Does it really matter that much?

[garnet]

Not only that, I also see marriage as a partnership of two people who are friends as well. They trust one another and are one another's support. When people have marriage problems, I think the first thing they should do is seek counseling, and divorce should only be an option if that does not help.

I'm just quoting this as an example, but on a semi off topic note, I was married 11 years, until my now ex husband moved in with his stripper girlfriend and her kids. The point of my sharing this, is that you can walk into a marriage with the very best of intentions, sure it's forever, saying nothing is too big to fix (not that YOU are saying this, again the quote was just a quick example), but there is no way to know what is going to happen down the line. You can't predict what another person will do no matter how well you know them.

A good friend of mine is going through a divorce after about 20 years of marriage, he left one day, came back with a cop and served her with papers. There was no indication this was coming.

I guess I take a bit of offense when people say they are so opposed to divorce, or they KNOW it wont happen to them (one last time, not aimed at Bluestars, this is in general). Life can knock you over real quick, and sometimes divorce happens. I filed for mine, not because I take marriage lightly, or for any other reason, but because it was over no matter what I said, thought, or did.

[Čternity]

I'll only speak from my own experience here. I was one of those women who faked smiles so I didn't have to show anyone that my marriage wasn't working and get a divorce. Outwardly we were the perfect couple. Both our parents were still married and we took our vows very seriously intending on being together forever whatever it took.

I wanted to stay together for the sake of the children and so did he. And it worked for awhile, except we were miserable but still trying to make it work. We tried for years to keep it all together, stuffing down our feelings. In the end the toll on your physical and mental health starts to be too great. Sadly your kids learn to do the same as you and it's not healthy. They start acting out with all the tension and unresolved feelings in the house. Kids are far more perceptive than you imagine.

We tried different things to make it work, talking about it, time apart, counselling, medication. You can love someone and it still not be enough to solve your issues. In the end it just didn't work. It was very sad all around and people were speechless when we separated because we were so good at covering it up. Apart from abuse, I think you do need to earn your way out of a marriage, you do need to give it everything you have got, exhaust every possible avenue but even then sometimes it isn't enough. When people ask me why I got a divorce, the only answer is 'we made each other miserable even though we did love each other'. You may think that's not possible but it is. To me that's why love and marriage have very little to do with each other.

Interestingly, there is research to suggest that if the parents are happy, the children grow up happy and more well adjusted. This could mean a happy marriage or a 'happy' divorce. This is just how it went for me. I hope that other's marriages work out the way they hope they will.

[Bluestars]

We tried different things to make it work, talking about it, time apart, counselling, medication. You can love someone and it still not be enough to solve your issues. In the end it just didn't work. It was very sad all around and people were speechless when we separated because we were so good at covering it up. Apart from abuse, I think you do need to earn your way out of a marriage, you do need to give it everything you have got, exhaust every possible avenue but even then sometimes it isn't enough. When people ask me why I got a divorce, the only answer is 'we made each other miserable even though we did love each other'. You may think that's not possible but it is. To me that's why love and marriage have very little to do with each other.

Interestingly, there is research to suggest that if the parents are happy, the children grow up happy and more well adjusted. This could mean a happy marriage or a 'happy' divorce. This is just how it went for me. I hope that other's marriages work out the way they hope they will.

I just want to say that reading this made me sort of feel an admiration to you. I know that all marriages do not work. People change and things go wrong. But I hope that if I was ever in that situation, I would do exactly what you did with your ex--try to make the situation better. I have learned the hard way that if one person doesn't want to put in the effort to try and fixing things, then the marriage is doomed from the start. Hopefully, my future partner will have the same views on marriage as I do so that if complications do ever arise, then we can attempt to work through them like you did.

Also, like I said before, I did not want my post to offend anyone (not sure if it did), but I would like to say that I do not cannot completely condemn it because my father remarried a woman seven years younger than him quite soon after their divorce, and now I have two half-brothers. Because of that, I can't say that divorce is horrible because if my parents wouldn't have gotten divorced, then my brothers would have never come into this world. I also am probably happier now than I would have been if I had to live with my dad because he is not a good person (which sort of goes back to what Eternity is saying about the children being happy).

