The Men of LFAD

[Hollandia]

*Let* the men speak? I missed where someone is actively preventing the men from speaking.

You make it a quite unwelcoming environment.

[Kanga]

I'm actually happy this thread was made, I've been wanting to see men's opinion on this site for a while. Good job on creating the thread.

[Luc]

Absolutely. There are legitimate, documented scientific/biological differences between men and women. But sometimes we apply the logic of "men and women are biologically different" to things that aren't biological differences, but societal ones.

And what makes you so sure that certain behavioral patterns in men and women are societal ones and not biological ones? And why should societal differences count any less than biological differences? Are societal differences less real than biological differences?

At least you admit that there are documented general differences between men and women, and that's really all I'm trying to say this entire time. I think we're really arguing over nothing here. Nobody disagrees with you that every human is an unique individual. I'm simply saying that there are patterns and averages in male and female behavior. There are typical attributes that we see returning in (almost) all men and women. Whether those attributes are biological or societal doesn't matter, what matters is that they are there and they are a fact. It's not pigeonholing, it's simply acknowledging the general differences between men and women and acting accordingly.

If I didn't know what the average woman is like, I would have made a million mistakes every single time when I'm in a new relationship or trying to get into one. The fact that I'm a curious guy who loves to know what makes a woman tick is the reason why I don't make every single mistake possible.
By understanding the average woman's thought patterns and behavioral patterns, I can make accurate predictions and avoid making obvious and stupid mistakes. If I notice that the woman in front of me deviates from my expectations, then I can adjust my expectations and actions accordingly. That's how I deal with women. That's how most men deal with women. Some men even took it to a whole new level and created an entire subculture around "scoring women" through understanding the female psyche and acting accordingly to get what they want (which is usually sex). They call it "the game" (disclaimer: I'm not part of this group myself, but I used to be as a teenager).

If what I say isn't true, then "the game" wouldn't work. The thing is, "the game" does work, which means I must at least be somewhat right.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

How about we let them F#cking speak and stop debating whether or not they should or not so F@cking much?

You know, it feels like the women here are afraid to let them do it. So if no, stop scaring them off long enough to hear them post their opinions. This is not for one of them it is for any of them so let's hear what they really think and that means you actually have to just let them post for awhile.

So to be blunt ladies, can we just shut the frak up for a bit, and let them just talk or can you not handle that? If not, then you really are just proving the point.

Well said! I quite agree! It's like my SO said the time we had problems on Skype with my headset, and I could hear him, but he couldn't hear me, and all I could do was type my replies: He said I was the perfect girlfriend because he could get a word in edgewise, without interruption. But, an amazing thing happened to me during that time, I found I couldn't keep up with my typing, so I gave up and just listened. And he started opening up to me more, and I could feel what he was feeling, by the words he used, the tone of his voice, his inflections, every nuance, and I understood him better and loved him even more. I told him I would try to let him talk more without interruption, and listen to him more. I still try that, but both of us have a tendency to interrupt when we get excited, and both of us are so often on the same wavelength, it's hard to not interrupt, and blurt out what we are thinking on the subject we are discussing. Still it is worth trying really listening to each other.

That said, I am going to stay out of this discussion for a while and let the men speak for themselves.

[Hollandia]

I invited my SO to this thread. I explained how important it was to me and he said he would take a look. It would be sweet to have his opinion. He has no desire to be on here but this would be really cool to hear his perspective.

[Chillosaurus]

Let me make the second (or maybe third) post by a man within this three page long discussion (a little illustration of the OP's point).
I often do not feel well understood in the forum. The answers are most of the time just people expressing themselves and most often not really addressing the question at hand (as we can see here once again). Yes, it helps to talk from time to time - I rather relax and forget -, but when I come here, I am looking to either get a solution or give a solution. I would feel better understood if there'd be a higher male participation, since this is also a way of thinking which is predominantly male.

No, no one is actively preventing men from participating. However, you come from a way of thinking that men would be just like women. It's possible to passively shut a group of people out, by not giving them the right environment.

[iamj]

Let me make the second (or maybe third) post by a man within this three page long discussion (a little illustration of the OP's point).
I often do not feel well understood in the forum. The answers are most of the time just people expressing themselves and most often not really addressing the question at hand (as we can see here once again). Yes, it helps to talk from time to time - I rather relax and forget -, but when I come here, I am looking to either get a solution or give a solution. I would feel better understood if there'd be a higher male participation, since this is also a way of thinking which is predominantly male.

No, no one is actively preventing men from participating. However, you come from a way of thinking that men would be just like women. It's possible to passively shut a group of people out, by not giving them the right environment.

As a dude on this forum, I totally agree chillosaurus. What you're referring to is called raising the white flag -- basically when people just give up and stop trying to voice their opinions. I think this is a pretty active problem because I tried to participate earlier with a man's opinion that it takes a certain type of dude to join an online forum like this... and Hollandia ripped that comment apart because Hollandia assumed I was a woman.

