back "home" :( :) :S ???

[lunamea]

Just an update (and a few indirect questions for advice interspersed):
I arrived back in Austria two days ago and my husband and mom came to pick me up at the airport. All my fears about my hb being distant and generally not seeming happy that I'm back came true. It was really awkward, already at the airport, because I didn't know if I should kiss him or not and the awkwardness continued even after we got back home and were alone. He said he felt like I was a guest in our apartment and it didn't really seem like I was going to stay and I didn't feel at home either. I still don't, really, but I know that is a matter of time.

Anyway, yesterday (my second day here), all hell broke loose when my hb went out to meet a friend (I had told him to go, because having him there but acting so distant just killed me) and while he was gone, I checked my email and stuff. I came across the webpage of a club my hb and his friend go to (it was bookmarked), so I checked out the photos of the last weekends and found several pictures of my husband with other women. Just standing next to each other or talking (which, in a club, means leaning in and talking into the woman's ear). My reaction was so strange. I had expected that if I ever came across pix like that, I'd be mad as hell and want to kill him, but I was just in shock and really sad. He had always said he goes out to have fun with his friend and (except for a few pictures) his friend was nowhere to be seen in the photos of my hb with the women.
When he came back home, I talked to him about it and he explained that it was just random women he talked to a little and promised that nothing had happened. I hadn't gotten through viewing all the pix on the site (there are 200+ per weekend) and while we were talking, my hb told me that there was one photo where he "posed" with a woman because the photographer had allegedly said they make a nice couple. I hadn't seen that photo yet and I believed him about the other ones because one of the women was a friend of his friend's wife and the other woman was in several other pictures with other men, too.
Yesterday night, I saw the "couple" photo and that totally freaked me out. It's not like they are kissing or anything in it, but he has his arm around her neck/shoulder and they're standing pretty close and he's not wearing his wedding ring (as he often does not, allegedly because he forgets to put it on). I'm glad he had warned me about the pic before because I'm pretty sure I'd otherwise had a heart attack. He claims nothing happened, that they just talked and then the photographer wanted to take a picture. I just don't know what to think. I couldn't sleep at all last night and just paced the apartment and cried and spent the whole day crying and drinking, too. I begged him to tell me the truth and he swore nothing had happened. When he saw how out of it I was today, he apologized and said it was stupid but that it was nothing to worry about. I want to believe him so badly and in a way, I do, because I don't have any hard evidence that something did happen. When I first confronted him, I didn't tell him what exactly is in the pictures and he immediately said he hadn't done anything but talking. I can't really prove him a liar.

I guess part of why I believe him is that the reason he didn't tell me about these things is that I'm super-jealous and generally freak out easily and also about small things. We talked about other things that he had told me white lies about, too, and he did all of that not to hurt my feelings. I knew that he was not telling me everything as every time I asked him how his weekend (going out) had been, he said "as ever" and I let it go at that, but I had no idea he was talking to so many women (4 in 4 months, one of whom was the friend of his friend's wife) and it just makes me think he's going out to hook up.

This comes at the worst possible moment, as I just got back and generally feel lost and homeless and because we haven't been the same ever since our almost-break-up a month ago. He has been going out every weekend the year I was gone and I'm not sure how much he's going to tone that down now. He asked me for more space and I was willing to give it to him (because I realized I had been controlling and had accused him without reason), but I have no idea how I'm supposed to do that now. Next weekend is my birthday and he already made plans to go out with his friend again (one night of the weekend, but still). His friend is a real a$$hole, immediately teasing my husband about being "hen-pecked" when he doesn't want to go out one night. When I visited for 10 days in January (after having been abroad for 4.5 months), my hb didn't go out during that time to spend time with me and his stupid friend (who's married, too, so should understand but doesn't) gave him hell about it. I also believe that all this "you're making me do things I don't want to do" that my husband had been going on about lately comes from this friend, too, who, when my hb says he can't go out one night, says "ohh, won't your wife let you out of the house??" This idiot is the last thing I need right now and I hate that the two of them have gotten to be so close friends.

I just have no idea what to do. Ever since our almost-break-up, my hb said he doesn't really feel the same way, like something is broken inside him and he can't tell me that he loves me (he says it back but won't say it first) and that coupled with the pictures I saw just has me completely desperate. I'm so afraid of losing him and at the same time have no idea how to handle this in future. He did promise not to go out clubbing much anymore but rather just for a few drinks in a regular bar, but he'll still stay out late (allegedly to save money, they'll wait for the first bus in the morning, meaning he won't be home until 6am!!). I've always had trust issues (and a temper, which is why I accused him easily but later on felt really bad about it... guess I wasn't that wrong, after all) and now I've just hit rock bottom and even though he hasn't been as distant anymore today, I don't know if I can do this in the long run and/or forget this ever happened.

