Right of EU Mobility for EU Citizens and their Families

[Hollandia]

Anyone else looked into this?

https://europa.eu/legislation_summar.../l33152_en.htm

We found out about this, this morning after I found a blog and website discussing how NL has these financial requirements to bring a spouse here but not for any other EU member to bring theirs here if they move to NL. It turns out the reverse is true because of this EU law. Now we have researched and it seems that you are still required to have a job but no specific amount can be required for it nor the 12 month contract, which in this market is damn hard to get, and so his job hunt has now expanded to several other EU countries. Yes, not all EU countries will honor a registered partner but marriage was in our plans already so that is not an issue. It would be so much cooler if NL would just accept the same rules for their own natives but since they won't it might be best to pack up the kitties and jump down the road.

I don't know if anyone else has every ran into similar roadblocks and perhaps this might be good information to have. I don't mind where we live so fingers crossed.

[Dziubka]

I guess I don't really understand what requirements you're talking about or what exactly your plan is now?
If you want to move to another EU state, you probably need to look up what requirements that state has to bring over family members from a non-EU country.

[OperaDiva]

Hm, it says here that the income requirement is a little over 1600 euros (which is not high at all) ... https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/family...e-requirements

And yes, it could be easier to go to another country, but it doesn't say anything about getting a Schengen visa first, so I would ask about that.

[Hollandia]

Hm, it says here that the income requirement is a little over 1600 euros (which is not high at all) ... https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/family...e-requirements

And yes, it could be easier to go to another country, but it doesn't say anything about getting a Schengen visa first, so I would ask about that.

I am an American so I already have a Schengen Visa via my passport for 90 days in and 90 days out. 1600 euros a month is only part of the requirement. You have to have a 12 month contract also, this is the hard part. He's been looking for a few years already and a 12 month contract for 1600 euros a month is not easy to do in NL right now. His last job would only provide him with 6 month contracts. We are both pretty well versed on the IND requirements. He has already corresponded with them before and is scheduling another meeting soon. This EU law is one that applies to all of EU except for your native country which does not fall into the mobility law. If you look at the link it states that as a EU citizen my SO and his family, including spouse, may live and work in any country in the EU and that while required to provide proof of employment there is no amount required. That makes it much easier to move to another country in EU since he would be able to find a job making something for no specified amount of time. He sent out his first job application to one of them today.

[Hollandia]

I guess I don't really understand what requirements you're talking about or what exactly your plan is now?
If you want to move to another EU state, you probably need to look up what requirements that state has to bring over family members from a non-EU country.

Did you read the link?

This is a law from the EU that overrides the individual member state except your native state.

[Hollandia]

Perhaps I should clarify. I am looking for information from posters that have knowledge of this EU law and especially any with experience from it. This is not about what is required per country or in NL, this is the EU law of mobility afforded to all EU citizens and their family, which include their spouse. Our plans are to have him broaden his job search to several other EU countries as well as NL Wherever the jobs come from we will go or NL if that job meets the contract time and amount needed by IND after we marry, which we already had planned. Here is summary of the law from the link provided.

ACT

European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC.

SUMMARY

The Directive merges into a single instrument all the legislation on the right of entry and residence for Union citizens, consisting of two regulations and nine directives. This simplification aims to make it easier not only for the general public but also for public authorities to exercise their rights. The Directive also sets out to reduce to the bare minimum the formalities which Union citizens and their families must complete in order to exercise their right of residence.

[Dziubka]

I did read the link, in two languages no less (thank you, European Union!)

But the EU citizen would still have to proof that he has "sufficient resources", which is afaik up to each state to define.
Afaik in Poland the amount is not very high, in fact in my case (but I moved there without additional non-EU family members, that I had to support) it was enough to show a valid credit card (and mine has a limit of 800€/month )

So that's why I said it depends on the requirements that the country you want to move to has. Correct me, if I got something wrong.

Incidentally, seeing as my SO and I have lived in each other's countries before, I have at least some experience with the EU mobility laws...

[Hollandia]

I did read the link, in two languages no less (thank you, European Union!)

But the EU citizen would still have to proof that he has "sufficient resources", which is afaik up to each state to define.
Afaik in Poland the amount is not very high, in fact in my case (but I moved there without additional non-EU family members, that I had to support) it was enough to show a valid credit card (and mine has a limit of 800€/month )

So that's why I said it depends on the requirements that the country you want to move to has. Correct me, if I got something wrong.

It states that they have to be involved in economic activity , employed or self employed, or has the sufficient income. Me and him both looked over it. This is also why he is contacting the IND again.

either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);

or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;

or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;

or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories.


