Words of courage needed!

[Tanja]

Not sure where to start...

First the happy's:

Andy got a first class honours degree in maths, which I'm super excited and happy about because things were messed up for him in many ways at one point and everyone, his friends, lecturers (and me) thought he wouldn't even pass and now he got the best possible outcome as a result of LOTS of hard work and determination.

I'm so proud of him and couldn't be happier - I love you hun ♥

He's coming here in 2 weeks to spend a month with me. I can't wait.

The thing is, we've been very distant lately, I've been busy working, he's been busy studying and making money and we haven't really talked about our future that much. And this is it pretty much, he's finished Uni and now it's time to start making plans on how to get him in here for good.

Needless to say we're both quite scared because of the changes ahead of us.

1)We've found out a few days ago that if he moves here before turning 30 and gets citizenship he could be ordered to join the army service for 6 months or do a civil service which would last 13 months... that would pretty much fuck up getting a job in here.

2)We've found out he can't get citizenship before he speaks the language - surprisingly Finnish is the most difficult European language to learn so that would take months, maybe years to learn.

3)We've found out he can't get an insurance, any kind of financial aid or a social security number until he is a Finnish citizen.

4)If he gets into a Uni in here to do a master's degree he will not get permanent residency and will be treated as a temporary resident ► no social security, insurance or financial aid.

It feels like there's so much obstacles and no matter which way we try to go something always comes up. Those 4 things pretty much link together and it's like a circle we can't get out of.

It's really quite depressing and I'm starting to have serious doubts whether we can make this work or not. I feel terribly guilty that he's the one having to go through all these life changing things while I just sit here and wait for him to come to me.

I wish I could do more, be more. I'm scared I'm not enough and not worth all this trouble. I'm scared there's gonna be so much more waiting ahead of us when I was prepared to have him here first this summer, then next year but now God knows when it will happen.

I'm scared that almost 3 years of waiting turns out to have been for nothing.

[Caity]

Firstly congrats to Andy for his degree =D

Now he's finished his degree he should be less distant and yous could talk more =)
At number 1) 6 months isn't very long compared to the rest of your lives together
2) Yes learning a language is hard, but with your help and being surrounded by other Finnish speakers when he comes to visit, he could pick it up quicker. The best way to learn a language is immersion in it really.
4) If he gets into uni he'd atleast have temporary residence till he could get full residence, and it would give him a few years to learn the language too.

It may take some more hard work but if you know it's worth it then go for it =) You've just got to keep strong and determined and not let things get you down.

[folclor]

*hugs* I don't know the solution to that problem, but if he goes to Uni for masters there wouldn't he be able to work on his Finnish and then come back as a citizen once he has his degree?

[Tanja]

Thanks Caity

About the military thing- Andy won't do it, it's very very physical and very hard on foreigners as all the commanders will speak only Finnish. Non-finnish-speakers are usually sent across Finland to be all in one place and they aren't allowed near weapons etc because they can't read the warning signs. I think it's quite unfair to force immigrants to do national service when their backgrounds and cultures are completely different. I don't know if there's a way around it other than that he'll move here when he's 30 which is obviously out of the question really lol.

It's just hard to stay positive when there's always something negative happening as it constantly seems to be with my life. Guess I was just born unlucky

[Bluestars]

Rosetta Stones are supposed to work really well....maybe you guys could save up for a Finnish version for him >.< I understand his pain though because I hated Spanish class and only took the most basic level (plus Spanish is supposed to be the easiest language to learn!) But what are the chances that he would get sent to the army? Is it 100% or around 50%? That would be something to consider....

But I wish you two the best in working through this!

[Zephii]

I don't know about Finland, but in Canada and Australia you have to live in the country five years to get citizenship, so if Finland is anything similar that could buy you some time. I don't know how far away 30 is for him though.

The thing that has me confused is you said if he becomes a citizen he may have to go into the military but to become a citizen you must be fluent in Finnish, so why are there people in the military that don't speak Finnish or can't read it well enough not to understand warning lables?

I guess the easiest path to take would be start teaching him Finnish. If you're both working hard at it, he'll catch on. People can learn amazingly quick if they have to. Then let him come over as a student with temporary residancy. The government wont give him money, but hell, plenty of people work and study, there's no reason once he has a grasp on the language that he couldn't pick up a job to help you out. And this way they can't send him off to the military.
Have you looked into the civil service thing? Maybe it isn't full time? I assume the government isn't stupid enough to make people do something that would prevent them earning a livelyhood.

But, whatever happens, no matter how bad it seems, don't give up. There is always a way. You's have come far, you can get through this together!

[Rach321]

Congratulations Andy!!!!


Geesh... those are tough things to think about, but I hope they won't get you down too much.

Is it necessary that he becomes a citizen immediately? I understand that he won't have very many rights as a non-citizen, but it might not be as bad as it seems. There must be procedures in place for individuals to study-abroad or to work on contract without requiring citizenship??? There may be discounts on insurance for international students, and he may be able to work through the university to pay his living expenses if he decides to pursue a degree. And he may be able to find a job that would be willing to sponsor him for a few years.

