ADVICE PLEASE: Closing the distance or breaking up

[stephanie_nyc]

Backstory: We've been dating for nearly four years, most of which have been spent thousands of miles apart. When we first began dating, we agreed that we'd do long distance for 2 years, in which time he'd finish his degree and move here to be with me while I finish my degree. The 2 years came and went, and he was not even close to finishing up his degree. He took semesters off, took semesters part-time etc etc. Last year in August, we decided it was time to get serious about closing the distance. We had set dates before about when he'd move here to be with me, but they had all come and gone. We finally got serious and he started saving up to make the move. We stopped taking trips out to see each other and we've just been saving every bit we can.

Both of his parents are very against him moving (he still lives home with his dad). His dad is making it extremely difficult on him by not letting him take his car with him over here. His dad says that if he moves to NYC, he'll fail, that we'll break up, or that he won't be able to get a good enough job to support himself. His dad says that once he moves out, he will no longer support my bf in any way shape or form, including help with tuition!

My bf needs the support & help of his parents to make the move over here. The only help my man will be receiving is from me and my friends. One of my friends is letting him crash at their place for a few months while he gets on his feet. Another friend of mine is helping him get interviews for entry-level positions at some companies in the city.

We are just 3 weeks away from closing the distance but my man is having serious doubts. His dad keeps telling him that he'll fail out in here NY, and that he's not prepared for the real world yet. His dad keeps telling him to move out on his own in California first and try things out there. AND, his dad told him that if he doesn't move to NYC, he will buy him a car!! (Wtf!!) My bf is already unsure if he's ready or not to live on his own yet, and his dad is just making things worse. He's a suburban boy and I'm a city girl. I know that NY can be scary for someone who isn't from here and that rent is high and that jobs are hard to come by. But he'll have some help from me! We made these plans a year ago and now he's getting cold feet.

I'm sick of the distance. I'm SICK of it. I hate not seeing him. I hate not being with him. I hate not being able to do all the cutesy couple stuff on the weekends like brunch, museums, picnics. But most of all, I feel as though he'll never move out here or amount to much if he stays at home in that negative environment. Living at home for him as been terrible because he's not expected to do anything. His parents don't push him to finish school, they don't push him to do anything! He's 24 yrs old, with only 1 year of college under his belt and nothing more to show for it. He's 24 years old and lives at home. Not only do I feel like him moving over here would be great for our relationship, I think it'll do him good to stand on his own two feet and fend for himself. Moving to NY will be a growing, life experience for him that he desperately needs!

So I essentially gave him an ultimatum. If we don't spend our 4 year anniversary together, then there won't be a 4 year anniversary. It's tough for both him and I, but I really feel as though he has no motivation to do anything except wait for me to graduate school (which I will be doing next year) and move out and have him move in with me. I don't want that for him, and I don't want that for me. I want to know that the man I'm with is capable of taking care of himself. I'm not trying to be a sugar momma! I don't want to break up, I just want him to grow up and be the 24 yr old man that he is.

Am I being too harsh on him or is this tough love what he needs? Advice on what to do? What do you think the best plan of action for us is?

TL;DR - Bf is trying to move over here but his family is against it and he's having doubts. I gave him an ultimatum to either move here or we break up.

[kteire]

I never think giving ultimatums is a good idea. It sounds like he's got a very difficult predicament, and I wouldn't say he's entirely to blame. His dad sounds extremely controlling, manipulative, and overbearing, and if he's not been able to break free of that before, it's going to be an absolutely massive step for him when he does. It's also an incredibly hard thing to basically have to pick between your SO and your family, and it's too delicate a situation for it to be fair to say "Move or we're done". What he needs to do is stand up to his family, not just for the sake of your relationship, but more for his own sake. Try being supportive of that instead of adding an extra dimension of stress to it, and be honest about how you're feeling. Like try telling him you're having serious doubts because of how he lets his dad treat him, and that you want better for him.

