He lied about hanging out with a female friend

[Rugger]

So instead of dwelling on the fact that he lied, perhaps you could focus on the "why"? Lying is not something we should condone but, like I said above, sometimes it is done with good intentions. That isn't something we should forget.
And if lying is a direct and blatant violation of your ground rules and you feel it a big issue, then first you two need to built mutual trust like I said in my previous reply. Without that, those rules mean nothing in my opinion. I have no obligation to be truthful to someone I don't even trust, for example.

I really really agree with this. In my line of work, the how is less important than the why. It's not " Oh this guy was murdered", It's " why was this guy murdered, what was the motivation behind it". The OP's SO wasn't lying to be malicious, he was lying to not hurt her feelings. If I found out my boyfriend lied to me, I would want to find out why, so we couldn't potentially talk it through and avoid that situation again.

Everyone lies. It's just a fact. They need to sit down and hash it out. Make new boundaries that they can both be comfortable with.

[Ahava]

I really really agree with this. In my line of work, the how is less important than the why. It's not " Oh this guy was murdered", It's " why was this guy murdered, what was the motivation behind it". The OP's SO wasn't lying to be malicious, he was lying to not hurt her feelings. If I found out my boyfriend lied to me, I would want to find out why, so we couldn't potentially talk it through and avoid that situation again.

Everyone lies. It's just a fact. They need to sit down and hash it out. Make new boundaries that they can both be comfortable with.

I am very curious, what do you do/where do you work at?

[Dezface]

I really really agree with this. In my line of work, the how is less important than the why. It's not " Oh this guy was murdered", It's " why was this guy murdered, what was the motivation behind it". The OP's SO wasn't lying to be malicious, he was lying to not hurt her feelings. If I found out my boyfriend lied to me, I would want to find out why, so we couldn't potentially talk it through and avoid that situation again.

Everyone lies. It's just a fact. They need to sit down and hash it out. Make new boundaries that they can both be comfortable with.

But that's all a matter of perspective. If you were in law enforcement instead of law, the how would be be more important than the why. I disagree with the feeling I get in this thread that lying is OK if there's a reason behind it. I do agree that she should be figuring out why he felt the need to lie to her. But I still don't think there's any reason that absolves him of responsibility.

[silvermoonfairy3]

I really really agree with this. In my line of work, the how is less important than the why. It's not " Oh this guy was murdered", It's " why was this guy murdered, what was the motivation behind it".

What on earth do you DO?!
(Or would you have to kill me if you tell me? :P )

[silvermoonfairy3]

I agree a little bit with everyone here. He should not have agreed to her terms if he could not abide by them. However, after agreeing to her terms perhaps he realized how difficult it was going to be to follow them. Telling her that her terms were unreasonable after he agreed to them, I'm sure would have upset her. Hanging out with his girlfriends that she hasn't met and telling her about them also would have upset her. And lying to her about hanging out with these friends also stirred the pot. Maybe on different levels but they all would have caused some conflict. Exactly how was he supposed to proceed here? What solution could be reached where she would be ok with him hanging with these friends that wouldn't cause her some level of discomfort?

The OP has clearly stated how uncomfortable she was with him hanging out with his female friends one on one when she hasn't met them and would prefer it if they hung out in a group. It's not always easy to get a group together to hang out. Much harder then calling a friend and saying lets hang out. That's why that part of their agreement isn't always going to work. So, with that in mind how long was he going to go without seeing those particular friends that she hasn't met? The OP never said how long they go between visits. I know some people here go months to years. Is that really fair to him?

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been in her SOs shoes. I lied about who I was hanging out with to avoid conflict. And I guess all of you would say this was a red flag to my SO that I was dishonest and/or cheating. Well I never ever cheated on him. It was a lie, it was wrong, but I had a good reason to tell it. You can only have the same argument so many times before it gets old. Especially when it doesn't get resolved. Fear can make you do a lot of things, lying included. I've also been in her shoes, wanting to know where my SO is and with who at all times. It doesn't work. It suffocates your partner.

