Making-up - LDR-style?

[FireflyGal]

Aw, lunamea, I totally understand. It's such a frustrating experience. And every pair of people is different, so it makes it that much harder to figure out how to get through things. I know, when I get really frustrated and find myself in that position, I usually have to say, "Hey, look, I know you don't want to do this and I know it's not fun, but can we talk about this? I'm really upset, and I'm hurt that such and such happened, and here's why. What are you feeling? What are you thinking? How can I be better at this from your perspective, and what do you think of this idea? Do you think you could help me out by doing blah blah blah next time? I know it's not your cup of tea, but it would really make things easier for me, with you gone and everything...." Which can be a frustrating conversation to have when you really just want him to KNOW that this is what's going on....

Agh, sometimes it feels like it is so impossible! Hang in there! You'll get through it!

[lunamea]

Thanks for the responses. I feel like I should keep you guys updated on what I've decided to do about this. It might not make much sense to you if you haven't read my other posts, though. Basically, what I felt was the initial problem is that my husband constantly feels pressurized to do things he doesn't like and he only does them for me. A few months ago, we had a big fight because he didn't want to talk everyday and even though we settled it for a while, that argument is coming back again now. He knows that the daily contact is important to me, but he obviously thinks it leads to us fighting.

So much for the background story. What I did in response to him not wanting to make up is that I first wrote him a cute ecard and we made up - for like a few hours, until we got into a fight again! So, now I'm really trying to change things.
First off, I make him write or text/call me when he wants to talk and I then call him if I have time (he can't really call me because it's too expensive), but that way, he won't ever be in a situation where he feels forced to talk to me when he doesn't feel like it. I told him that if he doesn't write me that he wants to talk, I simply won't call him. I leave it completely up to him.
Next thing, I'm not making any extra effort to talk to him anymore. If it fits my schedule and I feel like it (and he wants to talk), I will call him, if I'd rather do something else, I will not talk to him that day at all. I did this today - I knew that he was going to leave to meet friends and go clubbing in the early evening and I could've theoretically talked to him before he left, but I was really tired coming back from class and decided I'd rather sleep. I just have to make myself care as little as he and make myself the priority instead of him, because anything else will just ruin my self-esteem over time.

[Caitlin2009]

Thanks for the responses. I feel like I should keep you guys updated on what I've decided to do about this. It might not make much sense to you if you haven't read my other posts, though. Basically, what I felt was the initial problem is that my husband constantly feels pressurized to do things he doesn't like and he only does them for me. A few months ago, we had a big fight because he didn't want to talk everyday and even though we settled it for a while, that argument is coming back again now. He knows that the daily contact is important to me, but he obviously thinks it leads to us fighting.

So much for the background story. What I did in response to him not wanting to make up is that I first wrote him a cute ecard and we made up - for like a few hours, until we got into a fight again! So, now I'm really trying to change things.
First off, I make him write or text/call me when he wants to talk and I then call him if I have time (he can't really call me because it's too expensive), but that way, he won't ever be in a situation where he feels forced to talk to me when he doesn't feel like it. I told him that if he doesn't write me that he wants to talk, I simply won't call him. I leave it completely up to him.
Next thing, I'm not making any extra effort to talk to him anymore. If it fits my schedule and I feel like it (and he wants to talk), I will call him, if I'd rather do something else, I will not talk to him that day at all. I did this today - I knew that he was going to leave to meet friends and go clubbing in the early evening and I could've theoretically talked to him before he left, but I was really tired coming back from class and decided I'd rather sleep. I just have to make myself care as little as he and make myself the priority instead of him, because anything else will just ruin my self-esteem over time.

