and the job opportunities (and money) are a good reasons for me and my bf to want to live in Europe, and not in Mexico (long-term).

But we are both in our 20ies and I think it's easier to move away from a country when you don't exactly "have" anything yet (house, car, ...)

When there are children involved, I would think about their options first.. where would they have a better life, education, health-care? The same goes for his kids (in your case) and I also think it depends on the age of the kids.. if his kids are already grown-up, what is holding him in the US?

I hope you figure out the best way for all of you!

**Carenza LaRue** · November 25, 2012, 04:36 AM

thanks Lilly...

thing is.... he is 55..... in the Netherlands you can't find a job when you're that age...
he has a young son, 12 years old who depends on him.
the boy is autistic somewhat, so my SO doesn't want to leave him.

we talked about this and we decided it would be better if I joined him in New Jersey... he lives close to Philadelphia and it would be easier for me to find a job there than it would be the other way around. I am 'a tad' younger than he is, so it wouldn't be a problem really.
with this mind set, I agreed on moving to him

but I never took things like health insurance and education into consideration..... because blinded by love....and so on.

I don't know nothing about daily life there, I am about to find out as I will visit him in January. but seeing 'daily life' isn't really showing how it really works and I am afraid my friend in the Netherlands is right.
Surely, I will bring this up with my SO... but I am afraid he is going to think I am backing off... I told my ladyfriend about my worries.... and she said... yeah well, he is used to this so it's only natural he will think you're backing off... because he doesn't know how these things are well arranged in Europe.
(her words, not mine)

think I am going to make a list of pros and cons and discuss that with Rob.

**Oldblighty** · November 25, 2012, 04:48 AM

It is daunting even contemplating how one's life will change when you move. I too am concerned about health insurance once I move to the states. Here in England we have the NHS and even though it has its faults it's comforting to know it's there should I need it. I'm hoping once my husband is employed at the company he's working for then I will be covered under his health insurance.

It is a big decision to make, moving thousands of miles away to be with someone you love, because at the end of the day it's not just about that, it's all other things you have to think about & contend with! I think this is more so the older you get too.

I will say that when I talk to my hubby about the move and what I will have to do, he doesn't understand the lengths I will have to go too. He just comes back & says, it will all be ok!! It's ok for him, he's not the one moving & having to organise everything.....Then again maybe he reacts that way so he doesn't stress me out even more than I am...

**THINK2MUCH** · November 25, 2012, 05:02 AM

I agree with Lilly9886, this is something that you have to think over very carefully.

I am 37 -and same as you, I still have serious doubts about moving over. Just like she says (and as you seem to have noticed too) the older we are, the harder this decision is to make.
I would advise that you start your research and not make any move until you're absolutely sure that you're really willing to even try to immigrate.

The immigration process to the US is quite complicated and sometimes long. For what I've read at the USCIS (Immigration department) website, it gets even harder when there are children involved.

You also have your job to think about, in order to legally work in the US, you'd have to either become a resident or your future employer would have to file a petition before you went there so you could get a work visa. You should also find out if the city where you're planning on living has a job market for whatever your career is. Anyway, the process to do most of these things is not quick at all, so in case you couldn't find a job before you moved there, you'd have to get married and your SO would have to provide for you and your daughter while you got "resident status".

I guess you have to start by having a long conversation with SO, and you have to make sure that he understands and agrees to whatever might be required of him to have you there.

I think it'd be important that you checked schools that your daughter might be able to attend, and ask him to get and provide you with information about his healthcare plan.

For you to take your daughter abroad, your ex would have to agree (I'm not sure how difficult that might be). I don't know either how close the relation between him and your daughter is, but you might want to think twice before you take her so far away from her father.

Once you start considering all this, you might change your mind about "closing the distance" by moving to a different country, especially the US.
You might do research on your own but maybe it'd be best if you could find an immigration lawyer so you could get professional advice on the matter.

My viewpoint -as you can tell, is not very optimistic (sorry about that) but don't let it get you down. OK?

I sincerely hope things do work out for you!!!

**Oldblighty** · November 25, 2012, 06:24 AM

THINK2MUCH makes some good points on the matter. I do think it's good to make a pro & cons list, although I would worry that there would be more cons than pros considering you'll have so much to go through & organise. I do think it makes it harder when children are involved, up rooting them from school, family etc! Not an easy thing to do. I am lucky that I don't have anything holding me back but I'm still bricking it.....so I do understand the difficulties you face!

You definitely need to discuss this with your SO, but I'm just concerned he won't truly understand or fathom the difficulties that lay ahead. Not because he is insensitive to you or what your planning to do but because he's not the one that's having to move.

**Lilly9886** · November 25, 2012, 06:30 AM

What I wanted to add, about your daughter.. I think 5 is still a good age to move wherever you want! Considering that she will learn the language in no time and will adjust just fine!! I do think that children are very flexible in that area, and it is my opinion, that IF you really want to move (which I totally understand) you should move as soon as possible, for her sake..