They have only been together 9 months, and this is the first time they have entered LDR territory. Both the OP and her SO need to be cut some slack. They need to figure out what works for them, the middle ground. If she doesn't want to be lied to, then he has to be able to tell her things without thinking it's going to upset her. This is the first time he has lied to her, so I think the best thing to do is handle the issue and move past it. This shouldn't be a deal breaker. It's not the biggest lie someone could tell. (ex. Cheating, having an addiction, etc.). Ok a lie is a lie, but some lies aren't as big as others. To me this is not a huge one.

+1.

Completely agree, this is really clearly explained, and yes, the OP and the SO do both deserve some slack as they're working out the logistics of the LDR. And yeah, I agree, lies have degrees of seriousness, and IMO the why is also quite important.

[silvermoonfairy3]

But that's all a matter of perspective. If you were in law enforcement instead of law, the how would be be more important than the why. I disagree with the feeling I get in this thread that lying is OK if there's a reason behind it. I do agree that she should be figuring out why he felt the need to lie to her. But I still don't think there's any reason that absolves him of responsibility.

Apologies if I'm putting words in the mouths of people who are saying similar things as me..
but I don't think any of us are saying lying is okay. In fact, in one of my previous posts, I specifically said that his reasons don't absolve him, and even used that word. I don't want this to sound rude, but I think if you're getting the feeling that we're saying lying is okay, you aren't actually reading what we're saying, and are just reading into it what you expect to hear from the opposing view.

We're saying it's absolutely not okay, but in order to understand what caused him to do it (and therefore how to work together on repairing damage from it and avoid it in the future) the OP needs to look at the circumstances that led to the lie and her own role (if any, which some of us think she had, but she - and others - may not) in creating the circumstances.

Honesty is something that the OP should be able to expect and receive from her partner, but her partner, equally, has a right to trust from her. It's a balance, and both parties need to work on keeping it that way. I, personally, think the OP had started messing with that balance with some of the demands on his friendships, and think that's what caused the honest side of the scales to be out of whack. I would be very surprised if it's any sort of issue like cheating or a deeper motive than he just wanted to hang out with friends, and not cause friction with his girlfriend while doing so.

[LadyDaemon]

Apologies if I'm putting words in the mouths of people who are saying similar things as me..
but I don't think any of us are saying lying is okay. In fact, in one of my previous posts, I specifically said that his reasons don't absolve him, and even used that word.

I know I said I wouldn't be responding anymore,but I felt I needed to say this. I do believe I said multiple times also that his lying was not ok. But the feeling I get here is that some people think we're supposed to put this guy in the stocks at noon in the town square and persecute him. No one is saying his lying is ok. (Forgive me if anyone thinks I'm putting words in their mouths) We're simply saying that there's more to this that lead to this issue then what some people are willing to see. All some see is strictly the fact that he lied without asking why. Like I said before,if this was something that occurred more then once and occurred regularly then I'd say 'Sure,have at being pissed at him for his lying. No questions asked.',but it was one time. Sometimes in certain situations like Rugger said,why needs to be more looked into then the how. As I said before in my other posts,I don't honestly believe he did it with ill intent.

Personally if this were me in this situation I would ask why before I got mad. But that's me,and I'm the kind of person that almost never thinks any situation is strictly black and white. Also,like ruby,I've been in a position where I lied about someone I hung out with or something I did simply because I was with someone who at the time would flip a switch every time he found out I wasn't in a specific spot with a specific person exactly when I said I would be. God forbid the person was male either. Yes,I did tell my ex that I would let him know when I was going some where and who I'd be with and he'd tell me he wouldn't get mad,but he did anyway. After a while of that going on,to me it just wasn't worth the battle or getting screamed at over the phone anymore. Was my lying ok then? No. Does that make me a bad person? No. But I did it out of fear of confrontation because I didn't trust that my SO wouldn't fly off the handle at me every time I wanted to go somewhere or hang out with someone. So maybe I understand this from a totally different perspective then most would.