Is there a way to identify you're a male on the forum? I'd love to shoot the shit with the men just to see what made you guys join / why you joined and what your experience has been? (I'm rather new)

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

Let me make the second (or maybe third) post by a man within this three page long discussion (a little illustration of the OP's point).
I often do not feel well understood in the forum. The answers are most of the time just people expressing themselves and most often not really addressing the question at hand (as we can see here once again). Yes, it helps to talk from time to time - I rather relax and forget -, but when I come here, I am looking to either get a solution or give a solution. I would feel better understood if there'd be a higher male participation, since this is also a way of thinking which is predominantly male.

No, no one is actively preventing men from participating. However, you come from a way of thinking that men would be just like women. It's possible to passively shut a group of people out, by not giving them the right environment.

If I might interject something here, I find this to be true on Facebook groups I'm on, too. I am on several Twin Flames/Relationship-oriented groups, and for some reason most of the groups are either ALL women, or very few men. But, on other groups, such as religious or philosophical debate groups, or political debate groups, there is either a more equal number of men and women, or women are outnumbered. It would almost seem like men are reluctant to talk about what can become emotionally-charged topics about relationships, while women are using the forums to vent, cry, complain, seek sympathy and use such groups as support systems. Not all, of course, but a good share. I see it all the time, and at times have resorted to such displays myself.

I do agree with you, that if the right environment is not present, it could passively shut out a group of people.

[Luc]

Let me make the second (or maybe third) post by a man within this three page long discussion (a little illustration of the OP's point).
I often do not feel well understood in the forum. The answers are most of the time just people expressing themselves and most often not really addressing the question at hand (as we can see here once again). Yes, it helps to talk from time to time - I rather relax and forget -, but when I come here, I am looking to either get a solution or give a solution. I would feel better understood if there'd be a higher male participation, since this is also a way of thinking which is predominantly male.

No, no one is actively preventing men from participating. However, you come from a way of thinking that men would be just like women. It's possible to passively shut a group of people out, by not giving them the right environment.

I totally agree with Chill. This is also a pattern I see and a huge difference between men and women.

Men are problem solvers. When we have a problem, we want to fix it. We are practical creatures. Yes, we can be emotional, yes, we can be upset, but when we are, we want to fix it. Most of us want to fix it through logic, reasoning and practical solutions.

Women aren't like this. Women, when they have a problem, they want to talk about it. More specifically, they want to talk about their feelings. Their feelings are the most important thing to a woman from what I've seen. Women are emotional creatures, as opposed to us practical men. When a woman has a problem, at least half of the time that problem is related to an emotion (for example her SO said something that made her feel upset), and half of the time that problem can be fixed by simply appealing to her emotions, let her vent, understand her emotions, and cherish them, make her feel heard. Often, that is enough to help an upset woman.

When a man talks about his issues, he often talks about the facts and practical issues. He's often straight to the point and puts less emphasis on how he feels.

When a woman talks about her issues, she often talks about her emotions. She often talks with long emotionally loaded words and sentences. Her feelings and how this issue makes her feel are the most important thing.


I think this is an inherent difference between most men and women. This forum and the different way of communication that I see between the men and the women on here, shows that rather marvelously.

[Moon]

I totally agree with Chill. This is also a pattern I see and a huge difference between men and women.

Men are problem solvers. When we have a problem, we want to fix it. We are practical creatures. Yes, we can be emotional, yes, we can be upset, but when we are, we want to fix it. Most of us want to fix it through logic, reasoning and practical solutions.

Women aren't like this. Women, when they have a problem, they want to talk about it. More specifically, they want to talk about their feelings. Their feelings are the most important thing to a woman from what I've seen. Women are emotional creatures, as opposed to us practical men. When a woman has a problem, at least half of the time that problem can be fixed by simply appealing to her emotions, let her vent, understand her emotions, and cherish them, make her feel heard. Often, that is enough to help an upset woman.

When a man talks about his issues, he often talks about the facts and practical issues. He's often straight to the point and puts less emphasis on how he feels.

When a woman talks about her issues, she often talks about her emotions. She often talks with long emotionally loaded words and sentences. Her feelings and how this issue makes her feel are the most important thing.


I think this is an inherent difference between most men and women. This forum and the different way of communication that I see between the men and the women on here, shows that rather marvelously.

lol, I can say with a high degree of certainty, that at the ripe old age of 25, you still have a hell of a lot to learn about women

[Luc]

lol, I can say with a high degree of certainty, that at the ripe old age of 25, you still have a hell of a lot to learn about women

Age is just a number.

I know people who are older than me yet are more immature than me and have less life experience than me, and I know people who are younger than me yet more mature than me and have more life experience than me.

It's all about how you grew up and how much life experience you have.


No doubt I have a lot to learn about women, and I'll probably never stop learning. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. And I know that I don't know a lot of things. But I've been in plenty of relationships, and when I started to understand the basic concept of what I mentioned in my previous post, I've become more and more successful with my relationships. So yeah, go figure.

[Moon]

Age is just a number.

I know people who are older than me yet are more immature than me and have less life experience than me, and I know people who are younger than me yet more mature than me and have more life experience than me.

