Frustrated and hurt... could really use some advice :(

[Shizu]

Hi~! I'll start off with introducing myself I suppose I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I wish I had found this site with all you wonderful people sooner. I'm from Canada, 21 (22 later this year!) and my SO is in the U.S. and 23 (24 in a few months)

Alas, I am no longer in a LDR. Allow me to explain (and I apologize in advance as this could potentially turn into a long post!)

The time I've been with my SO is 2 years and a few months, when he broke up with me about a month ago. It came as a shock to me (as any break up would do, no?) and things have been...shaky at best. The reason he gave me for wanting to break up is because he said he couldn't handle the distance anymore. I called B.S. on that, after all our relationship had never been stronger. I wanted him to talk to me about what the real reasons were, it just didn't make sense for him to suddenly break up.

The only problems we ever had in the past were mid-way in our LDR, when both of us weren't sure if this is what we wanted. It was remedied by him visiting me for a week when we both agreed this was everything we ever wanted and it was like a dream come true.

Allow me to give you some more info on our back story and why it doesn't make sense to me that he's using the distance as an excuse. Well, throughout our entire relationship he had always assured me that he would move to me. Now, after talking to him he says he doesn't want to move anymore. I have always been against the idea of moving down to him (and have let him know this on several occasions when we talk about closing the distance). I know deep down that I don't want to move away from my family because of several reasons
1.) I'm extremely close to them (immediate and extended. Haha, I have a fairly large family)
2.) Culturally, it has always been accepted that children would take care of their parents when they get old. (This might be old-fashioned, but it's the way I was raised and it makes sense to me. My parents gave me everything and suffered through a lot when I was young to be able to provide for their children. I feel as if I owe them everything, the LEAST I could do is make sure they're comfortable the older they get)
3.) Dropping my support network completely? Not okay with that in the slightest.

My friends are also a huge part of my life and though I could probably make new friends, the friends I have now I've known for so long they are the equivalent of being my extended family

My SO knows all this. He knew that I'm super attached to my family/friends, that the whole 'filial piety' thing is important, this is why he was always okay with moving up to be with me. He isn't that close to his family, nor his friends and has told me that all he needs is to be with me to be happy. So... bwuh?! doesn't want to move anymore? You can practically see the gears in my brain getting stuck.

More nitty gritty stuff: I've noticed a change in his attitude ever since he got a job and I think this is where it stems from. I'm still in university, and he recently graduated. I know and understand that he had an extremely hard time finding a job after graduating and that this job was basically a godsend for him (he was on the verge of being kicked out of his house by his own family for not having a job immediately after grad. Kind of ridiculous...but I digress). It makes sense that he would prioritize his job over me for awhile, and I'm fine with that. However, it seems like he has decided this job is his be-all-end-all in his life. I thought he would work there and save up money until I graduate and then he'd move to be with me. Nope, apparently he decided he doesn't want to move at all because he now has a job.

It's headache inducing, not to mention heart wrenching but we are now... stuck. Even though (as I said before) I've always been against moving, he's tried to pressure me into moving down there when I graduate. To him, it makes "more sense" for me to move down there because he already has a job. I'd be dropping everything though, and I'm not okay with this. He now views moving to Canada as dropping everything (for him), and thinks that just moving would be impossible. I'm not denying that one of us has to sacrifice something (or everything?) to be with the other, what I don't agree with is how he's always said he would move but now is against it. My friends have suggested that throughout our 3 years of having known each other, that I was the only stable thing in his life and now that he has a FT job, he feels as if the job is now the 'stable thing' and our relationship isn't.

If I let myself get angry about it, it's also a bit insulting. Neither of us have had steady jobs during our relationship and (being the poor students we are) have almost always been chronically broke. I've always gotten (or made) gifts for him for birthdays/christmas/etc. But he hasn't. He hasn't even shown the slightest bit of effort to try and make me something and to send it online to me. I guess it'd be easier for me since I'm an artist, but jeez make SOME effort. /rant
Aside from feeling a bit miffed, I was actually okay with not receiving presents. He barely had enough money to feed himself, a present would be an expense I would hope he didn't have to worry about! I've always been the more 'forgiving' one and I've accepted a lot of things about him (not sure if I could label them flaws...) and yet still love him with all my heart. He's admitted that I'm the 'best' he's ever met and yet he still broke up with me because he can't picture leaving his job. His new job. A new job he's had for a WEEK before he broke up with me.