Beyond that, I'm not completely sure to be honest. You've already given an ultimatum, and I've never seen one of those end well. Whatever he chooses in the next few weeks, it will be a very hard decision. While you can try to reason with him about it, it's ultimately his decision, and you're forcing his hand a bit by saying you'll leave him if he chooses wrong.

[lala]

Though situation..
I am in a similar situation like your SO. 24, living at home..studying..no job (because I'm full time student) and having overprotective parents and the same dad he has. Now I want JUST to visit my SO this summer for 7 weeks and it cause a big problem for my dad..

So reading your story it seams as your SO is just not ready to leave home. He is stuck there and afraid doing his own thing. he is afraid that something won't work out between you guys so that he has to come back home and then listen to his dad telling him that he already knew that it would fail. just that you know, it's a really hard situation (been there a few times). So he maybe needs longer with school because he can't do this decision now or he has some real problems at school and just needs more time.

I agree that it is maybe wrong setting a date when you want him to move out. From his side this would sounds maybe a bit harsh and egoistic from you. He has to be ready to move out and leave his home and not you.
But on the other hand I totally understand you. 4 years are a long time and you both wanted to close the distance and now you feel disappointed and hurt...so you set a date. Plus you are more confident ad independent which is good and you want an equal partner..

I could understand that you are fed up with waiting for him. but you have to ask yourself if you really want to throw away all those years because your SO needs more time to make a big decision.and for him it really is a big decision.. and step to lean against his dad and leave his family.

It's a really big decision you both have to do now. So what helps is talking to eachother and not listen to parents or family.. JUST you two!

[Haley53]

I never think giving ultimatums is a good idea. It sounds like he's got a very difficult predicament, and I wouldn't say he's entirely to blame. His dad sounds extremely controlling, manipulative, and overbearing, and if he's not been able to break free of that before, it's going to be an absolutely massive step for him when he does. It's also an incredibly hard thing to basically have to pick between your SO and your family, and it's too delicate a situation for it to be fair to say "Move or we're done". What he needs to do is stand up to his family, not just for the sake of your relationship, but more for his own sake. Try being supportive of that instead of adding an extra dimension of stress to it, and be honest about how you're feeling. Like try telling him you're having serious doubts because of how he lets his dad treat him, and that you want better for him.

Beyond that, I'm not completely sure to be honest. You've already given an ultimatum, and I've never seen one of those end well. Whatever he chooses in the next few weeks, it will be a very hard decision. While you can try to reason with him about it, it's ultimately his decision, and you're forcing his hand a bit by saying you'll leave him if he chooses wrong.

I agree with this.

Here you have someone who's been told their entire life that they're not going to get anywhere if they branch out farther than their father can control them, someone who's being rewarded for allowing that control and manipulation to happen (e.g. the new car if he chooses to stay in CA as opposed to moving to NY), someone whose father has probably so brainwashed them in ways that while it may be easy for you to see the negative effect on your SO, he may very well start to see "rational" thought in his father's opinion. This isn't to mention that his father has an incredible pull when it comes to finances. I have been under the thumb of my grandfather for around three years now. I have cut financial ties with him where I can, but he still pays my tuition, and I'm not stupid enough to throw away four free years of undergrad tution, no loans to worry about, when I can limit contact and time spent with him and deal with it the best I can. However, I can say that being so dependent on someone, especially when I was dependent on him financially for other things as well, can be extremely limiting and absolutely terrifying to let go of. Here I have a well-paying job and I'm still terrified to cut my grandfather out of my financial life completely, despite all the shit he's put me, and my family, through. My point of this is that it's not easy, and it's all that much harder when you're fairly reliant on the person who's controlling you.