:/ i dont like that, communication is the key to any relationship even more so in LDR, if you dont have that then other things soon go out the window as well. not wanting to talk everyday is gonna lead to not wanting to talk at all, i dunno to me i kinda sense there are other things wrong on his side of things

[lunamea]

:/ i dont like that, communication is the key to any relationship even more so in LDR, if you dont have that then other things soon go out the window as well. not wanting to talk everyday is gonna lead to not wanting to talk at all, i dunno to me i kinda sense there are other things wrong on his side of things

Hm, I don't know. I guess he might still hold a grudge because I "left" him to go study abroad... long story short: he said he was fine with it at first and I only found out a week before I left that he had actually kinda been wishing all this time (that the application process took) that I wouldn't follow through with it but at the same time he didn't want to hold me back or make me feel guilty, so I think he's still pretending that this LDR thing is not getting to him when it actually is and he might in fact still blame me for feeling lonely etc. ... Sometimes I think that, without admitting it, he'll never forgive me for having done that, because I sometimes get the feeling that he thinks if I would love him enough, I wouldn't have left.

So, that could be an explanation for it. A much more practical reason is that we do fight quite some when we talk, usually over little things that bring up much bigger problems that were never resolved. The "how often do we talk" issue, for example, was never truly resolved, partly because I felt his refusal to talk everyday was just him getting back at me, as mentioned above. I told him that it's very important to me to talk daily and so we kinda made a compromise that we would talk every day if both of us felt like it and that I wouldn't make him talk if he was tired/grumpy etc. That worked for a while and we would frequently put convos off to the next day when we sensed we were both in a mood that would only lead to a fight. Sooner rather than later, we were back to fighting almost every day, though. Then I spent the beginning of winter break at a friend's in CA where I didn't have internet, so I couldn't talk to him everyday and that did improve things. Then again, I also went back home right after the vacation in CA, so that could be us looking forward to me coming home, too. We spent the 10 days I was back home first fighting a lot, but then being really good and talking a lot and ultimately mending fences. The two months after I got back where just great, we didn't fight once and were really happy and talked for at least an hour everyday. Now, ever since a month, we're back to arguing, about the same issues again and again, so I'm just so tired of it by now and I guess so is he, so at least not talking means not fighting...

[Caitlin2009]

Hm, I don't know. I guess he might still hold a grudge because I "left" him to go study abroad... long story short: he said he was fine with it at first and I only found out a week before I left that he had actually kinda been wishing all this time (that the application process took) that I wouldn't follow through with it but at the same time he didn't want to hold me back or make me feel guilty, so I think he's still pretending that this LDR thing is not getting to him when it actually is and he might in fact still blame me for feeling lonely etc. ... Sometimes I think that, without admitting it, he'll never forgive me for having done that, because I sometimes get the feeling that he thinks if I would love him enough, I wouldn't have left.

So, that could be an explanation for it. A much more practical reason is that we do fight quite some when we talk, usually over little things that bring up much bigger problems that were never resolved. The "how often do we talk" issue, for example, was never truly resolved, partly because I felt his refusal to talk everyday was just him getting back at me, as mentioned above. I told him that it's very important to me to talk daily and so we kinda made a compromise that we would talk every day if both of us felt like it and that I wouldn't make him talk if he was tired/grumpy etc. That worked for a while and we would frequently put convos off to the next day when we sensed we were both in a mood that would only lead to a fight. Sooner rather than later, we were back to fighting almost every day, though. Then I spent the beginning of winter break at a friend's in CA where I didn't have internet, so I couldn't talk to him everyday and that did improve things. Then again, I also went back home right after the vacation in CA, so that could be us looking forward to me coming home, too. We spent the 10 days I was back home first fighting a lot, but then being really good and talking a lot and ultimately mending fences. The two months after I got back where just great, we didn't fight once and were really happy and talked for at least an hour everyday. Now, ever since a month, we're back to arguing, about the same issues again and again, so I'm just so tired of it by now and I guess so is he, so at least not talking means not fighting...

what that tells me is eventually you two are gonna break up from not talking, and it also sounds like to me when you decided to study abroad i could be wrong but did you even discuss with him first? or did you make the decision on your own before even telling him about it?? If thats the case.....that was a bad idea, and im not trying to run your life or anything but i think going to study abroad may have been a bad decision, i just dont see anything good coming out of it, you guys are fighting and while thats normal especially for LDR's its not normal to have a "oh we'll just talk whenever" type of attitude, that kinda tells me your love for each other is slowly dying and you need to fix it ASAP! What im wondering is why you couldn't study where you live?? no local collages where you are?