I'm starting to ramble a bit, sorry to whoever is reading this!

We've tried talking a few times after our break up, but even though we both want to get back together (he actually asked to come back, but I said no) we can't seem to find a solution that we can both agree on. I absolutely refuse to move down there and he doesn't want to move up here. However, lately he has conceded that the only thing blocking him from moving up here is economic reasons. It's all about practicality to him. I still think it would be better if he saved up and tried to move once I graduated. He isn't okay with me "just waiting" for him to come to me though. It will take at least another year or two before I can graduate, and I'm not sure what else I can do to show him I'm not just twiddling my thumbs. I know that he'll need some financial help if he does come up here, and I'm trying to find a job to help with that but nothing seems to please him. :/

Of course, I'm also not sure what options there are to make his transition easier. We've researched extensively on Canadian immigration policies but nothing ever seems to... "fit" so to speak. I've suggested maybe coming up here and going back to school, but he hates that idea, and sees it as moving backwards in his life. I'm at my wits end and I just feel confused, angry, hurt, and sad all at once. It makes it kind of hard to think with a clear head.

I'm sure there's still a lot more I'd want to add, but my mind kind of blanked out just now. Advice or suggestions would be nice. I feel like I'm groping around in the dark >_<

[LadyMarchHare]

I can see what his mindset is for the sudden change in opinion. Jobs are hard to come by, especially if you don't have much or any previous experience and since it was a struggle to get that job he may not feel like risking the headache again by moving as well as the possibility he will fail, his funds will run out, and he'd either have to mooch from you or return home empty-handed. So because he has what he considers a solid foundation he believes it makes more sense that you make the compromise of leaving to be with him.

It's a very hard situation because you made your stand about this and it is something you are not willing to compromise and that's fine. If I were close to my family I wouldn't want to leave them, either because I was raised with the mindset that family sticks together and is always close.

Someone, ultimately, is going to have to make a move if there is still desire to be together, which I'm gathering there is. You have moral obligations, he has a financial one. In the end this is just butting heads and digging heels into the dirt because he doesn't want to do this and you've refused to do that and so you run around in circles until you get tired. Have you tried asking him what he feels would be required for him to even consider moving to you again instead of coming up with suggestions yourself? He may not answer right away but it would give him something to think about and once he comes up with an answer or a list you could work on what's realistic, what can be compromised, and what can't be done.

[Shizu]

I've asked him to think about what would be needed for him to move, or to even be okay with that idea again. He always replies with 'I don't know' and it's back to square one again. I've also asked him to take some time to think about it, especially if he isn't sure right now but he tells me he doesn't want to. He's torn between wanting to make us work, and just not thinking about it anymore since he's already broken up with me.

The only thing I've gotten out of him is that if I got a job, it would make things seem better. Beyond that though, I don't what else to do

[Mara]

First and foremost, I think the two of you need to decide if you are going to be together or not. If you are going to be together, I think this is an issue that needs to be worked on inside of the relationship.

Unfortunately, there has to be some sacrifice on someone's part here. Since him moving to you or you moving to him is a year or more away, have the two of you just considered re-evaluating the situation then? Say, could the two of you agree to do whatever is more practical at the time?

[Riyko]

Honestly i didn't read the whole post, but one thing i do have to tell you is, it's not as easy as you'd think for him to move up to canada to be with you, there are a lot of steps you have to go through when finding a job (I know i went though all of them) where as it'd be a lot easier for you to get a job in the states and move there because there are less requirements for you..