The other thing is that it's still likely to be difficult for him when he moves there. Yes, he has you, and friends, too, but are you all going to be able to hold his weight financially in the same way his father does? Could you provide the same opportunities easy peasy? The thing is that he has never been pushed to do anything, and on top of that, he's constantly being told that he'll fail and more or less being brainwashed into the idea he needs his father for that support/in order to make it. Throwing him into the middle of NYC and telling him to, essentially, survive is one way of doing it, but it's possible that this is a character trait that will continue surfacing in your relationship even when he's away from the influence. Our environments can have an exponential impact on the way we turn out as adults, and while it's definitely reversible, in most cases, he may carry this lack of motivation/work ethic with him even to where you live. I don't point this out to be a nay-sayer, but I see a lot of people who feel like closing the distance or doing this or that would ultimately change their partner's behaviour or characteristics (for some, it's been ambition, for others, lack of work ethic, etc.) and in many cases, these people end up being let down. Being able to communicate in person and only through sex, for example, does not eliminate the communication problem when the couple is close-distance, same as moving him out on his own will not remedy his lack of agency. He may become more agentic because he has to, but those values will not likely be internalised and thus, will later surface.

With all that said, I do feel your ultimatum was a bit harsh. While I can understand being tired of the distance... You're more or less asking him to choose between you and his family, between your home town and his, because you can't handle the distance anymore. You're asking him to make the sacrifices because you can't deal with another year of long-distance, even if that additional year would be what's best for your relationship. I understand that you had plans, but life happens, and things change. Especially in four years and especially at your age, they change. However, given that he wants to wait until you move out so that he can move in, as opposed to moving sooner and living out on his own, again, that's something you have to look at in conjunction with his one year of college, with the fact he's more or less done nothing, etc. These things are very telling about a person as much as you want to ignore them. You seem to have this idea that closing the distance will not only remedy your feelings but it will force him to change and grow, and quite honestly, this is the biggest mistake I find that a lot of people make, is having these grand expectations. I know you feel like it would be a great learning experience for him, and maybe it would be, but it's not going to work if he doesn't want to glean anything out of it. If he doesn't see the value in it, it will do nothing but make him resentful. The thing about expectations is that the polar opposite is often equally as likely to happen. I don't mean to dwell on this issue, but no one should go into something with the idea or expectation that it will change something about their partner. Most of the time, it does not.

However, I feel like you really need to sit and think about this situation. Here he's being told his family will more or less disown him, that they won't help at all, and he's expected to move across the country for a relationship he's constantly being told will fail, in a busy place that he's not used to and where jobs are hard to come by. How would you feel if the roles were reversed? I can understand your frustration at the potential change in plans and I can understand your frustration at his situation, but you cannot learn his lessons for him, and as much as I wish I could tell you otherwise, I feel like your ultimatum is rushing something in such a way it might ultimately destroy it.

[Jazi]

I agree with the other two lovely posters completely .

I also wanted to throw in my own thoughts -

How did you come to the decision that NYC would be the best place for you two to close the distance?
It is a HUGE thing to move across the country and even bigger if you've never lived without your parents. I'm afraid to move out of home and I'll only end up moving less than an hour away and will still have their emotional support!

I know this part is probably harsh but.. all I can really hear in your post is "me me me", "he is moving to NYC to be with me, I'm a city girl, I'm sick of the distance, I'm forcing him to make the jump or I will break it off" - not any of these are particularly bad things to say and you do have the right to feel upset and fed up with the distance.. but are you thinking at all about how he feels? His family are not on his side, his gf of 4 years is going to break up with him if he doesn't make the biggest and most uncomfortable decision of his life to move across the country after never having lived out of home, moving to a big new city without a job or somewhere to live and KNOWING he is giving up any kind of decent relationship with his dad (and maybe the rest of his family for it) and to top it all off he has to do it in a certain time frame dictated by your ultimatum.

