How much do you assimilate?

[lucybelle]

For those who live abroad or for those whose SO's live them, how much of the culture do you take on and how much of your old culture do you retain?

In Costa Rica kissing on the cheek when meeting someone, saying hello to someone, and saying goodbye to someone is the norm. You do it with friends, family, coworkers, associates, etc. I sort of hate personal contact with people I'm not super close with. I always try my best to avoid the kiss, but I feel like I'm being rude. I don't mind with my SO's family (even though his dad always gives me a cheek kiss even when he's sweaty and disgusting!) I don't know if it's okay for me to avoid the kisses and just be like "well I don't like it and I'm not from here so deal with it". If someone leans in for the greeting kiss I always return it, but I always try to stand away and make it seem like I don't want one. (my students always want hugs as well and I'm just not touchy feely like that)

Anyways, do any of you have any issues like this? Where who you are clashes with the societal norms in your new country? How do you handle it? How do you find a happy medium?

[milaya]

This is going to be too long, since this is exactly the problems I've been going through the past 3 years - and especially these past few weeks.

It's hard to find a medium in Japan, since they expect close to 100 percent assimilation if you're here. Which has lead to some discussions and feelings of not being accepted.
My SO of course accepts my cultural differences and most of his family seemed fine with things in the beginning, but as time passes, their pressure is getting heavier and heavier. To avoid any bad feelings when I'm here I've pretty much worked my butt off to assimilate into the perfect Japanese wife. During the days of my Mother-in-Law's funeral was like the big test to see if I could fit in.
I hardly sat down for hours, because even though there wasn't room for me in the kitchen to help out (there was already 5 other female family members in that small space) it would look bad if I sat down (since that's only what the guys are allowed to do), so I kept going back an forth to assist any dinner/food preparation I could. I was the last to sit down at the table to make sure everyone had chopsticks, tableware and stuff (20+ people). I was the first to get up if anybody needed anything - especially the men (since god forbid they should ever leave the table during the entire evening). I was the one who took all the dishes (which my SO helped me with - and the funny thing is that he got a lot of compliments from the other women that he helped out so much in the house and that I was such a lucky woman. Looking at the other men in the family, I guess they were right, but it's annoying that he gets compliments for doing stuff all the women "have" to do).

As soon as guests came by I was the first was to prepare and serve the green tea and bow.
During that time there was actually things I started to dislike about myself, that I had to serve the men of the family like this. That even though I was talking with other people at the table, I had to get up right away if one of them men needed something. Instead of getting their lazy ass off the floor themselves. The other women kept being very impressed with the fact that my SO was ready to get me anything I needed and not the other way around. The good thing is that I got a lot of compliments during those days for being such a great, young wife of the family. It felt like when I was just being my polite, Danish, self I didn't get accepted very well, so basically I had to follow their rules.

This also results in a lot of fights with my SO, since his sister, father and such complains to him about my lack of politeness and that I'm lazy and then my SO tries to explain to me "how the Japanese culture works". Not once has he tried to tell his family members that they have to keep in mind that my culture is very different and even though I'm trying hard, they can't expect me to do everything right according to their standards on the first try. His sister got annoyed with me, because I didn't cook - but in Japan they use gas stoves, which I've never used before, so unless somebody shows me how to use them, it's not that easy for me to just cook something up.
At a time I felt like I took one step forward and two steps back. And during the funeral when people asked me if I liked Japan, I actually started to hesitate with my answer. The Japanese even have a sense of pride about their culture being complicated and it has taken them years of scolding and such to fully understand it - them why don't they give me, a foreigner, time to breathe?!

When somebody, like a friend of my Father-in-Law comes to the house. Not only does I have to hurry and serve them tea, but all other people in house has sit quietly on the floor, near the table and wait to be introduced and even after we've been introduced and gone through all the bowing and polite phrases, we still have to sit there and wait. If somebody comes to the house, it's rude to go to another room - even though those guests have no interest in talking with us.

As you can hear, I've been under a lot of pressure past few weeks (and of course the past 3 years) - which sometimes turns into a long rant like this.

I think some of the things I'll keep from my own culture is the way to raise children. Japanese children up till the age of around 7 years old are flat out annoying, spoiled brats. (No one-child policies in Japan - for those who are wondering)
They get no discipline and act like they own the world. Then when they enter school the discipline starts and they have to adapt to the strict society. Why not from the start?! My SO told me that Japanese parents feel like that the adult world is so hard that the kids should at least enjoy their childhood. But isn't it harder to first believe that you own everything and then suddenly you're beaten into submission? Japanese children don't say "please" or "no thank you". The can yell from the table to an adult "milk!" and then get it. The way the speak to their parents or family members make me want to slap them. If somebody ask them "Do you want ___?" they often answer in a very rude way like "erm, no way!" "ew, no", "do you really think I want that?" and act like you're the fool for asking.

The see all people as their waiters. If their parents are busy with something, the kids just keep yelling till the parent comes running. They even often hit and kick family members, if they feel like they get ignored and they don't get told off for it. And they don't clean up after themselves and don't do what they're told.