[Bluestars]

*Hugs* I am not really sure if this will help, but I am sort of like you. I can be very jealous at times, and I freak out about small things quite often. Because of this, my SO has lied to me a couple of times about things, or he will just leave things out. For example, this one time we got in a huge fight because we were supposed to have a date on webcam and he was trying to cancel it at the last minute because he said he was really tired (at like 8pm so I did not believe him). After he whined so much, I said we could have it another day, but then a minute later he said he was going to the movies with one of his friends. I got SO MAD that he lied to me!!! I had never yelled at him before, and that was the first and only time I have really. After talking to some people about it, they said that I should try to be more accepting about things because the only reason he lied to me is because he accidentally made plans with someone after he said we could hang out, and he didn't know what to do. He lied because he knew it would piss me off--like it does every time he tries canceling an online date.

However, I understand that I need to handle situations like that better (even though in that instance I still believe he was wrong). Another thing that he hid for a long time was that occasionally he drinks. Now, I wouldn't have had a problem with that as long as it wasn't in excess, but in the beginning of our relationship he said he quit drinking since we started talking, so I just assumed it was true. He did not admit to me until over a year later that he did drink every once in a while, and I got mad because he kept it a secret, not because he drinks.

Basically, I know this is really hard for you--I would be mad as hell as well--but just try to trust him. I know it is hard, but after reading your post, it sounds like he is like my SO and he really just didn't want you to get upset. Unless there is evidence that more went on with those girls, then she should trust him. I hope that you can get past this because in the long run it probably is not that important compared to other things.

I do not know what I would do about his friend though and him hanging out all the time....that would drive me insane.

**But on a side note, I also believe that love takes a ton of effort, and even if someone feels hopeless like your husband, you can still get that love back if you work hard enough because what you had when you first fell in love is still there--you just have to find it. Jared and I once got in a huge argument that almost caused us to break up, and I felt exactly how your husband described. While our situation is not the same as yours, I could not make myself say I love you because I hurt so much. However, it took a bit, but after we worked on our problems, everything went back to normal.

I also suggest you read The Wedding by Nicholas Sparks. You might not like love stories, but it is the sequel to The Notebook. In it, an somewhat old couple has grown apart because he neglected his wife throughout the entire marriage. He realized that she was not in love with him anymore, so he set about winning her heart all over again.

[Zephii]

That must have been pretty awful
I believe though, if he were truly doing something wrong, he would have made it harder for you to find the pictures. If he's not trying to hide it, then I'm going to assume either he's just hanging out with so many girls for an ego boost or he's left the pictures where you can find them just to hurt you.
A lot of guys wont cheat to the extent where they end up tangled in bed, they just like the chaseing and flirting part - hell, I'm being sexist, plenty of women are that way too. Everyone wants to feel attractive.
With that said, he's not being loyal to you on other fronts, like with this friend. Granted, it's not easy to defend your SO against a mate - but you still should do it anyway, and it sounds like he doesn't.

But, conjecture isn't helping us find a solution either I guess. Hmm.

The thing is, you can't force him to stay home and spend time with you - you have to make him want to - and that may or may not be possible. You need to be the best option he has. At the moment, he's not happy at home and things are unstable with you so he runs away to this club, where suddenly he's an attractive fun guy rather than his regular self. It's about him feeling good. So, I'd do two things - first, I'd go out of my way to make sure I looked good all the time, then I'd make sure he saw me looking my absolute best before I went out on the town with my girls. (Granted, I don't club. So I'd make sure he saw me looking smokin' hot, then I'd go visit a family member and watch movies or something. :P ). Some nights you could also make that effort then say "I'm glad you're going out, I'm having friends over in an hour". In addition to making yourself more desireable, you need to try and make home less awkward and uncomfortable - and that'll be much easier said than done. But, he isn't going to man up and stop running away from the problems between you, and I'm old fashioned enough to believe that the majority of relationship issues are the female's job to fix.
I think the best place to start would be to give yourselves a "clean slate." It's hard, but if you're truly willing to start over both of you need to stop holding old hurts from the past against each other, and it means that when you get angry about something new you can't connect it to the hundred similar things he did in the past. "Just deal with the issue, not the person." You might also want to keep a notebook and keep track of both the things he does that are positive and the things that hurt you. I know when Obi and I are in a bad spot I tend to not see the nice things he does as much as the bad ones, and also if I do confront him about something I feel was out of line, he likes an example provided. I'd say not to keep a record for yourself at the same time, because this isn't a competition and if things become very obviously unbalanced on paper it'll just cause resentment.
The second thing to do I think is to clense your house. Wait until he's at work, open all the windows and doors (wash the curtains if you can) and then light a sage smudge stick and fill each room with its smoke, wave it up high and down low and in every corner. Once you're done with that, lightly sprinkle salt all through your house (don't worry, after the sage stick you'll need to vacume anyway), then walk back through your house again in the same direction as before, while ringing a bell. Once you're done with that, pray to whichever God you believe in (or the universe or your ancestors if you don't have a deity) to come and bless your home. Yes I'm a hippy, but I swear by this crap ^^;

