So, Won't Be Going On That Working Holiday...

[Haley53]

It could be argued that this should have been a blog, so those who would rather not read, I'm warning you now.



I'm recently home from a visit with my SO, and I can say that it was most certainly an eye opener - and on several levels. Many of those levels benefitted our relationship, but with the evolution and growth, and all the good things that came with them, came yet another change of plans that I had to come to terms with: I will not be staying a year abroad. There are a number of factors for this change of heart, some drawn out of logical conclusion and some completely intuitive, but in the end, I am choosing to listen to that wiggly niggly gut feeling, and now, I feel, is not the time for it. While sure, a lot can change in a year, there's also the fact that planning a move abroad, even a temporary year-long one, needs to be done well in advance. There are also factors playing in to my decision that are based on the situation here at home, more than they are based on anything that could be changed.

I have been holding off on posting this because I've never really been sure of what I wanted to say, or even what my questions are, and if I'm being honest, I'm still not. There is a part of me that has become more content than I originally was to exist in the present, to stop trying to plan so much for the future out of fear and anxiety and to instead appreciate the love and the connection and the commitment that I share with my SO, because that is what exists now and it's beautiful, and while it might not all fall into place by way of some mystical force, the opportunities are going to be there when they're going to be there. They aren't now, and it's going to do no good forcing it. I have discussed my decision with my SO, and he's respecting (and I'd go so far as to say fine with) it. We have both come to the conclusion that I will have a couple long visits (if they're doable, which they should be) during my gap year. I'm not sure the working holiday was solidly actualised enough to lead to any great disappointment from this change of plans.

Leaving was heartbreaking, true to form, but I do feel we both came away with a steely resolve. The both of us mentioned that while it was definitely difficult, saying goodbye, and while we both cried and clung to each other for as long as we could possibly, there's something... different. There's something a little bit easier underlying everything that hurts. I'm not sure if it's because we, for definite, have a time when we're going to be seeing one another again, even if it is 6 months down the line, or if it really is this mutual feeling of confidence and commitment that came from the evolutions we, and our relationship, underwent while I was there. It may be because he's starting school, signed up for a once-a-week guitar class, making steps to get out of his depression and grief that's enveloped the both of us for so long. It may be because he's getting his life on track, which would ultimately mean helping to build a stronger foundation for any future relationship. And it may be because I have decided to take what happens as it will, and I know I'm going to be okay whatever that means, whether it means closing the distance and marrying my SO or it doesn't.

I guess my main concern is pointless and irrational, a blend of wondering what the consequences will be of not taking it and what happens now? Three years of distance, at least, though he'll be on his last year of his degree program during my first year of graduate studies, and it's possible that that will be extended depending on if he decides to pursue a higher degree. But I can't see an end in sight as far as being able to live together before marriage, which is something I have always believed in doing. Do couples, especially LD couples, still have successful marriages without having lived with one another? Does it make it harder to prove that you have a real relationship when going through the visa process? It's all senseless worrying, seeing as it's a number of years off, but I suppose I am feeling so freed by the fact I finally listened to what I wanted/needed over what I was trying to force (working holiday) that the worry over why I feel so calm and why nothing has imploded yet is starting to creep in. Anything could happen. We could break-up, we could get married and live happily ever after, he could come study in the U.S. and we'd get our chance to live together!

But I suppose what I'm looking for is some sort of... reassurance. I have banked on and talked about taking this working holiday for so long that it almost became something I had to do, something that was the right thing, and while both my SO and I have made peace with my decision and realise that it cannot be actualised, I suppose I'm wanting to hear that it's okay, maybe some insight from people who have been here, done that, or seen so many things change (oh lordy, I'm hearing Moon's voice about change and my age group ) that I haven't committed some irreconcilable crime by deciding that it's not necessarily that I couldn't go, but that now is not the right time.

I suppose I want some of that reassurance from someone other than my SO that things can still work, that if it meant living together before marriage, we'd find a way to do it regardless of this little detour. I don't do well with detours (ironic that I'm in a LDR ). Sometimes I need a slap on the wrist, a little reassurance, or even a simple hug before I realise how silly I'm actually being.

Now, to go take a bath and re-focus on the present, as much as I can help it.

[Moon]

Hah!! You've made my response so much shorter now

Of course it can work! When you get a bit older....OK, now I'm just being a d-bag But seriously, just because your path and goals may be different than what others follow, doesn't mean it can't be equally successful. If your instinct is telling you not to do the working visa at this time, then that's what you should do, and if you both agree, then there's no problem. A lot of couples don't live together before marriage, and they do just fine, and you have the advantage of several long visits to at least get an idea of how it may be when you do. I think it's a great idea for you both to get school out of the way before you decide anything anyway, and until his brother is of age. There is nothing wrong with a long LDR, as long as you're both committed and on the same page with it. Being young is good in this regard, if it was 10 or 15 years more, and you still wanted to have children, I'd tell ya how bad this idea is, but you've got time on your side, and can relax while you see how it all goes.

