Why do we put so much on a 'healthy' relationship?

[Jezah]

I was talking to some friends today at work, and reading cosmo just now....and something occurred to me. Why is it we can say "everyone is different" and yet still have a pre-established rigid belief of what is 'healthy' in a relationship. Outside of obviously culturally unhealthy things like verbal or physical abuse, why do so many people believe in this same one 'healthy' relationship.

The relationship I am talking about is one where there is a distinct removed him, you and we. Where the female is supposed to have her own group of friends, hobbies, activities separate from her boyfriend/fiancee/husband and be 100% self sufficient and NEVER EVER need her SO. Same for her SO. Spending too much time together in this 'healthy' relationship is seen as bad and UNhealthy. Preferring staying in with your SO instead of going out with your friends on any regular basis is 'unhealthy'. Turning to your SO when upset instead of your female friends is 'unhealthy'. Who made this the norm? Who says if you do or don't do these things your relationship is somehow judged to be bad or good.

I ask this after me and HBB have been essentially driven nuts by his friends and family who all believe in this view of what a relationship should ideally be. HBB gets out, he sees his friends about half of all weekends staying overnight, and plays soccer with them Mondays and Tuesdays. Yet outside of that and doing family things, he would prefer to just sit in his room on Skype and talk to me, play games with me or watch movies/shows with me. His dad and now his mom have ruled this 'unhealthy'. My cat got really sick and died, then the other got sick and had surgery and I was turning to HBB often as he knew how to make me feel better. His friends ruled this 'unhealthy'. I am so sick of that word I could spit. I am so tired of everyone else holding our relationship to a rigid standard and if it doesn't fit, declaring it bad. Me and HBB are happy, this works well for us and we enjoy it. Yet the biggest thing bringing us down is people telling us that this happiness is 'unhealthy' or that we only think its happiness but its really some sort of addiction or co-dependence.

I just need some insight as this is driving us both mad. Why can we readily admit we are all different, all have different likes and dislikes, do things our own way...yet when it comes to relationships it is one size fits all in societies eyes.

[lucybelle]

The relationship I am talking about is one where there is a distinct removed him, you and we. Where the female is supposed to have her own group of friends, hobbies, activities separate from her boyfriend/fiancee/husband and be 100% self sufficient and NEVER EVER need her SO. Same for her SO. Spending too much time together in this 'healthy' relationship is seen as bad and UNhealthy. Preferring staying in with your SO instead of going out with your friends on any regular basis is 'unhealthy'. Turning to your SO when upset instead of your female friends is 'unhealthy'. Who made this the norm? Who says if you do or don't do these things your relationship is somehow judged to be bad or good.

I don't agree with this at all. I do think it's important for each partner to have their own life, but I think you're writing it to an extreme. I've never seen anything written or suggested to this level. It's not that I need my SO, but he sure makes me really happy and I want him. There's a difference between dependence and enjoying someone's company.

My SO and I stay in almost all days together, and when we go out, we go out together. I don't think anyone would consider this "unhealthy". We can get along fine without being glued to each other's hips, but we have the same group of friends and like to do the same things. Now if I never wanted to leave the house without my SO on my arm, that'd be a different story.

[dukes2011]

I definitely agree with lucybelle that there is a difference between enjoying someone's company and dependence. Regarding the blurb she copied, I don't take that as people need to be 100% self-sufficient. I interpret it more as you should both know who you are as an individual. In my opinion, a relationship can't be solid unless both people are able to be their own individual. That can be anything from having different friends or just a hobby that the other person doesn't take an interest in. It would be a little scary if you were with practically the same person as yourself. There's nothing wrong with turning to your SO when you were upset about your cats instead of your female friends. After all, many people (including me!) think your SO should be your best friend. My SO is often the first person I call if I'm upset about something or just need to vent about a bad day.

[Zapookie]

The relationship I am talking about is one where there is a distinct removed him, you and we. Where the female is supposed to have her own group of friends, hobbies, activities separate from her boyfriend/fiancee/husband and be 100% self sufficient and NEVER EVER need her SO. Same for her SO. Spending too much time together in this 'healthy' relationship is seen as bad and UNhealthy. Preferring staying in with your SO instead of going out with your friends on any regular basis is 'unhealthy'. Turning to your SO when upset instead of your female friends is 'unhealthy'. Who made this the norm? Who says if you do or don't do these things your relationship is somehow judged to be bad or good.