Maybe after that you can enlist him in the fun activity of moving furnature around, so it doesn't look like the same unhappy place he's associating it with.

In a few weeks, perhaps you can give him taxi money and ask him to come back from the club a little earlier to spend snuggle time, or something - rather than asking him to not go out at all. Hell, you can even try and make it more raunchy than that if you're feeling confidant by then.
Work on not being his enemy first, and once that's achieved you can work on seeing less of his *cough* lovely friend.

Sorry for the length
Carrots xx

[Tanja]

I agree with what Zephii said pretty much - make yourself more desirable than spending time on a club with his mate.
When you go to bed, put on some new perfume or wear some hot underwear (but nothing too obvious and tacky like stockings and a corset lol).

It must feel like it's never going to be the same again but I'm sure if you make some effort it could go back to normal. How about having dinner or going for a walk in a place where you used to go on your first dates? That would bring up the good old memories and reminded you of the way you felt for each other when you first started seeing each other.

I hope he works for your relationship as well and not just run away from the situation, I'm sure if you remind him of the way things used to be when you were happily together (for example suggest something you used to do together that you both liked) it would bring that old sparkle alive in him.

What to do about his idiot friend, I don't really know... There's a saying bfs/gfs might come and go but friends are forever, that's usually how it is with mates I'm afraid

Best wishes and keep us posted on how everything's going ♥

[lunamea]

Thanks for your replies! I actually felt much better yesterday night, because when I went to bed, he held me really close and stroked my legs/back (he hasn't done that ever since I've been back here) and I kinda felt loved again. That's the way I fell asleep and I actually got up at 6am to say good-bye to him when he went to work and then slept some more and went grocery shopping and cleaned the apartment a little and was almost done making dinner by the time he got home. He kinda complimented me on the state of the apartment (he said I had been "a good girl" - it's hard to translate from German, but it basically means that and I don't like that phrase because a) it feels condescending and b) I don't ever want to feel like household is my job. Anyway, he also thanked me for making dinner and has generally been really nice overall (he also called me twice from work.) It's funny that it is exactly that that makes me think "guilty conscience." Like, he was soo distant when I got here, he wouldn't even touch me really or say nice things and now that I saw the pictures and I had my meltdown, he is suddenly too nice. I've been really nice to him, too, but it's less a conscious act than it is just me feeling completely numb and not caring anymore. Like, I would always care too much - when we had planned something and he would cancel it because he had to work longer or when he suddenly (as it usually is, because his idiot friend doesn't make plans more than 30mins ahead... like he seriously calls on a Friday night at 9pm and says "let's go out - I'll meet you in an hour!" to my hb and my husband will get ready and go) went out and could never tell me beforehand whether he was going out or not (in contrast, I make plans with my friends/family ahead of time - as most people, I guess - so I cannot just call up my friends at 9pm and say "let's meet up!"), I freaked out. Today, he told me that he should have worked longer but he wanted to come home in time and I realized that I seriously wouldn't have cared if he had come home later. He also met up with his brother-in-law yesterday and videochatted with his family quite some yesterday and today (which would usually have me upset and jealous, too), but now, I just don't mind anymore if he doesn't spend time with me. To me, that's actually a very bad sign rather than an improvement. It's funny that he takes it as a sign of me making more of an effort when it isn't really that.

Then again, there are things I still care about. As I've said, next Sunday is my birthday and I wanted to spend the whole weekend with him. Of course, for once, he already made plans with his friend to go out and I asked him to cancel this particular weekend and go out any other weekend. He flat out refuses. I told him I'm only asking this one time, I'll never ask a favor in that respect again, but he says I'm being unreasonable because he will just go out Friday night and spend Saturday and Sunday with me. Still, I'm thinking my birthday is only once a year and I've been gone the past 9 months and I'm feeling really shitty and he's not willing to make an exception. I also think it's less about him sticking to the plan and not canceling on his pal (they have nothing SPECIAL planned, for crying out loud, it’s not like there’s a game or a concert or anything) than it is about not wanting to set a precedent for the future. I’m not sure if that constitutes “not making an effort” on his side, but putting a regular guy's night out off doesn’t seem like asking too much to me.

