Kido (8) lying to me. - and other isues with punishment

[aniay]

How the H should I punish a kid that doesn't care about anything.

She lied to me on tuesday (about not eating her lunch)
and even though i told her not to she lied to me about the same thing today.

I can't really forbid her to use computer because she barely uses it lately.
I did banned her from lego. (but she summed it up with I wouldn't have time to play it anyway)
She is generally becoming more arrogant and smart-ass every day and have a come-back for whatever I say.

She is fighting me every step of the way. And I really don't want to use force. It's wrong in my head.

She doesn't care about her toys (but lego) Doesn't care about money, or anything really. I am just so out of ideas.

She is staying at her room, crying about not wanting to write lines (she was supposed to write two lines but got another line every time she said she will not do it) she now has two pages to write.

[Hollandia]

I always found it was best to find something they really want, like a play date or girls day out with mom, and then make sure she knows she will lose this if she does not earn it. Something like passive aggressive non violent punishment. Mine also claimed to love playing with lint in a corner in time-out, that was a lie, so I let her do it till longer till she admitted she wanted out and was sorry.

[Ahava]

Welcome to parenthood.
I have a vague memory of this sort of behaviour. Now she is a stroppy preteen.

If punishment doesn't work? (Have you tried the "naughty step" where she has to sit for 8 mins quiet and just think. It can also be a chair.)
What about giving her attention and doing something fun just you and her?
Ofcourse you have to make sure she knows that what she has been doing is wrong and that she doesn't think it's a reward for bad behaviour.
It's just a thought, but maybe she is acting this way coz she want's her moms attention?

[snow]

I don't have kids, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but be careful when it comes to eating. I know that a lot of things can make you feel stressed out at that age, especially seeing how you are dating long distance, and it could cause her to stop eating all together. If that is the case, punishing her is not going to help. I know from experience that I'd much rather have my parents talk to me and find out WHY I didn't eat and WHY I lied about not eating, than punishing me for not eating.

Like I said, take this with a grain of salt, but it reminds me of my past when I stopped eating because my parents kept fighting and leaving the apartment for a day, but we never knew if they'd come back.

[sweetshay]

Have you tried to talk to whomever monitors her lunch period about getting her to eat? Do you think there may be something going on in school that is influencing her behavior?

My aunt did this thing with my niece where she made her hold her arms up like a T and said "Now you can feel my hurt when you do certain things." Not saying I agree but it apparently worked for that day. She's also ex military.

I agree with Hollandia I think if there is incentive to get something she would actually enjoy rather than constant punishment maybe she'll change up a bit. Like if she's good for a day she'll get a trip to the water park or something. You could even go as far as to make a "good behavior chart" with stars leading to a goal. My sister in law does this and i've also seen this done at an internship I did.

Also, how's her sugar intake? My niece usually acts up when she's tired and had something sweet (like most people I suppose). I heard a different aunt claim she had to re-vamp their diets to organic foods cause certain things had my cousins out of control.

[differentcountries]

I don't have kids. I have however 3 younger siblings that I always had lots of responsabilities for and I have babysat tons of my friends children, including kids who were kicking me in the stomack, so I am not saying any of this because I "love kids and think they are cute". I generally connect well with defiant children because when I was young I was a sensitive child in search for meaning myself. Those times where a grown up really saw me I will always remember, and there is a special something that happens when I feel connected with a child (and end its kicking, for instance).

I am a big believer in non-violent communication in general and I am starting to think it has something vital to say about child rearing as well. While the parents are in charge, still the issue in a family is always to connect and empethize with people. People sometimes lie, but why do they do that? Like snow said, why is she not eating?

Children can get reactive depressions too and it sounds like she is dipping her toes into one. The combination of eating less,withdrawing, agression and sadness is exatly what would make me take my husband to the doctor if he acted like that. I am a little puzzled that you approach her behaviour as a dicipline problem (although I am sure she can be annoying).

