Paris and Amsterdam

[Manoek]

I feel required to respond on this thread because I'm Dutch.. But unfortunatly I have to confess that I would be a tourist in Amsterdam as well

But I totally agree with everything Kittyo9 says:

Both places require several days to really see everything you'd want to see. Amsterdam has a lot of great museums and historical sites that I found very interesting. I'd suggest looking them up and choosing some that you think your family would like-- they can be tricky to find, but you'll see so much on your way there! When I went there, my friend and I really only got to spend 2 hours just walking around and looking at things, but in the time I was there, I took some excellent photos and saw all sorts of parts of town, including the Chinatown in Amsterdam and a bit of the red light district. You could rent bikes there if you wanted and bike around with your family. Just be careful if you decide to walk-- the bike traffic is incredible!! And the trams don't like to stop for anything, either...

For Paris, I've only been very briefly, but from some of my friends who went for a weekend, they said they barely were able to see half of what they wanted to see. So I'd recommend like 4-5 days+ in Paris itself, and at least 3 in Amsterdam.

I really enjoyed my train rides-- even the long ones to Amsterdam and back from Luxembourg. I think it would be the best way for you to go as well.

The younger people get english in school, when I was in southern France last year we hung out with a bunch of 18 year olds and they could speak enough english to have a conversation with. And also what Rach321 says.. Learn a couple of basic French words, they really appreciate you trying!!

[snow_girl]

Manoek, I was hoping you'd reply! Anywhere else you'd recommend going in the Netherlands?

Thanks everyone for your replies so far!

[Manoek]

Manoek, I was hoping you'd reply! Anywhere else you'd recommend going in the Netherlands?

Thanks everyone for your replies so far!

That's what I thought But if I would go to Amsterdam with my SO I would show him the typical things..

Go on a boat trip in the canals, red light district, see museums and go out to see the Dutch nature.

General tourist information: https://www.holland.com/global/tourism.htm



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank_Museum
https://www.annefrank.org/en/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijksmuseum
https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/index.jsp?lang=en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madurodam
https://www.madurodam.nl/en/visit-the-park/buy-tickets/


And ofcourse the Dutch flowers & Windmills
https://www.keukenhof.nl/en/


https://www.kinderdijk.com/

[Tooki]

I hate to be picky, but people from Luxembourg aren't French, they're Luxembourgers. (Which I think is a pretty hilarious word!) Though it's a small country, it's most likely quite a different culture.

It really bugs me when people write off French people being rude as "anti-American". French culture has much different social priorities than American culture does, and often Americans are unaware of this and thus wires are crossed and everyone misinterprets each other. For example, French people don't talk to strangers--it's just something that's not done. They think it's beyond strange when random people come up to them and talk, especially because, at least in Paris, the only people who do that are scammers. Also, I think native speakers of English in general tend to take the fact that English is a tourism lingua franca to kind of absurd and entitled lengths. Of course a French person is going to be weirded out if you walk up to them and speak English. The grand majority of them outside of the tourist/business industry only learned it in school and barely speak it. Wouldn't you think it a bit strange if someone expected you to speak a foreign language that you don't speak just because it's his/hers? Of course you shouldn't limit yourself to visiting only countries whose language(s) you speak, but, expecting everyone to be perfectly polite in a foreign country when you only speak English to them, outside of very specific touristic areas, is completely unrealistic.

I'm not picking on you specifically, kitty, so I apologize if this comes off that way. This is just one of my big pet peeves.

I agree with you completely.

I definitely think their is a complacency amongst the English-speaking countries when abroad. I've seen native English speakers approach people in Paris and just start speaking in English. But French is also a major language worldwide, so I understand the French people not being so jolly when you start speaking to them in English without warning.

But with the smaller European countries, I have found English is always used first in the tourist areas. Unless it is explicit that the person speaks Finnish, I have found that Finns communicate with Estonians in English when they visit Tallinn. In the Old Town, the workers will speak to you in English.

