So much has happened.

[Veiled_Dreamer]

I think some of you know that I finally confronted my SO about a lack of commitment and afterward he was being VERY good about trying a lot harder. He's made me so happy lately. He's been doing tangible things to prove to me he really cares: taking his laptop with him if he's going to go to another side of the house for a while but still wants to talk; being willing to sit on webcam even if I can't talk since there's other people around, handling issues that we have without shoving them under the rug. It's amazing how much change a simple letter can cause, and I am very content.

Then something strange happened. I was talking to his ex, who is now broken up with her "boyfriend", which was more of a joke than anything, and is very in love with my SO, which he doesn't seem to think is a problem since she knows he's not in love with her. They are still good friends, so I try to talk to her so he doesn't feel like there's a tension between me and someone he cares about. He and I were having a slight difficulty at the time and me, PMSing and thinking it's worse than it is, decides to anonymously rant to his ex, with no names or real details. We both decided it was best she didn't know about us so she didn't go crazy jealous on me. Out of no where, she asks if I'm actually over my SO like I claimed I was months and months ago (when I was trying to believe it was true, long story). I tell her I'm trying to be realistic, not really; I try to be evasive. He and I never discussed what we would do if she actually asked me something about him. Then she is very direct in telling me his opinion of me:

"well, like we'll just be talking and then he'll complain that you're getting clingy again and trying to get him to admit that you're perfect for each other and that it annoys him because in his mind it's not a possibility in the slightest because you're so young and that the most he can say is to wait until you're older but we both know that he'll be with me by then."

My first reaction is that I'm stupid for ever thinking he actually cared about me; then I freak and say I wish her the best with him, I always knew they'd end up together. I cry myself to sleep that night after I leave him some brief but very upset offlines telling him he has lied to me and I don't know if I can talk to him again. He promised he would tell me if I was ever clingy or obsessive, so that my natural paranoia would not get in the way of us. I felt betrayed and incredibly disappointed.

Then, he replies to my offlines asking to talk when he gets home. I leave more offlines in the morning basically giving my perspective. I see his other offlines when I get home from school (stupid time zones) and find out the truth. He did lie, but to her, not to me; to ward off her jealousy and prevent me from being victimized, he lied to her because "she needed to hear it." Which is VERY not okay, and my trust in him is still shaken. He said he never thought that such "what seemed like a simple fib to one person could seem like such a web of deceit to another." It hurt, and hurt bad. But he apologized and said he didn't want me to hate him, before I ever got that upset again I need to hear it from his lips. Luckily, I was able to webcam that day, so we discussed this face to face when we were both online.

I told him I was tired of the drama, of being overly dramatic all the time. This couldn't keep on, not like this. So I told him he had to tell her the truth: he didn't have to give details about making out or anything or how very much we mean to each other, but I couldn't be with him if one of his closest friends thought that he and I were strictly platonic and I was a crazy delusional loser to think anything else. He asked what if he couldn't do that, since it would break her heart? I told him then it was goodbye, and if she was strong enough to directly confront me about it, she had to be strong enough to hear the truth. Then I had to go eat, so I told him to think about it and we would say goodbye or whatever if we had to later.

I get back from eating and he's silent. Then he says, "I'm telling her now."

She doesn't take it as bad as we think she will; she had a really horrible day and even that, what little he did tell her and however much he did kind of glide over the gory details, seemed alright in comparison to what had already happened to her. I'm five and a half years younger than him (pfft, she's only two years older than me...) and she brings that up, tries to make him feel like he's a freak for being with me. He actually stands up for us- something that's hard for him, I'm sure, because he used to struggle with the age himself. And she is forced to accept it.

On his formspring (anonymous question box thing), she asks who is the prettiest, he replies in mind, body, or soul?; she asks all of the above, he replies with names and none of them are her. Then she freaks and they get into a huge argument because she's "fifty times better looking" than the girl he said was the prettiest in body. Honestly, the girl he picked is prettier than me, when she shows her true beauty and does her hair and dresses properly and wears contacts, and we've already discussed that. But in the end she tells him to "fuck off. have a nice life." So, in losing someone who is important to him, he panics and says things on his formspring about her being the prettiest girl ever.