As shown above it says that the member states may not specify a minimum amount what they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances... unlike the individual countries. This is also much more fair because in today's economy even the lowest paying jobs are hard to come by in some countries and so it makes perfect sense that should be taken into account when discussing human rights laws of the EU.

[Dziubka]

The way I read it (and I feel like in the German version it's more obvious, but that might be just German being my native language) is that
he needs to be invovled in economic activity or have sufficient resources "to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay." Meaning that either the economic activity or the sufficient resources have to ensure that you won't "become a burden on the social services of the host Member State".

So either way, it would have to be enough to support himself and any family members that he wants to bring over.

And just because there can't officially be a set minimum amount, it doesn't mean that there's none in practise. If the EU citizen doesn't make or barely makes enough to support himself, in my understanding, he doesn't meet the criteria to not become a burden to social services (if he has to support another person as well).

So yes, it will most likely be easier than getting the visa directly in NL, but I doubt that it's as easy as finding a crappily paid part time job in another EU country.

[Hollandia]

The way I read it (and I feel like in the German version it's more obvious, but that might be just German being my native language) is that
he needs to be invovled in economic activity or have sufficient resources "to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay." Meaning that either the economic activity or the sufficient resources have to ensure that you won't "become a burden on the social services of the host Member State".

So either way, it would have to be enough to support himself and any family members that he wants to bring over.

This is an assumption. I am speaking about a law. Laws are specific and just as IND states so, EU would too. I think you responded before I edited my last post which addresses this with this excerpt. It is in English on the site too, this is not a translation.

The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;


I apologize but again, I am looking for posters that have actual knowledge of this law by having contacted the EU or their individual country about this EU law already or has actually utilized it. We already plan on speaking with the IND about this and also any other countries that he is applying to.

[Dziubka]

I did move to another EU member state twice and went through the "immigration process" (if that's what you want to call it) twice and so did my SO, so we have utlised at least the first part of the law a few times. Seeing as my SO is actually on social assistance in my country right now, I think I'm not lying when I say that we know one thing or other about EU mobility laws.

The law states pretty clearly what requirements you have to meet (have enough money so that you don't need social assistance in the host country). That is not an assumption, that's what's written in the law.
There can't be an official minimum amount and they must take into account the personal circumstances, but that doesn't mean you can randomly not meet any of their criteria. They can for example take into account how much rent you pay and if your income is enough to feed yourself (and your non-EU family member) after rent.

[Hollandia]

I did move to another EU member state twice and went through the "immigration process" (if that's what you want to call it) twice and so did my SO, so we have utlised at least the first part of the law a few times. Seeing as my SO is actually on social assistance in my country right now, I think I'm not lying when I say that we know one thing or other about EU mobility laws.

The law states pretty clearly what requirements you have to meet (have enough money so that you don't need social assistance in the host country). That is not an assumption, that's what's written in the law.
There can't be an official minimum amount and they must take into account the personal circumstances, but that doesn't mean you can randomly not meet any of their criteria. They can for example take into account how much rent you pay and if your income is enough to feed yourself (and your non-EU family member) after rent.

He is going to get a job first but this law states that it does not have to meet a specific amount for a specific contract time like IND. If they take "our personal circumstances" into it, unlike IND, they will look at my continued income from a business I own half of in USA and continue to work remotely at. If the IND would look at it here, we would already meet it. Also had IND taken had this same law here he would have met it because his income for his last job was right under the IND amount and the rent and other bills have been getting paid with said job for a few years with the 6 month contracts his employer would only give him. We could very easily show a third party sponsor as well.

In NL they won't take any of that into account, if the EU mobility law does then it is most definitely worth it for us to follow up on. The two of us together pay the bills and pay to make the trips to see each other and have done so for quite some time, if any country takes some of this into account we should be able to close the distance. Any job that he can find in NL with a contract for 12 months over the IND amount will too, quite frankly I prefer to be in NL but if this EU law makes our time apart more attainable then we are willing to move there. It does not make it a piece of cake but it could make it possible.

[CynicalQuixotic]

What I don't understand is why you think you're going to find people well-versed in the complexities of international immigration law here. This is a board full of teenagers with a small but vocal adult minority.

[Hollandia]

What I don't understand is why you think you're going to find people well-versed in the complexities of international immigration law here. This is a board full of teenagers with a small but vocal adult minority.

That is not really true. I am far from that type of an individual and I think several others are not either. I also would ask this community in hopes that someone else was in an LDR and utilized this exact law previously. This should be a perfect place to ask this question. If not, C'est la vie, if was worth the time to ask.

[rosie1563]

Look up this directive: EU FREE MOVEMENT DIRECTIVE/2004/38/C. This will get you all the information you need. If you need further assistance, pm me and I can add you to a fb page that will give you some guidance