I didn't know this was considered healthy and the norm? I've never heard anything like that in my life. Sure its good to have friends outside of your relationship, but what you wrote seems a little to me like a person trying to get away from their SO or to exclude them from their life. The whole point of having a partner is that you share you life with them, so it's expected that you go to them in times of need and that you do things with them, whether it be staying home or going out.

I think people will look at an LDR differently and might consider it unhealthy because it can end up with you sitting in front of the computer for a few hours at a time. If you were sitting at a desk writing letters to your love for hours on end, maybe they would think differently. I think its just the stigma of the internet.

Who are people to judge anyway? If someone thinks something is unhealthy, that's their opinion, just like I gave my opinion above. Everyone will have a different perspective on what they perceive as "healthy". It's not up to you to conform to their standards. Let people run their mouths, and continue to do your own thing.

[Jezah]

I think people will look at an LDR differently and might consider it unhealthy because it can end up with you sitting in front of the computer for a few hours at a time. If you were sitting at a desk writing letters to your love for hours on end, maybe they would think differently. I think its just the stigma of the internet.

This.

I think this is a big part of why me and HBB are attacked by his family and friends. Instead of us being able to hang out together with his friends, or go out to a movie, me and HBB only have skype. It leads to him going to his room and staying there for hours talking to me. Also, hate to say it, but a lot of this is also jealousy on his family and friends behalf. I am HBB's first serious girlfriend, his friends are very unused to sharing his attention and time at all. He is also the oldest child, and the first to have a serious girlfriend out of his 2 brothers, so his parents are unused to their son's affections and time going elsewhere as well. Its all causing them to throw out the word 'unhealthy' often in a hope they will get what they want...which is their friend/son back the way he was.

Maybe how I quoted it is a bit extreme, but the relationship that is considered 'healthy' in these magazines and society is one where the couple is together yet separate. Having very individual lives and also sharing some parts. Whereas me and HBB have very few things seperate, because we have almost all the same likes/dislikes. So we watch the same shows, like the same music, enjoy the same activities. However we do have our own things, like he plays soccer and I could honestly care less about the sport. I love horseback riding and he has never been and doesn't really have a driving need to either. So we have a few things different, but somehow everyone in his life sees the fact that from 3000 miles we both found someone remarkably similar to ourselves as somehow wrong. Either that or they just don't get it, haven't experienced it. I will admit, it is a big freakish how similar we are. We send each other the same link to the same picture 3 seconds apart when we weren't even discussing it (happened and we laughed), can say to the other "Know what I want to do?" and the other immediately knows, we hear a song in the car that reminds us of the other and when we get home we send the other the link only to find out they were waiting till we got on skype to send the same song. Its bizarre, but it allows us to be ABLE to spend hours talking and never get bored because the other is so similar you can always find a subject to discuss that you both are interested in.

I just get so frustrated being judged, and feel it is such BS really. Its like people, no matter if they are divorced, married, single, young, old...all feel they know exactly how a relationship should function/be and if ours doesn't they have the right to declare it unhealthy. Like suddenly everybody becomes a expert on the subject. Pisses me off >.<

[Dauntedpoet]

Maybe how I quoted it is a bit extreme, but the relationship that is considered 'healthy' in these magazines and society is one where the couple is together yet separate. Having very individual lives and also sharing some parts.

I know of NO couples in society that live separate lives where they only share some parts, yet have a happy and successful relationship. There is a VAST difference between being an individual, and having individual lives, by the standards you describe.. I have a very happy, long term, successful, and completely unhealthy relationship. You need to look to yourself, and your SO for the rules of your relationship, and what works for you both.

[eveningsky]