I see this in my formspring feed and I'm obviously extremely confused. I ask him what's up and he's a little defensive at first, then he tells me she's stopped talking to him, hates him, and "no formspring question is worth that." I don't blame him, since I know he acted in the heat of the moment and a lot of formspring stuff can't be undone, really. She talks to him again, but is now firmly convinced to move on. Which doesn't hurt him of course, except that she's trying to convince herself she doesn't want him in her life altogether. I know that would hurt him, but he's told me all she ever does is make him feel guilty. It's so confusing: how much easier would things be if she finally realized it was best for her to be done with him? But I feel selfish wishing he would stop talking to someone who is/was one of his best friends.

So it's all resolved. I still love him, though my trust is shaken a good deal. He's trying even harder to prove himself to me. We've webcammed much much much more. I mention how we don't have a theme song and he says he'll find one for us, I openly refer to him as "mine" when he usually doesn't like commitment, and he not only doesn't say that makes him uncomfortable, he says something more sappy back. He's trying so hard, for sure. And that lets me know he's being sincere.

Thennn, tonight, I accidentally stumble upon her tumblr, which I'd forgotten about. Firefox autocomplete still has it up there from when I mentioned making a tumblr and she made a new one, too. It's basically an all-out hatred rant about me, when just five seconds ago we were having a somewhat pleasant casual conversation (I'm still trying to be her friend for his sake).

"i’m not sure why you waste your time on her. even by means of the mildest manner of expressing flirtation. the only thing she may have on me in the slightest is she might be a bit smarter than me. but i’m always assuming that of people and then being proved wrong. she certainly doesn’t have my looks in addition to brains. and as vain as that makes me sound i’ve finally accepted my apparent beauty.

i’m not sure why you wasted your time so long on her. in spite of her bitchy attitude.

but it doesn’t matter. you’ll see one day. when a street full of heads turn and yet i’ve eyes for no one but you. when guy after guy flirts openly with me right in front of you because they can’t help themselves. when the guy friends i’ll undoubtably make become predictably infatuated with me.

you probably think i’m exaggerating now but you’ll see for yourself one day. who knows, maybe it might even make you feel the slightest bit insecure. enough to forgive me my own insecurity now. because, see, i may know i’m beatiful. but i also know you’re blind."

It hurt surprisingly a lot! I'm self conscious, even if he tells me I'm the prettiest, most attractive girl in his life right now, I'm wonderful and sweet and his, among other things in his attempts to make me feel better about me. He's told me I'm prettier than her and he wants to be with me even if he feels like she's already decided they're ending up together, which is so shallow of me I know, but it comforts me because he knows I worry sometimes about there being something between them, even when he assures me there's not. I told him about the blog post, without real specifics but just saying that she basically called me an ugly bitch who's a waste of time. I asked him not to mention it to her, since she surely doesn't realize I still have the URL and I don't want anymore drama. He said not to worry about it, since she hardly knows me and she's very jealous. I told him I didn't think I was going to talk to her anymore, even if I had been trying to make nice on his behalf. He didn't even try to suggest it was a good idea by any means, of course, and he's fine with us just putting these worries about her behind us.

What do you think? What would you do from here?

[MadMolly]

Personally I think he needs to stop talking to her, and you need to stop talking to her also, because obviously she has major issues and I firmly believe that you *cannot* be friends with an ex until ALL feelings are gone. I think its very disrespectful to keep the friendship going because she is being strung along (perhaps not deliberately but she clearly believes he will come back to her) and the only way she is going to understand that it is over is if he cuts off all contact, at least for a few months anyway.

When my ex and I broke up, we both had feelings for eachother still but it would have been messy to try and stay friends. We stopped talking for about a year/18 months or so and when we started talking again it was much better and we get along easier (though I don't ever see him in person or have heart-to-hearts as there is still a slight amount of lingering stuff there and I don't want to tease it).

I think if she has this sort of bad attitude, vanity and delusions then your guy losing her as a friend isn't such a bad thing. Just sayin!

[Veiled_Dreamer]

I asked him that once, why he still needed her in his life at all? He said he would feel more guilty if he stopped talking to her. She's told him, at the point of being suicidal, that he's the only thing that makes her happy. She's told him flat she can't live without him, while I recognize I don't need him and he doesn't need me. And that scares me, because he feels like there's no way out with. I don't think she'll ever let herself stop talking to him, she doesn't understand it's much healthier to stop clinging to the last bits of hope, and he will feel bad about just telling her no when she relies on him for all of these emotional health things. It's a friendship based on guilt, and I hate it.