With the global influence that English has today, it is understandable for someone to approach a random person and speak it. Especially in a country where the native language isn't a major language worldwide.

If you are in a country and you don't speak any local language, English is going to be the safe bet 9/10. You go to Asia, and English will be the language thrown around at a Westerner. But also, if you go to Australia you will be a goner without English unless you are Chinese.

*And I'm one who always tries to learn some of the basics of a language before I visit.

(Again, I agree with what you have said 110%)

PS: I was told by the one Dutch guy that I know, that you should visit places outside of the Amsterdam. But he is also from South so I would just listen to Manoek

[CynicalQuixotic]

I agree with you completely.

I definitely think their is a complacency amongst the English-speaking countries when abroad. I've seen native English speakers approach people in Paris and just start speaking in English. But French is also a major language worldwide, so I understand the French people not being so jolly when you start speaking to them in English without warning.

But with the smaller European countries, I have found English is always used first in the tourist areas. Unless it is explicit that the person speaks Finnish, I have found that Finns communicate with Estonians in English when they visit Tallinn. In the Old Town, the workers will speak to you in English.

With the global influence that English has today, it is understandable for someone to approach a random person and speak it. Especially in a country where the native language isn't a major language worldwide.

If you are in a country and you don't speak any local language, English is going to be the safe bet 9/10. You go to Asia, and English will be the language thrown around at a Westerner. But also, if you go to Australia you will be a goner without English unless you are Chinese.

*And I'm one who always tries to learn some of the basics of a language before I visit.

(Again, I agree with what you have said 110%)

PS: I was told by the one Dutch guy that I know, that you should visit places outside of the Amsterdam. But he is also from South so I would just listen to Manoek

Oh, I'm not denying at all that English is spoken widely in continental Europe--that's why I said that it was the tourism lingua franca. I definitely agree with you that especially in Scandinavian countries (where they probably speak better English than we do, let's be serious ) and I guess Eastern Europe, English is the way to go. I've only been to Western European countries, so I can only speak of my experiences there, but even in Germany they were much more amenable to speak English and much, much more proficient in it. It was my first time ever being in a country where I didn't speak the language, and it was a really humbling experience. I did manage to get by with my tiny vocabulary of "hallo" "danke" "eine Currywurst und Pommes, bitte" and "zwei Bier, bitte" which is pretty much all you need to know in Berlin, from what I've told!

It's sort of cruelly ironic because Paris is the most popular tourist destination in the world, but it is populated by people who are extremely preservationist and particular about their language.

[Tooki]

Oh, I'm not denying at all that English is spoken widely in continental Europe--that's why I said that it was the tourism lingua franca. I definitely agree with you that especially in Scandinavian countries (where they probably speak better English than we do, let's be serious ) and I guess Eastern Europe, English is the way to go. I've only been to Western European countries, so I can only speak of my experiences there, but even in Germany they were much more amenable to speak English and much, much more proficient in it. It was my first time ever being in a country where I didn't speak the language, and it was a really humbling experience. I did manage to get by with my tiny vocabulary of "hallo" "danke" "eine Currywurst und Pommes, bitte" and "zwei Bier, bitte" which is pretty much all you need to know in Berlin, from what I've told! :P

It's sort of cruelly ironic because Paris is the most popular tourist destination in the world, but it is populated by people who are extremely preservationist and particular about their language.

I've found that English is very useful out east. The local languages are only really spoken within the country, so English is often used when neighbouring citizens visit. Russian CAN get you by in the Baltic states, but they aren't the most loved country .

I guess what I was trying to say, was that you are stuffed trying to traverse Europe without knowing English. Especially once you go out East. But even in Australia, people only speak a second language unless your parents speak it, or you WANT to. So that could go to explain some of the complacencies in travelling abroad.

And yeah, the Scandinavians speak English ridiculously well. Even the Finns grasp it very well, but their accent is so thick.

But I feel for the French. English has taken over from French as the global language. They lost their colonies and the US became the global power.