Still, I can't seem to be really mad at him. Today, my mom called and I told her a little about my day (I had told her about the mess with the club pictures) and then we talked about accidents (because she had fallen in the bathroom a few days ago) and I told her that my husband had almost fallen from the roof today at work (luckily, a colleague grabbed him). This happens every now and then (he has fallen from ladders etc. a couple of times, too, but never got seriously hurt) and when he told me of such incidents in the past, I got really angry (because they're not always using safety gear) and we sometimes ended up fighting because I was like "change your job, it's much too dangerous." I was out of line then, I know, but today, I didn't get upset at all, I just thought how ironic it would be if he died now when it is me who feels like dying. Anyway, when I told my mom, she said something about him deserving it because he's treating me that way and causing me so much hurt and I started crying immediately, so my hb noticed and made me tell him what my mom had said. Funny thing is, I cried because that was just such an ugly thing to say, not at all because that is on my mind, too. I know that my mom wanted to kill her first husband when she found out that he had been cheating on her and she still says she would not help him if he lay dying at her feet, but I'd never want something bad to happen to my hb and actually don’t think I could ever physically hurt him, not even if he did cheat on me. Perhaps it is because my mom's husband had denied all allegations before (there was gossip about him cheating on her) and she had believed him and shortly after, she found out that he had been lying and felt like a fool for believing him. I think that hurts the most, to know that they didn't have enough respect/courage to tell you the truth even when pressed for it. I talked to my hb about people's reasons not to admit that they cheated and what he said made me wonder, too - he said something about everyone having their reasons, whether it is not to hurt the other or to gain some other advantage (someone to cook and do laundry or provide money), so I'm thinking perhaps he is lying to protect me because I'm already as weak as it is.

Yeah, I know that I need to cope with little things better as well. But in my book, that was not a small thing, it was pretty major (and he admitted that, if he saw pictures like that of me with guys, he'd freak out, too). Any person looking at that pic would think they are a couple and I still can't get it out of my head. I'm flip-flopping between believing him and thinking he's lying, as his behavior does seem suspicious. As it's my birthday next weekend, we talked about what to do and he suggested a movie and/or dinner and I said I'd like to go out clubbing with him. He refused, saying that he won't go clubbing much anymore with his friend either, so why should he go with me. I'm guessing he thinks it's a ruse to meet the girls I've seen in the photos and see how they react towards him and part of the reason might be that. But I would also just enjoy going out with him, perhaps dancing a little and bringing back old memories (we met in a club.) He's been saying for quite some time that that's not something he likes to do with me, he'd rather do other things with me (going out to a movie, dining out, staying home) and that's just very hard to understand and accept. It might be because we had a pretty bad argument while going out together on our anniversary a few years back (we went to the club where we met), but I'm not sure if that's the reason.

[lunamea]

I can't believe this is so long I had to break it up... uhm... sorry *blush*... or thanks to anyone who actually takes the time to read!

I believe though, if he were truly doing something wrong, he would have made it harder for you to find the pictures. If he's not trying to hide it, then I'm going to assume either he's just hanging out with so many girls for an ego boost or he's left the pictures where you can find them just to hurt you.
A lot of guys wont cheat to the extent where they end up tangled in bed, they just like the chaseing and flirting part - hell, I'm being sexist, plenty of women are that way too. Everyone wants to feel attractive.
With that said, he's not being loyal to you on other fronts, like with this friend. Granted, it's not easy to defend your SO against a mate - but you still should do it anyway, and it sounds like he doesn't.

I'm not sure about making-it-harder-to-find-the-pix, as he's not very computer-savvy and he did say "stupid me! why did I bookmark that page on this computer!". Then again, they were not super-easy to find, either... like, I was theoretically out of line in going through his bookmarks and then I had to browse through thousands of pix. He hadn't seen all the pictures I found, but he had looked at the "couple picture" himself, because obviously, he was aware of it having been taken (in contrast to the other pix with women.) He removed the history of other pages he had looked at, though (he didn't do this when I visited in January and a bunch of porn websites popped up on me and I got really upset back then). I don't think he'd intentionally hurt me - if that had been his goal, it would have been much easier to just tell me about the women.

I totally agree on the chasing-and-flirting part - even though I had not been aware of this previously, it makes sense now that I think about it. Like me, he has kind of a low self-esteem, so that may play into it, too. And he has been like that with me, too, when we met. I sometimes wonder if the biggest attraction to me was that I wasn’t willing to have sex with him right away and made him wait… and he still likes that in foreplay. He likes to have to seduce me.