I guess I take a bit of offense when people say they are so opposed to divorce, or they KNOW it wont happen to them (one last time, not aimed at Bluestars, this is in general). Life can knock you over real quick, and sometimes divorce happens.

Sorry if I did offend you (I can't tell), but I just wanted to let you know that I do know this because my mother sure didn't expect her to have it happen to her after 18 years of marriage. It just scares me that it can happen to anyone because I would probably not be able to trust anyone again after what I have been through. BTW, I am sure that in your case it worked out well since you met Rane

[Trethsparr]

The point of my sharing this, is that you can walk into a marriage with the very best of intentions, sure it's forever, saying nothing is too big to fix (not that YOU are saying this, again the quote was just a quick example), but there is no way to know what is going to happen down the line. You can't predict what another person will do no matter how well you know them.

Thanks for providing this perspective, Garnet. That's so true, and not something that a lot of people consider when it comes to divorce. (I know I tend not to think too much about it, myself.) There are two people in the marriage, and it ultimately takes two people for it to work. All I can hope for is to do my absolute best and hope my SO does the same.

[Silviar]

I guess I take a bit of offense when people say they are so opposed to divorce, or they KNOW it wont happen to them (one last time, not aimed at Bluestars, this is in general). Life can knock you over real quick, and sometimes divorce happens. I filed for mine, not because I take marriage lightly, or for any other reason, but because it was over no matter what I said, thought, or did.

Not to pick on you Bluestars, but I think you and garnet opened up a good discussion piece out of this - in a good and healthy way. I wanted to say that I am one of those quickly married and divorced statistics. I don't believe in divorce unless it's a last option, and I didn't marry out of a hasty desire to be married, nor was I in the honeymoon phase.

The basic fact of my marriage was that my husband, literally right after we got married, changed into a different person. Once he had me, he turned into the proverbial spoiled child husband who expected me to not only be the housewife but also the breadwinner. He informed me that he suddenly didn't want children, and stopped trying to better anything in his life.

I did everything to try and make it work. I tried to be everything, I went to counseling, talked, argued, pleaded, begged - oh, the begging mortifies me, but I did - to try and make things work. Every broken promise or claim to work on things that he tossed aside just broke me further.

After all of that, I initiated the separation and divorce. And I felt like a shell of a human being. In some ways I was - my weight spiraled out of control, I barely functioned socially, and all of my money went to supporting us in such a way that I felt impoverished. I remember one night sitting and calculating if we could stretch the canned food out for two weeks so we could skip going to a food pantry. Yet because my marriage was just under 3 years, I get scorned by people because they assume I was one of 'those stupid kids' who thinks of marriage as convenience and decided to divorce when it was no longer a convenience. How marriage is a convenience is beyond me - it's a promise to make things work no matter the circumstances. There is no convenience, just work. Worth it with the right people, not worth it with the wrong ones.

I didn't want to get a divorce. I still dislike part of myself for doing it.

[JoMarie]

This is a fantastic discussion. It's amazing how peoples views on marriage change, but it makes me feel so much better about how many times I've changed my mind on the subject!

I never remember ever wanting to be a wife as a child. Many woman tell me they have had their dream wedding in their minds ever since they were little girls! It always baffled me because as far back as I can remember, the only thing I ever wanted to be more than anything in the world is a mother! The idea of having my own baby, to love and nurture has always tickled me to death! Obviously now as an adult I understand that a child needs more than love! But back on the subject.

Would it be a deal breaker if Kevin never wanted to marry me? Honestly I think the only thing wrong with that is, I would feel like I wasn't worthy of his hand. What I mean by this is, if you are willing to spend the rest of your entire life with someone, but not ever marry them, I would wonder what the reason behind that is. If he had a good reason for it, it wouldn't have bothered me. I say wouldn't because honestly my views have changed.

I am going to be the mother of his child. The child that I carried, that was made from pure LOVE. A child that will no doubt have his last name. I want his last name for nothing more than that. I believe I deserve to have the same last name as my child. Is that stupid? Maybe to some people but it's important to me.