[LadyMarchHare]

I've asked him to think about what would be needed for him to move, or to even be okay with that idea again. He always replies with 'I don't know' and it's back to square one again. I've also asked him to take some time to think about it, especially if he isn't sure right now but he tells me he doesn't want to. He's torn between wanting to make us work, and just not thinking about it anymore since he's already broken up with me.

The only thing I've gotten out of him is that if I got a job, it would make things seem better. Beyond that though, I don't what else to do

While I agree with Mara's saying the main thing right now should be whether or not you two will return to a relationship, I realize this is a huge issue as well. If his answer is "I don't know" and "I don't want to" then I can't say I believe he's putting much thought into wanting to be with you. Yes you getting a job would help but he can't put all responsibility on you and your actions. If he's gonna stick to his guns about not moving, you have to weigh your options. If you do get back together, could you ever seriously see yourself moving for him? If that answer is no, perhaps it's best to leave things in the past and either try to remain friends or sever ties. It's not fair to either one of you for there to never be a decision about ending the distance and you certainly can't live you life going back and forth to each other.

[LadyMarchHare]

Honestly i didn't read the whole post, but one thing i do have to tell you is, it's not as easy as you'd think for him to move up to canada to be with you, there are a lot of steps you have to go through when finding a job (I know i went though all of them) where as it'd be a lot easier for you to get a job in the states and move there because there are less requirements for you..

I know it's a lot of text and a lot of information to digest (I had to read a couple paragraphs twice over, myself) but it does help to try to read everything since you might miss important details such as why she won't consider moving to him.

[nicole]

I think my SO and I are similar to you, but we think the opposite way. My SO has the job in the U.S whilst I am in school (in the UK), but I am making the move, even though I am really close to my family and he isn't close to his really.

You must understand here, it's all well having the "who will move" talk, but you DO need to think of all the financial aspects too, which is what your SO is thinking about. If it took him that long to get a job, of course he doesn't want to go through that again. It's all very well saying "Oh he can just move to me", but how is he going to be able to support himself? What if his savings run out and dwindle before he can find a job in Canada? I have a friend who wants to move there and from what he's told me, if you don't have the skills they are looking for at them time, there's no way of getting in, and what's the point of him going back to school when he's in a job he's happy with now?

When it comes to any move, but especially an international one, finances are very important, and if he's moving with no guarantee of financial stability on your end i.e. he won't have a job, that is very scary and quite frankly, a stupid idea in my opinion. It's all very romantic moving to be with the one you love, but when you're struggling to pay rent or buy groceries, the "romance factor" starts to mean very little. I am making the move, because my SO is financially set-up, and makes more then enough money to support us both, whereas I will be fresh out of college and I have a lot of options as to what I'm doing next. Even then, when I know he can support me, the thought of moving all that way with no job at the end of it scares me to no end. I am giving up being close to my family, who are very important to me, but I have decided that is a sacrifice I have to make. Though I do have the luxury of knowing that my SO would most definitely move here if I asked him too, as he has offered several times.

At the end of the day, I think he is thinking with his head and you are thinking with your heart, and it's clashing hard here. The both of you have stated what you want, and are sticking to that, so something will have to give. Like LMH said, if he's sticking to his guns and you won't think of moving to him, then I think it's time to leave this in the past, because I don't think there's much to compromise on here.

[Riyko]

I know it's a lot of text and a lot of information to digest (I had to read a couple paragraphs twice over, myself) but it does help to try to read everything since you might miss important details such as why she won't consider moving to him.

I read her reason why she won't move to him, but I avoided posting about it in my post

[LadyMarchHare]

I read her reason why she won't move to him, but I avoided posting about it in my post

You missed my point which was it doesn't really help the OP when you pick and choose how much of their post you're going to read and then give advice because you will most likely miss important details.