What to do about his idiot friend, I don't really know... There's a saying bfs/gfs might come and go but friends are forever, that's usually how it is with mates I'm afraid

Well, seeing as he's only been friends with that guy for a little more than a year (we've been married for 4), I really hope that that friend goes again, not me. My husband also says that if he finds someone he likes better (he either doesn't truly like this "best friend" of his or he's pretending not to in order not to feed my jealousy), he won't spend time with this idiot again. He makes it seem like that guy is only a "makeshift friend" (he is about the only friend my hb has in our city (he also meets up with colleagues from work, but is not really close with them.)) That has me really upset, too - like, if you don't even really like this guy, why would you spend so much time with him??

The second thing to do I think is to clense your house. Wait until he's at work, open all the windows and doors (wash the curtains if you can) and then light a sage smudge stick and fill each room with its smoke, wave it up high and down low and in every corner. Once you're done with that, lightly sprinkle salt all through your house (don't worry, after the sage stick you'll need to vacume anyway), then walk back through your house again in the same direction as before, while ringing a bell. Once you're done with that, pray to whichever God you believe in (or the universe or your ancestors if you don't have a deity) to come and bless your home. Yes I'm a hippy, but I swear by this crap ^^;

LOL I actually think that’s a great idea! To be honest, I haven’t felt well about moving into this apartment ever since the landlady told us that the couple that had been living here previously had broken up after only 4 months of living in it and that was why the apartment was for rent again! We’ve had problems even before we moved in, but it does seem like everything went down the drain since we’re here. My hb is not as superstitious as me, though, so he thinks that’s BS. Also, I dreamt about what has happened before I came back - I dreamt I saw a picture of my hb with another woman and in my dream, I was like "God, don't let this be true" -- it's funny because I only remembered the dream when I thought the exact same thing upon seeing the photo.

In a few weeks, perhaps you can give him taxi money and ask him to come back from the club a little earlier to spend snuggle time, or something - rather than asking him to not go out at all.

Oh, yeah, I talked to him about staying out late today. I’m thinking that staying in a club until 4 or 5am is okay, but staying in a regular bar, just sitting there and talking until 5am seems a little weird/not much fun to me… since he said he won’t club (much) anymore, I don’t see why they can’t go out from 8pm to 3am instead of from 11pm to 6am (they sometimes don’t even leave for the club until midnight and have drinks at his friend’s beforehand – another thing I don’t like at all: basically getting drunk before going out…).
It’s still getting worse, though – since one of the bars they go to is right next to his friend and his wife’s apartment, his friend invited him to stay over at their place and my hb thinks it’s a good idea! I just don’t understand that he can ask so much of me after everything that’s happened. Sometimes it seems like he’s just pushing the boundaries further and further until I’ll finally say “I can’t give you that much space, I’m leaving.”

[Zephii]

I really don't get the "I don't like the guy so I'm going to spend all my free time with him" thing. And as soon as you said he wont let you go clubbing with him it sent up red flags for me... that's just weird, even if you did have a fight at a club in the past, that's just one event... it seems weird to say 'never again' over one argument.
I just... *shakes head* I don't know.

When you were saying that you just don't care though (when he was being all nice to you, and when he said he didnt want to come home late) I think that's probably two things: Depression, and a self-defense mechanism to try and avoid more hurt. It's all a lot for you to take in at once, and it must be terribly hard not to be suspicious and second-guess every nice gesture. We're here for you.
I'm sorry I can't help.

[lunamea]

I really don't get the "I don't like the guy so I'm going to spend all my free time with him" thing. And as soon as you said he wont let you go clubbing with him it sent up red flags for me... that's just weird, even if you did have a fight at a club in the past, that's just one event... it seems weird to say 'never again' over one argument.
I just... *shakes head* I don't know.

When you were saying that you just don't care though (when he was being all nice to you, and when he said he didnt want to come home late) I think that's probably two things: Depression, and a self-defense mechanism to try and avoid more hurt. It's all a lot for you to take in at once, and it must be terribly hard not to be suspicious and second-guess every nice gesture. We're here for you.
I'm sorry I can't help.

Zephii, you ARE helping... a lot, actually! Thanks so much!
That's a great insight about the self-defense mechanism... I hadn't thought of that at all.


