First Fight

[rori795]

Tonight we had our first argument as a couple.

He and I are very different in our moral beliefs. I am very Liberal, open-minded, not too religious, etc. He is also somewhat liberal, but is strict Catholic and pretty much against drinking and doing drugs. I don't do drugs, but for whatever reason he felt the need to tell me tonight on the phone that he's against people doing drugs.

And it's not like I drink all of the time. I drink sometimes, socially with friends... maybe once or twice a month I'll have one or two drinks.

i explained to him that I was not raised Catholic, but I am open-minded and would be willing to attend church if that's what it takes...

I don't know what brought this on, but something must have. I am scared to death that I'm going to lose him over things that I think are silly and am willing to compromise over. I would chose him over alcohol and/or religion any day. It was a pretty big blowout on the phone. A lot of accusations and crying (on my end).

I just don't even know what to do. Religion and drinking are not even issues for me, and I'm scared that something that I don't even have a preference on is going to effect my relationship traumatically.

I can't think clearly because it's like 3:30 in the morning here, and I'm exhausted and tear-y and I just want to go to sleep, but I am very upset right now. If those are stipulations to our relationship then why did he even bother in the first place? He knew all of this about me going into it.

I'm so worried that this is going to ruin our relationship.

[Mara]

I'm sorry that the two of you fought. A lot of times fights make things seem worse than they are. He has already chosen to be in a relationship with you despite your differences and he obviously cares for you a great deal. No one has everything in common with their partner. When you've both had some time to collect yourselves maybe you could talk about things and clear the air.

[rori795]

I actually like that we don't have everything in common. I think it makes us interesting. But what he actually said to me on the phone last night was something along the lines of, "I want to marry a Catholic girl and that's what's important to me. I don't know if we're going to work out." If he feels that way then why did we even get into a relationship? It's not like I hid it from him or something... he's known me since high school.

And it's not like I've ever said anything against religion or Catholicism. I haven't! Because honestly, I don't trash things that I know he cares about. I wouldn't trash religion anyway. I honestly don't care enough to trash it.

[WakeUpSusie]

Honestly, if he is straight up going to tell you who you need to be and what you need to act like in order to be "good enough" for him to be in a long term relationship with/marry, you deserve better.

[books]

First fights are the worst. The good thing is fights do help to bring issues to light, as this one seems to have. How long have you guys been a couple? I think an issue as serious as this one should really be talked out. The fact that you mention your SO is a "strict Catholic" is something you'll want to explore further with him. What does that mean, what does he expect in a partner? Both my SO & I are Catholic, though hardly strict, we see nothing wrong with social drinking in moderation. I'd be curious to know how much his actual beliefs about drinking/drugs originate from religion. I say this b/c I do attend mass regularly and there is much more focus on being honest/showing love to others/helping others than there is preaching the evils of drinking/drugs. I mean, you said you are willing to attend mass and that shows right there you are open minded of his religion. If that is not enough for him, than short of you converting your belief system completely to match his, what does he want? If you two are not a match it's better you find that out now than trying to live up to something you're not.

[rori795]

We have been a couple for almost four months, but have been good friends for probably about six or seven years. I honestly don't have any idea whether his ideas about drinking and drugs come from his religion -- he lumps them all together as if they do, but like books said, Church doesn't tend to focus on those things that much in my experience. He knows me well enough to know that I'm a "good" person. I try to always do the right thing, I do a ton of volunteer work, I work with the elderly and get paid barely anything (but that's okay with me, because I love my job and I love making a difference to my clients,and money is not what makes my life meaningful)... I'm trying to be the best person I know how to be and it worries me that it seems like that's not enough for him.

I'm waiting to hear from him. He said he will call me today when he is able to (he's in the air force, so it's hard for him to always get a chance to call). I agree that we really do need to talk this out, and I need to understand why exactly being a good person isn't enough for him, and why in his mind, it's only okay if I'm Catholic.

[Rosebud]

Honestly, if he is straight up going to tell you who you need to be and what you need to act like in order to be "good enough" for him to be in a long term relationship with/marry, you deserve better.

He isn't saying "what's good enough" for him, he saying what's highly important to him, which is a very different thing-especially since like it or not, religion and ethics are two areas that can be a very big deal for some people. It has nothing to do with "better", it's wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone who shares your core values and I can't see why that's so wrong.

