He rationalizes EVERYTHING

[Jezah]

He also has no job and no school to "vacation" from....so its not like he was exhausted from all his work. More he had time away from his dad I guess

[Sharon Q]

As I said hon, If he lives with his dad. Than no matter how shitty the rules are he has to follow them. It sucks but its part of life, Once he moves out he can do as he pleases. Its not about having a back bone or standing up for ones self, its about making living with his dad comfortable.

As for the vacation it may not have only been for time away from his dad, but for time with his friends as well.
If you were trying to hang out with people you hardly ever got to see, don't you think a phone call might slip your mind if you were out having fun?

[Jezah]

He sees them each weekend when he goes over on Friday night and stays until Sunday, also on Thursday when they have their football league. Yet he still thinks he has "no social life".

[Sharon Q]

Why does it bother you so badly that he spends time with them? Some people don't have the same communication level, meaning he may not feel the need to talk with you as much as you feel the need to talk to him, Not only that but guys need guy time, Ask yourself would you still be bothered by it if the two of you saw one another every day?

Its not the same, I know, distance sucks, But you can't keep getting upset with him because he has guy time. How often do you hang out with your friends?

[Jezah]

I don't have friends. I am very solitary, I have a few internet friends but IRL, just my family. I never needed friends, so HBB's constant overbearing need to be with his is something I do not understand. I wish he was more independent

[Dziubka]

I don't have friends. I am very solitary, I have a few internet friends but IRL, just my family. I never needed friends, so HBB's constant overbearing need to be with his is something I do not understand. I wish he was more independent

Serious question:
Has it ever come to your mind that different people have different needs and he might just need more socialising?

You don't have to understand. I don't understand a lot of things that my boyfriend does. The key word here is acceptance.

[charly]

Jezah, I know what it's like to not have much, or any friends. Not because I'm bullied, just because I like being on my own. My boyfriend on the other hand has tons of friends, and often enough I find myself annoyed by the fact that I'm waiting for him, when he runs late because of his friends... But then I think by myself, why not just be happy with the fact that he is happy? And has his own life, and fun stuff to do? That way we keep having new subjects to talk about...

What I want to say with this: talk with him about it, but you can never expect him to change his social life completely. In LDR there will always be times where schedules (self chosen or not) don't allow much contact. Accept it, or find someone that has all the time of the world for you...

[tanaquil]

Okay, here's what I'm getting from reading this thread and a couple of your past ones: You're expecting him to act exactly like you.

While I don't think your SO is the perfect guy -- far from it! -- I think you should give him a break. You constantly accuse him of things and act like everything he does is some sort of huge action to spite you. The family nights? Not cool, but he has to do them. You have to realise that family, no matter how messed up or odd, should come before almost anything else. That means your relationship isn't a number one priority sometimes. It's painful to get your head around; everyone wants to be the most important thing in their love's life. I found it really hard, initially, to accept that I'm not as important as my boyfriend's research or work :P Kinda silly and I was kinda hissy, but I realised that I found a few things (my research and work included) more important than him.

You don't have friends; that's perfectly fine. Yet you're expecting him to be more like you. As the above users said, different people have different ways of living and you should learn to ACCEPT that instead of getting constantly frustrated by it. Isn't that what a relationship is all about? Being in love with someone and accepting them for who they are? Both of you being accommodating and loving? It seems as if you want your boyfriend to turn into a clone of yourself.

Also, you seem extremely critical of him. Angrily not understanding why he needs a vacation when he has no job/etc/etc? Being angry at him for his social life (which seems quite normal to me)?

HBB essentially has become unreliable and untrustworthy.

This also bothered me somewhat. You act as if you have complete authority to judge him.

All this being said, I understand how you feel, as my SO had a horrible university semester and couldn't get anything done. He flaked, he was depressed constantly, we fought all the time and everything. This was during our CDR, too. I became hissy and wanted him to spend hours with me until I realised that it wasn't fair of me to ask these things. I see a therapist, too, and have a buttload of mental health issues that get in the way of my reasoning with things and seeing situations clearly. It's very stressful, I know, and it's hard to get through almost anything when things are difficult around you. I'm just putting this out there so you'll understand I'm not accusing you or looking down upon you, necessarily, and that I came from a somewhat similar, though not as extreme, case.