I understand why he doesn't want me going with him and his friend, that would just be really awkward and boring for me (they talk in their native language and I don't understand enough to follow a conversation), but why he won't go out with me, I don't get, either.
I guess telling me that he doesn't really like the guy has to do a) with not making me feel jealous and b) dissociating himself from the guy (whom I hate). I don't hate a lot of people and certainly have rarely had that kind of feeling for someone I haven't even met in person (I hadn't seen a photo of him until the other night either), but I could give you a page-long list of reasons why I despise him. It starts with him having been arrested for (attempted) rape (allegedly, charges were dropped, though) but thus not having gotten a visa/work permit (for which reason he's been unemployed the past 5 years and will stay like that for some time!!) and being a gambler and hating animals and homosexuals and it ends with him obviously badmouthing me/setting me against my hb without even knowing me... come to think of it, he's probably the last person I'd want to be friends with my hb, but what am I supposed to do? They are very distantly related, which is the only reason they got to be friends and I'm sure they wouldn't be as close if I hadn't gone abroad...

[Frank]

Hi lunamea. I must say that after reading your post and the other replies, I do believe that you are in quite the situation. I wish I could be more positive, but your hb is just acting not right for seeing his wife for the first time in 9 months. 1)I don't care who they are (wife, gf, relative, bf), if I haven't seen someone in 9 months I would want to spend time with them. 2) I could not imagine not wanting to spend the night with Michelle, especially after not seeing her for a long time. Taking a bus back at 6am?! To save money. No way. Please explain the rationale of 'saving money' by taking a late bus. If you want to save money, don't go out. Spend the money on YOU! :P

Why is it that he cares so much about this 'friend' making fun of him for not going out? Why is it so important that he goes clubbing/to the bar? If you are feeling that you are being improperly jealous of him, you are right to be jealous. But you are also right to not like him and be angry that he is poisoning your hb's thoughts.

I think Zephii had a good idea about redecorating and cleansing the house. He has been living there along for a while, and now, even though he is your hb, there is still a sense of you 'intruding' on his life. It really is not as harsh as it sounds, but he had a life style that he was used to, and now, since you are there, it has to be changed. He might be glad you are there, but as a guy, it is possible that his primal urges are telling him that you are in his territory. So, as Zephii said, make the territory belong to the both of you. Find a way to expel all these negative feelings, and then ask him to help you rearrange (even go pick out new color shades or pillows for example).

Those pictures that your hb had, while I can see how there are some of him posing with other girls, I think his explanations (looking like a great couple) are rubbish. If you look like a good couple, and the girl isn't your SO, don't go and prove to people and yourself that you could be a couple. I don't know lunamea, I don't like the fact that he feels he has to go out all the time and not spend time with you. I think you did the right thing by offering to go to the bar/club with him. It is good because it shows you are not trying to make him change his ways too much, but you would still like to find some way to be with him. However, it is odd (maybe even suspicious) how he would not want to go with you. Yes, he knows you don't care for clubs, but if he feels he has to go, and he would like to spend time with you, he would say, 'Hey, lets go." Why is it that he wouldn't want to go with you?

As for him being all touchy and cuddling in the bed with you, while it would be nice to just accept his actions as he loves you, I know you can't help but think he is just sucking up. Maybe you could try to stay out of your own head and try to be more in the moment.

There is so much going on in your life right now. Big changes for both of you. Maybe you do have to start simple. Start almost like you are a new couple. Do the cute things, don't look for so much from him. But also, he has to realize that he is not be a gentleman. He is not making you happy. He is not making an effort to make you happy. As a guy, I feel it is my job to do things that make Michelle happy. He is not treating you right, and he needs to step up and win you back. If he can't say he loves you, that is crap. He has to find a way to do so.

In love, you have to forgive and forget. Not dwell on the past. But amends have to be made. I hope he can realize that he is acting wrong, and that it doesn't take you freaking out on him.

[MadMolly]

Oh lunamea... I was going through a very similar situation as you with the going-out stuff and him not wanting me to come along and stuff... right now things are smoother but gah. I felt for you so much in your posts, I even cried a bit because I can really emphasise. I feel just as lost so I'm taking the advice given here for myself too . I hope things work out for you guys.

[Tanja]

I think Frank is right tbh, your hb really needs to pull himself together. He's not a single guy who's life involves around clubbing and flirting with other girls, he is your HUSBAND for god sake and he should act like it! You should be his first priority especially after you've been gone for 9 months - if I was him I wouldn't wanna be apart any longer, I'd wanna be together all the time. It does sound like he hasn't missed you that much.

Also him going out so much could be cause of a guilty concience, maybe he's trying to avoid talking to you and spending alone time with you cause you'd have to talk about things and maybe he's got something to hide? I hope I'm wrong though.

You need to ask him does he want to be your husband and spend time with you or be alone and go clubbing? Because he needs to choose and he better choose you or things are not gonna end well.

I know what it feels like to just not care anymore and that can be a sign that you're ready to let him go. But before you make any desicions you do need to talk with him and make sure you both know what you want. He did marry you and promise to be with you in good times and in bad so he should live up to those wovs.

