No Wedding Bells for Us? :( Help!

[Lunar Snow]

Hey,

Just trying to type something quick here. I am on my visit with my SO. Some things have been great and I hope to update you on them, but I need some support while I am on the trip. Help! I need not to feel so crushed.

Basically, I felt it was a good idea to ask his philosophy on marriage (seems a little late, since we have been dating for more than a year). (I felt it was a comfortable time to bring it up, since lots of people in his family recently were married and he seems really excited that the rumour mill is suggesting his best female friend might have the question popped to her). You see, I really would like to get married one day (and would be very careful to know that I am ready for it, etc.) and it may or may not be him, but I liked the idea of being able to have a tiny hope for it with him and daydream about it, etc. Well, philosophically, he said he doesn't like or dislike the idea of marriage , but that he will likely never get married. The only explanation he could come up with was that he felt it was only religiously symbolic (and he is an atheist). So crushed...and he didn't really go into more detail...and because we had been discussing some stressful things that went on that day earlier, I didn't really feel confident to tell him much on my view or defend the idea of marriage. I hadn't realized how much I one day wished he would ask me! :'( I did manage to say that...I didn't know what to say because my view on it seemed somewhat oppositional and maybe that was a major incompatibility. ...but in the fray of the other stressful things we had discussed and the late hour, that conversation was nixed any further.

Another conversation we have had was about reducing the distance or closing the distance...and at least having a time frame. He completely went into lock-down and wouldn't say much, but that the idea was scary. I can't keep at this with out some idea of when we might ever close the distance. :'( (We love each other, he has been very romantic and an all around fabulous boyfriend this visit, and I can't imagine breaking up...but I can't stand this distance indefinitely!).

Kind words...advice...a giant tub of ice cream?

[Mara]

I can imagine how upset you must be. These are two huge issues to be sort of dropped on you all at once.

I don't think his view of marriage sounds so bleak or incompatible with yours. From what you've said, he really doesn't have any opinion of marriage except for that he feels it is a 'religious symbol'. It doesn't sound like he has any strong opposition against marriage which is a good thing if you are someone who values marriage. I think a much more important question is whether or not he ever sees himself making a lifetime commitment to someone. If he does, then marriage is really simply putting a title to things and I can't see why if he has no strong opposition to it why he would mind getting married one day. Of course, this is a huge issue that will have to be discussed, but I think that this is something that could be resolved between the two of you with a bit more communication on the subject.

I can't really say much on the subject of closing the distance as you didn't give much to go on and I'm not sure you even know much behind his reasoning. Obviously, from his own admittance, he's afraid which isn't the end of the world, but at some point, he has to face that fear for the sake of your relationship. I agree with you that a long distance relationship cannot just go on indefinitely and I think after a year it's not unreasonable to at least want some sort of time frame. If he can't give you one are you willing to give him more time?

Personally, if the two of you are happy together, I would give him more time to figure out some sort of time frame, but obviously, there's only so much time you can give a person. Have you told him your feelings on closing the distance?

[Caitlin2009]

well number 1 thing you dont have to get married in order to be with someone i mean look at Oprah shes been with Steadman for many years and they arent married, as for closing the distance keep bringing that up and ask him a time frame because eventually your gonna have to close the distance

[milaya]

I'm sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted.
I really hope you two can work through this.

In my experience, the thought of marriage, not just for me, but for my SO as well has been a roller coaster, to be honest.
I was just like your SO, I'm an atheist and saw marriage just as a piece of paper - a paper I surely didn't need. I was fine with finding a guy, have a child or two and just live together. I felt the same when I met my SO and so did he.
My SO told me right away that he did not believe in marriage and he saw it only as trouble and a big wedge between couples. He had seen married people around him do nothing, but fight. Especially his parents. Well we then agreed on that.

When we got more serious, we realized I needed a visa in the future, so we made a new deal, if we were still together 5 years from now, we could talk about marriage and kids. Well that changed as well. Back in november he suddenly told me that he could see himself being with me forever and etc. (we got engaged) and 3 weeks ago we went through with it. Even his father said "didn't you say you never wanted to get married!".