I think it's easier to move with "little" kids than when they get older (teenagers for example).

I'm sure you'll figure everything out when time comes!!

And now, I do understand why your partner cannot move! Of course he needs to be with his son, I didn't know he would be that young!!
That makes things a lot more complicated though!

I wish you the best!!

**lucybelle** · November 25, 2012, 09:51 AM

Well I'm a US citizen. HOPEFULLY "Obamacare" will stay enacted and therefore start being enforced in 2014. That means insurance companies cannot turn you away for "preexisting" conditions. It also means you can opt for government health care which will be free (well, paid for through taxes, but no charge during care). So don't get too down about health insurance... YET.

For schools- this is something I'm passionate about. I grew up in a city where lots of families moved to a neighboring city because of the "better" schools. I think that's total BS. I got a great education from my public school, and had a great time. I also think that these "better" schools don't necessarily have better teachers. This neighboring city was a lot wealthier than the city where I lived. Which mean wealthier kids were going to schools. So these kids had computers, private tutors, the internet, caring parents, everything they needed to succeed. Whereas in my city there were many poor kids, kids in non-conventional homes, kids who never saw their parents, no home support, etc. So if you base how good a school is by their test scores, of course the more privileged kids will always win. I'm rambling here, but I hope you at least sort of get where I'm going with all this. Basically- a kid with a loving home, with resources, with educated parents will succeed NO MATTER THE AVERAGE TEST SCORES OF A SCHOOL. They have everything on their side.

Aaaannnnyyyywayssss......

So I moved to Costa Rica because at the time it was a better option for us. My job is more mobile (teacher) and it's much easier for a foreigner to get a job here than in the USA. Meaning, I didn't need any special visas when I first entered. I got a job and then applied for residency. It's perfect for us now.

But we will move back to the USA. Not because of school or health care (although we won't move back to the USA until my SO is done with his braces and university to save on costs) but because we will both make more money in the USA. My SO is trying to help out his family who is in a bit of a financial crisis, and he can do that better when making 4xs as much as he does now. And living expenses in CR are either the same as the USA or HIGHER. So as a young couple, trying to build a nest egg and what not, it's better for us to go to the USA. I always tell my SO if in 10 years when we're rich we can move back to CR. But we'll see.

**Carenza LaRue** · November 25, 2012, 10:00 AM

thanks for your positive contribution Lucybelle!

it's exactly what Rob says too.... we had a conversation once, long time ago, about schools for Isabella, my daughter. He said he went to a Catholic school himself and had a great time.. his son is attending a public school too and is also having a great time...

it's just that my American friend here in the Netherlands was so negative about it, it made me confused.. it still does but a bit less now I did some research this afternoon.
Rob hasn't been online today yet, he is in sort of dip I guess, so I won't bring it to him today.

**lucybelle** · November 25, 2012, 10:18 AM

This friend is probably like all those families I mentioned that moved to this other city for the "better" schools. I had some amazing teachers in my "low performing" school. You should not judge a school by test scores, rather by how you child feels there. If they're comfortable, if they like their teachers, if they are learning, then pish-posh on the test scores.

**Carenza LaRue** · November 25, 2012, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by lucybelle View Post

This friend is probably like all those families I mentioned that moved to this other city for the "better" schools. I had some amazing teachers in my "low performing" school. You should not judge a school by test scores, rather by how you child feels there. If they're comfortable, if they like their teachers, if they are learning, then pish-posh on the test scores.

I didn't even know about test scores until she mentioned it. I assumed every school tested children the same way as we do here.... by a national model...
stupid of me, as you peeps have states and we don't.... besides that... we are a tiny country so it's only normal testing happens 'nationwide' here..

and yeah, she seemed a bit bitter in a way... she said that the school system here is way cheaper.

but anyway... I agree... children only flourish in a nurturing environment.... and with parents who believe in them and support them all the way through. found a great website about the american school system... makes more sense to me than what my friend said..

**ThePiedPiper** · November 25, 2012, 11:03 AM

I'm with lucybelle in the sense I have never seen our education system as being "bad," even in comparison to other countries. My ex would always come up with reasons why my education came second to his (ironic, since it took him until this year to go back to school to finish his high school education) and I never found them valid. A lot of people I have spoken to seem to have an issue with grades being a factor, as in places like Ireland and England, you don't get grades so much as you're preparing for one big exam at the end of high school. My ex told me that depending on your scores on that exam, it would give you a list of programs that were available to you in college, and to me, that came off as limiting, but he found it more reasonable than being able to go into college, "screw around for two years" during GEs, and then choose a major. It really is mostly a matter of opinion.