Your boyfriend is REALLY REALLY REALLY not helping the situation and I definitely think he can improve a lot. But you have to remember a relationship takes two people. It takes two people to fight, too. One of you to start the fire, and the other one to keep it burning.

Sorry if this sounded a bit mean. I don't mean it to be at all.

[Katelyn313]

Okay, here's what I'm getting from reading this thread and a couple of your past ones: You're expecting him to act exactly like you.

While I don't think your SO is the perfect guy -- far from it! -- I think you should give him a break. You constantly accuse him of things and act like everything he does is some sort of huge action to spite you. The family nights? Not cool, but he has to do them. You have to realise that family, no matter how messed up or odd, should come before almost anything else. That means your relationship isn't a number one priority sometimes. It's painful to get your head around; everyone wants to be the most important thing in their love's life. I found it really hard, initially, to accept that I'm not as important as my boyfriend's research or work :P Kinda silly and I was kinda hissy, but I realised that I found a few things (my research and work included) more important than him.

You don't have friends; that's perfectly fine. Yet you're expecting him to be more like you. As the above users said, different people have different ways of living and you should learn to ACCEPT that instead of getting constantly frustrated by it. Isn't that what a relationship is all about? Being in love with someone and accepting them for who they are? Both of you being accommodating and loving? It seems as if you want your boyfriend to turn into a clone of yourself.

Also, you seem extremely critical of him. Angrily not understanding why he needs a vacation when he has no job/etc/etc? Being angry at him for his social life (which seems quite normal to me)?



This also bothered me somewhat. You act as if you have complete authority to judge him.

All this being said, I understand how you feel, as my SO had a horrible university semester and couldn't get anything done. He flaked, he was depressed constantly, we fought all the time and everything. This was during our CDR, too. I became hissy and wanted him to spend hours with me until I realised that it wasn't fair of me to ask these things. I see a therapist, too, and have a buttload of mental health issues that get in the way of my reasoning with things and seeing situations clearly. It's very stressful, I know, and it's hard to get through almost anything when things are difficult around you. I'm just putting this out there so you'll understand I'm not accusing you or looking down upon you, necessarily, and that I came from a somewhat similar, though not as extreme, case.

Your boyfriend is REALLY REALLY REALLY not helping the situation and I definitely think he can improve a lot. But you have to remember a relationship takes two people. It takes two people to fight, too. One of you to start the fire, and the other one to keep it burning.

Sorry if this sounded a bit mean. I don't mean it to be at all.

This. Well put.

I wanted to add my thoughts as well... In my previous relationship, I thought I could change my partner. He was jealous, I thought showing him I was only his would help. It didn't. He wasn't responsible with his money; I thought coaching him through a budget would help. It didn't. He was willing to let his mother make his decisions; I thought he would start to consult me with things. He didn't. I eventually had to realize that nothing I could do, would make him into the person I thought he could be. 7 years and a ton of heartache and messiness later, I realized he was who he was and that if I could not ACCEPT (like other posters said) that, I needed to end it. It was the hardest decision I've had to make in life thus far, but I am feeling much better now. I had lost myself in him, only worrying about his needs and feelings and decisions. I had to rediscover myself, out from under his shadow and it's been amazing.

I've also now found a partner whom I love almost everything about. And for the parts I don't love, I accept. (And don't worry, Dylan... they're few ) I feel badly that you keep bashing your head into a wall trying to get your SO to change the same things over and over (as I have also followed your posts). Try to take a step back and take a look at things and see if the good outweighs the bad.


Good luck

[Romeo s Juliet]

I don't have friends. I am very solitary, I have a few internet friends but IRL, just my family. I never needed friends, so HBB's constant overbearing need to be with his is something I do not understand. I wish he was more independent

DO YOU YOURSELF SEE THE IRONY of this? You wish he was more independent? do you even know whats being independent is? you ur self are being dependent on him far more than anything else.

