Just bought a ring and have a plan

[Ejoriah]

That's a really neat box. How exciting!

[bubblehits]

The ring is gorgeous! Good Luck!!!

[hmrambling]

Update

I proposed at the Grand Canyon. She said yes and accepted the ring. However, the answer is really no. She doesn't believe in traditional marriage, announcing an engagement, calling each other fiance or wearing engagement rings. She really liked the box. In fact, she liked the box most.

She said she was both sad and jealous that I proposed to her because she had no input and wasn't able to participate in the preparation of the proposal. She really is opposed to one partner proposing to the other and believes that the proposal should be mutual. She argued that one person presenting a ring to the other reaffirms traditions that say one person is dominant and the other person is submissive. She rejects the idea that one person should be dominant and the other person shouldbe submissive in the relationship.

She wants to live together some time in the future, and says that she felt the proposal really pressured her to find a job near me and move in with me. She also perceives it as being easy for me to propose because I'm not really sacrificing anything. I haven't committed to moving closer to her or finding a job near her.

So we're not engaged, have no real plans to marry, are planning a future together and are uncertain about how we will close the distance.

I pled my case and said that our future and relationship can be whatever we want it to be. It doesn't have to conform to what society says it should be. We can do our own thing. I reminded her that we have talked about the future and had very loosely made plans. She participated in those talks and initiated those talks as well. I explained that the proposal was never an attempt to commandeer the relationship, nor establish dominance in the relationship. I encouraged her to open her mind to understanding that we can define our own relationship and be who we want to be.

I feel kind of exhausted with the discussion. I expected questions and a certain level of apprehension, but I didn't expect to have to fully validate the proposal.

I'm baffled about how a mutual proposal would work, especially what the point of it would be if one of the two people rejected the ideal of marriage.

I've resigned to the fact that I've chosen a love avoidant who is unaware of her love avoidance. I believe I am detatched enough that I am giving her enough space to process her own thoughts and feelings. At the same time, the romantic aspect of the trip really lost its luster. Analyzing and validating a proposal doesn't feel romantic at all.

I'm glad she likes the box and I really want to move on.

[80anthea]

I'm sorry you didn't really get the outcome you were hoping for. Were you aware of her feelings about proposals, marriage etc before or is this all a new revelation to you?

I suppose you still have to look at the positives in that it has made you both discuss the future and how that may work. I guess you now have to decide whether you'd be happy long term in that kind of relationship and how important the idea of marriage is to you.

[hmrambling]

I was aware that she doesn't subscribe to traditional marriage. We've attended weddings and she talked about what she liked and didn't like. I've even asked her what she would like for her own wedding, and she seemed most interested in having a nice reception. She also said she would like Buddhist throat singing. So it's not like we've never talked about it, or that we don't talk about the future.We do. I reminded her that we've been talking about the future and planning for a future.

Our planning for a future is not all in my head. She knows that. The proposal made it very realistic to her and it scared her to death, she said, because he finances are not where she wants them to be and because we haven't moved in together and we don't have a solid plan. She has some uncertainty about if she wants to change jobs or get her PhD.

Perhaps the timing wasn't perfect. I believe that nobody would ever be engaged or married or have kids if they waited for the perfect conditions. If I waited for perfect conditions, we might never have went on our first date or second date or third date. I was registered to run races and skipped training dates, and even skipped a race or two for our dates. Suppose I waited for perfect conditions - we wouldn't have ever met probably.

I stated in my last post, I fully expected some apprehension... but I really didn't expect her to say that it scared her to death.

How will I feel long term in a relationship like this? I will feel like I'm in a relationship where the relationship isn't celebrated, like a second class relationship, like an inferior relationship that is hidden. I don't need public acknowledgement to affirm my relationship, but I do want a partner who is proud that I'm her partner and who is super excited to be with me. "This scares me to death" doesn't scream that someone is super excited to be with me. It screams love avoidance.

[kittyxuchiha11]

Do you maybe not think that she just really really didn't expect you to propose and it's made her suddenly realise her life isn't on track as she first thought it would be/she isn't at the right point in her life at all?

I had a moment a bit like that the other month. I was showing my friends a ring I wanted to get my SO and they all really overreacted and were like oh so when are you gonna propose are you gonna do it when you see her in a few months, and it just sort of hit me that yes i do want to propose to her and the idea of marriage is something i do want, but it's something i am so not ready for in my current state at all. I had built up this idea in my head that i want to hurry up and settle down and marry someone i love but then suddenly reality hit and i realised there was no way in hell i was ready at all and although i liked the idea of it the reality of making such a big commitment now scared me.

Obviously you and your SO are a lot older than me but that would happen at any age i believe. As you've said, the conditions weren't perfect and she wants the perfect conditions, well whats to say the perfect conditions won't happen in the next few years? the thing about being engaged is it puts a stress on some people that they need to get married and have their lives sorted but as soon as it happens, where as some people view it as just sort of something to say yes i want this to happen but not for awhile yet but we are planning to take this step together.

Anyway, big hugs for you and i hope you guys can move past this!

