Where I've been.

[Minerva]

You do make a good argument. I totally get your viewpoint. I just rely on natural ways of improvement. I believe Scientology is right in their manner that working negative emotions off through exercise or productivity can greatly help. Though I do know that's not the case for everyone. Its a controversial thing, prescription drugs. I do not approve their use, and I'd rather see them abolished all together but that's just my view, I won't protest against your previous use of them or anyone else's, its just when it affects children or causes teenagers to commit suicide is my issue. I think there are other ways to get around it, but ultimately it is up to an individual. Now when it comes down to a mother being told her little boy has "ADHD" and needs medication to stop his energy...that's where I get upset. There are other ways around the child's 'problem' without having them pop a pill.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a child with ADHD.

I dont want to play "I'm older" card, because age doesn't always bring wisdom... but I don't really have a choice to make my point. The thing with some belief systems, or judging parents for putting their kids on meds, or even saying things like you're not going to protest against the use of mental health drugs but you'd like to see them abolished... you sound very young. And despite you trying to have a very open mind, you really don't, not if you're wanting to decide what's best for others.

You don't agree with mental health meds? Then feel free to not take them. You have a right to your beliefs and to live them. As does every Scientologist. But when they try to tell ME what to do, I have an issue with that. When people imply I'm a neglectful mom because someday I may need to put my lovely child on meds so he can finally calm his mind down enough to study and not fall behind in school, a decision that will come after trying everything else and won't come easy (but is easier because I myself have ADHD and understand his struggle), it pisses me off.

Scientology has NO understanding about mental health issues and they use deceitful practices to push their agenda. They have websites that argue fiercely against ADHD that look like medical sites, and never identify the site as being Scientology's. They don't believe the condition exists, which is fine, some people still don't believe in ADHD despite every major health organization in the world agreeing it's a real condition. Again, that's anyone's right. Believe the sky is purple and we're all going to be carried away by falcons next Tuesday if that makes you happy. But don't push that belief on me. And if the argument against mental illness is so strong, don't try to sucker people with deceitful practices.

My brain is a mess. I have ADHD and Asperger's (ADHD is often comorbid with other issues), and I have PTSD from a past abusive relationship. No doctor had to tell me something was wrong with me; I've always known I was different, I've always wondered why I didn't seem to deal with things the same way other people did, why so many things were a struggle for me that others did with ease. I was well into adulthood when I finally looked into what was wrong with me and I'm comfortable with the answers I found. And I'd be the last person to say meds are perfect, because in my case, I tried two for my PTSD, and neither worked well and in fact were so awful I'm scared to try more. But I know others who would be dead without them. Meds are not perfect, and the the pharmacy lobby in the United States is shameful. That still doesn't change the fact that many people need these meds to live, and as someone who has lived a life of mental instability, I don't like being told by anyone "it's all in my head" or "go for a walk." Going for regular walks can cure mild depression. It's not going to cure my ADHD, Asperger's, or PTSD. But if you're down with all that Scientology has to say, you probably don't believe in those conditions either.

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but you've hit on the one issue of Scientology that grinds my gears.

[kteire]

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a child with ADHD.

I dont want to play "I'm older" card, because age doesn't always bring wisdom... but I don't really have a choice to make my point. The thing with some belief systems, or judging parents for putting their kids on meds, or even saying things like you're not going to protest against the use of mental health drugs but you'd like to see them abolished... you sound very young. And despite you trying to have a very open mind, you really don't, not if you're wanting to decide what's best for others.

You don't agree with mental health meds? Then feel free to not take them. You have a right to your beliefs and to live them. As does every Scientologist. But when they try to tell ME what to do, I have an issue with that. When people imply I'm a neglectful mom because someday I may need to put my lovely child on meds so he can finally calm his mind down enough to study and not fall behind in school, a decision that will come after trying everything else and won't come easy (but is easier because I myself have ADHD and understand his struggle), it pisses me off.

Scientology has NO understanding about mental health issues and they use deceitful practices to push their agenda. They have websites that argue fiercely against ADHD that look like medical sites, and never identify the site as being Scientology's. They don't believe the condition exists, which is fine, some people still don't believe in ADHD despite every major health organization in the world agreeing it's a real condition. Again, that's anyone's right. Believe the sky is purple and we're all going to be carried away by falcons next Tuesday if that makes you happy. But don't push that belief on me. And if the argument against mental illness is so strong, don't try to sucker people with deceitful practices.

My brain is a mess. I have ADHD and Asperger's (ADHD is often comorbid with other issues), and I have PTSD from a past abusive relationship. No doctor had to tell me something was wrong with me; I've always known I was different, I've always wondered why I didn't seem to deal with things the same way other people did, why so many things were a struggle for me that others did with ease. I was well into adulthood when I finally looked into what was wrong with me and I'm comfortable with the answers I found. And I'd be the last person to say meds are perfect, because in my case, I tried two for my PTSD, and neither worked well and in fact were so awful I'm scared to try more. But I know others who would be dead without them. Meds are not perfect, and the the pharmacy lobby in the United States is shameful. That still doesn't change the fact that many people need these meds to live, and as someone who has lived a life of mental instability, I don't like being told by anyone "it's all in my head" or "go for a walk." Going for regular walks can cure mild depression. It's not going to cure my ADHD, Asperger's, or PTSD. But if you're down with all that Scientology has to say, you probably don't believe in those conditions either.

