Midlife Crises

[silvermoonfairy3]

That is your opinion, one that I, being a man myself, disagree with.

Most men are that way and it's not bullshit. Whether our behavior and how we deal with feelings is a biological thing or whether we are a product of nurture and our environment I don't know, but in most western societies, men are expected to be strong, immovable rocks that society and women can rely on, but deep inside men are really insecure and easily hurt, especially BECAUSE society expects us to be immovable rocks that people and our wives can rely on, it places a huge burden on us. When we don't express our feelings, it's because we are indeed too scared to do so. We are afraid to get hurt.

We're talking about two separate things.
You're talking about men being conditioned to not be in touch with their feelings/not be able to show vulnerability. I agree that there's that societal pressure.

I'm talking about men who are players/jerks/immature, who women make the excuse of "but he really does care! he just can't show it!" when 9 times out of 10 he actually doesn't care, and it becomes apparent later.

Most men I know aren't like that, we are too afraid to be rejected, too afraid to be hurt, too afraid to cause conflict and hurt ourselves and others.

Women are like that, too, hehe. That's not just a guy thing. Women psychologically tend to want to avoid conflict, though that varies a bit woman to woman, obviously, like it does with men.

I think if we would all try a little harder to understand the opposite sex and more importantly, our own SO, we'll get so much further.

EXACTLY. This was my point before with how we shouldn't get sucked into this "women can't understand men" and "men and women are so totally different, from different planets." All men are not the same, all women are not the same, and pigeonholing based on stereotypes makes it that much harder to communicate effectively and as you say, try harder to understand the opposite sex and our SOs in particular.

And so you're putting the blame entirely on the man in this particular example. Which in my opinion is very unfair.

No, it's also on the woman for allowing herself to be treated that way. And if it was a woman being a controlling or cheating jerk to the man, I would have the same thought on it.

Which I can already tell you is not true. It might be true, sometimes, but very often it's not.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, too. People who actually care about other people in a healthy way don't consistently treat them like they don't give a shit about them.

Again, not saying that a man treating a woman like he doesn't give a shit is a good thing, nor do I try to justify such behavior. I'm just saying that when a man acts that way, it doesn't always mean he also feels that way.

I guess I'm saying it doesn't matter. Intention vs. action. If a man doesn't *intend* to be a dick, he can choose to behave in such a way that makes him not a dick. However, claiming to not want to be a dick, or saying that no, wait, he does care and then every action belying that is exactly what I'm referring to with playing games and childish behavior. That is the definition of controlling/manipulative/toying with someone, etc.

Again, I'd like to make clear that I think there's a world of difference between an established SO doing something a bit jerkish, or doing the 'ignoring'/needing time thing, as opposed to a newish relationship (especially if you're not really official yet, etc.) but telling someone you feel one way and then treating them like crap, or expecting someone to put up with bad behavior because that person hasn't figured out how to effectively "deal with" their emotions is just bizarre.

Frankly, it's one of those things where I think if someone (man or woman) can't "handle" the intensity of a relationship, or is "scared of" how much they care, they might want to re-evaluate their readiness to be in a relationship, and maybe just stick to casual dating until they've sorted their feelings and learned how to manage those internal struggles. It'll save themselves and a partner a lot of pain and confusion.

Anyways.
I don't think we're going to agree, but I enjoyed the discussion.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

This is just a waste of my time going back and for with certain people who don't bother to read the whole story and seem to skip out on the most important details. If he really wasn't interested as you claim, then I would have just left it at that. Like I said for the millionth time, whenever we talked, he still seemed interested he just couldn't handle the distance. Honestly, I feel like some of you really do just itch to call people obsessed, crazy, etc. In fact, I'm not going to lie that I am obsessed. I even say so in my stories that I am and whenever people read them they don't seem to insult me for it because they understand my longing.

Everyone who reads our stories know that I am, he knows that I am and I'm not going to deny it. My obsession didn't drive him away.

What drove him away was that I kept saying it's killing me not knowing when I'll be able to see him and there is nothing he can do right now about seeing each other in person.

What drove him away was your constant pressuring him. My SO has a code phrase for me when I push him too much about the future, about wanting more contact, etc., especially about things he has no control over. He says, Pressure, pressure! And that is my cue to back off or change the subject, or risk getting into an argument.

And your other problem which you just don't want to face is that he is only 19, and in college! He doesn't want to be tied down, and why should he? He has his own life to live, things to learn, people to meet, including girls to date, up close and personal. You need to get your own life! You are still young, at 28, still have a long life ahead of you. Make your life an adventure! Get out and DO things! Don't be obsessed with finding someone for a LDR, or even, at this point someone closer to you. Let it happen when it happens, after you have done something for yourself. Right now, you are not ready for a serious relationship.