I feel that Kevin and I will get married when we are ready to. We aren't ready right now. Our parents are trying every which way to convince us that we're ready. We ARE NOT ready yet. When we are ready, we will get married. We will get married because we love each other but more importantly we will get married because he is my best friend, and I am his. We will get married because at this point we have EVERY intention to spend the rest of our days together. Does that mean we won't get divorced? No. Life has it's own plans. We will not get divorced without a fight though.

I think marriage is for best friends. I think if you can live with someone, and be HAPPY and I mean REALLY happy then you should get married.

[Karringtyn]

Been married twice. Will be divorced twice. I loved both of my husbands. As much as I could at that point. I was very young when I married the first time. We were both virgns.. We were divorced in less than a year. WHAT? My ex was an abusive man. Mentally and Physically. I was played with, tossed around, and thrown out. When he moved on to other woman I had enough.. I wasn't going to try at a marriage where there was NO where to go but more abuse and cheating. A year later I met my second husband. I was deeply enrooted in my eating disorder and our marriage was a constant battle of my sickness and his enabling. I loved him as much as I allowed myself to love. I always believed that I needed someone to complete me. UTTER bullshit. I don't need ANYONE to complete me. I have learned through many years of therapy that I need to be complete in me and then being with someone will ADD to me. (KEY POINT IN LIFE)...I lived my marriage with fake smiles. I was miserable. 16 years later...3 kids later...I was watching Dr. Phil...and heard the words that stopped me in my tracks....

I would rather have my kids FROM a broken home than living in one.

Wait??!! I felt parents SHOULD stay together for the kids. But as I stayed with my ex...I was showing my kids so much dysfunction. So much lack of respect from both of us. We tried...we did the therapy route, we did so much to make it work...After exhausting every avenue....I had to leave.

Will I marry again? Looks down at hand. Sees diamond.

This time I am marrying because this is the man I absolutely love and want in my life by my side.

Does marriage guarantee that person will be there forever? Um. See above.

There is NO guarantee. But do I regret marrying them? No. Neither of them. At the time in my life I truly was entering marriage because that is what I believed in. Never once did I enter it with ANY possibility of divorce being an option.

I had someone say to me at work once..."When I marry it will be forever."

I looked at her...and said..."I think everyone does."

When you see a divorced couple...take a step back and remember two things.

1. There are two sides to every story.
2. Everything happens for a reason.

I thank my first two husbands. Both of them helped me become the strong person I am today. I can stand on two feet in my confidence. I know what I want out of life and I will never ever feel bad about myself because I have two failed marriages. But rather...I was loved by two men as much as they could, learned from them, grew in myself through them, and now I am at a different time in my life.

I have my love. THe one that is perfect for me NOW. Had I met him 20 years ago would he and I had been together? I can firmly say NO to that. I had to experience what I did to be in the here and Now.

Just my thoughts.

[RyanJr]

I've been reading a lot of posts in this thread..its quite interesting to see everyone's responses. I never wanted to be married. I told my SO that.. and said that i would just in the future, want a "commitment Ceremony".. because i didn't need a piece of paper telling the world that I'm hers. Marriage does NOT always end in divorce.. but now-days..theres so many things you hear about..and i, personally- after working at a law firm where i saw all the divorce wars, i was really turned off about the thought of marriage. But, i have asked my SO to spend her life with me. She has a ring...and although yes, we are young and bla bla bla...i truly believe that when you KNOW...you Know. I don't think love needs an age. In the last few months though, Marriage has been on my mind. I've decided that I would like to be married to my SO. That.. you can't be negative about marriage, because then why enter into a commitment like that in the first place? I know i wanna spend my life with her..and that is what i plan on doing. But- im not one of those people that says oh nothing will ever come between us..cuz who's to say in 10 years where we will be, but I know I love her with all my heart, and i want a life and family with her and thats all that matters. We are in no rush tho..and although there is an engagement.. i feel we should be financially stable to start a family and all of that fun stuff first, before entering into marriage, just my opinion though. And, i also don't think there should be a "timeline"..because every person is different. i know people who have been together 2 months then got married, and i know people who have been together for 10 years before getting married!! It just all depends on the couple and their future thoughts and plans!