[TknandLvnIt]

So I read the post and I agree with Mara and say that the first step is to determine if you want to be in a relationship. You got into the relationship with the understanding that you were miles apart and one day you would close the distance and be near each other. One thing that bothered me about this post was the pressure that you are putting on your SO. I understand and respect your reasoning for not wanting to move but in my opinion it sounds slightly selfish. I understand that previously he didn't have the same things keeping him where he is but now seemingly as he is finding himself through a job he is beginning to rethink his willingness to drop everything and be with you. I personally could not be with my SO if i did not know that he would be willing to at least offer to make the same sacrifices that I am willing to make for him. I understand your hurt and frustration because your relationship ended simply because there seemed to be no possibility of ever closing the distance. I think one of the things that you should talk to him about is why he changed his mind about it...I can't imagine it just being the job. I'm sure that you two have a healthy loving relationship and you probably are the best thing in his life, but I don't think there is anything wrong with him rethinking his stand on moving or on you meeting him halfway. My SO and I are planning for me to move out there for the summer every year where I could work at his job at an afterschool program until we can get engaged and close the distance. Perhaps you can find a middle ground like that in your relationship. I hope this helps.

[Shizu]

First off, thanks for all the replies I'll try to clarify a few things in this post.

First and foremost, I think the two of you need to decide if you are going to be together or not. If you are going to be together, I think this is an issue that needs to be worked on inside of the relationship.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, and while it does sound like something we should be doing, we've both agreed that... ultimately, we don't want to get back together only to break up again. The closing the distance thing is a major issue that we feel needs to be solved before we can get back into a relationship. After all, if we get back together, try to solve it but still come up with no solutions... we'd end up having to break up again and it would hurt us both even more.

You must understand here, it's all well having the "who will move" talk, but you DO need to think of all the financial aspects too, which is what your SO is thinking about. If it took him that long to get a job, of course he doesn't want to go through that again. It's all very well saying "Oh he can just move to me", but how is he going to be able to support himself? What if his savings run out and dwindle before he can find a job in Canada? I have a friend who wants to move there and from what he's told me, if you don't have the skills they are looking for at them time, there's no way of getting in, and what's the point of him going back to school when he's in a job he's happy with now?

When it comes to any move, but especially an international one, finances are very important, and if he's moving with no guarantee of financial stability on your end i.e. he won't have a job, that is very scary and quite frankly, a stupid idea in my opinion. It's all very romantic moving to be with the one you love, but when you're struggling to pay rent or buy groceries, the "romance factor" starts to mean very little.

He isn't happy with the job though. He's happy that he HAS a job finally, yes. The job itself is stressing him out to no end so it isn't like he's going in to his 'dream job' every day. I know that he's happy having gotten a job but I guess I don't feel the same attachment to a job than I do with people, so it makes it a little hard for me to grasp the importance he's putting on it (besides the financial side of course). I'm not sure if this is important either, but I'll add this in here... His job right now is not related to the degree he graduated with, so I asked if he would consider going back to school to get a degree in another field he'd like (so he would have more career choices, plus a 2nd undergrad degree only takes 2 years at most) PLUS I think it would be easier for him to get into Canada that way. He feels that if he did this, he'd be moving backwards ._.

There seems to be a misconception that I am forcing him to move before he's ready, or before I have a job of my own. I DO NOT expect him to move up here if I am still unemployed. As you've said that IS quite stupid to move to another country without any financial support. Again, it will take me at least a year and a half (or 2 years) to graduate and I don't expect him to move up here before then either. I do want to find a job so that I can save up to help with the transition and to prepare for the fact that he won't be able to find a job right away, maybe not even for months.

One thing that bothered me about this post was the pressure that you are putting on your SO. I understand and respect your reasoning for not wanting to move but in my opinion it sounds slightly selfish. I understand that previously he didn't have the same things keeping him where he is but now seemingly as he is finding himself through a job he is beginning to rethink his willingness to drop everything and be with you. I personally could not be with my SO if i did not know that he would be willing to at least offer to make the same sacrifices that I am willing to make for him.

I know it sounds selfish of me, but the same could be said for him no? Either way one of us has to move. I never hid the fact that I don't want to move and he has always told me he would. I don't really see where I'm pressuring him =(

Shortly after our break up, he asked if I would consider moving down to him for 2 months after I graduate to see if I like it down there/could live there. I said yes. I was totally willing to do that for him but I asked him what would happen if I decided that I couldn't live down there? He didn't have an answer and decided it would be best not to get back together until we have figured it out. Now though, I'm not sure if it's even an option anymore...