It's all about how you grew up and how much life experience you have.


No doubt I have a lot to learn about women, and I'll probably never stop learning. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. And I know that I don't know a lot of things. But I've been in plenty of relationships, and when I started to understand the basic concept of what I mentioned in my previous post, I've become more and more successful with my relationships. So yeah, go figure.

But...you're wrong in your assumptions. If you go into relationships thinking that's what all, or even most, women are like, you're going to get some very nasty surprises indeed. What you wrote stinks of chauvinism and misogyny, so much so that I really did laugh out loud about it. It sounds like something directly quoted from a MGTOW blog or forum (you didn't, did you?). When you lump half of the population into "Women aren't like this", it's funny, and also kind of sad to think there are guys like you who really believe that to be true. You are allowed to have your perspective here, and it is welcomed, but when it's felt that you're spouting nonsense, people will let you know.

[Luc]

But...you're wrong in your assumptions.

My personal experiences tell me differently. They tell me I'm very right in my assumptions.

If you go into relationships thinking that's what all, or even most, women are like, you're going to get some very nasty surprises indeed.

On the contrary, it actually has made my relationships longer and more successful.

What you wrote stinks of chauvinism and misogyny, so much so that I really did laugh out loud about it.

How so? I'm not diminishing women here. I'm not saying that you're worth less for being different. I don't get where the hell you get the idea from that I'm being chauvinistic or misogynistic.

It sounds like something directly quoted from a MGTOW blog or forum (you didn't, did you?). When you lump half of the population into "Women aren't like this", it's funny, and also kind of sad to think there are guys like you who really believe that to be true. You are allowed to have your perspective here, and it is welcomed, but when it's felt that you're spouting nonsense, people will let you know.

I assume you mean Men Going Their Own Way? No, it's not from there. To be honest I haven't even heard of that place before you mentioned here.

You are free to think I'm spouting nonsense, cause I know for a fact that I am not.

I find it rather beautiful how you actually proof my point right here right now. Just look at your own post and see how much it's filled with emotionally loaded words and sentences. Now compare it to my posts. Voilla, point proven.

[sarahjane1992]

I totally agree with Chill. This is also a pattern I see and a huge difference between men and women.

Men are problem solvers. When we have a problem, we want to fix it. We are practical creatures. Yes, we can be emotional, yes, we can be upset, but when we are, we want to fix it. Most of us want to fix it through logic, reasoning and practical solutions.

Women aren't like this. Women, when they have a problem, they want to talk about it. More specifically, they want to talk about their feelings. Their feelings are the most important thing to a woman from what I've seen. Women are emotional creatures, as opposed to us practical men. When a woman has a problem, at least half of the time that problem is related to an emotion (for example her SO said something that made her feel upset), and half of the time that problem can be fixed by simply appealing to her emotions, let her vent, understand her emotions, and cherish them, make her feel heard. Often, that is enough to help an upset woman.

When a man talks about his issues, he often talks about the facts and practical issues. He's often straight to the point and puts less emphasis on how he feels.

When a woman talks about her issues, she often talks about her emotions. She often talks with long emotionally loaded words and sentences. Her feelings and how this issue makes her feel are the most important thing.


I think this is an inherent difference between most men and women. This forum and the different way of communication that I see between the men and the women on here, shows that rather marvelously.

I agree with Moon. If you honestly believe women as a whole are like that, you are highly mistaken. Yes, we can be emotional and express our feelings. But so can a man. And I personally have a problem with your statement implying that women aren't logical and problem solvers. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I'm not capable of a logical thought. My SO is more logical and I can be more emotional. But there are many times where we switch roles.

Also, I'm curious as to what the long emotionally loaded words would be.

[Luc]

I agree with Moon. If you honestly believe women as a whole are like that, you are highly mistaken. Yes, we can be emotional and express our feelings. But so can a man. And I personally have a problem with your statement implying that women aren't logical and problem solvers. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I'm not capable of a logical thought. My SO is more logical and I can be more emotional. But there are many times where we switch roles.

Lets get one big misunderstanding out of the way here:

When I said men are logical and problem solvers and women are emotional, I was strictly speaking about fights and conflicts in relationships, not in general. I wasn't talking about everyday life, or career, or whatever, I was talking about relationships and having arguments/problems in your relationship.

When my SO has a problem with me, it's often because of something I said that made her feel in a certain negative way. When I was younger, I made the mistake by trying to explain logically and factually why I said the things I said. I thought that would make my SO understand me and that would fix it. It didn't. It only made her more upset because she felt I wasn't taking her feelings seriously. She felt misunderstood.

When I started to understand that her real issues where not WHAT said, but HOW I said it, I finally managed to solve arguments quickly and easily. Instead of trying to explain to her what I said (or what I was trying to say), I asked her about her feelings, why I made her feel upset and what words specifically made her feel upset. I would then apologize and ask her how I could express myself differently next time so she won't be upset. Understanding this made solving 90% of my arguments with my SO so much easier.