[lunamea]

what that tells me is eventually you two are gonna break up from not talking, and it also sounds like to me when you decided to study abroad i could be wrong but did you even discuss with him first? or did you make the decision on your own before even telling him about it?? If thats the case.....that was a bad idea, and im not trying to run your life or anything but i think going to study abroad may have been a bad decision, i just dont see anything good coming out of it, you guys are fighting and while thats normal especially for LDR's its not normal to have a "oh we'll just talk whenever" type of attitude, that kinda tells me your love for each other is slowly dying and you need to fix it ASAP! What im wondering is why you couldn't study where you live?? no local collages where you are?

Well, let me give you a few facts:

• I am majoring in English and American Studies at my home university in Austria, and specializing in American Cultural Studies, so a year in the US is vital to my academic career.
  
• I met my (now) husband for the first time the same week I applied to go study abroad the first time in 2005. Great timing, I know. A few months after, we had become pretty serious and I was granted a placement at the University of Minnesota. I didn't want to leave then but see where we were going, so I cancelled the process, knowing that I might never get the same chance again. Even then, I always said that my year abroad was only put off until a later date and we agreed that I would definitely go when we had settled in etc.
  
• We moved in together and got married, I took up a job to support us and neglected my studies (I hardly took classes for 2 years because I had to work 30 hrs/week as a call center agent.) When my husband got a job, too, I reduced my weekly hours to 20 and took up my studies again.
  
• Three years after my first application, I applied to go study abroad again and got a placement at the University of Minnesota again. We had been hoping that my husband could come with, but after looking at the financial and visa situation, we knew we didn't stand a chance to go together. Even if we had had enough money or my hb would've gotten a visa, we would have left his job, the apartment and our cat. He would not have been able to work in the US and I can only work on-campus, too, so that's a whole year of spending money while not making any. Plus, the study abroad experience would've been really different for me - I probably wouldn't have made a lot of friends because I would've spent all my time with my husband (who doesn't speak English), studying and doing household stuff.
  
• My semester ends in a month and my return flight is scheduled 50 days from now. I don't regret going abroad at all, because I always gave him the option of telling me he cannot do it any longer and if he had said that, I would've left everything and come home. I visited for 10 days halfway through my stay (winter break) and paid the ticket (approx. $1000) all by myself because he refused to split the cost. He never said that he can't take me being away or that he wants me to come back home, but now everything I say or do he interprets as criticizing him and controlling his life. He makes me feel he's gotten used to being on his own and he enjoys it that way because he can do whatever he feels like.

I guess I will see things differently if we do end up separating, but right now, I have no regrets. A good friend of mine majored in the same field as me and never went to study in an English-speaking country because she didn't want to leave her boyfriend. Now, guess who was the one to go abroad for post-graduate study, leaving her behind, the first chance he got? Exactly. So, yeah, they went LD for some time and then, unsurprisingly, she dumped him. I haven't talked openly about it to her, but I know part of her regrets not having gone abroad. I never wanted that regret, but if my hb and me split up as a direct consequence of me going abroad, I'll have to live with that, too.

I think you're right in saying it's a bad sign and we're headed that way, but I have no idea how to fix things nor do I think I'm the one alone responsible for the fixing. I know I'm being defensive, but I can no longer make an effort for someone who is not willing to make an effort himself. And in the long run, I can't be with someone who makes me feel I'm not even worth making an effort, that I'm anything but a priority.