I understand where you're coming from, Jezah. I've had this happen to me a few times before. My SO's parents get mad that he stays on the computer with me as long as he does (when he's home). The whole reason you're in a relationship with someone is because they are supposed to be your favorite person to be with. I feel that a healthy relationship is one where you go to that person for support and talk to them about your deepest thoughts and hang out with that person the most. Otherwise, what's the point really? I understand the "good" of having separate lives but having different social circles is sometimes a matter of whether you, he or both of you are introverted or extroverted. It would make since for two extroverts dating each other to have separate social circles or not always go out together but introverts are different. Introverts prefer to be with people they're close to. That doesn't mean they might not have separate friends or social circles but maybe they just prefer to be with the most familiar of all the people their close to: their SO (I don't think there's anything wrong with extroverts who do that either but I would suggest that it's more an introverted thing to do many things together and we live in an extroverted world so there are probably extroverts who don't understand this.) Either way, people all are different what might feel "healthy" to some is "unhealthy" to others or vice versa.
I think what the magazines are trying to get at is that you don't want to be completely dependent on someone (like people have already said.) It's unhealthy if you think you'd be unable to move on (or at least have an ultra-extreme amount of difficulty compared to others who were in the same situation) if the relationship didn't work out for some reason or another. They suggest an outer circle probably as a way to "cushion the blow" in case it doesn't work out. Another thing to keep in mind is the people that write these magazine articles are no experts on the subject. They most likely know only about as much as the common person. If they were to have done research on the psychology of relationships then possibly their word is something to follow but otherwise, I would take their suggestions just as I would suggestions of any other random person I meet. Also, you know what? You and your SO's friends and family are probably not experts either!

[alesitag]

I totally understand your point.

I think this whole "unhealthy" label people has put to your relationship is obviously related to being an LDR and the internet usage. I know this because just a week ago, my mom started ranting about how "unhealthy" it was that I just stayed at home on weekends, doing nothing but being stuck to the computer.

doing nothing but being stuck to the computer

This part really pissed me off, because I'm not just stuck to the computer playing online games, watching porn or just wasting my time... I AM SPENDING TIME WITH MY BOYFRIEND!!

She even dared to say I should get some friends, making me sound like a freaking pathetic "forever alone", which I'm not since I have plenty of friends, and I usually go have dinner with them once or twice a week, I talk regularly to them, for Christ's sake, my best friend happens to be my boss and we have a blast at the office and she freaking knows that!!! but apparently she chooses to ignore all that when it comes to me spending time with my SO.

It's funny how she thinks this is not a healthy relationship since we're apart, but she also gave me a hard time when I was still with my ex (CDR) and we used to go out all the time...

I think people will always have something to say and they'll never be satisfied, but you know what?? the hell with them!! if you're happy and your SO is happy that's more than enough!

[11MikesGirl21]

To me that's all well and good when you can see your SO every day. I was much more independent with my time when my SO and I were CD. When I can come home after being with friends and crawl into bed next to him, spending hours away from him at a time is nothing. We also shared a lot of the same friends, they were OUR friends. So hanging out with them without the other made no sense. But when the entire group declared boys night/girls night, you bet your ass we followed the rules.

But when he's not there to come back to my time revolves around when I can talk to him and when I can't. I love hanging out with my friends here at school. I talk to them about stuff that's bothering me. But if I get a chance to talk to my SO I'm going to take it, I'm sorry but that's the truth. And my friends know and thankfully since most of them are all in some form of LDR too get it. And now when I do get my CD time with him I stock up on it, when we're finally together and CD for once and for all I can see the need to be around him cooling off, but right now with the rollercoaster a LDR is, I just don't see that happening.

It's not unhealthy to rather talk something out with your SO than with friends. I actually prefer talking to him about most things that bother me because that's just how I am with him and because I don't want other people knowing that much about the intimate details of my thoughts. I honestly don't see the point in having a relationship with someone if you can't tell them everything. I'll complain on forums or to my friends about stuff, but I will at some point either before, during, or after, I will also tell my SO. That's just how we are.

[Dziubka]

Ok, I don't really know you or your SO but I think I see where you and your SO's family and friends are coming from and I think they might have a point.
But first things first:
Why do we put so much on a healthy relationship? Yeah, well, why do we put so much importance on healthy food or a healthy lifestyle? Why should I put effort into cooking fresh vegetables when I can just get a tv dinner and crisps and be fine? That's so much more convenient, right and I'm sure there are a lot of people who in addition to the convenience prefer the taste of tv dinner and crisps over cooked broccoli (or whatever).
But we all know that living off frozen convenience food isn't good for you and you'll be healthier and feel better in the long run, if you make the effort and eat healthily.
I think the same goes for relationships. I have my boyfriend and it would be so easy and convenient to say that I don't need anyone apart from him and that he can be my sole company and friend for the rest of my life. It's a lot easier and more convenient to stay at home with him and not go out or do anything on my own. But in the long run, it's better for our relationship if we each do our own things as well. If we did everything together, we'd have nothing exciting to tell each other.
Imho it's very important to have your own activities (and most activities come with a group of friends) and be self sufficient. You can't rely on your partner to be your sole source of entertainment and social contact.
My boyfriend and I are very similar, we do a lot of things together and I really dislike doing anything without him, but for the sake of our relationship and excitement, we both have our own things that we do without the other.