I don't think you're being silly, after all the goal of most people in an LDR is to close the distance as soon as possible, and damn the consequences, so you're just doing it a bit differently. Nothing wrong with that. When the time finally comes to go CD, you should know each other so well at that point, you won't have any doubt about the decision. You know this LD stuff really is one day at a time, so don't focus on the big numbers, just see where life takes you. Eventually, the timing will be right, and you'll know it when it happens

Kids these days....

[Haley53]

Never leave this forum, Moon.

I don't think you're being a d-bag! I have always said that my educational goals come before anything else, and I believe that if my relationship is going to be successful, it's going to complement my educational goals. My education and my career are incredibly important to me. They come almost before anything and everything, and I have made sure my SO is well aware of those terms. In turn, I also don't expect to come before his education, as much as he would like to put me before it at times. I feel it's extremely important, it can only open doors for him, and I'm grateful that he has the opportunity to go back to school and to get his education (and life) back on track. As you mentioned, of course waiting until his brother is of age (though at 16, he's already seen as an adult there - crazy) and maybe even a couple years older is also important. Thankfully, we're still on the same page with him being the one to move. There's a lot to say about the way grief and depression can change one's mindset in certain moments.

But thank you very much! I think realising that I'll be okay whether we break up or don't has made me feel more okay about taking it one day at a time, but there are still days where it's harder than others to do so. I suppose it also doesn't help that while there's the disappointment over 3+ years of long-distance and the frustration over the situation and realising that there are things currently more important than my relationship (as horrible as that sounds to say, and maybe I don't mean more important, but more that they take priority, like school), there's also the fact that I am currently overwhelmed with excitement at the idea of graduate school and some other opportunities that are coming my way because of it - and am equally excited for my SO! It's an odd combination of feelings, even though I still intend to take a gap year and do some travelling/working (though at home) beforehand. xD

Either way, thank you Moon, for your response. Always a pleasure reading your posts.

[flugelhorn]

I often get asked "how do you make your LDR work?" Most people are just in awe & while yes, it is difficult, the bottom line really is that if you want it to work, it will work. I think each couple knows in their heart of hearts what will work & what won't. & it can be hard to admit when you want to change plans but it's not worth it to do something if your heart isn't in it. I think you made the right decision & while it doesn't seem great short-term, it will be better long term. I think people in LDRs are really really good at wondering (worrying) about the future (I include myself in that category!) but the thing is... we just don't know! I really do think it will be okay, if you feel okay about it. The right time will come.

[Zephii]

I think Moon's got it covered

I mean, I'm a big advocate of living together before marriage and all that, but you's will have been in a committed long term relationship how long at that point? Ages. Long visits aren't the same as living together, but I reckon they could be enough. You're a smart chick, you're not just rushing in or anything, you's talk through your issues... You'll be fine

Sounds like you's made a lot of progress besides that, whist the visit was great, I know you struggled with being away for that period of time. A year could very well be too much to ask. You gotta do what's right for you, even if it's not right for many others.

[Haley53]

Thank you both so much!

There was more to the visit being difficult than simply being homesick, but I have to say, you hit the nail on the head there. A part of what made it difficult was realising that I had committed to a year after only a month of having lived there, and I remember after staying there a month last year, I felt suffocated having been in the city for so long, let alone two months of being away from not only the beach, but in a place where everyone's a hippie, environmentalist, or both, and where Eastern philosophies are shared and talked about openly, versus being something people gawk at you for. Though it was only one of the many factors, I genuinely do not think I could have survived in that environment for a year. I don't do well when isolated from my element, or from around people who can respect the way that I believe (my SO can, but Dublin doesn't exactly foster that environment or provide the opportunities to explore it like I have here).

And Zephii, it will have been 5 years in a LDR and with several visits, most long-term, under our belts, so ages indeed.

I have really missed this forum. <3

[Tooki]

I'm in a similar situation as well.

My missus and I don't know what our future holds. She could come here on a working holiday visa, we could apply for a defacto visa, she could get PR in two years and she can start her life here.

But it's in both of our best interests for her to study. That is most feasible for her in Europe.

So at the end of the day, unless she is willing to do what you didn't, it will be long-term visits for us! But hey, it's all worth it in the end right?

[Haley53]

I certainly hope so.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one in this situation though!

[lucybelle]

I'm sorry Eclaire, I am way too ADD to read through all these posts and your original, but I feel like I got the gist of it...

I would never be okay with marrying someone before living with them. And I think if you even have the slightest doubt about it, then you should make a way to live with each other too. I know lots of people are saying "long term, blah blah" but geeze louise being LD and LIVING with a person is a huge freaking difference. It doesn't matter if it's been ___ number of years. I'm not saying that your relationship is doomed if you don't live with each other, I'm just saying that if you don't feel 100% confident about marrying without living with each other, you shouldn't do it.