[Caitlin2009]

i understand that, but its goes both ways too. You have to be willing to meet each other half way with this, the both of you especially YOU! and i swear im not trying to take sides but this is what i feel is going on, it seems like you care more about your future career then him, he should be your number 1 priority and i think your forgetting that. Yeah ok career is important but family is more important that should be your number one priority, what i get from him is complete frusteration because i think he wants to be with you but for some odd reason your making this career choice top priority in life more so then anything else, and he doesnt like that. I understand wanting to get a better eduacation for a future career with better money but if its affecting your relationship's with him and pretty much everybody in your life, you gotta take a step back and figure out what you want more in your life right now. I know it doesnt sound fair but this is something you need to do! You know to fix your relationship but as you have said you both are pretty stubborn so that is affecting how you wanna fix it, there is a way to but only you can figure that out

[lunamea]

Needless to say, I disagree. The way I see it is this: If everyone on here would make their SO their top priority and give up their own lives for them, then most of these couples wouldn't be LD in the first place!! Anyone can give up their job and their family, move to a different country, get married and stay together forever with that one person, but not everyone is ready to do that because frequently it means giving up your other goals in life. I don't believe in making your SO your only priority in life or in living your life for someone else. We are married, that means we're supposed to stick together and support the other one in what they're doing. I made many sacrifices and helped my husband a lot throughout the years, I deserve to be able to fulfill one of my life's dreams.

Oh, yeah, and the "odd reason I'm making this career choice my top priority" is called self-fulfillment. It's what I've wanted for most of my life and, while I also think family is very important, I don't believe that, at the end of the day, you should put everyone's needs over your own all the time. I think you don't necessarily need to make a choice between family and career, you should be able to have both in your life.

It's also not like I was gone indefinitely or for the whole course of my studies, but I'm away for 9 months all in all and he agreed to let me go. For me, that was a sign that he loved me unconditionally and supported me in everything I do, but I can't fix anything if he keeps holding a grudge and punishing me for going when we made the decision together.

[Caitlin2009]

I wasent saying give up on everything to be one another no no....sorry let me try to like explain(not really good at that so bear with me) I meant sure he should have said something to you when you said you were gonna do that and now he probably regrets saying it, but it seems like your more focusing on your future career then your relationship with him which seems to be a little bit rocky at the moment. You gotta wanna try to repair whatever's wrong its not something that you can put on hold. and im hoping that made more sense

[Mio]

I'm the one that normally get stuck in the problem, and my so forget super fast. But we have a rule, never go to bed angry, I talk about the problem to the end!

[Lumos]

i understand that, but its goes both ways too. You have to be willing to meet each other half way with this, the both of you especially YOU! and i swear im not trying to take sides but this is what i feel is going on, it seems like you care more about your future career then him, he should be your number 1 priority and i think your forgetting that. Yeah ok career is important but family is more important that should be your number one priority, what i get from him is complete frusteration because i think he wants to be with you but for some odd reason your making this career choice top priority in life more so then anything else, and he doesnt like that. I understand wanting to get a better eduacation for a future career with better money but if its affecting your relationship's with him and pretty much everybody in your life, you gotta take a step back and figure out what you want more in your life right now. I know it doesnt sound fair but this is something you need to do! You know to fix your relationship but as you have said you both are pretty stubborn so that is affecting how you wanna fix it, there is a way to but only you can figure that out

I don't agree with this at all. A relationship is made of two people who may have different goals, and they have to support each other to make it work. As you said, luna, studying abroad is important to your education, and I would have chosen the same thing. I was actually in a similar situation myself.

My major is Japanese, and I got really close to my SO right before I left to study abroad in Japan for 4 months. I wanted to cancel because I thought it might affect our relationship, (even though we weren't even dating at the time), but I had already been accepted and gone through most of the processes involved in getting ready to go. My SO encouraged me to go, even though I was getting cold feet, because he knew it was important to me. Studying abroad isn't something you can easily do once you've graduated and started your career; if I hadn't gone, I would always be wondering "What if?".