Your daughter cares about her connection with you, which I think is in danger now that you are moving and marrying. I suppose you are bringing her when you move? So that she will go to a new school, live in a new house, learn a new language in less than two months? Everything she does is possably reactive to the fact that her whole life is going to be uprooted. When I was nine, I moved across the country to a place I have always been on holidays and half my relatives were already living, still the whole thing was pretty traumatic to me. They say the age between eight and eleven are very sensitive to life changes because the younger ones live in the moment and the older ones have more a sense of self, wheras 8-11 are aware but still need their parents to feel centered. I think you shall have all these things in mind when you care about her lunch lies or whatever defiant act she did. Will punishing her make you grow closer, or even change her behaviour? Her acting like things doesn't matter to her means she is withdrawing from the life she knew. She is greifing the loss that is soon going to come. I know I was the months before we were moving, I felt like nothing mattered anymore since the life I knew was ending, I certainly was not polite to adults and on the moving day I actually threatened to not go. Be very aware of your child because no matter how much you think she doesn't care about what you do, she does care very much - you are the most important person in her world.

[aniay]

I don't have kids, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but be careful when it comes to eating. I know that a lot of things can make you feel stressed out at that age, especially seeing how you are dating long distance, and it could cause her to stop eating all together. If that is the case, punishing her is not going to help. I know from experience that I'd much rather have my parents talk to me and find out WHY I didn't eat and WHY I lied about not eating, than punishing me for not eating.

Like I said, take this with a grain of salt, but it reminds me of my past when I stopped eating because my parents kept fighting and leaving the apartment for a day, but we never knew if they'd come back.

and @differentcountrie She has eating problem since she was born and that's why I react with punishment. She can eat loads of food she likes (which is not a lot to chose from) and fights every bite of things she doesn't like. She is also very thin (19,5kg for 128cm) but otherwise she is health kid (under paediatrician control)
With her eating it's all about being fussy, if she has things she likes she eats every two hours) this does not include sweets.

What I try to teach her is to eat what she is given. If she can't eat it whole ok, but she should eat at least a little bit.

(I will talk to her about why she lied later and see if we can do something about it)

@sweetshy - When she is given anything chocolate she gets the "nuttela-nutty" aka jumps, runs, laughs, yells and generally getting the energy out. And saddly teachers overseeing her lunch said they won't be feeding her at age 8 like they were at age 6

@Hollandia - need to start rmembering about timeouts, I use them mostly when she gets crazy and she is allowed off it when she calms down.

@different countries again: she is staying till summer in poland because I can't take her unless I have a steady job in UK (that her dad's condition to let her go with me) I am also starting to consider the signs of depression in her, but I spoke with her teacher today and told her about Olivia's behaviour (she knows the situation) and the teacher was VERY surprised Olivia behaves like that. She is an example in her class.

So lots of things to think about. Thank you.

[Hollandia]

Mine is older now, but she is bi-polar and ADHD with severe anger management problems and huge defiance issues. Docs said, she still must have repercussions for her actions. You must be the one in charge, even when going crazy, try to remember it is a power struggle. I was bulimic for a very long time and as I got older I learned to lie better but still considered punishment for lying a reasonable reaction and a good deterrent. One illness or disorder is not an excuse for bad behavior or you are setting a dangerous precedent.

[TaraMarie]

First off....I think she's normal. I have three children. The two girls were EXACTLY like that. They woke up on their eighth birthdays completely different kids (my son started at 11). I wanted to kill them! Where did my sweet babies go?

Mt pediatrician told me not to worry, they will eat when they are hungry. Guess what? Youngest daughter is almost 15 and won't eat a vegetable, but she's happy and healthy. She's outgrown the acting up after many, many punishments . Sometimes I still threaten to take everything out of her room....including the DOOR, but for the most part it's smooth sailing. Oldest daughter is 25 and amazing. My son is 12.....and still tries me, but I am chalking it up to hormones. This too shall pass.

One piece of advice. My youngest daughter, Kendall, has been difficult and stubborn since the day she was born. And apparently she heard us say that so often that she had to live up to it. Don't say it in front of her! She thought we didn't like her, so she was acting up for attention! We put her in therapy last Nov...she's a changed kid! When she realized I refused to argue with her, or even speak to her, she started behaving! Life has been very peaceful!