Guess what I'm trying to say is, that people change their minds. Maybe you should focus on the reasons you wish to get married, besides religious ones. My SO & I are both atheists and we see no religious view in marriage (we had no wedding). As long as he does not tell you that he is 100% sure he never wants to get married, I guess there's still something to work with. And have you thought about what it is that makes you wish to get married in the future? Is it religious? Having the same name? Feeling more like a family? Tradition? etc.

I can't say much about the issues concerning closing the distance. Only that he needs to work on it as much as you. Maybe there is something causing him to shut down. I don't know...
But, it is an important talk in a LDR, you need something to work towards.

I wish you the best.

[nicole]

Well first off, you can be together forever without being married- my Dad's oldest friend has been with his partner for 27 years (no breaks or anything)- that's 2 years more then my dad has been actually MARRIED to my mum. I don't think they will get married, they do just fine as they are, marriage won't change anything for them, except there's a piece of paper saying they are legally bonded.

Second, I am also Atheist, but I want to get married- but like him, I do not like the religious aspect. These days, it IS possible to be married and not have ANY religious links in the ceremony- a civil ceremony. I know my ceremony will be conducted by a registrar, rather then a minister for this reason. It isn't just religiously symbolic to me, it's "I love this man and want to spend the rest of my life with him, and I want it to be shown in every possible way". Or that's the best I can explain it anyway. And plus, on a more impersonal note, I don't know about in the US, but in the UK you get different tax breaks for being married *shrugs* I now that sounds a bit clinical, It's just an example that there are other reasons for marriage other then "religious symbolism", more romantic reasoning being "We love each other"

People do change their minds, he might just not be ready for marriage, or the thought of marriage yet. I would think of your reasons for wanting to be married in the future and convey them to him at an appropriate time. It will at least give him something to think about.

As for the closing the distance... I don't have much advice to offer you, but like milaya said, you both have to working on it. I would maybe ask him if you could sit down and at least look into your options or a time-frame, for your own piece-of mind, but again, now might not be an appropriate time to do so =/ these things are tricky. *I send you all the virtual cookies I can bake *

[stargazerdj]

Hi- I wanted to say I understand how you feel right now and give you some encouragement. I am happy to have read the post my milaya with a very similar situation. My fiance and are still long distance being so over 2 years now. It was a progression and although we had our commitment talk early on because of the distance, marriage was not discussed. A year and some long visits later we discussed marriage and he was neutral on that because of his beliefs; that paper doesnt signify, etc. Long story short, it was in steps and eventually he was the one (at first for not wanting to be apart so long and VISA stipulations) to bring it up. We are two months away from the wedding with very complex and unique plans for after the marriage in this next year but I can assure you that feelings on these subjects can definately change with time. I felt as you must be feeling at one time but my strong advice to you is to give it more time and let things occur naturally. When the time is right bring it up again and just discuss future plans in a generic sense. When I first brought it up my fiance was much as your SO. That has really changed and I can't stress that enough. LDR's are work and steps are really needed in this kind of thing. For now, you are with him. Something at this moment I can really envy (smile). Enjoy the time and give each other the best; later give these feelings more attention and try to be patient. I know how hard that is but trust me feelings can only grow deeper.

[Tanja]

Andy sort of told me what your SO told you... that he might never want to get married or have kids. It was a HUGE shock for me because I really want to marry him and have a family with him.

We talked about it again later and he said he felt like I was pushing him. I then said I wasn't, I just wanted to know that we weren't ever not gonna get married. He said he does want to marry me but not yet and not anytime soon either and that he will ask me when the time is right. So I just have to wait and be patient - a quality I really don't have

Don't panic just yet. Time can change a lot. I never wanted to get married until I met Andy and now I can't wait to be his wife one day. You've been together for a year, I think it might be a bit too soon to permanently decide on marriage yet. Give him time and give yourself time too to accept his opinions.

Closing the distance IS scary. Especially if you have to move countries. It raises all kinds of insecurities and it's impossible to know exactly what you want to do on the first conversation about the subject. If he shuts down when you bring it up, give him some time and the bring it up again. He can't avoid the issue forever but he might think it's too soon to think about it yet or he's just scared to talk about it. It's a big step to take and for some reason all the steps seem to be a hundred times bigger in a LDR than in a CDR.