[mllebamako]

Thanks for sharing that Karringtyn. It is really interesting to read this thread and different peoples opinions.

[Karringtyn]

Thanks for sharing that Karringtyn. It is really interesting to read this thread and different peoples opinions.

You are welcome! As I reread it....It STILL cannot express how firmly planted I am in how I feel about marriage/divorce....but I did try.

[Silviar]

You are welcome! As I reread it....It STILL cannot express how firmly planted I am in how I feel about marriage/divorce....but I did try.

I feel you, I really do. Same here.

[Zephii]

JoMarie:I can really relate to what you're saying. I only ever wanted to be a mum too, and coming from a single parent family, I wasn't particularly fussed (and still aren't) if the father of that baby stays on the scene.
The last name thing is important though! Last year when I was working as a nanny, the little boy had his dad's last name, but it was I or his mother that took him to appointments, and I saw her struggle with having a different last name to her child. It was a small town, so there was a little stigma, but it was mostly the having to correct people all the time. If Obi and I do have our children out of wedlock, I will probably insist that they have my last name, simply because if the relationship does fail, it'll be me taking care of them. Though, this is something I should discuss with him more in-depth. Might be interesting.
I like your "marriage is for best friends" thing. I really do

Karrington: I think you did a really good job on expressing how you feel. You've been through so damn much, but yet you're still so positive and ... well, young spirited. It's refreshing.
I'm not a big fan of Dr.Phil but this

I would rather have my kids FROM a broken home than living in one.

is a gem really.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.

[agentholli]

Marriage is important to me. If Mark said im not going to marry..i would really have to reconsider the relationship. I won't live with someone until I am married to them...so it would never really work out if we weren't married. well honestly, i wouldn't mind living with him before we were married, but with my kids, its a religious thing and they are told in church to not live with someone until marriage..and I don't want to be hypocritical to them. Yeah, strange maybe to most, but my whole family would die if we lived together also..i don't want to make any reason for them to not like Mark. They are all ready skeptical cause he isn't from the same religion as I. ok, that is way off left field...

I think marriage is also a major commitment, and I want someone to commit to me. I want someone to wear his wedding ring and be proud of it. Be proud that he is my husband. I want to be married for several other reasons. Just my two cents

[NikkiP]

*takes a deep breath and slowly exhales in an effort to come up with some sort of clarity for the millions of thoughts circling around my head*

You asked for it... So here it comes.

My dad dated a woman for 7 years before he met my mother. My parents were together for three years. They got pregnant, married in September, I was born in January and my mom hit the road running when I was 6 months old (Married life from September of '86 to July of '87 though it took almost 8 years for them to become legally divorced).

My mother never re married and my dad got the divorce from my mom to marry my step mom. They have now been married for almost... 14 years I think!

So what did I learn from my parents? Getting married because you're pregnant is NOT the answer. "We had never planned on staying together" my mother will still say (yes, 23 years later she is still that bitter).

So, I very much want to be a mom. While I learned that getting pregnant is not a reason to marry, I also very firmly believed that in order to get pregnant, that I should be married. So, less than four months after my 21st birthday I married a guy who I had been with for two years. Looking back now we will both tell you that we knew before we said our vows that it was not the right move for either of us. But we had agreed to it and we had paid for it and I guess we didn't want to hurt or disappoint each other?

So! We got married (obviously, yes, I know. Hush) and we moved into a tiny little apartment and then bought our first home and immediately started trying for a family... And continued trying for a family... And then tried some more... And then broke up... And then went through counseling... And then got back together... And then tried some more... And then fought some more... And then tried some more... And then fought some more... And then fell into this crazy stage where we very much pretended to be the perfect couple on the outside and went our separate directions the moment we were behind closed doors.

So now I am moving out next weekend and after almost two years (of our 2.5 years of marriage) of constant battling to twist and turn ourselves into this person that we thought the other person wanted but could never stay that way permanently and that's my story...

All of that being said I'm still fairly certain that I want to be married again before I have children so I think that's the hardest part about all of this.

Wow yeah. So now I guess you guys know my story. Can't believe I held onto it for that long.

[Zephii]

Thank you for letting that out