[folclor]

I plan for this to be my last post in this particular thread as I cannot flesh things out more than I have...

The feeling I'm getting when I read these posts is a sort of dogpile on the OP saying, "It's all your fault." It's not. It's not wrong for her to feel this way, especially with just starting out in a long distance relationship. If she isn't comfortable yet (mind you, she's already said the whole hanging out with a group of friends is meant to be temporary) with him hanging out with girls she doesn't know one on one, that's okay.

Everyone's saying she should trust him. I'm thinking she already has in the past and he's built up some trust. However, 9 months is not a lot of time to completely trust someone. And, because they went from CD to LD that makes the trust harder to immediately grant. A lot of us started out LD and we had no other choice. If our SOs said they were going to see friends we had to just believe them and we didn't have the benefit of saying, "Don't hang out with people of the opposite sex that I don't know unless you're in a larger group" because we didn't know any of their friends to begin with.

So we can't look at this from the perspective we already have (unless you've been in this specific situation or something extraordinarily similar to it).

Also, she already knows why he lied. He said so. He said he didn't want to make her uncomfortable, which is essentially what y'all have been saying this whole time. She told us he said it in post 1. There's no mystery here on why he lied. He was trying to make the situation easiest for everyone and probably assumed she never would've found out. She wouldn't've had she not been using his phone. He obviously forgot about it and if he lets her use his personal electronic devices that means he doesn't feel he has anything to hide. Unfortunately, he was hiding something even if it wasn't a huge thing.

The important thing here is not to continue with saying she's the problem. It takes two. Is she wrong in trying to restrict him? I'd say yes if it was truly, "I'm not okay with you seeing any other girls." But we don't know how close he is with these other girls. If they're just classmates or casual acquaintances it's not a stretch to ask him not to hang out with them alone. If they're super close, yeah, that's a stretch. But should you really make your SO that uncomfortable in the first month or two of being LD?

If he wanted to hang out with this girl there's no evidence to suggest that the OP would've told him she wasn't okay with it, especially with another friend there. Should they talk about this in depth? Very much so. This is something they need to discuss and really understand about boundaries. But instead of saying, "Oh how terrible you are to put up 'restrictions'" or even, "Oh, he's a terrible person for lying" how about we just answer her original questions? ^^;

These are her questions, right here:

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before? Anyone with a happy ending? How do you cope with something like this? Does it sound like I need to be concerned about this female friend?

Not who to point the finger at.

I'm sorry if this comes off as mean or disrespectful. I don't mean disrespect, I just get so annoyed when I see answers that don't answer the questions. Admittedly, my first answer didn't answer the questions either.

[Hollandia]

I don't think he should be put in stocks at noon, but I don't think it is so cut dried either. I think that there are people that are okay with having their SO's hang out with people that they are attracted to ( he went out with in past, so let's say this is true) and there are people that are not okay with it. I get sick of hearing that you don't TRUST the other person if you feel this way, it is not true. It is just you want this type of relationship and others want that type of one. There are attractive people all over the place, in the local grocery store and school or work and maybe even your next door neighbor, but that is different than "hanging" out with them. I prefer not be hang out with other men because I am in a relationship and I think it would be uncomfortable to have a male friend that is attractive to me be thinking about sex on the inside and being my buddy on the outside. Does my SO think about banging the hot babe that works in his sandwich shop in his building? Yes, I am sure he does. Does he go out to dinner with her? Fuck no, or I would not be with him. Why? I don't want that type of relationship. I want one where we both forego such activities. He does too, that is why we are a great couple. If one does and one does not, one of you has to sacrifice something and that will cause a problem imo. In this case, it caused a lie. They need to find a middle ground or accept because of this, she has to deal or he has to deal.

She was not wrong to ask him that, and he can either accept her terms or not, and if he does not she can either accept his terms or not. Neither is wrong, but yes lying was very very wrong.

