Discussing hypothetical situations with your SO....

[Ovrlrd]

... And arguments that stem from them. Or perhaps you've found out something new about them that makes you love them more?

The situations pertain to everyday life, our future together, living together, etc. Sometimes they're the 'what would you do kind'. It's usually fun and always interesting. However, this time was not.

We had our first major argument which spanned for two days. It was difficult because neither of us could really put ourselves in the shoes of the other. For the first time I couldn't understand him and vice versa. Emotions ran high, tears were shed, and end call buttons were pressed only to call again immediately after.

It was tiring....
And it was all for a hypothetical future dog.

My SO has grown up surrounded by lots of pets. He can't imagine a life without them. His perfect life would include his dream girl (me), a few dogs, cats, turtles, fish, and birds (only because I love them).

I'm happy with all of it except the dogs. I don't want to live with one. Dogs are nice. I can play with a friend's dog or even my SO's, but I don't feel clean afterwards. I don't want to feel like that in my own home.

He said that I was killing his dream, but for me he would do it. He became almost as sad as when I have to leave during a visit. This was something that was going to bother him for months because he'd have to work on imagine never owning a dog.

Long story short, we came to a resolution that he could have one older, medium small dog that was trained to follow my house rules.

I'm secretly struggling to fully accept this. Mainly due to the fact that I really am opposed as well as the idea of sacrifice. He said that one of us will have to sacrifice for the other. I will marry him. The moment I do, I will be considered dead to my family. I will kill their dream. I will be the one to close the distance because I am in the position to. There is a small part of me that wonders why I should be the only one to make life-altering, dream-killing sacrifices. Then I start to feel selfish and immature for thinking that way. Hence the "compromise".

Feel free to give me advice and share your own stories.

[kacie]

I understand that, we've had hypothetical conversations and argued about it, with me feeling, like you, that I'm already giving up so much, why can't I have something I do want

[mllebamako]

I think it's good to talk about hypothetical future situations...but only to an extent. In the beginning, I was really worried about my SO's and my cultural differences so I asked a billion hypothetical questions that led to a lot of unnecessary fights. Now we're married with a child and we have lived through some of those hypothetical situations, some that I was really worried about ended up not being a problem at all, and then some things that came up were problems I could've never imagined.

What I'm trying to say is, we don't live in the future and we can't predict how things will turn out. It's good to have these conversations but don't let them rule your relationship. Maybe your SO will change his mind later on, maybe you will. My mom hated dogs and never wanted one but she conceded and let me get one when I was young and she fell in love with the dog I chose. Now I haven't lived at home in almost a decade, my dog has passed away, but my mom has gotten two dogs since!

[temporaryuser]

why is your family opposed toyour SO? Why will you be dead to them? This will help me with the rest of it

[lucybelle]

My SO hates dogs. But he loves me. So we have a dog. I take care of her for the most part. He just has to put up with her in the house.

[Ovrlrd]

I think it's good to talk about hypothetical future situations...but only to an extent. In the beginning, I was really worried about my SO's and my cultural differences so I asked a billion hypothetical questions that led to a lot of unnecessary fights. Now we're married with a child and we have lived through some of those hypothetical situations, some that I was really worried about ended up not being a problem at all, and then some things that came up were problems I could've never imagined.

What I'm trying to say is, we don't live in the future and we can't predict how things will turn out. It's good to have these conversations but don't let them rule your relationship. Maybe your SO will change his mind later on, maybe you will. My mom hated dogs and never wanted one but she conceded and let me get one when I was young and she fell in love with the dog I chose. Now I haven't lived at home in almost a decade, my dog has passed away, but my mom has gotten two dogs since!

I fully agree and understand what you're saying. I've tried to express that this is how I feel at the moment. Maybe I will still feel the same in a few years. Part of the problem is that he can't deal with a maybe, maybe not situation. It needs to be resolved now. Not later. Either we will have one or not.

I already know that the compromise is a gateway. Once a dog is in our lives, it's there for good. And there's a good chance for more.

[temporaryuser]

If you are willing to have a dog so long as it abides by your rules, then you will have to be willing to take it to obedience classes. Doing so, will make it bond to you and listen to you and give YOU the tools to enforce the behaviours that you approve of.