[differentcountries]

I think it is true for people regardless of gender that they often do care even if they don’t show it the way we prefer. But caring is not enough, somehow we need to get better at showing people. When women panic, they tend to pull too close. When men panic, they tend to back off. Each gender does what is to the other the worst thing. The healthy thing to do is often to do something different than your instict tells you to. It doesn't really matter if people are cruel or just bad communicators, because if you bring mostly hurt there is no relationship.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

They read each others lips...or typed.
I've heard of other people (who are too shy to speak on cam) do the same thing, you have a Skype sesh but you type everything you want to say.

When it happens with my SO & I its usually coz Skype/or something else technical is against us and we can't hear each other.

Yes, that is what happened to us, when I got my first headset. It didn't work. I could hear him, but he couldn't hear me, so for a few days, until my new headset came in, he talked, I listened and typed. He joked about how he had the perfect girlfriend, one that would let him get a word in edgewise, without interrupting.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

When a guy ignores you it doesn't always mean that he stopped caring. I sometimes ignore my SO when I feel hurt or overwhelmed and need time alone to sort things out for myself. In fact, when I ignore my SO, I do so because I care so much. If I didn't care I would just tell her to piss off, but as long as a man doesn't tell you to piss off, it's a safe bet that he still cares about you, even when he seems to ignore you.

However, just because a man still cares about you doesn't mean he still wants to be with you. Him doubting his future with you might in fact be the very reason why he seems to be ignoring you. He probably needs time alone to figure out what he really wants and what is best for him.

My SO does the same thing. When he is feeling overwhelmed, hurt or stressed out, or needs time to figure things out, he gets very quiet. I used to think he was ignoring me, until one day when he had a bad day with his job, and I was chattering away, not realizing it, he said he needed to be quiet for a while, and told me why. He does that when he's in a bad mood, too, sometimes, rather than vent to me. And I respect his space and he always gets back to me soon.

[Malaga]

I know this post is supposed to be sarcastic, but you have no idea how right you are. It's just how most men are. You can either accept it, or search for a man who isn't like that. They're probably rare, but I'm sure they exist.

The problem is you identify "men" with "me". What entitles you to that? If you said, well I'm like that and it's just the way I'm wired, nobody could deny you that. But you're so self-absorbed you think the world is a reflection of your experience and that's where you put your foot in your mouth. It's so easy to refute. I mean, what do you base that pearl of wisdom on? That male and female brains are neurologically different? The impact in this context is so open to interpretations it's basically what you choose to believe in.
The fact you know 10, 20 or 100 guys who are like that? What if I get you 10, 20 or 100 guys who are not like that?

You keep repeating the same thing, "it's just the way men are even if you don't believe in it", yet you can't explain what you base this on. You say "different men are probably rare" and you have 10 forum members (in this small community alone) who jump in with contradicting experience, but that doesn't mean anything right? Because women, how could they possibly know what their boyfriends are like. You say a lot of things that have no merit but you still expect to be taken seriously.

It is true that men and women are taught to act and think a certain way and to believe that the opposite sex is a "different species", but what makes you think this is something we should accept rather than refuse? What makes you think this is natural? And what makes you think men and women who go against the grain are rare or wrongly wired?

In the end you're just a 25 year old dude who has it all figured out - you know the way men are and you're here to teach us, and women, well who knows what they're like but they're definitely not like you who represents most men. It's easier to claim that's 'the way things are' than to actually do some introspection and self-work. Because seeing similarities and understanding them is not about projecting who you are on the other person (though I see why you'd think that, since you project yourself on your entire gender). It's realising some (often unpleasant) truths about yourself.

EDT: You know how you find a man who isn't 'like that'? When you stop expecting them to 'be like that'.

[Hollandia]

I think we should make a thread for the men on the forum and let them present their differing opinions instead of any females trying to lecture that one that does for presenting his.

[Ahava]

Maybe taylor swift can write a song about this

LOL
This made my day

[Alle1770]

This thread is hilarious. I can't believe it's actually still going xD

[TwoThree]

I for one am appalled at the lack of pictures of red sports cars.