[rubydissolution]

If he wanted to hang out with this girl there's no evidence to suggest that the OP would've told him she wasn't okay with it, especially with another friend there. Should they talk about this in depth? Very much so. This is something they need to discuss and really understand about boundaries. But instead of saying, "Oh how terrible you are to put up 'restrictions'" or even, "Oh, he's a terrible person for lying" how about we just answer her original questions? ^^;

These are her questions, right here:



Not who to point the finger at.

I'm sorry if this comes off as mean or disrespectful. I don't mean disrespect, I just get so annoyed when I see answers that don't answer the questions. Admittedly, my first answer didn't answer the questions either.

First of all, this is a thread, and people are entitled to respond not only to the OP but to all those who have replied after. Threads would die real fast if all we ever did was reply to 3 simple questions.

Secondly, I answered her questions. 1) "My ex did this to me and I did the same exact thing as your SO." 2) I mentioned that this person is my ex, obviously it didn't work out. 3) in defending his actions, and making the argument that they are just friends, it gives off the opinion that there is nothing to worry about.

Things don't have to be spelled out in bullets for the questions to be answered.

[silvermoonfairy3]

So we can't look at this from the perspective we already have (unless you've been in this specific situation or something extraordinarily similar to it).

I actually have done in person becomes long distance before (though only about 3 hours away) and my feelings on it are the same. If my bf says friends are friends, I'll trust him on that.

The important thing here is not to continue with saying she's the problem. It takes two.

We're ALL saying that this is a 2 person problem.

Is she wrong in trying to restrict him? I'd say yes if it was truly, "I'm not okay with you seeing any other girls." But we don't know how close he is with these other girls.

Doesn't matter. If he wants to get coffee with a female classmate after class, or if he wants to catch a movie with his female friend he's known since kindergarten, both are his prerogative.

If he wanted to hang out with this girl there's no evidence to suggest that the OP would've told him she wasn't okay with it, especially with another friend there.

Well, there is because as per their agreement, he isn't allowed to hang out with female friends the OP hasn't met. Another friend was there, so obviously he was under the impression he couldn't hang out with female friend even with another friend, because SO hadn't met the female friend.

[silvermoonfairy3]

I get sick of hearing that you don't TRUST the other person if you feel this way, it is not true. It is just you want this type of relationship and others want that type of one. There are attractive people all over the place, in the local grocery store and school or work and maybe even your next door neighbor, but that is different than "hanging" out with them.

I'm confused, what is the negative emotion you're associating with it, if it's not distrust, thinking that your partner will cheat?
Is it general jealousy?

There are lots and lots of times that I'm the person saying "it's different for everyone" and "different relationships work differently for people" and so on, but I'm not totally sure I buy that with trust. Many different things are actually a manifestation of a lack of trust. Among them, jealousy, controlling behavior, abusive behavior, etc. And friend restrictions generally fall into controlling behavior, in most circumstances.

Generally, people say that it means you don't trust them because you don't trust that, if they are hanging out with an attractive person, that they will remain faithful, in whatever ways "faithful" means for your particular relationship. It doesn't mean you don't trust them in all ways, like that you suddenly don't trust them to tell the truth, or trust them to keep a secret for you, or whatever.

But, generally, the reason for restricting a partner's friendships are because you don't want something happening, usually cheating on you. This logically means you don't trust them in that regard, because you're basically saying "if I don't keep you away from all other attractive females, you don't have the decency/willpower/respect for me to not try something with them." AKA I don't trust you to stay faithful.

The exception might be if a partner spends *so* much time with another person(s) that they don't have any time for you, in which case it's not a trust issue as much as a respect and wanting to have time/be the important relationship.. but that's rarely actually the case, even if it sometimes gets used as the reasoning.

I really don't understand how in most cases restricting who your partner spends time with can be anything but a trust issue, but perhaps you have some insight.

I prefer not be hang out with other men because I am in a relationship and I think it would be uncomfortable to have a male friend that is attractive to me be thinking about sex on the inside and being my buddy on the outside.