[Moon]

This is interesting, having been raised Catholic. His stance on drinking does not stem from Catholicism, when I was in Catholic grade school, for example, it was considered a privilege to take the milk left from the milkman and put it in the nun's or priest's refrigerators in the convent and rectory (we got to leave class ), anyway, both refrigerators were always well stocked with beer. Some of our priests and nuns would show us their personal pictures, and there were always baseball game pics, and both always had a beer in their hand! Picnics, family functions, whatever! Also, wine plays a huge part in the Catholic mass, as Christ's "blood". Also, you'll almost never go to a Catholic fundraiser where alcohol isn't involved

I think he's using his religion as an excuse for his anti-alcohol ideals. It's OK to be against alcohol (and drugs), nothing wrong with that, but he needs to talk about the real reasons he feels that way and not use the cloak of religion to hide behind with someone who's not Catholic, and doesn't know better. Trust me, Catholics are anything but anti-alcohol.

It sounds a little like he's afraid, maybe your relationship is getting too intense and it's scaring him? Guys can be funny that way. I think you should read up on Roman Catholicism, and attend a few masses, even on your own, just to educate yourself and show him you're willing to learn about it for him. I'm an atheist now, but I still find the mass to be a beautiful ritual, when I'm forced to go for a wedding, funeral or baptism. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.

***Edited to add: Just saw you're in the Philly area, me too

[Minerva]

He isn't saying "what's good enough" for him, he saying what's highly important to him, which is a very different thing-especially since like it or not, religion and ethics are two areas that can be a very big deal for some people. It has nothing to do with "better", it's wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone who shares your core values and I can't see why that's so wrong.

What's wrong is pursuing a relationship with someone who doesn't share your core values. I think that's very wrong. He led her on, and now he wants her to change or he'll hold the relationship hostage. She accepts him, he doesn't accept her. After being good friends for at least 6 years, he knew her values. You should never get with someone hoping they'll change. You should only get with someone if you love them as they are.

Rori, I'm sorry, but he just doesn't seem very flexible in this. I'm not down with people who are not my mom telling me if I can drink or how to live my life -- I don't think anyone should have to put up with that. I hate to say it, but because your core values clash and he's not as accepting as you are, I can't see this working out. Even if you throw out the Catholic thing, the fact that he's trying to control your actions is worrying (while he may not be directly saying it, he is implying the relationship won't work out because of how you live your life. It's manipulative to the nth degree). Huge red flag. And you're willing to bend very far to make him happy, while he remains rigid. Another red flag. He's not going to change his views, just as you're not going to suddenly become a good Catholic girl.

Differences are awesome, but some are just too much to overcome. Couples can have differences and still be compatible, because they're both looking out at the world and seeing similar things. It doesn't sound like the two of you are doing that. Maybe you're better friends than lovers. It just seems that ultimately, you'd both be happier with people who are more compatible.

Good luck.

[Dziubka]

I was going to write that Catholicism isn't anti-alcohol at all, but fortunately Moon took care of that for me
I'm not Catholic (my boyfriend is) but as far as I know it's gluttony/immoderateness that's not allowed. I have friends who confess when they've had a few drinks too much, but an occasional drink is not considered a sin.

I agree with what Minerva said, though. You can of course stop drinking for him and you're free to do so if that makes him happy and you want to make him happy. Everyone's different and has different limits in relationships. For me personally, it would be taking things too far if my boyfriend tried to tell me what to drink. As long as it's in reasonable measures and not dangerous to my health, I eat and drink whatever I feel like.

[stacyrose]

First fights are very difficult, and I have a somewhat similar situation. We are both Christians, but he was brought up far stricter about most things, drugs and alcohol for sure, but also, gay marriage.

While I am also Christian I am strongly pro gay and pro gay marriage. We have gotten into several arguments about it and it hit a point where he would shove Biblical guilt on me and make me feel like my opinion was wrong. That was a long time ago, and as time passed and he realized I wasn't changing my views, he learned to accept them and respect them because he loves me, even if he won't encourage or agree with some of my views.

My best advice is to NEVER compromise what you believe in, no matter how much you love them. If they love you they will eventually realize you won't always agree on things, but to love you regardless and agree to disagree. If you don't stick by what you believe in then they can possibly think to manipulate you into other things later on, so just stay strong. Give it time, and try and have a talk to figure out exactly what the problem is, and if you don't agree, just agree to respect eachother regardless.

[Ianthe]

First fights are awful, especially when they're on such a hot-button topic. There aren't very many things that get people's blood boiling like religion...

I know that you say you don't mind going to church, not drinking, etc...however, be prepared that it may not stop there. What's going to happen if he wants you to convert to Catholicism? Are you prepared to drop your beliefs for another? If you're lukewarm about faith and he's devout, will he be angry that you're not "Catholic enough"? What if you go out to a bachelorette party for a friend and he blows a gasket because you smell like smoke or, god forbid, you innocently took a sip of a friend's drink?