[Michelle]

I agree with what everyone has said, so I'll keep my post short.

The part that really bugged me was that he won't take you with him clubbing. If he really has nothing to hide and there's nothing going on with him and one or more of the women that also go to that club, then why would he have any issue with you going out with him? If he has so much fun clubbing (so much that he can't skip a weekend) why wouldn't he want to to take you out for a good time as well? You came all the way back to be with him and he wants to confine you to his apartment. That's not fun at all.

When Frank was going to school and was with friends every weekend partying and stuff, he missed me not being able to be there with him. And when I was visiting him he'd take me with him, and he was so proud to have me on his arm. His attitude was "This is my girlfriend, isn't she beautiful." And some of the girls he hung around with were happy to meet me and would say, "He talks about you all the time!"

So I'll say it, I think he's hiding something. This doesn't sound innocent at all. What it does sound like is that if he takes you clubbing, there are going to be women there who are shocked that he has a wife.

In fact, I think the excuse for the "couple" picture he used was a cover up. Who would tell two random people if they are not flirting and hanging on each other throughout the night that they "would make a nice couple."?? I wouldn't do that, but even if some photographer would, why would your husband have touched her and gotten so close to her like she was his date? Just because that guy said that? Frank wouldn't touch or get close to any girl like that besides me. If someone came up to me and another guy and told us we would make a good couple, I would laugh and say, "I have one boyfriend, and one's enough!" and crack a smile for a picture a "friend" distance away from the guy the photographer thought could be my boyfriend.

He immediately brought up that picture before you could even mention it because he was afraid you had seen it. That right there says a lot. It's the first picture to pop into his head when you said that you had seen the pictures. It's the picture he didn't want you to see the most, so before you said anything he immediately told you an excuse.

[lunamea]

Thanks again for all your comments! I think all of your advice is really useful, I just have trouble putting it into practice. My hb doesn't feel he has to step up and win me back, quite to the contrary - he feels it is me who has to change and adapt to his new lifestyle because I'm the one who left to study abroad. He usually doesn't say so directly, but just today (when we were fighting) he said that I left him alone for too long and that he learnt how to enjoy being on his own and got used to doing what he wants and not having to justify himself/compromise (basically, he said it's my own damn fault that things are this way now... to which I replied that I would've come home in an instant if he had ever truly asked me to - he did say that it's harder than he expected and that he might not be able to do this a couple of times after I'd been gone for a while, but I never understood how serious it was - he always said he'd get used to it... well, he did, so much that he obviously doesn't want to go back to our life together...).

So, yeah, it doesn't sound like he missed me an awful lot and it also seems he doesn't love me anymore. I just wish he would straight out tell me instead of playing games. He did say that he wanted to give it another try and I knew that I had to change my ways, too (be less controlling and less of a drama queen), but the pictures just changed everything for me and he doesn't see that. I guess if I want to stay with him or at least make an honest effort at staying together, I have to believe him and forgive and forget. Right now, though, I can't seem to do that. I've been trying hard enough - I've been crying in secret and pretending to him that I'm fine, but today, I asked him again to put off this weekend and he, of course, said his "no" is final. So I felt really shitty but at the same time I wanted him to hold me, so I went to him to cry, which was a bad mistake. He always gets very angry when I cry and even though he did comfort me some today, we turned out arguing and it was just really ugly. I also can't seem to hold back little comments and remarks or stop asking questions about the pictures or about whether he still has feelings for me. I know it's wrong to dwell, but it's just always on my mind.

Tomorrow, I'll be going to visit my family and he thinks the change of scenery will be good for me. I think talking to my mom will make everything just that much harder, as she got cheated on a couple of times in her life and she now hates my hb. She asked me today if he still loves me and I honestly don't know. Actually, I think he doesn't know himself at the moment. He asked me to give it time, to just live a regular life for a while and see where we are going, without having serious talks all the time, but that's super-difficult for me after what happened. I think he has a point in saying that serious talks all the time are of no use, but I'm just looking for some real reassurance (other than complimenting me on having cleaned the apartment or fixed dinner or calling me from work) and he obviously can't give any. He said he's just always somehow angry at me, even if I'm being nice to him, which confirms my suspicions that he's still holding a grudge because I went abroad. Still, I feel it's wrong to keep from him that I'm hurting so much, but if I show it, he just gets mad and doesn't want anything to do with me, so in order to live a "normal" life for a while and see whether we work out again, I'll either have to pretend all the time or get professional help (medication) or both. Honestly, I want to do neither.