[snow]

I feel really bad for you. If this happened to me, I'd be pretty much devastated. If she wasn't ready to get married, she should have said so and not thrown around excuses.
She knew you wanted to get married, she talked about her own wedding which means she wanted to get married as well, you've been together for a while and you have been talking about the future.
This all just seems so heartless. It breaks my heart to read what she said. Even if she didn't expect it, saying that it scared her to death is really hurtful. The whole thing with submissive and dominant sounds like a cop-out as well.

Give it some time to sink in and maybe talk about it again.

[R&R]

I feel really bad for you. If this happened to me, I'd be pretty much devastated. If she wasn't ready to get married, she should have said so and not thrown around excuses.
She knew you wanted to get married, she talked about her own wedding which means she wanted to get married as well, you've been together for a while and you have been talking about the future.
This all just seems so heartless. It breaks my heart to read what she said. Even if she didn't expect it, saying that it scared her to death is really hurtful. The whole thing with submissive and dominant sounds like a cop-out as well.

Give it some time to sink in and maybe talk about it again.

I 100% agree with this.

When I was reading what happened, after all the thought and love you put into it, and the absolutely selfish response from your SO blew me away. Instead of thanking you for everything you did, even if she wasn't ready to accept the ring or say yes, instead it was all about her and not being a part of it. Hate to break it to her, but generally proposals are NOT done jointly. I don't know - it would really make me rethink everything about the relationship.

[hmrambling]

Give it some time to sink in and maybe talk about it again.

No.

The day after I proposed I told her that since she took issue with me initiating things that I would discontinue initiating any forward momentum in the relationship. It's really up to her now.

The other day when I was doing dishes I thought about how she said that we really need to get to know each other better. I'm all for dialing it back and just getting to know each other better since she brought it up. It really is in her court now.

[Sparkling72]

...

How will I feel long term in a relationship like this? I will feel like I'm in a relationship where the relationship isn't celebrated, like a second class relationship, like an inferior relationship that is hidden. I don't need public acknowledgement to affirm my relationship, but I do want a partner who is proud that I'm her partner and who is super excited to be with me. "This scares me to death" doesn't scream that someone is super excited to be with me. It screams love avoidance.

Just like everyone else said... that was a selfish reaction. You put so much thought and energy into something that had been discussed more than once and it was not blindsided. I, too, would be devastated. A ring, in my opinion, is an outward symbol to me and for everyone else to see, that I am proud of the relationship I am in. Love avoidance or not, a reaction of that sort is downright hurtful and malicious. Maybe she didn't intend to be malicious, but if you're in love with someone, and you're going to say "no" then you don't do it like that. I am devastated for you!! Seriously take time to think about what kind of person you want in your life... for the rest of your life. Hugs!!

[hmrambling]

*Update*

We talked over the weekend our conversations didn't seem near as exhausting. She said that after she has had a few days to think that she wants to wear the ring and prefers to call it a commitment ring. She is definitely on board with continuing to plan for the future, and was glad that we opened up conversations about the future.

I told her that her initial response was disappointing and that I really felt like I had to validate the proposal for the 2 days that we were at the Grand Canyon. I also told her that I felt that we each catalogued our discussions about what we wanted in the future differently. We had in fact discussed what we wanted in the future prior to me proposing to her, and when we discussed the future and planned for the future, I catalogued those conversations as high priority and important while she may have felt like she was just having conversations about what she wanted in the future. She agreed that we catalogued those conversations differently.

We discussed her getting her PhD and how that would affect her financial situation if she did go back to school. We agreed that it would impact her financial situation, and she has now accepted that I might be the breadwinner during the time that she goes back to school. (At first, going back to school and not being able to contribute as much was a hindrance in her opinion, but now she sees that she could still work toward us living together and accept that I might very well be the breadwinner in that case and that she would be okay with it.) So what has happened since I proposed is that she had the opportunity to talk to other grad students to see how they are making it, and the other grad students talked about how their spouses are breadwinners while they are in school. This helped with her level of acceptance.

We are now on the same page about where we are and she asked me if I would wear a ring if she gave me a ring. It seemed like a no brainer, but it is progress now that we are using our words. So I said yes. She wants me to give her some input about the type of ring I would like. It would be super neat if we both had antique art deco rings with filigree.

In non-traditional fashion, we've agreed to call it a promise to commit instead of a formal engagement. Both of us were really glad to get all of this out in the open.

She expects to hear back from the school about the assistanceship in about 2 weeks. If they accept her for assistanceship and if she agrees to go, then we will be making plans for her to move in.

Thanks for all of your feedback....

And yes, she does still want to have a mutual proposal somewhere down the road. And I'm okay with that.

[hmrambling]

Grand Canyon Pics

[lilspitfire]

Gorgeous ring. Good luck!

[Ejoriah]

Gorgeous ring. Good luck!

Yo maybe read the whole thread next time.

[hmrambling]

Things are still progressing along. This weekend we talked about her pursuing her education and accepting the assistantship. We talked about her moving in and the two of us getting a house together later in the year once she has a semester behind her and has had an opportunity to adjust to student life, assistant teaching, and student income. We'll have a better idea where we stand financially as far as looking at houses, and will have our houses on the market by then or will have sold our houses. Things are definitely moving forward. Plus she took the ring to a jeweler to get it properly sized.