[Lunar Snow]

Hi,

Just replying quickly, but hope to write in more detail soon about your responses (he is nodding off, as we had lots of wine at his parents' house...but asked that I not take too long getting ready for bed since our visit is almost over).

Glad to hear you mostly don't think his feelings on marriage are absolute. Really do feel like I should have a chance to speak my feelings and thoughts on it and find out more about his. Wish it would be on a visit, but because things are drawing to a close here, I feel like our time together would be strained to have a big debate at the end. Dilemmas!

As for closing the distance talks, I have actually tried to talk about it several times before and he always goes into closed-of and freak-out mode! (We have been official for just over a year, but have had a romantic thing going on more like a year and 3/4). If pressed, he used to say that we would think about things more seriously after he graduated (which was in December). Then, he would say that he could start by telecommuting to live in Seattle and keep his job in Kansas, but now that seems non-existent. Visits are lovely and create lots of great memories, but any time he suggests this and that on my next visit, I feel so...discouraged, because I know that that may be 4 to 8 months away and worry that we will be perpetually just visiting each other until our relationship reaches an end!

Okay, must go--but maybe my additions there will help people commenting to understand the situations more clearly.

[NaNi]

My SO never liked the idea of marriage either, but she told me that she's slowly changing her mind. I guess it just really depends who you're with. I'm also an Atheist (and my SO isn't religious either), so it would be a civil ceremony for us.

[Lunar Snow]

I really appreciated your comments--they helped me calm down about this whole thing. I still definitely want to talk about views on marriage and closing the distance more with him, but wanted for us to enjoy the now of the visit. Yet, now I am back home and my jet-lagged, food poisoned body is putting me in a place where I am on repeat worrying about this stuff. It will be so much harder now that we are apart again, but it isn't fair to either of us to just close the book on these topics.

Regarding marriage, I am rather torn because I am seeing first-hand how destructive my parents' marriage is. In many other ways, though, I would like to try marriage, work at marriage, and have that level of commitment with someone. True, I am a spiritual person, but I agree with others that it would be more of an ultimate, official, and public celebration of love and commitment. Perhaps, I should have asked him if he would consider a civil union or a non-denominational ceremony like my sister had. Yes, I do also think a bit about a dress and a ring, but I know marriage is hard work and a big deal. I wish that he would think that I was a big deal. All these talks together, I feel a little like he just wants us to be visiting each other, never closing the distance and certainly never making any further commitment...and I suppose that that would last until we can't take the distance anymore or get sick of each other--that would be terrible...but it is weighing on my mind. I tried to keep on a happy face after this for the visit and did a pretty good job, but I still found that I had these worrisome thoughts seeping in.

[Lunar Snow]

The night before last, he and I finally talked about some of these big issues. I couldn't keep the feelings in any more and they all boiled over!

Marriage, or something at that level of commitment, doesn't seem like such a no-go now. I was able to share how I felt about it and he talked a lot more about it, too. I guess that he is more of a civil union person (his sister is gay and cannot get married most places nearby and he feels it is wrong that she can't. Also, because he is an atheist, he thinks it would be very strange to step into a church for marriage). Regarding what he said about the religious aspect of things, I also brought up that he is a world traveller and to take a world perspective of weddings not just being a Christian institution and there being many sorts of religions that inspire weddings and people of very different religions coming together. To that, I added, that people can also have spiritual and non-denominational weddings or unions that are different from civil unions, but without having to force anyone into a slot--like what my sister and her husband had. After that, he seemed to entertain the idea of a ceremony like that and at least take it in as something to think about.

So, looking a lot better. True to his character, he made no bold declarations about us and marriage or civil union. Not surprising and a realistic take, but some small, girlie part of me would like for him to have had the same hope. That's okay! For him personally, though, he said "I'm not opposed to that [(civil union)] level of commitment"--I think that's still kind of an answer veering away from it for now, but at least it wasn't a "never" again.

I will have hope, thanks to all your comments. :3

[Micah]

That's good you were able to have a discussion about it and it has moved into a positive direction.