I have no idea what else we could do to meet halfway @_@ He thinks the idea of us both moving somewhere else is ridiculous.

Honestly i didn't read the whole post, but one thing i do have to tell you is, it's not as easy as you'd think for him to move up to canada to be with you, there are a lot of steps you have to go through when finding a job (I know i went though all of them) where as it'd be a lot easier for you to get a job in the states and move there because there are less requirements for you..

Riyko, if you don't mind me asking could you detail how you went about moving? What you had to do, forms, the process, etc.?

I have no experience with it at all and while I've asked U.S -> Canada transplants here they're mostly students and go the 'student' route. When I've asked older people about it they always tell me they'd love to help but every situation is different. I know every situation is different but it'd be nice to see exactly what I could possibly expect, and to see how hard it really is, or what my SO would have to go through. There's no better information than from someone who's gone through it before, right?

I guess I'm really idealistic sometimes, and I'll admit while I know finances are important, I don't think I'm as prepared for it as I should be. I don't know how much we'll both need to save up, but if anyone has had experience moving internationally, or just moving in general, it'd be nice to have a rough ballpark of how much money I'd need =]

[Mara]

I'm sorry if I missed this, but is he against moving to you then if you have a job and presumably he has savings? I suppose what I am getting at is he absolutely against the idea of moving to you now?

I do feel though that since this isn't an immediate concern the two of you are sort of putting the carriage before the horse. It's sort of what you did before as well. The two of you always thought and talked about that he would be the one to move now he seems hesitant and it's causing conflict. Honestly, I just think it's really hard to say what will be possible or what will happen when something is years in the future.

For example, even if the two of you get back together on the pretense that he will move to you when you have a job, what if you don't find a job right after graduation or really not for some time? Then, what if you do, but the job isn't even enough to cover your expenses less alone enough to supplement his when his savings would eventually run out.

What if in this time he does get his dream job where he lives? Or what if he gets laid off from his job and is unable to find another one for some time and then the two of you can't close the distance because of financial reasons?

My point being is when something is years away there are too many possible variables to just say this is what we'll do, this is how I feel. I honestly think in your situation as well the two of you both need to be more flexible.

Of course, planning is necessary in any relationship and especially in a LDR, but you really can't get too detailed. I think if the both of you could just agree to be willing to be flexible and compromise and do what is necessary to close the distance that would be an excellent start.

[Riyko]

Riyko, if you don't mind me asking could you detail how you went about moving? What you had to do, forms, the process, etc.?

I have no experience with it at all and while I've asked U.S -> Canada transplants here they're mostly students and go the 'student' route. When I've asked older people about it they always tell me they'd love to help but every situation is different. I know every situation is different but it'd be nice to see exactly what I could possibly expect, and to see how hard it really is, or what my SO would have to go through. There's no better information than from someone who's gone through it before, right?

I went to school up here in Canada, i didn't graduate though so i didn't get the post grad work permit, so i'm just on a regular work permit. It depends on the route he wants to go, all i did was apply for a job, got the job and sent in the forms for a work permit, but then in my case it could be different because i have canadian experience. What he'd have to do is apply for jobs interview and if they decide to hire him, he has to ask about the LMO (labor market opinion) basically that is where the HR department of the Canadian government says that he can do the job because there isn't any suitable canadians for the job. If he gets a positive one then he'll have to apply for a work permit which will only be good for 2 years.

What is he going to school for?

[Shizu]

I'm sorry if I missed this, but is he against moving to you then if you have a job and presumably he has savings? I suppose what I am getting at is he absolutely against the idea of moving to you now?

I think he is against it... I'm not entirely sure because he keeps waffling back and forth on it as well. He did say that if I got a job it would 'help', so I'll say he's open to the idea but still feels like moving up here would be impossible.

Oh, and he's graduated with a BA in English. I suggested going back to school because he still isn't sure what he wants to do for a career, he just wants to have a full-time job