The one place that's currently struggling as far as education goes in the U.S. is funding. Lucybelle touched on some of it. The unfortunate thing is that in most states, if not all, government funding is provided based on test scores, so that's where the division between schools comes in. Some schools will have more resources than others and some schools will rank differently than others. I would ask your SO to gather materials on a variety of schools, in your area and in surrounding towns, simply to do a comparison of what types of resources would be available to your daughter. Are you ruling out private schools? The thing is that school resources are very limited to the government funding those schools receive, which are based on test scores. You have some schools where an entire classroom has one textbook and you have schools where they're well-off enough to provide iPads to the students for the school year. It really depends on what types of resources you're looking for, what's the minimum amount of resources you're okay with (for example, would you be okay with having to buy her textbook or do you want one provided through the school?), and if you're looking for schools that still have things like P.E. programs, extra-curriculars, and that offer fieldtrips as enhancements to student learning. Not all schools can or will provide this. It doesn't mean you can't compensate for it, but it only makes sense that everyone would have a baseline for what they're looking for the school to offer.

The other thing to consider is that if you want your daughter to pursue higher education, you can sometimes be limited for the amount of financial aid you receive. My family, for example, could not afford to pay for my university (single mother with two children and her own business to run) but we also did not qualify for financial aid, and while financial aid is certainly touted, I would not say it's as accessible as it is touted to be. Fortunately, my grandfather had set aside a fund for me so that I would not have the issue some of my friends are struggling with, which is graduating from undergrad with a shitton of student loans. My college is a public university and it's costing me around 15,000.00 per year to go here. That's 60,000 for four years of undergraduate education (this is a high estimate, however, as with budget cuts, tuition has increased almost yearly here) and at least with the way the economy is going, the BA is more or less the new high school diploma equivelant.

You have people with Bachelor's degrees competing for work and so it's become almost necessary to at least go through those four years. Most people in America, however, attain success through pursuing graduate school, which is another cost to consider, and obtaining their MA or doctoral degree. While I'm not saying that no one with a BA or even a high school diploma can be successful, I am saying that the higher the level of education, the more it closes the unemployment gap and the more likely you are to get a well paying job, but you have to invest a lot to be able to afford that. It's possible that America will go through another swing and stop seeing education as so much of a private good, but until it does, the cost of university is something you will have to deal with if you want your daughter to go on to attain higher education. I know that this is another common complaint amongst my European friends, is that they don't have to pay as much to go to college and some are even paid to go to college.

It's simply something to think about. Getting an education here isn't free. Getting healthcare here isn't free (at least not yet). Our social services are not as accessible as they are in Europe and while I don't have an issue with this, I know a lot of people who do. Usually these people are people who have lived in socialist countries, where they come from places where they "at least have the option" (as someone on here stated) even if the care might not be as up to par as a private practioner. Here in the U.S., you pay privately for almost everything, and I would say you would fall into this category almost sooner than someone in the U.S. because you have to prove that you can support yourself or that your SO has enough savings to support you and your daughter without either one of you turning to the social services for public aide. The only other thing to consider would be a car. I don't know where he lives in NJ, but a car and license is typically necessary in most places in the U.S.

**Carenza LaRue** · November 25, 2012, 11:13 AM

thanks PP....

will read this a bit better later, as I am making dinner right now....

but good to know how it works...

I think my friend became more socialist lately, as she is highly influenced by her new boyfriend.

Rob will help me out with this, he has a good income. he lives in Cherry Hill, Camden NJ
but I want to work and pay myself for my daughter's education..just as I would do here in the Netherlands... now that I read your story slightly, I became more positive.

thanks so far....

**Moon** · November 25, 2012, 11:47 AM

It's true that we don't have a nationalized education system, not only is it different between states, but it can even be different in the same town, depending on where that invisible district line is drawn, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, there is a lot of school choice and New Jersey has some very good schools. Your daughter is so young that she'll easily adapt, schools here are used to students enrolling with a mother tongue other than English, in that respect everything will be fine, don't even worry about that part of it. Just speak to the school administrators when you start the registration process, make sure you're all on the same page.

Health insurance....eh, that's more complicated. Your guy's monthly bill will definitely be higher, but not because of your tumor, but because of adding you and your daughter. He'll be paying his portion as the family plan, instead of single, so there's no getting around that, it's always higher when you add to the plan. There are absolutely disadvantages when it comes to health insurance in the US, our system (IMHO) is terrible compared to Europe, but that's only one little thing. There will always be advantages and disadvantages when moving countries, the US does have a lot of advantages too.

Check out this site I found for ya Life In The US, its for immigrants and should help. It has sections about health insurance and jobs, along with food, shopping, retirement, etc., and stories from other immigrants. I think you'll find some interesting info you never even thought of

Good luck, and remember that moving to another country is a huge deal, but very doable as long as you know what you're getting into. If you do make the move, I'll totally buy you a cheese steak

**Carenza LaRue** · November 25, 2012, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Moon View Post

If you do make the move, I'll totally buy you a cheese steak

we have a date!

hahaha....

thanks for the info, will read that as soon as possible...

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