[Mio]

This is complicated. I think that if she made this suicidal threats, your boy should persuade her to go to get help. It is unhealthy to think like that about a person, it looks like she is obsessed. Maybe he can talk to her family or something, this is serious.

[MadMolly]

This sounds harsh but even though it's scary, it's not his problem. He should not be trapped in a friendship this unhealthy. She needs to get help and he can't keep "being there for her" anymore because she's just acting like every single teenager does after they break up with their first major boyfriend. I did the exact same thing when I was 16 - clingy, "suicidal" (but really "attention seeking") and the guy I was crushing on kept talking to me and teasing me along... and then started going out with my friend and stopped talking to me. It was the wakeup call I needed and I was much better. It is dangerous to assume all suicde threats are attention seeking however because tragedies do occur that way.

Is she his friend in-person (as in, does he see her or could see her on a regular basis in person)? If so, get him to talk to her parents and get her help. If he can't do *anything* to help her then I reckon he should just cut her out of his life completely. It's the only way she will "click" and understand over means over. She may be terribly depressed and upset but he can't do anythig to help her if she won't help herself or understand what over means. Ask him to contact her parents or RL friends if she is making suicide threats.

[Michelle]

She is more than likely using suicide threats to manipulate him and get attention. She is very obsessive about him and it would be healthy for her to distance herself from him and actually give other guys a chance. That thing she wrote may have sounded good in her mind, but it made her seem downright nasty and honestly CRAZY with 1 or 2 screws loose. She thought it would work to make him feel jealous, but WOW I think that would be a turn off for just about any guy who reads it.

I agree with MadMolly, I really don't think he should continue to talk with her. If I had a friend that was so against me being with Frank, then 1) they are NOT a friend, and 2) I cannot imagine continuing to associate with someone who hates the person I love most. I think if your boyfriend stopped talking to her as much as he does, it would be good for her not bad. She needs to get over him and she won't if he's always there.

[Tanja]

She needs help, clearly.

[Veiled_Dreamer]

She was in an LDR with him at one point, but it didn't last very long. He and I have been "together" (though we feel as though the boyfriend/girlfriend thing doesn't fit us, so we are "lovers"; we aren't technically exclusive until we meet in person, though we have to end things with each other before we pursue other people, and it's a weird situation but I'm getting all that I want out of it) for just as long if not longer than they were, but she was in love with him for a good year before he ever admitted to feeling anywhere near the same, so I think while it was three months to him, it's much longer to her. Her parents are not all there and abusive at times, as well as insanely irrational and paranoid of federal authority, so even if he could tell her parents what was up, I doubt they'd care or much less do anything about it. Basically, I know she is or was depressed and is trying to get over that, so these threats may be genuine. He's a Taoist, as am I in some aspects, so he believes that life will take its path and things will fall into place when we least expect it, so in that way he refuses to rule her out until we get together and can actively pursue our "happily ever after". That was something that really bothered me, because I thought that it seemed like he was trying to keep his options open, when really it's just his way of thinking. I realize now he does want to be with me, right now, and he would like to think we could be together forever, but we haven't even met in person yet, so who knows? Basically, the important thing is that when I gave him the ultimatum of telling her about us, he did, even though it was very possible it would make her stop talking to him. It's weird, but he is with me as long as we both desire it, despite consequences and people, and that's what matters.

What sucks is not only is this dangerous to her in the suicidal way, it's dangerous to me. She's moving out there next year, "to be with him" she has decided; the absolute earliest I can fathom me being able to move to be with him is two years. She is determined they will get back together. I wish she could just realize right now he's pursuing all of these things with me, not her. Plus even when he tells her he doesn't want to be the only thing that makes her happy, she doesn't accept that it's not that she just has to move out there and it'll all end up lovey-dovey with them. The scary thing is that I don't put it past her at all to pull us apart: she's already trying to convince him of the things wrong with me, I know for a fact.

I'll see what I can do about asking him if it's best to keep talking to her like this. It has nothing to do with me being jealous of her connection to him. It's that he can and has moved on, and she simply isn't really trying. She's told me that she believes all the "relationships" she has locally are only things that will last only as long as she has to stay where she is, before moving to where he lives. It's not healthy for her, I totally agree.

@Michelle: Yeah, I really thought that was a little off the wall on her part. He doesn't have the URL to her tumblr, so when I told him what I had seen, he sighed and asked how bad it was. I didn't link him to it, I just summarized. I should have let him read it, as I agree it would've shown him how very "serious" she is about this.