I am being really blunt here, it may come across as negativity to you. no guy would want to handle the constant stress a person like you put on him. you just cant let himself be for 4 days on his own. you are being a nagging person. GET HELP please.
You should find yourself. get help PLEASE. its for your own good, give HBB his life, and try to make a life for yourself.

[Jayburr]

Okay, here's what I'm getting from reading this thread and a couple of your past ones: You're expecting him to act exactly like you.

While I don't think your SO is the perfect guy -- far from it! -- I think you should give him a break. You constantly accuse him of things and act like everything he does is some sort of huge action to spite you. The family nights? Not cool, but he has to do them. You have to realise that family, no matter how messed up or odd, should come before almost anything else. That means your relationship isn't a number one priority sometimes. It's painful to get your head around; everyone wants to be the most important thing in their love's life. I found it really hard, initially, to accept that I'm not as important as my boyfriend's research or work :P Kinda silly and I was kinda hissy, but I realised that I found a few things (my research and work included) more important than him.

You don't have friends; that's perfectly fine. Yet you're expecting him to be more like you. As the above users said, different people have different ways of living and you should learn to ACCEPT that instead of getting constantly frustrated by it. Isn't that what a relationship is all about? Being in love with someone and accepting them for who they are? Both of you being accommodating and loving? It seems as if you want your boyfriend to turn into a clone of yourself.

Also, you seem extremely critical of him. Angrily not understanding why he needs a vacation when he has no job/etc/etc? Being angry at him for his social life (which seems quite normal to me)?



This also bothered me somewhat. You act as if you have complete authority to judge him.

All this being said, I understand how you feel, as my SO had a horrible university semester and couldn't get anything done. He flaked, he was depressed constantly, we fought all the time and everything. This was during our CDR, too. I became hissy and wanted him to spend hours with me until I realised that it wasn't fair of me to ask these things. I see a therapist, too, and have a buttload of mental health issues that get in the way of my reasoning with things and seeing situations clearly. It's very stressful, I know, and it's hard to get through almost anything when things are difficult around you. I'm just putting this out there so you'll understand I'm not accusing you or looking down upon you, necessarily, and that I came from a somewhat similar, though not as extreme, case.

Your boyfriend is REALLY REALLY REALLY not helping the situation and I definitely think he can improve a lot. But you have to remember a relationship takes two people. It takes two people to fight, too. One of you to start the fire, and the other one to keep it burning.

Sorry if this sounded a bit mean. I don't mean it to be at all.

Absolutely agree.

I just wanted to add my two cents as well from a guy's perspective in dealing with my ex in the past, who constantly nagged me for not talking with her enough, or spending enough time with her...

My ex and I had opposite work schedules. She worked from the evening until late at night, and I worked from the morning until the the evening. So, basically, when I was at work, she was at home, and vice versa. This is a bad combination, because while I'm busy at work, she is at home, doing nothing, bored and alone with her thoughts. The only way for her to combat her boredom was to text and call me. She would constantly text me throughout the day. Texts were somewhat manageable to me...I have a pretty laid back job so, texting was okay, but when I'm busy, I'm busy...I can't always reply right away, and this was something she wasn't okay with. If I didn't reply right away with a minute or so, she would accuse me of ignoring her. Also, the phone calls... She would call me about the dumbest crap some times...wanting to tell me about how she heard some song on the radio or couldn't find a parking spot at the store, etc etc... And then when I'd tell her I had to go she'd get pissy with me about it, again, accusing me of stupid things like how I must not want to talk to her.