[Luc]

The problem is you identify "men" with "me". What entitles you to that? If you said, well I'm like that and it's just the way I'm wired, nobody could deny you that. But you're so self-absorbed you think the world is a reflection of your experience and that's where you put your foot in your mouth. It's so easy to refute. I mean, what do you base that pearl of wisdom on? That male and female brains are neurologically different? The impact in this context is so open to interpretations it's basically what you choose to believe in.
The fact you know 10, 20 or 100 guys who are like that? What if I get you 10, 20 or 100 guys who are not like that?

My pearl of wisdom is based on my own experiences, my friends experiences, my colleges experiences, how I've seen other men behave, how my female friends talk about their boyfriends, on scientific research articles, on books about the human mind, books about the differences between men and women, things my psychology teacher told me and simply observing the world around me.

For every 10 men you can find that not like my descriptions at all, I can find you 100 men who are pretty close to what I said before.

Ironically, I'm actually one of those 10 that you could find. I'm not like most men. I don't always fit the description I give about average men. And I'm sure that goes for most men. That's why I talk about averages, about general ideas, general patterns, general behavior patterns in men. I'm not saying that "this is how it is, and all men are exactly like this".

It's through understanding these patterns that we can start to understand our SO's and ask effective questions. By having a general model, you can build expectations and prepare a plan, so to speak. If your own SO doesn't seem to match the expectations or plan, then that's perfectly fine and normal, you'll just have to adjust your model. But by having a basic understanding of general human behavior we can make a good start.

I'm sure that every single person on this forum who had multiple boyfriends/girlfriends can agree that between all their relationships, there have always been returning patterns, returning behavior, things that all your exes and current SO have in common. I'm sure we can all agree that we have learned a great deal from past relationships and that through our past experiences with our previous relationships, we're able to do better now with our current relationship. How would this be possible if all men and women are 100% unique and different? Answer; They aren't 100% unique and different. We all share certain similarities, and there are many patterns in human behavior, some patterns more common or even unique in the male sex, some more common or unique in the female sex.

You keep repeating the same thing, "it's just the way men are even if you don't believe in it", yet you can't explain what you base this on. You say "different men are probably rare" and you have 10 forum members (in this small community alone) who jump in with contradicting experience, but that doesn't mean anything right? Because women, how could they possibly know what their boyfriends are like. You say a lot of things that have no merit but you still expect to be taken seriously.

Women see things differently then men. And that is exactly the entire point I've been trying to make the entire time. I'm sure if I could talk with their boyfriends one-on-one I would hear an entirely different side of the same story, a side that probably matches more with my own experiences and what I wrote down in this thread.

It is true that men and women are taught to act and think a certain way and to believe that the opposite sex is a "different species", but what makes you think this is something we should accept rather than refuse? What makes you think this is natural? And what makes you think men and women who go against the grain are rare or wrongly wired?

Now now, lets not put words in my mouth that I haven't said. That's not very nice. I don't think any of that, well, except for the men and women going against the grain being rare part, because that's just a fact. If they weren't rare or at the very least in the minority, they wouldn't be the ones going against the grain, it would be the other way around.

In the end you're just a 25 year old dude who has it all figured out - you know the way men are and you're here to teach us, and women, well who knows what they're like but they're definitely not like you who represents most men. It's easier to claim that's 'the way things are' than to actually do some introspection and self-work. Because seeing similarities and understanding them is not about projecting who you are on the other person (though I see why you'd think that, since you project yourself on your entire gender). It's realising some (often unpleasant) truths about yourself.

Please leave the argumentum ad hominems out of this. Using such ad hominem arguments in a discussion is not very mature.

[lyonsgirl]

I for one am appalled at the lack of pictures of red sports cars.

And stick-thin, younger blonde women with enormous boobs. I mean, doesn't the babe come with the car?

[silvermoonfairy3]

I don't always fit the description I give about average men. And I'm sure that goes for most men.

Um.. that sort of makes them "not average" then. :P
If "most" don't fit some pieces of it, that speaks to the uniqueness and complexity of men. How many differences can a guy have from the "average" before he's no longer considered to fit the stereotypes? Because I bet just about every guy you know has several traits that don't fit the cultural constructs of masculinity.
I'm actually a little bit surprised you're not more insulted at the thought that "men behave/think a certain way" when you know and say that you yourself don't always behave or think that way.

[silvermoonfairy3]

And stick-thin, younger blonde women with enormous boobs. I mean, doesn't the babe come with the car?

She's in a skimpy bikini, right? And she brings snacks and beer during football games?

[lyonsgirl]

She's in a skimpy bikini, right? And she brings snacks and beer during football games?

Or basketball, or whiskey. But yep. That's the one. And ridiculous 8"+ heels, of course.