[lademoiselle]

I can kind of relate. Almost as soon as I found out I had a place on my uni course, I started looking into the Erasmus Programme. The chance to live abroad for a year and be with my SO (of course I would have chosen France!) was a very, very tempting one, but after thinking about it at length I realised that the upheaval would be too much. I know that if I were to sign up for the project I'd be doing so because I wanted to be closer to my SO, not because it would be the best thing for my degree, and at this point in time the latter has to be my priority. Remaining in the UK will bring my SO and I to 5 years of being LD too, and as it is we have no guarantees of being able to close the distance immediately afterwards.

Regarding living together before marriage, I can't say, but I think the previous posters made some interesting points! Personally, I'd want to live with my SO for at least one year before we tied the knot, but our visits, although more frequent, are generally shorter (3-4 days at a time); I'm not sure if how we get along then is a reliable indicator of how we'd manage living together permanently. I'd say this one is up to you and your SO to decide

[Biddlybiddlybombop]

I'm in a similar boat, except it's my SO who is doing the moving. Things happened, plans change, we're now not sure when he'll get here.

I think that it's very brave of you to decide to push back the working holiday and focus on school. I definitely believe that if things are right, you know about them, even if it's a difficult decision to make. It's good to be honest with yourself about what things you're ready for.

And in terms of the 'easier' comment you made in your first post, I got that from my most recent visit too. I was seriously hoping I wasn't the only one actually finding things getting easier rather than getting harder. I thought I might be a freak of nature, haha.

Although it sucks that it's going to be a while before you can close the distance, this post seems like progress rather than a backwards step.

[Haley53]

Thank you to everyone.

@lucybelle: I suppose the hardest part is figuring out how that living together is going to happen. A big factor in not going is that I underestimated the time I would have to devote to applying for graduate school, doing the GREs, etc. I had been under the impression applying while abroad (because I would not defer for two years) was going to be simpler than it ended up looking like it would be. I can't let my education suffer for my relationship. But what are his options? The U.S. is almost impossible to get into with a work visa based on the ridiculous requirements of the visa/program, and I have 3-5 years of graduate school with 1.5-2 years of interning before I go up before the board and get a license that's applicable to the States and, depending on if I go for the MFT or LPCC, primarily California. Even if I did have the means of moving by that time, even for a temporary amount of time, I would have to be okay with postponing my career. Then again, closing the distance isn't something we're going to be discussing more seriously until probably 3 years from now. Maybe I'll have a clearer idea when I'm actually ready to make moves to get married and start our life together (currently, I'm still focused on building mine).

@lademoiselle: But a year is more doable for you two, yes? Does he need a visa to come live/stay with you or vice versa? I suppose that what makes everything that much harder. It would be easier for me to get the visa and make the move, but it was never me who was expected to make the move. It did seem like a gap year would be the perfect opportunity for me to make that temporary move, but looking at everything from a logical perspective and thinking, too, about how I felt about it, I feel like it would be forcing it and I am not sure I would get my grad school applications done as thoroughly as they needed to be. So it's frustrating. But with that said, I'm not ready to be married yet in general, whether my SO was here or not, whether we'd lived together already or not, so maybe I'll have a clearer idea of what we need to do before closing the distance, if anything, when I'm actually ready and prepared to take that step?

@Biddly: Thank you. <3 And it's nice to know I'm not alone. I hear a lot of people talk about how much harder it gets, every single time, so I felt a bit like a freak after I'd calmed down and stopped experiencing the "harder" at the airport.

[Kiyama]

I agree with the other posters. I'm sure you've made the right decision. I'm a strong supporter of following your instincts and if it doesn't feel right, then you shouldn't do it, no matter what reasons there are that speak in favor of this option.

I totally understand your visa troubles though. I'm in the same boat. This whole getting married because of visa thing has been an ongoing discussion in the last few months and it's frustrating. We both want to get married but rushing into it now is not what we want but if he doesn't get a job in Germany and I get a job as a civil servant teacher here, I'll be bound to a place for three years :/ so I don't know what to do but at the end of the day a fiancé visa is our only option after all. I know living together for a long time is different from just a couple of months but I still believe it would work out. With my ex boyfriend, I already realised after a month of living together that it wouldn't and even before I had doubts about the relationship and none of that is the case now. So if this visa is your only option, go for it!

@Biddly: Thank you. <3 And it's nice to know I'm not alone. I hear a lot of people talk about how much harder it gets, every single time, so I felt a bit like a freak after I'd calmed down and stopped experiencing the "harder" at the airpo

I feel a bit like that. This is the first time we parted and I feel good. Not emotionally unstable as usual but stronger and happy with my life and with a strong connection to my SO, despite the distance. I'm more easy going with regard to talk time and all that too, which is surprising

[lucybelle]

My main point was- if you don't feel 100% comfortable with being married before living together, find a way to live together first.

[Shepard-Fowkes]

If just living together was an option, she wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. You can't just ignore all the things that make immigration difficult or even impossible. Eclaire has already explained to you why your advice won't work so it was unnecessary and unhelpful to repeat yourself.