To my ex, she wanted to be FIRST in my life. She wanted to be #1, before work and before anyone else. I'd tell her, 'I'm at work, I can't spend all day on the phone with you' and she'd say she understands but then the very next day she'd be nagging me about how I don't respond to her fast enough or how I don't answer the phone when she calls. One day she did tell me that, if I can't talk, she'd prefer it if I just answered and said something quick like "Hey babe I can't talk right now, can I call you back?" that she'd be happy with that because it wouldn't make her feel like she was being ignored. So, I tried that, and her immediate response is a very annoyed "Fine." I'd then say "Love you, talk to you in a bit okay?" Her response, "K." For whatever reason, she just couldn't understand or ACCEPT that she cannot be number 1 and the world does not revolve around her. Her ideal boyfriend would have been someone that doesn't work and is just at her beck and call all day long. It's crazy to think of some of the things I did for her, the amount of effort and time and emotion I invested into that relationship, and she was still never satisfied with anything. Nothing I did was ever enough.

Anyway, my main point I wanted to get to in explaining my experience, was that my ex would accuse me of never admitting I was wrong, and always having an explanation for my actions. If I didn't answer her phone call while I work, telling her "Well, I'm at WORK (duh) and can't always answer" very quickly became an excuse that didn't work for her. So, I'd have to tell her specific things like "I was talking with my boss when you called," or "I was on the other line," "I was helping someone," etc...basically, I ALWAYS had a reason to not answer her call.

Even when I wasn't working, like when she'd call me from her work, or on the weekend or something, I usually picked up all the time, but some times I would be doing something, and yes, again, I would always have a reason for why I didn't pick up. It may seem hard to believe, but they were all legitimate reasons, AND, most of the time when I didn't pick up, I'd be calling her back within the minute (and still get bitched out about not picking up the first time).

My inner thoughts to my ex on our specific issue were that she needs to find a hobby to keep her busy throughout the day (or a second job) and not sit around whining about how I don't reply often enough when I'm busy working. I would have loved to make her #1 in my life, but, sorry, if I don't do my job, I don't make money, and if I don't make money, we wouldn't have much of a life.

That's sort of my advice to you...along with what everyone else has said... - accept this situation between you two, or don't. Accept, that maybe there is an explanation for all of his actions and that there are legitimate reasons why he can or can't do something with you. Personally, if I were in this situation, I would rather hear my SO rationalize everything for me, and make me understand HER situation, than just give in by taking responsibility and telling me what I want to hear.

[Jezah]

DO YOU YOURSELF SEE THE IRONY of this? You wish he was more independent? do you even know whats being independent is? you ur self are being dependent on him far more than anything else.

I am being really blunt here, it may come across as negativity to you. no guy would want to handle the constant stress a person like you put on him. you just cant let himself be for 4 days on his own. you are being a nagging person. GET HELP please.
You should find yourself. get help PLEASE. its for your own good, give HBB his life, and try to make a life for yourself.

Wow, can you stop being so blunt and frankly rude? I have a therapist, and I see her weekly. Just because I do not need or choose to have friends does not make me in need of help, and doesn't mean HBB is my world. My world is my family, my cats and until I lost it...my job. He is a big part of my world, but anyone with a boyfriend for a over a year should see their boyfriend as that!

I swear this place is giving me a complex. My own therapist sees my relationship with HBB and she never once says I am being overbearing or asking too much. Maybe the whole date night thing seems it since nobody here seems to do that with their SO, but you have to remember I was not the only one who started or wanted date night. HBB was the one who first suggested it. Just because you cannot imagine spending 24 hours with your SO doesn't mean that just because me and HBB do makes me some needy harpy bitch. We have been doing this for over a year, no issues. In fact this time was not so much losing 2 hours as it was why. I have an issue with his father and his tyrannical ways. I have an issue also that HBB didn't even try and talk to his dad to reschedule the movie night even though he said he would. Its more keeping his word that is the problem.

I am severely depressed right now, like barely can get out of bed depressed due to losing my job, being taken off anti-depressants in preparation for ECT and a staph infection that is causing me pain. So yea, I can see how maybe I am needing HBB a bit more and perhaps it is why I was not as ok with his absence while he was off with his friends. However, I really didn't think asking for one hour a day while away, being with me in ER and keeping his word suddenly made me the bad guy. Am I really so psychotic? This doesn't seem too above and beyond. I didn't even bug him with txts while he was away, just wanted a one hour call to help brighten my otherwise quite depressing day. Even he in hindsight agrees it wasn't much to ask. I just don't get why everyone here thinks it was?