[Ovrlrd]

why is your family opposed toyour SO? Why will you be dead to them? This will help me with the rest of it

My SO is different culturally and religiously from my family. My mother is very, very religious and looks down upon anyone that doesn't uphold her beliefs. She has taken my relationship as a personal attack on her life. Culturally, the daughters will take care of their mothers. She can't live in my future home because my SO is unclean and I will be the same. I am, and I quote "useless" to her and a terrible investment that would have been aborted if she had known. My brother hates me for putting our mother in this situation and also refused to be part of my life.

I still love her and I hold out for hope that she will someday change her mind. A dog in my home would be extremely unwelcoming to her.

[Ovrlrd]

If you are willing to have a dog so long as it abides by your rules, then you will have to be willing to take it to obedience classes. Doing so, will make it bond to you and listen to you and give YOU the tools to enforce the behaviours that you approve of.

Well, the agreement was that responsibility for the dog would be my SO's. He would have to train it to my standards and I would help to enforce the rules. I'm hoping that an adopted older dog will already have basic training, so all that's left is to make it understand boundaries.

[kayla_622]

If you are willing to have a dog so long as it abides by your rules, then you will have to be willing to take it to obedience classes. Doing so, will make it bond to you and listen to you and give YOU the tools to enforce the behaviours that you approve of.

i agree with this. Its nice that you are both making compromises with this situation but, I think that if you really want to only have it as long as you can control it then you need to be the one who gets it trained or does the training.

[ThePiedPiper]

Well, the agreement was that responsibility for the dog would be my SO's. He would have to train it to my standards and I would help to enforce the rules. I'm hoping that an adopted older dog will already have basic training, so all that's left is to make it understand boundaries.

Be wary on this. If you want a dog shaped this strictly, you're going to want to get a puppy, not a rescue. I love me some rescue dogs, have never owned anything but, but you're rarely going to find a perfect rescue, especially of "middle age." Would you be saving a life? Yes, but at the same time, you have to be willing to accept any behaviours or behaviour problems that might have come from the dog's previous life, problems that might not manifest in a shelter or rescue situation (as honest as many of them will try to be with you). Some people get lucky, and the dog they rescue comes to them problem-free, if not hassle-free, and they're easily able to work or live with the behaviours they were given. Others get dogs on the more extreme end of the behaviour spectrum.

Secondly, you both need to work on training the dog if you're both going to be interacting with it or at least expecting it to abide by the behaviour. The whole "dogs need an alpha" is a crock of bull. Yes, there are dominant dogs and submissive dogs, but the need for an alpha or "top dog" occurs only amongst large groups of strange dogs and the same goes for wolves (when the theory came out, it came out based on studies of captive wolves, not wild wolves, who actually live in family groups and have much the same dynamic as human families). What your dog would need is structure and it would likely need to come from both of you. Even if you don't both participate in training classes or do the main part of the training, you will need to reinforce the dog's behaviour and work with the dog in order to become a figure it respects, not just walks on or listens to only when SO is around. A dog is often not a one person endeavor, depending on the type of dog you want to mould. Whether the dog will come with basic training is going to depend strongly on the luck of the dog. Some rescues will come to you knowing a few key things like "sit" and maybe a cute trick like "shake," but most won't have had any training at all or any training prior to their foster home. Also, given the nature of rescues, a lot of rescues require a strong series of working with that dog on basic obedience for them to have their commands down pat in your home.

Thirdly, a dog will not live harmoniously in a household where there's tension over it. I would say that cats are a bit more sensitive to this than dogs, but dogs still feel it too and it can sometimes cause behaviour problems to emerge or continue. I think you both need to come to a compromise that leaves you both feeling okay with a dog. Maybe doing some research into dogs or specific breeds could help you find one you're happy with? For example, what is it about dogs that makes you come away feeling dirty? Perhaps a dog with more strict grooming requirements and less drool would make you feel better than some drooly dog bred to run amok in the woods. If it's the fur that bothers you, maybe you would be willing to consider a hairless Chinese Crested? Funky little dogs that require their own unique bathing and grooming routine, but it could help avoid the problem of you feeling unclean. In the end, though, I think the big thing you have to realise is that all animals are unclean. Even birds. All make a mess, all, like human children, require a pretty decent amount of care, and your house will never be as immaculate as you want it to be when you have pets. You can tell people who have pets from people who don't sheerly by looking at the state of their homes. This is something you need to find a peace with, if possible, because the tension over the dog is only going to cause more problems than, frankly, the innocent party (the dog) deserves.