To give you my personal anecdote...when I was a silly high school girl, I met a very VERY cute, sweet, funny boy while attending my friend's church. I was pretty lukewarm about religion, but when he and I started dating, I quickly realized that it would have to be his way or no way...so I became Christian for him. (Sort of.) I did everything right, but his family still ended up persuading him to break things off with me because I wasn't devout enough. The relationship and the breakup really did a number on my self-esteem for YEARS...Even though I changed so much for him, I was still the "bad person" and the cause for the breakup. And then I realized that I could never ever have kept up that lifestyle for him, and it would have been living a lie, not fair to either of us.

Don't get me wrong, I believe interfaith couples can work. But there absolutely HAS to be mutual respect for each other's beliefs and feelings. I'll admit that I don't know much about Catholicism, but I knew many Christian pastors who discouraged their members from being in relationships with non-believers. So that's another thing to keep in mind...will his personal faith allow him to respect your personal faith? Most importantly, will he respect you, and if you change so much for him (because it won't stop at this), will you be able to respect yourself?

I agree with Minerva...he should never have started a relationship with you in the hopes that you would change. I'm sorry you're going through this.

He is probably coming from a good place in his head as he may worry for your soul. Just tell him all the best parties are Down Below. (Just kidding.)

[Tanja]

I don't know anything about religions (and I'm an atheist) but I'm pretty sure that wine is included everywhere when it comes to rituals in religions?? At least there was a lot of it in the bible!

Seriously though: You having an occasional drink with friends or alone should not be a breaking point in your relationship. If it is then he's got some sort of a controlling obsession and you're better off without him. Most likely though he just hates drinking in general and can't really cave to the idea that not all people who drink get wasted and act stupid.

My SO doesn't drink but he's never been against me drinking. He's never once told me that I couldn't do it. Having a glass of wine at night or with friends is a part of my life and if he couldn't understand that then tough on him.

I think you just need to have a calm talk about this all, maybe it's turned out to be a much bigger deal than it is? If he's known you for years then surely he knows you drink occasionally and yet he was still willing to start a relationship with you. If on the other hand he wants to change you to meet his requirements I say get out and fast, you're better off just being friends.

[Jezah]

*low whistle* I was in this exact same pickle for 4 years with my ex, it was a CDR, in fact we lived together. Only advice I can give is be careful. I was a wiccan, open minded and liked to have fun and slowly over 4 years he took all of those qualities away from me. I became a church goer and a domestic kinda woman....and it gradually led to resentment. Just going to church my not be enough for him, it wasn't for my ex...he wanted the whole shabang. The 'good girl' who loved God above all others, never drank except a glass of wine, cooked, cleaned.

I now have found HBB and he loves me for ME, feisty, open minded, hotheaded and loving to party. I am not saying you are those things, but you also don't sound like the kinda church girl he claims to want. Just ask yourself if you really want to change yourself to be with someone, because I did and I tell you its my biggest regret. Its just not worth it for any guy. Find the one who loves YOU for exactly who you are now....not your potential

[Minerva]

Don't get me wrong, I believe interfaith couples can work. But there absolutely HAS to be mutual respect for each other's beliefs and feelings. I'll admit that I don't know much about Catholicism, but I knew many Christian pastors who discouraged their members from being in relationships with non-believers. So that's another thing to keep in mind...will his personal faith allow him to respect your personal faith? Most importantly, will he respect you, and if you change so much for him (because it won't stop at this), will you be able to respect yourself?(Just kidding.)

Yeah, just to put my personal spin on it: my mom is Catholic, my dad was Jewish. The thing is, though, neither was devout. My mom would buy matzah and gefilte fish, and during the holidays, she'd get out the menorah and light the candles, all trying to bring my dad's faith into our lives, but honestly, he didn't care. He liked Christmas more than Hanukkah, so that's what we celebrated, heh. My mom's family accepted him, but his family never really accepted my mom or me, and since I was about 15, I've had no contact with his side of the family.

So interfaith can work, but it means BOTH have to want it to work. Either it's not a huge deal to each person, or you both have to be open-minded enough to accept someone else has a different beliefs. Unfortunately, that can be hard with religion. If someone is devout, in most religions that means marrying someone within the religion.

(I should note that my parents did eventually divorce, though it had nothing to do with faith. In fact my dad was remarried to a Christian fundamentalist.)