Like I said, we weren't even dating at the time, but we still managed to make time for each other every day. The longest we went without talking was the 14 hours I spent on the plane. It was probably a bit easier for us since we're both students and neither of us was working, so we were able to sacrifice our sleeping schedules quite a bit.

From what I've seen on here, other couples are different, but if my SO wasn't up to talking to me on a daily basis (unless there are extreme circumstances), I would take it personally. I don't think talking to me should be giving him "pressure". I feel he should want to talk to me. If I was told that, it would make me feel pretty insecure. I love talking to my SO. If I could spend all day talking to him, I would. Our conversations aren't always meaningful, but I love them anyway. I don't know what I would do if he didn't feel the same :S

Although you did choose to study abroad and "leave him", he said he was okay with it, and I don't think there was any selfishness on your part. Besides, if it helps your career, it's better for both of you, right? I can understand him not being completely happy with you leaving simply because he'd miss you, but if that's the case, why doesn't he want to spend more time talking to you? It just doesn't make sense to me. From what you've said it sounds like you're the one making all the effort. I have pretty low self-esteem, and tend to read too much into things, so that's how I'd be interpreting his actions.

As for arguing, we never have. If one us feels hurt we tend to get mopey instead of angry. Usually we just try to get to the root of the problem, and then cheer each other up. I've found that cheering him up is pretty emotionally draining though. I usually end up feeling just as bummed as he does :P

[Caitlin2009]

I have horrible time trying to explain things from time to time i just hope you know what i mean and what im trying to get at

[lunamea]

Thanks for your reply, Lumos! It's nice to hear from someone who's been in the same situation!

Although you did choose to study abroad and "leave him", he said he was okay with it, and I don't think there was any selfishness on your part. Besides, if it helps your career, it's better for both of you, right? I can understand him not being completely happy with you leaving simply because he'd miss you, but if that's the case, why doesn't he want to spend more time talking to you? It just doesn't make sense to me. From what you've said it sounds like you're the one making all the effort. I have pretty low self-esteem, and tend to read too much into things, so that's how I'd be interpreting his actions.

Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, either, but my guess is (that sounds awful, but still) that he's trying to get back at me (by intentionally not doing what I want, i.e. talking daily) or at the very least thinks "she chose not to be here, so it's none of her business how I spend my time now". I guess it could also be some weird logic where it hurts him even more when he talks to me because that makes him realize I'm so far away? At least, I got that idea from him saying that sometimes, when he does stuff in the kitchen (where he can't see the computer), but we're still online and talking, he actually thinks I'm there with him and then when he goes back into the living room, it kinda hits him that I'm not actually there.
I've asked him if he talks to his family or friends about this, but he says he doesn't really. Still, from the reactions I get when I say my husband is back home (disbelief, shock, "how's that workin' out for ya?"), I guess he's getting the same from family/friends, which of course doesn't help. A lot of people find it pretty outrageous that I "left" him by himself and think that's not something you should do (at all or at least not when married.)

I have horrible time trying to explain things from time to time i just hope you know what i mean and what im trying to get at

It's okay, Caitlin. Your reaction actually shows how many people react to this and if those are the reactions he also gets, he must also feel like he has to justify me/the situation, like I feel I have to justify myself constantly. I sometimes don't even tell people that I'm married because I get these shocked reactions when I say my hb is not with me and they immediately think I'm a bad person because I "left" him - and that from people I hardly know!
I did realize, though, that I can't ever know how it is for him to be all by himself (for the first time in his life really, because he always lived with family until we got married) and I try to be understanding about any hard feelings he still has towards me without wanting to have them, but then there are times he makes me feel like he doesn't care about me at all and I feel I don't deserve that either because I would never intentionally hurt him.