Fourthly, your SO wanting a dog is not comparable to you leaving your home for him. You cannot hold against him what this relationship has done to your family ties, and you cannot say that because you're losing your family for him, you deserve to have a dog free home or that because you're sacrificing your family, he can sacrifice a dog. I know it might not seem like it, but they're incomparable, and I think you're aware of that. Even if your SO didn't get a dog, there's always the chance that you two could move, get married, and then get divorced. And then where would you be? You can't resent him because the relationship didn't work, and even if he was the one who didn't try, resenting him would only hurt you in the end. Making the decision to move needs to be done with full acceptance of any potential consequences, and it needs to be done without any expectation of reciprocation (unless it's expecting him to work with you to compromise when it comes to a place to live etc.), but I think you understand that. I will say, however, that I would not be willing to be with anyone who told me I could not keep cats. That would be a dealbreaker for me. I have never been able to make people who have not grown up with pets understand my point either, and that's okay. I simply wanted to say that not being able to have an animal I love would be as much a dealbreaker for me as someone who was severely allergic to them or who simply didn't like them because of x, y, or z reasons. None of it is or should be related to sacrifice or compromise because, for some people, it's as strong as saying "I want children" and their SO is very strongly against having them, and someone who wants to have kids being miserable at the prospect of not having them or not wanting to stay in a relationship where they couldn't be had... Sacrifice or compromise don't even come into it. That is about sheer compatibility. And I can tell you that people who are pet/animal people and people who are not are likely to run into more issues than just who gets what kind of dog when and how it's raised. It's something to think about for both of you, because one of you is going to need to bend on the tension this is causing and right now, it seems like the issue of bending is only causing more tension.

[lyonsgirl]

Well, the agreement was that responsibility for the dog would be my SO's. He would have to train it to my standards and I would help to enforce the rules. I'm hoping that an adopted older dog will already have basic training, so all that's left is to make it understand boundaries.

The fact is, dogs don't always listen. You can get the smartest dog in the world, but, it's a dog. It will have it's moments where it's well, a dog. I agreed though, with PPs. While I understand you saying "it will be his dog", if you expect for your pet to listen to you when you're "enforcing the rules", as you said, you'll need to spend time with it. Dogs are pack animals by nature, and need to have an "alpha dog". Sometimes they'll listen to the alpha's "2nd in command", but often times it's only when they feel like it.


I'm in the same boat as mlle, though. FH & I have had a number of future talks. And a number of "what if's" and "what about" talks. A few of them we've actually had to agree to say, "we'll talk about this again in 6 months" (or a year, or once we're living together, or once we start talking about having a family, etc). There are some things that honestly, you don't really *need* to talk about right now. (Personally, we have not the slightest clue what we're going to name our kids. Yea, we've talked about it, thrown some ideas around, but we're not planning on having kids for a few years after we close the distance, so, why should we argue about it now?)

You said your SO is culturally and religiously different... do you mind sharing how?


ETA: Well, Piper posted before me, so, ignore the whole "alpha" thing. In my experience, the dogs we have had always end up listening to the person they have spent the most time with. I can hardly ever get our dogs to come immediately when I call them, but when Mom does... they're at her feet in an instant. So I guess it's more about spending time with the dog than being dominant over them. (Thanks, Piper - for the correction. You are right, I couldn't think of the words, though!)

[ThePiedPiper]

ETA: Well, Piper posted before me, so, ignore the whole "alpha" thing. In my experience, the dogs we have had always end up listening to the person they have spent the most time with. I can hardly ever get our dogs to come immediately when I call them, but when Mom does... they're at her feet in an instant. So I guess it's more about spending time with the dog than being dominant over them. (Thanks, Piper - for the correction. You are right, I couldn't think of the words, though!)