Regarding the ldr and glued to the computer issue:
One of my boyfriend's closest friends was in an international LDR as well (they've closed the distance like 6 months ago). Before he met his girlfriend he used to go out all the time and always be the first to accept invitations and all. After he got together with the girl, he stopped going out almost completely. Apparently she was jealous and didn't want him to go out, because he could meet other girls - so he stayed at home and talked to her on the phone/skype. He might have preferred that over going out, which is understandable, but it's also understandable that his friends weren't so happy about that. Personally, I also think that it's a poor choice. And it has nothing to do with him sitting in front of a computer, I would consider it a poor choice if he was writing letters, reading, exercising or just sitting and staring at the wall. Different people have different needs, but I doubt there are a lot of people who have no need for social interaction other than video chatting. Being in an LDR is fine, wanting to spend time with your SO is fine, but if it causes you to not leave the house anymore or neglect your friends, because you need to communicate with your SO, then... that's where it starts being... well... unhealthy.

[Jezah]

The difference between a healthy lifestyle and healthy diet is all those are backed up by scientific proof that no matter who you are, they are better for you than junk. Where is the scientific proof that every person needs to have a specific relationship in order to be healthy?

Well HBB does go out, however I don't....but I didn't before him either. I am a bit of a loner, I have some friends but I prefer staying in and watching movies and cuddling my cats to going out. That has nothing to do with my relationship but more who I am. HBB always used to see his friends about as much as he does now, only difference is now when he goes over he will spend hours with them and then sneak away to call me for a while. As far as his parents, before me he just spent his free time on the computer playing computer games, or on the xbox. Our lives barely changed since we met each other on the surface, we spend about the same amount of time doing things, its just now we are happier and have the other. People just love to judge it

[CynicalQuixotic]

Okay, let's call a spade a spade: you're looking for people to validate your relationship. You wouldn't've posted this if you weren't. What it comes down to is this: a truly healthy relationship is one where both people feel respected and their needs are met. You've posted about how you and your SO have screaming matches, "toxic vicious lows", and you've frankly admitted that you get a high from fighting and making up. That doesn't sound like anyone is being respected, and this kind of roller coaster relationship isn't sustainable in the long run--one of you will eventually burn out. You're rationalizing, and it's tiresome.

[Haley53]

I do somewhat agree with CQ. I'm not going to bring past threads into this one, but it's possible that the issue of people seeing co-dependence stems from the "toxic lows" as you've described them.

you and your SO have screaming matches, "toxic vicious lows", and you've frankly admitted that you get a high from fighting and making up

Generally, people are going to be more likely to see the "need" for and attraction to one another as being co-dependent in a situation where the dynamic, at the heart, seems to be built around, and perpetuated by, conflict, and that's viewed as unhealthy primarily because it generally is psychologically damaging. But my opinions on that are shared on your other thread.

My opinions on this thread are similar to what others have been saying.

I have never heard of the type of dynamic you describe. You admitted to being extreme with your examples, but I suppose my opinion is that it's important to maintain a sense of self-sufficiency in any relationship you become involved in, whether it's a partnership or a friendship. For example, leaning on your partner because you're upset? Because something happened, or because you're going through a crisis? Normal, and in my opinion, healthy. Your partner should be someone you're able to turn to and be honest with, someone who should be able to provide you with comfort and support. However, say your partner becomes the only one who can provide you with solace, not because they know you to the point they can provide the most comfort, but because they're the only ones who can comfort you or calm you down. I would say that this is what borders on unhealthy. If you have other friends or if you prefer to read and snuggle with the kitties (I do too) because that's what you like to do for you, that's healthy and normal. If you sacrifice friendships and cut ties with people because your SO said to do so or because your SO demanded more and more of your time, or if you stop doing the things you love because you are constantly absorbed in your SO, that's when things begin to get a little bit unhealthy. Self-sufficiency is promoted and touted as being a quality in partners in healthy relationships because the opposite is generally, well, co-dependency. When your partner becomes your only source for comfort, entertainment, happiness, etc., that's when you start running into problems, because as big a part of life as love is, it's not everything. :P I have always believed you need to have an independent life in order to build a happier life together, but that independence doesn't mean you never involve your SO or never make decisions to stay home with your SO as opposed to going out. And I would say that self-suffiency is lacking anywhere where someone only had one source of [insert trait, quality, or characteristic here].