I really have no idea how immigration works in Finland, so I'm really only speaking from what I know here in the U.S. Even if a couple is married, it is not required that the spouse becomes a citizen (the process usually takes several years to complete anyway). But if marriage means citizenship for him, perhaps you'll need to postpone that until he would no longer be called up for service?

As others have suggested, it sounds like the major thing to focus on right now is getting him fluent in Finnish!!! Try focusing on that and have faith that everything else will work itself out in time.

[Tanja]

Thank you all for your responses, I feel better about it all already. There's just so much things to sort out before we're settled down and financially secured...

It's all very confusing with the residency and citizenship and there's so many conditions in order to get either of them.

We always knew we'd have to start with him learning the language but he'd need to be here to do it, I can't teach him online, Finnish is SO hard for a foreigner

We're due in a long and a serious talk when he gets here, I hope we'll get some answers to our questions then. I wish I could fast forward the next 2-3 years and just live happily ever after!

Thanks again, it's so nice to know there's always one place to get help from

[Rach321]

I wish I could fast forward the next 2-3 years and just live happily ever after!

Me too Tanja, me too!!!!

Glad to hear you're feeling a little better. For me, I am also very uncertain about how my SO and I are actually going to end up in the same place due to the fact that we both need to find jobs/etc. I have days where I totally freak out about it, and other days that I just convince myself to worry about it later.

[Tanja]

Yeah Rach I have those days too, I suppose I just have to try and not let them get to me! Let's hope it'll all work out for both of us

[Moon]

Hi Tanja,

My SO is Finnish, so I'm aware of some of these issues you and Andy are having. People don't realize how completely, 100% different Finnish is than English, there is no Rosetta Stone for it, and you can't just pick it up But there ARE options, yay! Have Andy start here for some very basic basics....https://www.byki.com/ Then go here...https://www.livemocha.com/ Both are free and can help him at least start figuring out the base words, and how they twist to form meanings.

Also, both of you should check out this forum...https://www.finlandforum.org/ The regular posters are rude as hell sometimes though, so I just read and never post. Be aware that some of the regular Finnish posters do everything possible to discourage foreigners from moving to Finland! Otherwise it's a great site with a ton of info, especially regarding immigration and integration, and quite a few posters there are foreigners living in Finland. I just returned from Finland yesterday and I miss it so much already I can't imagine a more beautiful place in the Summer. I hope this helps, and good luck!

[Tanja]

Hi Tanja,

My SO is Finnish, so I'm aware of some of these issues you and Andy are having. People don't realize how completely, 100% different Finnish is than English, there is no Rosetta Stone for it, and you can't just pick it up But there ARE options, yay! Have Andy start here for some very basic basics....https://www.byki.com/ Then go here...https://www.livemocha.com/ Both are free and can help him at least start figuring out the base words, and how they twist to form meanings.

Also, both of you should check out this forum...https://www.finlandforum.org/ The regular posters are rude as hell sometimes though, so I just read and never post. Be aware that some of the regular Finnish posters do everything possible to discourage foreigners from moving to Finland! Otherwise it's a great site with a ton of info, especially regarding immigration and integration, and quite a few posters there are foreigners living in Finland. I just returned from Finland yesterday and I miss it so much already I can't imagine a more beautiful place in the Summer. I hope this helps, and good luck!

Thank you so much for the language links! We've looked up a few online studying sites but they weren't very helpful but the ones you posted look good! we are both frequent visitors on the finlandforum.org and yes I've noticed the way some of the regular members post, some of them are racist too and should be banned from the forum in my opinion! There's a lot of helpful info on there too though - we've gone through pretty much every single site/forum that's related to immigrating in Finland

Whereabouts in Finland does your SO live if I may ask? This is a really great place to live and it's very beautiful but the language barrier is quite challenging for foreigners
Even though pretty much everyone in here speaks English you can't really live here without knowing the basic phrases at least...

Thanks again and I hope you'll be back in Finland soon

[sam]

Yeah.. These things suck and I'm gonna have to go through all that too.

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do either : D


Hope you get it sorted!
Good luck

[Moon]

My guy is in Vantaa, and I wish I was still there! Even though I don't speak Finnish, it's a very comfortable place I should be back sometime in the Winter, I try going twice a year, and I really love it over there.

[Swederica]

Congratz to Andy!!

Ohh yeah Finland, our dear neighbours, are crazy about military service. I was joking with my friend that we Swedes should invade Finland and take back what was once ours. But he was very right when he said we would lose big time.

Anyway to the real point.
Andy lives in United Kingdom if i'm not completely wrong, or atleast i really do hope he does.
If that's true then you have the European Union rights to back you up. You have the right to freely move, study and work in any of the EU nations without visa.
Maybe that's something you can use?
Also is there any possibility for you to move to him until he's old enough to avoid military service?