I've suspected that me going abroad is the crux of the whole matter to him for a while. He probably feels if I truly loved him, I wouldn't have gone. I still remember how happy he was when I told him I've decided to cancel the study abroad thing the first time around to stay with him. He also told me today that he thinks I don't respect him or the choices he makes, which I kinda understand because I used to criticize him a lot for different things (spending an awful lot of money on expensive clothes or clubbing or his family, his choice in friends etc.) and the fact that he practically didn't have any friends the first two years of our marriage and I was the breadwinner and paid for everything (which, I guess, means he didn't have any "power" in the relationship) certainly doesn't help, either, because now that he earns the money and has friends and had all the freedom in the world for a year, that certainly must seem to good to let go of again...

Oh lunamea... I was going through a very similar situation as you with the going-out stuff and him not wanting me to come along and stuff... right now things are smoother but gah. I felt for you so much in your posts, I even cried a bit because I can really emphasise. I feel just as lost so I'm taking the advice given here for myself too . I hope things work out for you guys.

Molly, thanks so much! I wish neither of us would be in this situation, but it's also kinda comforting that we're in the same boat... all the best for you, too! I actually thought about you, too, because I didn't see an update on your situation...

[Zephii]

Luna, I was just thinking of you.
*little sigh* there's just so much hurt for both of you to overcome. Resentment is a horrible thing
I understand your desire to sort it all out NOW rather than trying to act normal and just seeing how it goes, I don't think I could do that.
I hope visitng your mum will help in some way, even though her feelings towards your hb are less than ideal. She just loves you, wants what is best for you, and wants to try and protect you. Sometimes that's a bit overbearing, but it's kinda nice too.

How long is he likely to stay angry about you studying abroad? Does he hold onto anger long?

[lunamea]

Luna, I was just thinking of you.

Thanks! We do seem to be online at the same time a lot.

*little sigh* there's just so much hurt for both of you to overcome. Resentment is a horrible thing

Yeah... writing all this down actually makes me realize that I hurt him a lot, too... I guess I should've returned when he hinted at not being able to do this - I should have known that he would be too proud to say "please come back." I always thought of him as having a good self-confidence because he's keeping up an act a lot and I only found out quite a bit into our relationship that he isn't so sure of himself, either. That's all assuming he is the guy I fell in love with and married, of course, not the guy I can see in those pictures.

I think because I don't have hard evidence, my mom is trying to be impartial and nice about it, mostly. She doesn't really have an opinion on it either way, though... like she will go from "well, you know how guys are when they are drunk, they hug everyone..." to "he's just using you and lying because he wants to keep using you." *sigh* It's hard because her judgment is clouded by her own experiences and she usually sides with me and tells me I'm right without trying to see my hb's side of things.

I understand your desire to sort it all out NOW rather than trying to act normal and just seeing how it goes, I don't think I could do that.

I'd just like some reassurement, you know? Like him telling me that he's glad I'm back or that he missed me or that he would like to stay with me. I guess he might be saying that, in his way (which means, without words) because we talked about me getting an IUD again or us buying a car, but I guess he can't put it into nice words because he doesn't want to make promises. Considering that he's so angry with me, I guess I am asking too much...

How long is he likely to stay angry about you studying abroad? Does he hold onto anger long?

Good question. I'd like to know that myself. I feel like he's been angry at me for most of the time I was abroad. Come to think of it, it kinda makes sense that we got along better after I had been visiting because I had paid for the flight all by myself [we fought about that, too] as he was like "it's your decision whether you want to come. I'd be happy to see you, but I'm not telling you to come and I'm not paying part of the ticket." Still get a bad taste in my mouth thinking about that now. But I guess that I paid a thousand bucks to see him made him feel loved...
Anyway, I do think he holds onto anger for quite long. He hasn't talked to his brother with whom he doesn't get along well in months and the same for his brother-in-law (he had a good reason, though, as that jerk beats his sister.) He had been very distant ever since our almost-break-up a month ago and that only changed when I confronted him about the pictures. It's ironic because the way he's mostly acting now (when he is with me) is pretty much the way I wanted him to act (calling me from work, comforting me [a little] when I cry, thanking me for fixing dinner etc.) but it's all flawed now and has a bitter aftertaste.
I think part of his anger now also comes from long ago (having been kinda confined to home without money and friends at the beginning of the relationship), then there's the study abroad thing and then there is the almost-break-up. The latter hurt him badly, I think, also his pride, because he started crying and was ready to leave me/let me go.

I do think I see things a little clearer now after our fight today (he either admits or I realize things during fights much more) and perhaps two days or so away from him might help some. I just don't think I can ever say "have fun!" again when he goes out and I'll need to bite my tongue not to make a remark that will anger him.