I was brought up to say "Yes, please" "No, thank you" - even when it was my parents asking me if I want something. I was told to always say "please" if I wanted something and don't interrupt when adults are speaking or busy. Do not hit or kick people. Do not use loud voices inside houses. If you scream or act up to get attention, you will be ignored. Always say "thank you" and always clean up your own mess.
And to be honest, I learned these things in such an early age that I never saw it as "ruining" my childhood.

At least my SO is fully into the idea of a European way of upbringing for our possible future kids. I guess in the future, my house is they only place where we can live more with a medium.

[ChibiFelicia]

Milaya - i feel for ya. Im chinese and although i have never experienced life in japan, the chinese culture is very similar. In fact, most oriental cultures have those same expectations. Honestly, i used to be like that but since i live in a country away from my family but when i go back to the homeland, yea they expect me to be the good chinese girl. Which im not lol. I think Hong Kong is alot more relaxed now though - still doesnt sit well with me. I find it funny when i go back home and i see my dad sit on his ass while my mum waits on him. There was once when mum and I were going shopping and my mum was like "oh i need to get home to cook for your dad and your grandparents" I was like.......noway. I called dad and i was like make your own damn dinner, we're busy. When we eventually got home, dad and I had a talk and i told him it isnt on. I understand what our culture is like but give her some slack! I haven't been home in years!

Now that im older i understand why my parents were so opposed to me dating English people because they would find it tough to accept our culture. My husband is korean and I told him from the get go that no way will i wait on him. Or his family. I do what i have been brought up to be like minus a few things xD The benefits of being brought up alongside a Western culture. Im glad that my hubby agrees and his family accept that im not the traditional korean or chinese woman.

I hope things become easier for you overtime milaya.

[Bex2804]

For those who live abroad or for those whose SO's live them, how much of the culture do you take on and how much of your old culture do you retain?

In Costa Rica kissing on the cheek when meeting someone, saying hello to someone, and saying goodbye to someone is the norm. You do it with friends, family, coworkers, associates, etc. I sort of hate personal contact with people I'm not super close with. I always try my best to avoid the kiss, but I feel like I'm being rude. I don't mind with my SO's family (even though his dad always gives me a cheek kiss even when he's sweaty and disgusting!) I don't know if it's okay for me to avoid the kisses and just be like "well I don't like it and I'm not from here so deal with it". If someone leans in for the greeting kiss I always return it, but I always try to stand away and make it seem like I don't want one. (my students always want hugs as well and I'm just not touchy feely like that)

Anyways, do any of you have any issues like this? Where who you are clashes with the societal norms in your new country? How do you handle it? How do you find a happy medium?

Haha!! I had the problem with the kisses on the cheek too In Spain they kiss once on each cheek, to say hello and goodbye. The first time I went over there my SO had told people not to kiss me as I found it really weird ( here in England we normally hug or shake hands) I had to kiss a few people but the ones that knew didn't kiss me but the last time I was there I made an effort to kiss people and it wasn't that bad! (and it also made my SO super happy that I was trying to accept his ways!) I think we both have to try accept the way both of us do things, He gets happy when I try things the way he does them and that makes me happy, and whats the harm in trying something new?

[rina]

In Belgium people kissed on the cheeks 3 times which i found weird. Normally at home we kiss 2 times but mostly girls with their friends or family members, and i'm not one of those people. It didn't bother me the least to be honest, and everyone was so nice, i just love his family about 15 of them lol. To be fair i only stayed for a month and it was the first time meeting all of them.

What i did find weird was their dish washing habits. I don't mean to step on any toes, but not rinsing the dishes after u soaked them in hot water with dish washing liquid feels unsafe. They wipe them dry after they let the foam drip off but still.. The good news is they all had double sinks lol, so i could fill the 2nd one with warm water and rinse the foam off, and they found me doing this funny, but my SO's mom didn't seem to have a problem with my way of doing it.

[Tooki]

(I'm used to the cheek kissing deal because I go through those formalities every time that I go to my Portuguese buddies place or I see their latina chicas.)

I will never fully assimilate into Estonian society because I look foreign . With that said, people recognise that I'm foreign and they don't expect me to become 100% Estonian (Even learning 20% of their language is a big achievement in their eyes). While I'm in Estonia I let the other person lead the introduction because they are very reserved. Luckily my GF's sibilings are married to/date people of a different cultural background so there is no pressure on her part to force me into becoming 'Estonian'.

One thing that I do retain is my manners. Estonians aren't rude but they don't use please/thank you if they want something, even from a family member.

[Dziubka]

I try to keep to "When in Rome Poland, ..." but within reasonable limits.

Here they kiss on the cheeks three times, while I don't think I've ever hugged my grandpa (let alone kiss !). I kissed his parents most of the time when I lived with them and they came home from work and I kiss family members and friends when we meet them. I'm not super comfortable with it, but it also doesn't bother me a lot.