He's 24 yrs old, with only 1 year of college under his belt and nothing more to show for it. He's 24 years old and lives at home. Not only do I feel like him moving over here would be great for our relationship, I think it'll do him good to stand on his own two feet and fend for himself. Moving to NY will be a growing, life experience for him that he desperately needs!

and in this ^ part i can't help but think it kind of sounds like you're his mother.. Also, I can see that you're very biased about him moving to NYC but honestly, he could move 20 minutes down the road from his parents and still earn some great life experiences. You said yourself that NYC is very expensive and very hard to come by a job, so I am very curious as to why you (both) are so set on NYC? or are you the main pusher in him moving there and he is just agreeing? Does he ever express excitement when talking about living there? Or does he only seem excited about living with you and not actually about NY itself?

I really think you need to try a COMPLETELY different approach, the person who is going to move is giving up their entire world to be with you, this is something that cannot be rushed, pushed or forced.. it will NOT turn out well in the end if it is. I understand you've already given him an ultimatum and it's extremely hard to change how you feel once you get to that point but I would in this situation really pull back on it, you need to be the supportive understanding one in his life, his parents aren't supporting him and now you are verging on it too unless he 'does it your way'. cut the guy some slack, he is in a horrible situation and you are really adding to it.

I know my post is pretty harsh.. I'm sorry about that, It seems like you really need to get a shock back into reality, I would hate for your relationship to end because you pushed it too hard, 4 years is a long time to invest and to not see the distance end is distressing but being LDR with the love of your life is 1000000x better than being with the average joe that you don't really care for down the road.

[books]

I think you really need to think long and hard about what his experience in NYC will actually be like. I grew up here in NYC and have seen countless people come and go. So many people move here with "big city dreams" and they sincerely want to make it, but life is very tough here. They give it a shot and realize it's not all it's cracked up to be and then leave. What will it be like for him being that it sounds like he isn't even excited about coming in the first place? Actually forget being excited...where is his determination and hustle? The job market is TOUGH right now and if he's not bringing some real skills, what are his actual prospects?

[stephanie_nyc]

Thank's everyone for their responses. I don't feel like any response was too harsh, in fact, I'm glad everyone was as honest and upfront as they were. Advice isn't about hearing what you want, it's about making the right choices. So thanks Jazi, books, kteire, lala, and Eclaire!

The ultimatum came before his dad started trying to bribe him to stay. It was only a few weeks ago that his dad told him that moving wasn't a good idea and that he didn't support it. Before then, we were both under the impression that his dad was supportive. He would always talk to my bf about making plans, crunching numbers, getting all the facts and helping him plan it out. I gave him the ultimatum sometime in January because I didn't want things to turn out the way they had before - where we would say that we would be together by X date and then do nothing do get there. The ultimatum was only meant to light a fire under his ass. But now I see that it's only stressing him out more.

We chose NYC because that's where I am. I grew up here and now I attend college here. I still have another year or so to go before I'm done. After that, I am up to moving anywhere. I told him that I was open to the idea of moving to CA but for the moment, it has to be NYC since I am not in a position where I can transfer schools. His school and work situation allows for him to have more flex so we both agreed that he should be the one to move.

We talk about him moving here often. He seems more into the idea of living with me than specifically living in NYC. He does think that there's more opportunity for him out here than where he is now and that the job market in CA is worse than in NYC to which I have to agree (especially in his area - about 3 hours north of SF). I do agree that I do "mother" him a bit where I push for him to go to school and do well for himself. His mom loves me for this very reason and loves the fact that he is moving here, but of course she's heart broken that he's leaving. Regardless of how she feels, she's been supportive of the move 100% of the way.

After posting this yesterday night, he had a talk with his mom who gave him clarity on the situation. Afterwards, he told his dad that he was definitely moving but asked if he would have a place to stay should he come back to visit. His dad said yes blah blah blah, and then went on and told him that if he needs help or advice on anything, like taxes, residency, leases, that he wouldn't give him any help on that sort of stuff. Which, IMO, is ridiculous!!! I don't know why his dad is going to such extremes. So yes, he still has his doubts but he said that he would never forgive himself if he didn't at least TRY to move over here. He'd rather try and fail than to not try at all.