[R&R]

Mt pediatrician told me not to worry, they will eat when they are hungry. Guess what? Youngest daughter is almost 15 and won't eat a vegetable, but she's happy and healthy. She's outgrown the acting up after many, many punishments . Sometimes I still threaten to take everything out of her room....including the DOOR, but for the most part it's smooth sailing. Oldest daughter is 25 and amazing. My son is 12.....and still tries me, but I am chalking it up to hormones. This too shall pass.

I completely agree with this. My youngest started with the eating issue when she was almost 3. Nothing but pop tarts, and only two kinds, for a month. I contacted her doctor who very calmly explained to me that she would not eat just pop tarts forever. As long as she was eating, that was what mattered and she would grow out of it. She did. She is almost 19 and still eats things in cycles. She'll go awhile wanting nothing but grilled cheese, or pizza, or salad. She's very healthy and is trim. I'd say as long as she's eating, she should be okay.

We also always had a "candy drawer" in our house. The kids could grab from it any time. When candy wasn't a special treat, they would pass the candy drawer 9 times out of 10 when looking for a snack because it wasn't special. IMHO, the kids at the birthday parties, etc, who go crazy when they get the sugar are usually the kids who are restricted on sugar intake. It's more the excitement of the atmosphere and being able to have it over the sugar really getting them going.

She may be really stressing out about your moving and she doesn't know how to react. Her whole life is going to change and she doesn't have a say. Where she is acting out at home but is exemplary at school, it could be the root of some of the issues.

[aniay]

The funny thing about my kido is that she likes veggies a lot.

@TaraMarie
I have experience with taking a role of a lazy, ignorant kid (as I was put in that place by my parents)
So what I try to exercise is telling Olivia what she did on this particular ocassion rather than telling her that she is some way . (Like You spilled the milk instead of you are clumsy) Though her dad bombs any progress I make whenever she gets there. (because he doesn't believe it's important how you say things)

@R&R I do agree with you on the sugar intake thing, Oliwia has access to sweets but like with every other food she has her favourites. But, probably because she's so small, she always gets nutty after eating chocolate (I can always say she has been eating it by the way she behaves)

I talked to her yesterday, she couldn't explain why she acted like she did. Today she is prommised favourite sweet if she eats whole lunch at school.

Funny thing is that few months ago, when she thought that she will need to decide if she wants to go with me or stay with dad she was constantly crying, sulking, hiding and being sad little puppy. After a talk that she doesn't have to decide and us parnts will do it the best way we can so that she can spend time with both f us she came back to being happy, energetic self. Apparently knowing that adults are deciding helps kids and makes it easier for them to accept the change.

[TaraMarie]

The funny thing about my kido is that she likes veggies a lot.

@TaraMarie
I have experience with taking a role of a lazy, ignorant kid (as I was put in that place by my parents)
So what I try to exercise is telling Olivia what she did on this particular ocassion rather than telling her that she is some way . (Like You spilled the milk instead of you are clumsy) Though her dad bombs any progress I make whenever she gets there. (because he doesn't believe it's important how you say things)

@R&R I do agree with you on the sugar intake thing, Oliwia has access to sweets but like with every other food she has her favourites. But, probably because she's so small, she always gets nutty after eating chocolate (I can always say she has been eating it by the way she behaves)

I talked to her yesterday, she couldn't explain why she acted like she did. Today she is prommised favourite sweet if she eats whole lunch at school.

Funny thing is that few months ago, when she thought that she will need to decide if she wants to go with me or stay with dad she was constantly crying, sulking, hiding and being sad little puppy. After a talk that she doesn't have to decide and us parnts will do it the best way we can so that she can spend time with both f us she came back to being happy, energetic self. Apparently knowing that adults are deciding helps kids and makes it easier for them to accept the change.

Absolutely correct! Children, including teens, WANT parents to make their decisions for them, no matter how much they rebel. Remember, brains aren't completely formed until sometime in your twenties. Logic isn't always logical!

[differentcountries]

How are you and your kid doing these days?

[aniay]

We are doing as of as we can while being apart.
She seemsvto have settled into living with her grandparents, is way calmer and obedient than when I was still there.
I'm a bit worse, missing her like crazy.
Lying didn't end though, only now it seems to be about how others treat her. She says people are nasty to her whienvthey aren't, or she tells different things to everyone, I can't really do anything about it now beside talking with her.