A lot of the cultural rituals are related to catholicsm, though and that's where it becomes tricky. I'm not anti religious, I consider myself a Protestant by culture. But I'm not and won't ever be a Catholic and I'm not comfortable 'pretending' even for the sake of tradition.
For Easter they take a small basket of food (not just any food, there are exact rules to what needs to be in it) to church and have it blessed. I've spent the past two Easters with my boyfriend's family and I went with them to have that basket blessed and I go to mass with him sometimes (mostly on visits, because I want to spend time with him), but I always feel a bit silly.
I think sometimes not looking (and at first not sounding) like a foreigner actually makes it more difficult. If you're very obviously a foreigner, people don't expect you to fit in, whereas with me I'm always worried they'll think I'm just weird/awkward.

[Karura]

I have yet to meet my SO's culture first-hand (which I will in less than two months) but I've been speaking with my SO about it so that I can be prepared for things that I'm not used to.

Being half-Chinese, half-Portuguese and living in Macau and now in Portugal for studies, I have learned to adapt to different cultures. I know how to act to different situation depending if I'm in China or Portugal (thankfully I visited Portugal a lot in the past so I got used to the kisses on the cheek, even though I don't really like it). Since I've lived almost my entire life in Macau, I still have lots of the Chinese culture on me and I find myself using it from time-to-time here in Portugal (such as bowing my head a little to thank someone, covering my mouth when I laugh sometimes, straight posture, etc.) I really like how the Portuguese are very welcoming and warming people (even to strangers), something that I think lacks in the Chinese culture.

I've been to Spain and I suspect Chile may have a similar culture, but I'm still looking forward to see how things work there and what is the position of a female Chilean. After my experience I'll talk about it some more. =)

[lucybelle]

Oh it's so nice to see I'm not the only one with these issues! With the kissing thing I really don't mind with family and friends, I just don't like it with strangers. Like my student's parents! I don't know them and I don't want to be that close to them. I may be partly a germ-a-phobe, but that much contact with so many people is just a cold waiting to happen. I even see my school director give kisses to the kids, now that's something I would never ever do!

[Dziubka]

Lucybelle, at least over here it's fine to not kiss if when you're sick. People go "Im sorry, I won't greet you, because I'm ill/have a cough/whatever" and that's acceptable. You could try that?

[Moon]

I'm not the friendliest or chattiest person in the world, but whenever I'm in Helsinki for a couple of weeks, I really miss strangers smiling at each other, petting people's dogs, or chatting about the weather while waiting in line. I know they look down on Americans for those things, but honestly, those stupid American-isms can just make your day a little brighter. I'm not saying Finns are unfriendly, they can be some of the nicest people anywhere, but they make keeping to yourself an art form When there, I need to remember not to smile at people I don't know, or fawn over the pups out for their walks, so I don't get that "Oh god, a crazy, obnoxious American" eyeroll. It's harder to do than I would have ever thought!

milaya, I can't imagine how hard it must be for a Scandinavian woman to adapt to such a male dominated culture. Sounds like you're managing better than most people would.

[mllebamako]

There are lots of things that I love about Malian culture and I am 100% into those- I love the extensive greetings, their sense of humor, the way they tease one another, how blunt people can be, the culture of sharing, and so on. But there are certain things that I just cannot fully assimilate to and I figure that that's okay- it's pretty obvious I'm not Malian!

I don't like how men and women stay pretty separate at parties (weddings, baptisms, etc). The men sit outside, make tea, and talk. The women sit in the courtyard and have to listen to these (imo) annoying singers who talk you up for money. I know that if I was a Malian woman, I'd be expected to sit there and listen. But instead, I usually make an appearance with the women for 30 minutes and then go sit outside with the men (mostly b/c my SO is there and he'll include me in conversations).

I was told by someone that being a foreign woman in Mali is like belonging to a 3rd gender. You are not required to do all the things that Malian women do or act in a certain way. But you do not quite have all the privileges/respect of a man. So I just accept my 3rd gendered status and try to find a way to respect their culture without losing myself.

[MattDavies86]

I'm kinda lucky reading this, there are cultural difference of course between me in the UK and her in Thailand, but nothing bad, can't show the soles of my feet, can't touch a thai main on the head (why would I?) have to put both my hands together when saying hello or goodbye thats it, her family aren't expecting me to be very Thai shall we say, they know I'm not and accept that really, which is good :P

[Karura]

Lucybelle, at least over here it's fine to not kiss if when you're sick. People go "Im sorry, I won't greet you, because I'm ill/have a cough/whatever" and that's acceptable. You could try that?

That's actually not a bad idea, just as long as you don't do it often. =P
Since cold is a common thing in the winter maybe the OP can use it then?

[13000km]

I like Singapore has adapted a lot of the American culture. We are still very much influenced by our Chinese backgrounds, but because we are a young country and "get" to develop our own culture, we for some reason have adapted many American ways (actually, I think it's because of how much American TV we watch). So, it hasn't been too hard for me here. I have had to water down my very strong Singaporean accent, so that people here can actually understand what I say.

One thing I still feel a little bit weirded out by is strangers saying "hi" and "what's up" or "how are you doing?". It's so uncomfortable to me and I'm not really sure why. I often find myself walking home or on campus and hoooping no one talks to me. On the other hand, when I went back to Singapore I suffered some reverse culture shock and thought it uncomfortable when nobody smiled when they caught my eye. Maybe it is me that is weird.