Do you not think it's possible that your buddy is acting like a buddy because he is, and isn't actually secretly undressing you? I think it's odd that you'd assume that any male friend, while acting friendly, is really just thinking about sex on the inside.

She was not wrong to ask him that, and he can either accept her terms or not, and if he does not she can either accept his terms or not. Neither is wrong, but yes lying was very very wrong.

True, and that's what I think we're all trying to get at is, whether she's going to look at her behavior as well and decide if she wants the kind of guy who will go along with such a request, or not.

[kiara_silver]

Im more in the group with hollandia, snow, sharon Q and a few others. Everyone is there own person there free to do what they want, see who they want, go where they want. But when your in a relationship you work together on what your comfortable with, and you do make changes for each other. You communicate your feelings. They apparently talked about it and he agreed. This is what she's comfortable with, if he couldn't he has to communicate and say so, lying leads to distrust. I also feel uncomfortable if my SO were to have one on one with a girl, it just seems like a date to me. (of course there's exceptions to this, im not crazy and if he bumps into someone and has a chat with them, or if hes at work with just a female worker, or life long friends ect ect) I just prefer group hanging out, just makes me feel more comfortable. And he's fine with this, he has his mates he hangs with one on one and then its mostly group things for his work and college friends. And I know I would do the same for him. I don't think it's trust I think it's more comfort. Everyone is different, not to go to extremes but just like some are okay with open relationships, that's there preference and to others they would never do that. Some find some things flirting some don't, some believe in emotional cheating others don't. I don't think it's wrong for her or anyone to ask this. I think it's wrong to ask it and he said no and she then attacked him on it or forced him, he wasn't forced to. Relationships are about give and take, and you do make sacrifices for each other, and if you can't that's when you need to discuss it or you aren't compatible enough or where your differences lie. It's about trust, communication, and respect.

[Hollandia]

I'm confused, what is the negative emotion you're associating with it, if it's not distrust, thinking that your partner will cheat?
Is it general jealousy?

There are lots and lots of times that I'm the person saying "it's different for everyone" and "different relationships work differently for people" and so on, but I'm not totally sure I buy that with trust. Many different things are actually a manifestation of a lack of trust. Among them, jealousy, controlling behavior, abusive behavior, etc. And friend restrictions generally fall into controlling behavior, in most circumstances.

Generally, people say that it means you don't trust them because you don't trust that, if they are hanging out with an attractive person, that they will remain faithful, in whatever ways "faithful" means for your particular relationship. It doesn't mean you don't trust them in all ways, like that you suddenly don't trust them to tell the truth, or trust them to keep a secret for you, or whatever.

But, generally, the reason for restricting a partner's friendships are because you don't want something happening, usually cheating on you. This logically means you don't trust them in that regard, because you're basically saying "if I don't keep you away from all other attractive females, you don't have the decency/willpower/respect for me to not try something with them." AKA I don't trust you to stay faithful.

The exception might be if a partner spends *so* much time with another person(s) that they don't have any time for you, in which case it's not a trust issue as much as a respect and wanting to have time/be the important relationship.. but that's rarely actually the case, even if it sometimes gets used as the reasoning.

I really don't understand how in most cases restricting who your partner spends time with can be anything but a trust issue, but perhaps you have some insight.



Do you not think it's possible that your buddy is acting like a buddy because he is, and isn't actually secretly undressing you? I think it's odd that you'd assume that any male friend, while acting friendly, is really just thinking about sex on the inside.



True, and that's what I think we're all trying to get at is, whether she's going to look at her behavior as well and decide if she wants the kind of guy who will go along with such a request, or not.

Please stop trying to make this into you are right and I am wrong type of debate. I stated my opinion and you stated yours.

[rubydissolution]

We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree here. There is one group that wholeheartedly supports her. And one that that supports her and are empathetic with him let's not make this a thread fight. We just don't see eye to eye that's all.