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but you've hit on the one issue of Scientology that grinds my gears.

THIS!!
I also have ADHD, and I tried everything before going on meds, and almost flunked out of university because I was diagnosed in my 20s. And since my kids will most likely have ADHD as well (literally everyone in my family has it...) I would like to help them have a level playing field and be able to live up to their potential without the challenges I had.

I also am a bit offended by the way she said "ADHD" as though it's not a legitimate thing. Well, yep, it is. I have it, and I'm very happy I finally have a solution that works for me.

[garnet]

Its a controversial thing, prescription drugs. I do not approve their use, and I'd rather see them abolished all together but that's just my view

Are you just saying this about mental health drugs (which I take), or all drugs? You would like to see the prescription drugs that have saved the life of my newborn baby abolished? Really? I get that this is just your opinion and you aren't forcing it on anyone, but that pisses me off. I'm sure most members on this board are either on something for whatever condition, or their child(ren) are. That viewpoint is so unfathomably offensive. Even if you are only talking about ADHD meds, THAT is offensive to me, and I don't have it, or even know anyone that has it. It is one thing to say you don't like them for you. It is a whole new ballgame to say you would like to see them abolished. Who knows though, maybe one day you will see. Maybe you will have a child with ADHD and you will come to understand that sometimes you help the child as your bottom line. If that means they take a pill, they take a pill.

My father is bi-polar. You should see him off his meds. No exercise or vitamin in the world is going to help him. I have anxiety, and ptsd. I would not function without those little pills. And I do exercise and take vitamins.

You are so young to be getting caught up in this. This is going to sound offensive, I'm sorry, but it seems like they've already got your mind ready to mold to their way of thinking.

There are so many ways to do really amazing things with your life. It will be a real shame if you sign your life away for what sounds good to you now, as a very, very young adult.

Sometimes I wish LadyMarchHare was still around. I'm sure she would have something interesting to throw into this.

[Minerva]

Yeah. There are still people who don't believe ADHD is real. It's usually a lay-person's opinion; someone who doesn't believe in any mental illnesses; or medical doctors who think anyone who claims ADHD is scamming for Adderall. Well, tell that to WHO, AAP, AMA, CDC, the Mayo Clinic and on and so forth. All major medical organizations say it's a real condition. Of course this point is moot with Scientologists as they aren't going to be swayed by actual SCIENCE, but still...

Not to throw this discussion completely off the rails, but I do get some of the skepticism when it comes to giving kids with ADHD meds. As Edward M. Hallowell has said, in some school districts, ADHD is under-diagnosed, and in others, every child that twitches is pushed into an ADHD diagnosis. Classroom size is getting bigger, our expectations of children is stretching to the unattainable (sit still and do your work for 6 hours!), and students who sit still and pay attention are easier to deal with.

But that doesn't mean ADHD doesn't exist, and that doesn't mean parents are trying to zombie out their kids. I always get upset when I hear that, because most parents just want to do what's best for their kids; giving a child meds for a learning disorder isn't equivalent to child neglect. It's not magic -- giving your kids ADHD meds isn't going to turn them into Stepford children that allows parents to sip wine and ignore those bothersome rugrats. Parent who have their children on meds want to help their kids. And on top of everything else, it's a stigma. Most parents struggle with the decision. Not all, certainly, but most. I'm nearly always offended when people suggest it's an easy choice made by lazy parents. It's a glib thing to say, and no where near the truth.

If problems in the mind could show up on an xray or blood test, no one would doubt them. But they don't obviously. No one ever argues for diabetics to stop taking insulin and go for a walk. But it's ok to say that about mental illness. I don't get it. The brain is just another organ like the pancreas, so why is it so hard to understand some problems are rooted in the brain?

Gah. I could go on and on. But I'll stop here. Heh.

[garnet]

I've been a member here for a long time. This is the first time I am actually considering leaving. I don't think this is an appropriate place for this post to be, I requested it be moved (I understand it is up to Michelle & Frank) to another board. This really isn't especially (okay, there was some - but that got lost in the rest of the thread, as I assumed it would as soon as it was posted) about LDRs. It, imo, does not belong here. Is it ridiculous that I would leave over a thread? Probably. But sadly this board has changed, and with the allowance of threads like this to be here, it ruins the board for me.

I have nothing but respect for Michelle and Frank. I think they are awesome. I totally respect that this is their site, and if I no longer fit, so be it.

[Zephii]

I don't think you can say you don't fit because of one thread... beacuse one little girl somewhere else in the world has different beliefs to you. You could easily block her and just stop reading this thread.