I love him, and I do not mean to seem like I am overly critical of him. I do think however that I am very wary still with him, as since talking it out we both agree he never did anything to fix or make up the hurt about cancelling his trip and devastating me. So I feel like that hurt has yet to be healed, so when he does something to hurt or disappoint me again it is compounded. So I have held onto that, and not really sure how to let it go without some help from him.

[Haley53]

I don't agree with everyone saying you're being too overdemanding. I agree with you. HBB is in the wrong. He's not putting in effort and he's being unreliable. Sure, I do feel there are some things you could improve upon. You have had issues with him spending time with his friends in the past. That said, there also always seems to be something huge going on at the time HBB decides to drop you and go chill with the home boys for a few, and this is also something to consider; some people cannot handle life, and run screaming from it (hence why the term "fair-weather friends" exists), and you have a boyfriend who does not seem to be able to handle life as life comes, but who prefers to roll over and take it or directly run, tail tucked, from it.

The thing is, you're waiting for someone to change who isn't going to. *shrug* Like I believe Malaga said, you've worked on your relationship but neither one of you have worked on your fundamental issues. They exist behind everything that you post, which is why I feel most people have an issue. The thing is your mother gave you impractical advice. Say someone loves a man who hits them, but he takes them for a romantic night out and utters sweet words after every time he does. The victim is therefore getting something out of the relationship, but that doesn't mean the relationship is good for them. We all can get something out of any relationship, but it doesn't boil down to what we can get out of it, how happy we are when things are good, or even how much we love our partner. It boils down to whether or not it's working, and while everyone likes to think their love is special and one of a kind, that's why people have an issue, because yours isn't working. Putting a bandaid over temporary problems until the same thing happens in a different context isn't fixing it or making it work.

The thing is it's not necessarily you, Jezah. I don't agree that it's 100% you and that you're the one doing these things to HBB. But I think the place you're going wrong is that you're being hopeful enough to believe HBB will change. These threads about HBB's stubbornness, refusal to change and cooperate, etc. have been going on for almost a year now. Yes, you both may learn from your mistakes, but that doesn't mean HBB takes any more responsibility for them than he did last year. That doesn't mean HBB puts in any more effort to change than he did before. And frankly, as someone else said, you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

We can't help you change HBB. Does he need to? Yes. But maybe he doesn't want to. You talk about all the reasons it's effecting your relationship and how HBB is, say, miserable in this situation with his father, but have you ever thought that maybe he's happy to sit in his misery? Some people are. They're not happy. They're not happy being depressed. They're not happy struggling with, in this case, a tyrannical father, no job/ambition, etc., but they play that role because it means they don't have to work. There are some people who simply do not want to put any effort into improving their lives, either because they're happy being the victim or simply because they feel they can't. When I read your threads, this is how I see HBB and how I saw you, up until you approached therapy, which could potentially become something greatly beneficial for you, and proved me wrong. I believe HBB could also benefit from therapy, but not if he's going to be so stubborn he can't look at where he could improve without rose-tinted glasses.

My point is, you're asking us how to change someone to make your relationship work, and I think you need to instead look at the fact your relationship isn't working. I don't care that you're happy and in love except when something like this happens, and my issue isn't with the frequency of something happening. It's with the fact that the same things happen over and over and over again and you have yet to accept that he might simply be lazy and stubborn towards change and... well, doesn't really care. These are traits of HBB that it's very possible you'll be living with forever. You can change yourself all you want, but take it from someone who's tried, it does not change the person you're with. HBB could very well be a lazy (at least in terms of working on his shortcomings etc.), stubborn, unreliable person who can't handle life and who runs away screaming from the possibility of change and whenever you go through something remotely taxing. Whether or not you want to accept that is up to you, but there's nothing we can do to change him for you.