In regards to the issue of spending "sooo" much time at the computer, I would agree with what eveningsky said, in regards to introversion and extraversion. While there are exceptions, a good portion of Western culture touts extraversion over introversion. It's what's ideal in our society. It's synonymous with being a go-getter. It's glorified in the media and even in help/advice columns. An introvert, eh? Want to meet people who like the same things you do, hm? Well let's give you advice that might work better for an extravert or, better yet, let's tell you how you, too, can become extraverted and accumulate a wide variety of friends, acquaintences, and contacts! America, especially, is all about extraversion and narcissim, about bigger is better and about being as loud as you can be. Being an extravert is seen as the "norm," and so people who don't fit that norm generally get either taken under someone's wing, with the idea that they need to be squashed into some box of what ideal introversion/extraversion levels are like, or they're discounted as unhealthy. There is very little understanding of introversion or even what it means to be an introvert in American society, and we catch hell for it. :P And I think it's easier for people to discount introverts as "loners" or "weirdos" and thus it becomes easier to pick on certain attributes, such as being at a computer regularly, even if being at that computer means making time for their partner.

My opinion, though, is that the best thing to do in these situations is ignore it. Easier said than done, I'm aware, but in the end, you cannot let petty comments made by people who don't get it (or even if they do, are not directly involved in your relationship) throw you off to the point you need to post on the internet seeking validation because someone pointed out an unhealthy dynamic. There is nothing wrong with being similar (to me, having things in common is not the opposite of being independent) or liking to spend time with one another, unless that time intercepts what you would normally do for you, because it is always, always important to take care of ourselves too. While I can't condone the frequent arguments between you and HBB and do find it unhealthy, I can say that what you're posting about here is perfectly normal. However, it seems like you're constantly writing threads asking for LFADers to validate your relationship and tell you it's okay or that it's healthy or that you're normal. My opinion is you need to learn not to rely on what others say and you need to learn that not everything people say matters. Some people will get it and some won't. That's life. You have to focus on your relationship and realise that outside opinions are a result of someone else's biases and perceptions and their indirect relations to your relationship. I understand being sick of hearing it, but then ask HBB to stop telling you about it; then you'll only hear it from your end. Still not ideal, but it's better than having him report everything people say, if you end up this upset. :/ You can always ask people to stop, but if they don't, well... You're going to have to find a way to deal with it that doesn't involve being thrown off and angry because someone else considers something negative about your relationship. We will always have people who think negatively about our relationships. That doesn't always mean their perception is accurate (though I'd encourage introspection and thinking about why it matters so much what people say is unhealthy and why you're constantly needing people to tell you the opposite).

As far as magazines etc., I would take them with a grain of salt. Pop psychology is unfortunately shoved down our throats, and hardly any of it is actually accurate. Even the articles that start out with or include "studies show" often have some ridiculous twist and some poorly conducted correlational study that could hardly be classified as research. Best not to let media opinions or influences guide you or even rile you up. :P

[Zephii]

I wish I could have replied to this thread when I first read it, because I had so much to say that I now can't remember.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is saying that healthy relationships are all the same - just that there are some key things that aren't entirely healthy are common red flags in the majority of relationships.

With LDRs a huge part of them is unhealthy - the inside on the computer all the time part. Now, when you're inside on the computer all the time just because you can be, we call that an unhealthy lifestyle. So really, its slightly different words for the same shit. And it's also ok to be unhealthy some of the time. The huge amount of chocolate and caramel icecream I've been putting into my face this week, for example, is not at all healthy. But I'm going to do it again as soon as I get home, and to hell with anyone who says I shouldn't! I do realise however that if this two huge helpings of frozen fat a day thing were to continue, a well-meaning friend would step in and tell me no. It's about moderation - in all things, including our relationships.

I believe, that when our friends and family critisize our relationships we should take some of their advice on board. People outside our relationships can see things that we can't - because we're too close to the tree to see the forest. If a lot of people are saying the same thing to you, chances are there's truth in it.

[Manoek]

I think people will always have something to say and they'll never be satisfied, but you know what?? the hell with them!! if you're happy and your SO is happy that's more than enough!

This ^_^