Jenny - It's fine to believe whatever you want, but when you want everyone to believe it, that's when a problem starts. The world was never meant to have one religion*, because people are different and need different things mentally and spiritually.Things are not black and white either - there will always be one case that is an exception to the rule. It's easy to say "let's abolish all drugs" until someone you love is relying on them to survive. It's easy to say "Don't kill" until someone you love is myserably in pain and praying for death. Easy to protest abortion until you ask yourself "If I was raped, should I have to bring that child into the world?". Easy to say "stealing is wrong" until you run out of all other options to get food into your face.
You need to really think about your morals - especially if you're signing up for life.

You tell me these people do a lot of good to help society. I've never heard of a thing they have contributed, but I do live under a rock. However - I know I personally don't want to be helped by someone who's trying to change my world into a place where I have no freedom of choice. CHOICE is a beautiful thing. I want to make the decision if I take medications, or how my children are schooled, or if I even have children, or who I'm allowed to date!


* I recognise that you never directly said you want people to believe as you do, but if such a thing as abolishing drugs did happen, that would be a case where your belief was forced on others.

[lucybelle]

Sometimes I wish LadyMarchHare was still around. I'm sure she would have something interesting to throw into this.

AMEN TO THAT!!!

PS- Don't leave, garnet!!

[garnet]

I don't think you can say you don't fit because of one thread... beacuse one little girl somewhere else in the world has different beliefs to you. You could easily block her and just stop reading this thread.

Obviously it would be very silly to leave because I don't agree with the values of another board member. If that was how I operated, I'd have left long ago.

My first reply was to the OP. I thought about it. My second post on this thread wasn't due to HER (my thoughts to her were well summed up in post #1). It was more about the board itself. I'm starting to not feel comfortable here. The same is true on another of the boards I read (I bookmark my favorites, the ones that I can maybe contribute to, and avoid the rest) on the forum. There are no need for me to go into specifics, so I am only saying this much "out loud." If or when I leave it will be quietly, no hair flip or door slam.

[Zephii]

We'll be sad to see you go. But, if you outgrow the site, that's just how it is I guess. I can still stalk you and your beautiful boy on facebook at least!

[garnet]

We'll be sad to see you go. But, if you outgrow the site, that's just how it is I guess. I can still stalk you and your beautiful boy on facebook at least!

I apologize to keep this off topic in another post. I want to say though, it isn't outgrowing the site. I always want to be whatever help I can be to LDR couples, couples doing the visa thing, and you would be amazed at how many messages I get from girls that think they're pregnant. Anyway, it's just a matter of deeply hurtful, offensive, knife through my heart posts that I have a hard time dealing with. (More of that on another board certainly.) I've requested a couple of things be removed (or at least thread locked), things that were obviously very hateful, judgmental, and just cruel, and it didn't happen. Yet other things ARE censored. I don't question the site owners, they get to decide. I just have to figure out if I belong. It would be hard to leave here. I've been a member (old board) since my relationship with Chase started!

[heylittlekrissy]

What I don't understand about your whole take on "mind-altering" drugs, Jenny, is how you are so against them, yet you are very much for Scientology, and from all the information you personally posted and no background research on my part, it seems to me as though they practice "mind-altering" themselves, without the use of prescription drugs. But there are many uses for prescription drugs that many people who have cancer(which I think we can all agree is a REAL disease), and so many others that are recognized worldwide that help these people, whom might not live, or get to live as long without them. As for mind altering, my father personally has bi-polar disorder, and even if you don't agree it is a true disease, I'll tell you it is from living with it the last 20 years of my life. Have you ever loved a person who can be such a sweetheart one moment, and the next you know they are breaking everything in sight, screaming, in an uncontrollable rage, and you're left scared and confused, because there was no obvious cause of this? Not to mention all the times he can be fine one moment, then trying to commit suicide the next, without any drastic changes in their life? That's not right. They obviously aren't right in the head. This can only be helped so much with changing your way of thinking and exercise, but not enough that it might save his life. I may be biased by the fact my own father has been living with this disorder for years, but the drugs he's taken have helped him so much they've probably saved his life, and therefore I am completely for them. Some of these drugs are a necessity, some aren't. Whether you believe it or not, I don't ask you to accept that everyone needs drugs, and therefore I ask that you not ask for these drugs to be abolished. I don't mean to sound so rude or hostile, but you seem to need to learn to open your mind more, as you seem rather closed-minded by your posts here.
Not to mention the couple of times you mentioned not agreeing with all of their views/beliefs, even when you've also stated you believer EVERYTHING they believe, it seems you still have your doubts, yet you say that you're very ready to commit. You talk about how much of a commitment this is to join, and yet don't seem to be 100% sure yourself that you're ready for it. So from reading your posts, I say don't do it, because you're obviously unsure still.

Edit: (I should have stated this better) But on a side note, I agree with Garnet in that I believe this doesn't really belong in this thread, as that besides the fact your boyfriend is a part of this, this whole thread has almost nothing to do with long distance relationships; it is not my forum though, and I do understand that the posts here are under the discretion of Michelle and Frank, so it really is up to them on this.