[Caitlin2009]

Wow, can you stop being so blunt and frankly rude? I have a therapist, and I see her weekly. Just because I do not need or choose to have friends does not make me in need of help, and doesn't mean HBB is my world. My world is my family, my cats and until I lost it...my job. He is a big part of my world, but anyone with a boyfriend for a over a year should see their boyfriend as that!

I swear this place is giving me a complex. My own therapist sees my relationship with HBB and she never once says I am being overbearing or asking too much. Maybe the whole date night thing seems it since nobody here seems to do that with their SO, but you have to remember I was not the only one who started or wanted date night. HBB was the one who first suggested it. Just because you cannot imagine spending 24 hours with your SO doesn't mean that just because me and HBB do makes me some needy harpy bitch. We have been doing this for over a year, no issues. In fact this time was not so much losing 2 hours as it was why. I have an issue with his father and his tyrannical ways. I have an issue also that HBB didn't even try and talk to his dad to reschedule the movie night even though he said he would. Its more keeping his word that is the problem.

I am severely depressed right now, like barely can get out of bed depressed due to losing my job, being taken off anti-depressants in preparation for ECT and a staph infection that is causing me pain. So yea, I can see how maybe I am needing HBB a bit more and perhaps it is why I was not as ok with his absence while he was off with his friends. However, I really didn't think asking for one hour a day while away, being with me in ER and keeping his word suddenly made me the bad guy. Am I really so psychotic? This doesn't seem too above and beyond. I didn't even bug him with txts while he was away, just wanted a one hour call to help brighten my otherwise quite depressing day. Even he in hindsight agrees it wasn't much to ask. I just don't get why everyone here thinks it was?

I love him, and I do not mean to seem like I am overly critical of him. I do think however that I am very wary still with him, as since talking it out we both agree he never did anything to fix or make up the hurt about cancelling his trip and devastating me. So I feel like that hurt has yet to be healed, so when he does something to hurt or disappoint me again it is compounded. So I have held onto that, and not really sure how to let it go without some help from him.

right my turn to be blunt. Frankly i think your being highly controlling, bossy, over demanding, ect girlfriend. So he canceled a trip, big deal it happens life happens. get over it. I doubt he did it to spite you, he probably had something come up. And now your sitting here trying to guilt trip us with all the shit your dealing with, no. I dont put up with that and frankly i think he's starting to see that himself! So if you dont wanna lose him i highly suggest you get a grip, get a life, go make some friends force yourself if you have to, quit being bossy and controlling, and grow up!!!!

[Haley53]

right my turn to be blunt. Frankly i think your being highly controlling, bossy, over demanding, ect girlfriend. So he canceled a trip, big deal it happens life happens. get over it. I doubt he did it to spite you, he probably had something come up. And now your sitting here trying to guilt trip us with all the shit your dealing with, no. I dont put up with that and frankly i think he's starting to see that himself! So if you dont wanna lose him i highly suggest you get a grip, get a life, go make some friends force yourself if you have to, quit being bossy and controlling, and grow up!!!!

If I recall correctly, he cancelled because his father determined an entire summer was too long and made an issue about it meaning he wouldn't be prepared to apply for the army next year (he failed his test and has to wait a year to take it again, I think). While I'm no advocate for sweeping someone's issues and need for improvements under the rug, I also don't think Jezah's irrationally hurt by a man in his mid-20s cancelling his trip because daddy said it'd screw up his army plans. In my opinion, Jezah's grip on the reigns has gotten tighter in response to HBB's lazy, stubborn approach to their relationship in which he's unreliable and constantly skips out on her when something remotely overwhelming happens. He listens to his father, has given his father free reign of his life, and has made no move to get out of the situation in several months despite his father's overbearing rules. He lacks a work ethic and sense of responsibility and does nothing to work on the relationship. Their fundamental problems are always the same and it takes two. Jezah is not the one who deserves a reaming here, in my opinion, as she's certainly not the only one in the wrong. Her behaviour is a response to HBB's complete lack thereof, not the other way around (imo).