P.S. guys: It looks like she just posted 15+ images/quotes on her tumblr about unrequited love being fulfilled and not giving up and her not loving you as much as I do. >.> *cough*

[Darth_Taco]

I've been reading on what you post about your relationship for a while now, and I can't stay quiet after this one. At lot of what I'm going to say will get personal. It's because I've experienced similar things. I've experienced them in a very different way though, so I can't completely relate. That's not what I'm here for. I'm here to add a different perspective. I think your lover needs a reality check of some sort, because this is not right or normal. My boyfriend broke up with his ex, and got together with me on the same day with only 4 hours in difference. He told her the next day what he did. He left her for some random girl on the internet he had never even seen in person at the time. They were together for two years and lost their virginities to each other. Hell, she was his first girlfriend. The next comment will likely piss you off. Not everyone is as brutally honest as my boyfriend, but a man should still have the guts to be honest with someone he's suppose to care about. Your lover should've been honest with her and told her from the beginning rather then let everything build up and have everything come out worse than it is.

If she were truly suicidal, she wouldn't say a thing. I know, my ex was. He killed himself on new years 2007. I wish he would've said something, then I wouldn't have shouted at him the last time I talked to him and I maybe could've helped. He wasn't interested in living any longer though. If he were he would've told someone. Know who this girl is like? My father. Every time my mom would get the courage to leave him he'd slit his writs or try some other form of suicide. She'd immediately take him back, and soon enough he's back to beating her. He's back to cheating, he's back to making her work two jobs while he steals her money, back to getting high and drunk, back to treating my brother like crap, back to making me his secret sex toy while mommy is at work. She manipulates like my father did. Maybe not to the same level, but she's doing the same. My mother finally couldn't take it after a murder/suicide attempt involving all of us. She finally left and refused to listen to him again. We're fine, doing much better. He's still alive somewhere in Arizona most likely. We don't talk to him, and he's forgotten about us. My mom left with 2 kids under 10 and him living in the city, you can't tell me he can't just cut off contact? It's not hard, and I will actually bet money on her life saying she won't kill herself over this.

Here's another thing, her depression. I hate saying I had a bad childhood, so I refuse to ever say it. I had a mom that loves me a brother who I'm still close to, a strong belief in God, and I beat the odds by still being alive after the age of 8. What more could I ask for? Well, besides health insurance and not waking up with nightmares on a constant basis. Anyway, Look at what I posted already about my childhood. Are either of her parents that bad? Don't tell me suicide either, I'm beyond suicidal. Suicidal people are more mentally stable than I am, I'm a junkie. My suicide attempts are slow and painful. You know what it's like to be a drug addict? I'm not even human when I'm using. I gave up everything for a bottle of pills. I gave up pain and suffering. At the same time I gave up happiness, excitement, thoughts, imagination, normal bodily functions, my appetite, the ability to feel physical pain, my sense of balance, my ability to see straight, my sex drive, my motivation, everything. I was nothing more than an emotionless robot only existing. At least someone who is suicidal can feel. I'm sober now, and for the first time since I was 14 I have emotions again. You have no idea how bad it hurts. Infants have more emotional control than I do.

She is a very manipulative person who doesn't give a shit about him. She's just using him to make herself feel better. If she really cared about him, she'd be happy that he's with someone now that made him feel happy. With my first boyfriend, I freaked out. When he suddenly dumped me out of nowhere, I didn't take it well. I still helped him find a way to get his fiancée to the United States. My selfishness was not above his happiness. In time I got sick of him using me for various reasons and I just stopped talking to him. I got over him within 2 or 3 months. Now I got someone who I truly love and who truly loves me. I got a lot of issue, but I'm happy with him. I'm about to move to him. He and his ex are still friends, and she's with someone she loves now. Only took her about 3 months to get with someone else. My living ex is about to get married. I haven't talked to him in a while now, but I plan to bug him into inviting me and my boyfriend to the wedding. You know that uncle that always gets embarrassingly drunk at weddings? That's what we'll be, except without the drunk since I've been sober for 6 months and I can't fuck that up now for a laugh. Basically, we're all happy and things are going great for all of us. Your lover is interfering in what could be happiness in all 3 of you. His intentions might be good, but the result is nothing but pain in all 3 of you. He needs to stop thinking about the short term and realize how much harm he's doing. Hopefully you won't go blind before reaching the end of my insanely long post and it manages to help.