[stephanie_nyc]

He doesn't have many technical skills that aren't above the normal (like basic computer knowledge, MS Office etc, 55wpm) but he is extremely reliable when it comes to work. He tries his hardest all the time, and he's so responsible. At the place he works now, they're constantly calling him last minute to cover shifts or do other things because he is that "go-to" guy. His bosses know that they can count on him all the time, every time. If they asked him to work every day for a month, he would do it without complaint. I know that once he's hired over here, they'll never regret it because of how hardworking he is. His only downfall here is that he lacks the ambition or motivation to go out and get these jobs.

I do have a few friends who are setting up interviews for him at a few companies. The positions are ones that don't require a degree, or at most, expect you to be working towards your degree while you work.

[Moon]

Hmmmm...are you sure you can't stick out the distance for another year? I know it's not fun, but it'll go by faster than you think, and it might give you both some clarity in the meantime. A cross country move can be terrifying for some people, maybe that year will help him mature and you won't be so stuck with school. (Sorry in advance, Eclaire, but... ) Men tend to mature a little more slowly than women do, so what you're ready for and what doesn't feel like such a big deal to you might be really different for him, which could be why he's not ready to stand up to his father yet. If you are sure hes the man you really, REALLY want to be with, a year shouldn't make too much difference.

While I generally don't agree with ultimatums, there are some instances where one might be appropriate, BUT you have to be prepared to live up to your side of it! Be very careful with using them, as they don't always work out in your favor. Good luck,

[dukes2011]

I completely agree with Moon that a person can truly grow in a year. Also boys tend to mature later than girls. My SO is 23 and is just starting to find his voice with standing up to his parents. His dad can also be very controlling and it drives me crazy that my bf can tell me how he's feeling about a situation but will not always tell his dad. As far as wanting him to move and be his own to grow, I know what you mean. I was mad at my SO last year for not moving out since I feel like he could have used it too. I asked my mom for advice and she told me if I pushed too much, he may do it to keep me and not because he wanted to. I bit my tongue and didn't constantly bring it up so he would want it for himself. He recently got a full time position for next school year and that has vastly changed his outlook. Perhaps when your SO finds work he will see things differently too and it may force him to grow up a little.

[stephanie_nyc]

Thanks Moon and dukes2011!
I think we're so close to the moving date that it wouldn't matter if I pulled back on my ultimatum. We've made all the plans already and I doubt my telling him that it was an empty threat would change anything now. At this point, ultimatum or not, the move is definitely on. For him, it has sort of become a proving point to his dad. He really wants to move here and show his dad that he made it without his support. His dad and him have never had a good relationship. My bf has said in the past that his dad feels more like a Craigslist roommate that you never talk to than a dad.

Dukes, I completely agree and I'm in the same boat! He'll have talks with his dad about things that sometimes leave him frustrated. Then he'll call me and tell me about it. He's telling me everything he should've told his dad while they were talking. For instance, when his dad was telling him that he'll end up failing at moving over here because he's not ready, my bf texts me this verbatim- "There's lots of times in life where we want something but we are not prepared to get. Well guess what, you didnt prepare me for any of them. You say by idle thinking I'm going to wake up and better myself. Well, I'm trying to better myself and now you can't support me?" This was what he wanted to say. I asked him if he actually said it and he said "no, but I was thinking it."

He still hasn't said any of this to his dad.

[stephanie_nyc]

Hey all!

Just wanted to update this since I left it on such a negative note ...

WE DID IT! He's been here for about a month and has since found a full time job in the city. It's been awesome so far and all the issues we were stressing over in May seem like a lifetime ago. Our plans for the future and moving in together are tentative as of now but it's just more stuff I'm looking forward to.

Thanks for everyone's advice and support!

[dukes2011]

I'm so excited for you! I'm really glad he found a full time job in the city and that you guys are doing well. My boyfriend is also moving out of his house and I'm so happy. His mother isn't taking it the best. I keep telling him she'll be ok with time and that it's his decision.