You are absolutely right. It's like parenting! For example, my mother spent the most time with my sister and I growing up. That meant my mother also handled most of the discipline. My father occasionally got angry, but it was often stupid (he spanked, and his idea of spanking was to ask us if we wanted soft, medium, or hard spankings) and he never reinforced the behaviour he wanted. If my mother asked us to do something? We did it, stat. If my father did? We giggled around it until mom showed up and then it got done. Imagine a dog like that. One parent can't be the only one handling the discipline, or you risk the dog not listening to the other parent. While dogs might not need Cesar Milan's idea of an alpha, they do need structure, "role models," so to speak, and discipline. Those boundaries will need to come from both of you and you will both need to work with the dog in order to bond and earn its respect.

However, I still maintain that you need to find a way to go from this:



to

this:



With cats, unless there's significant tension between you and the cat/your SO, they can deal with one person doing the feeding, grooming, scooping the litterbox, etc. They don't really listen even to those of us who do all those things anyway so there's no need to throw someone else into the mix. But dogs definitely do need both units on board and willing to work with them. My dog went from being a dog who reacted aggressively to animals and humans to slowly becoming a more confident dog - 3 years later - and this is only increasing with training. Will she ever be a dog I can have around other dogs? No. Will I ever be able to eat out with her on a patio? Probably not. But we are working on her manners and increasing her confidence and faith in me and my mother as handlers so that she doesn't feel like she has to resort to aggression when out on walks or out in areas where we can't avoid people or other dogs. She has increased exponentially since putting the boundaries in place, but they have come from both me and my mother.

If you want to skip the potential behaviour problems, you're going to need to get a puppy, but a puppy is going to take even more joint parenting than an older dog who already knows things like not to potty in the house (usually, anyway). Another thing I can recommend is taking some books out at the library? I'm not sure if that would help. While I'm terrified of spiders and still cannot touch or go too near them, really working hard to understand them on a different level has helped me to co-exist slightly more peacefully. I no longer experience a panic attack directly on sight of one, no matter the size, even if I sometimes get hot and uncomfortable. Sometimes understanding can expand your horizons. I suggest reading any of Marc Bekoff's books in conjunction with Dogs Never Lie About Love. While Dogs Never Lie About Love is not scientifically based, Marc Bekoff is actually a research professor and can help add some backing to the emotional and deep, cognitive lives of many animals. Canine Body Language and On Talking Terms with Dogs are good to learn what dogs are actually saying in their language. And then you have your standard, run of the mill breed books and encyclopaedias and care books. I would say avoid Cesar Milan if only because Cesar Milan has based most of his training theories on large groups of strange dogs. You don't even want one dog, let alone a whole pack of them. He's fairly forceful and I believe he's occasionally made things worse. I'm not a huge fan of positive-only training, either, however. I just don't believe in alpha rolling or forceful punishment. That said, it can be good to know what types of training styles and theories are out there, if only to become more educated on the issue, so Milan away if you want. I also found that being aware of different theories helped me come up with a happy medium that I'm comfortable with. I'll leave my personal preferences out of this, as I tend to run more on the holistic end of things and I know not everyone swings that way, but really, I think potentially learning more about dogs or potential breeds or at least becoming more involved in the process might help?

[lyonsgirl]

You should listen to Piper. She knows what's up when she's talking about cats & dogs.

[Rugger]

I'm in the same boat with your SO, not having a dog would be a deal-breaker for me. I've always had a dog. Always. I'm 24 years old and the longest I've not had a dog is a year.My first word was the name of my first dog. I would not date a person who didn't want or didn't like dogs.

I don't think there can be a compromise in something like this. It's like having kids. If one person wants children and the other doesn't, it's not going to work. A dog is like a child in the respect that it needs to be cared for and trained. I think you are going to end up resenting the dog if you get one. Only you can decide if it's a deal breaker or not

Secondly, you can't blame your SO for you moving. YOU chose to move you wanted to move, not because of him. If you start blaming him, you shouldn't be with hi,