[PurpleDreamer]

If she were truly suicidal, she wouldn't say a thing.

I just wanted to say that while this may be true for a lot of people who make suicidal threats, it is not the case for everyone. I know someone very close to me who made suicide threats and acted upon them, he took his own life in 2005.

Clearly, this girl needs help and your SO is not helping her one bit. He should have been honest with her right from the start. I understand that he is trying to protect her feelings but this is only making it worse, it will only cause more pain in the long run for all 3 of you. Obviously, she is not totally accepting the situation so I agree with what some others have said, he needs to cut contact with her, all together. if possible, he should also contact her family or friends and make them aware that she is making suicidal threats. Sure, making suicidal threats could just be her way of trying to emotionally manipulate him but it could also be a sign of something more serious so it is better to be safe then sorry.

[Veiled_Dreamer]

Well.

Last night, someone posted some horrible things on her formspring, basically someone stalked that blog post and said she was a selfish self-absorbed bitch. It definitely was not me and it wasn't my best friend (or so she tells me, and she's never lied) so I told his ex that. We had a conversation about how glad we were that it wasn't me, because we didn't need more drama. I said we both just needed to let it be: he would be with who he wanted to be with in the end, and if he wasn't with you (you being a general pronoun, not a pointed reference to her ) in the present, we couldn't sit around hoping for the future. Of course, he was with me in the present so I was just trying to help her move on, but I tried to be vague to avoid more conflict.

Then she told me he was with her in the present. He had promised her everything, a lifetime together, all of it. He reminded her of their want to reunite and fall in love again every day. Now, of course, she had made up elaborate things before, and he told me not to cry unless I heard it from his mouth.

She got to him first, told him everything, because I was at a fundraiser for my competitive dance group. He told me not to talk to her anymore. I'm trying to do what's best, but I'm only hurting her. I asked if he had promised those things; he said no, he just let her believe because she needed to. I'm tired of that. What else does she need to believe that he's simply letting her believe? And he confessed that the reason he didn't want to commit had nothing to do with me or long distance or a belief in letting the future come as it came. It was because he didn't know who he wanted to be with. He wanted to be with me, he wanted to be with her. And I made it simple for him. I left. I will not be an option when I need to make someone a priority.

There was crying and holding and "why did this have to happen?" and whatever else, but it's fine. "Technically" we're on a break or what have you, but I don't believe in breaks and I am more than moving forward with my life. There is a close male friend who has been there for me through this, and since this was all so secretive, sometimes we would act like we were together, more than my standard touchy-feeliness, to throw people off. It was fine because he knew I had a lover. But honestly, I think it'll start being more than acting, and I'm okay with that, because he knows I'm having a hard time with this so it won't be a random rebound. He already is more attentive than my SO was, I can honestly see myself being happy with him since he can give me everything my SO refused to give to me. I will be okay.

Ha. This sucks. He's already flirting it up with her on Facebook, and I just told him yesterday that he could be with her if he wanted it all that much. ;D Do you know how many times he flirted with me on Facebook? None. And that proves to me how little I meant to him in the long run.

[Mio]

I am happy that you took control of the situation and left, after all who wants to be with a man so insecure of what he wants and not wanting to commit? You will do good and you will find a man that loves you and only you. Take care!

[Veiled_Dreamer]

I'm glad I did too, even if it was really hard. We have agreed to not talk until May 2nd when the break ends, but I mean, I don't think I'll be like sitting around waiting for that day to come, you know? A lot can happen in two months, I wouldn't put it past me to be so happy I forget it was that day altogether. If I honestly find that he made me happy enough for me to not be content with anyone else, then I might consider being with him again, only if it's all my rules and none of these stupid maybes. Because one thing is for certain, I am definitely never doing this again with him. I wasn't a doormat, I like to think, but I could have been more forceful and stood up for myself more, and I think in future relationships, I will be more sure to hold my ground and not give in as much.

[Tanja]

I think you made the right decision, the situation with the 3 of you is so confusing and akward and her depression or problems were never you're concern yet you were the one to suffer from them. I think he's weak for not cutting contact with her but obviously maybe he never really wanted to either...

Stay strong now and I honestly think it would be best if you didn't get involved with him again because how much do you really expect to change in 2 months? Especially if he's already flirting with her which is just sad. I'm sure you'll be much more happier either on your own or with that boy who seems to really care and be there for you when you need.