Open Invitation to Group for those whose SO is Taken by somebody else

[Hollandia]

I'm NOT OK with him deceiving her. As I said, I have tried to get him to tell her the truth, and it has caused many fights between us. But I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to. I have no control over him or his life.

I hope with all my heart, he does the right thing soon for all of you.

[Zephii]

I am willing to stand by AGG's right to have her group, to seek support and offer support. I can see how that kind of thing could, if used well, benefit people even those in honest committed relationships.
It's not that the community supports infidelity as such, but that we support individuals as they journey through their long distance relationships. We are not the moral police, but maybe by setting a good example and helping each other understand what constitutes a healthy relationship, we can aid people in discovering who they are, how their lives effect others and be there for them as they grow into better people.

Talking down to someone, telling them they are wrong and disgusting etc only makes them defensive. It generally is the most effective way to encourage someone to keep doing whatever it is you don't want them to be doing. They develop this "us against the world" mentality, and any hope of reaching them is lost. So if you actually want to make a change, if you want to see others make a change, rather than just venting your steam, you need to take a different tack.

With that said, this:

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

Is some offensive shit. AAG, don't go comparing yourself to the hate received by gay people or suggest that because they deserve support and a safe place you do to. No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Homosexual people are just every-day people. They haven't committed a crime. They love someone who has the same reproductive organs - and that person loves them back. There's no crime in that. No one is getting hurt. Gay people, never the less, are ridiculed and offered sub-standard rights. They are often the victims of physical abuse. They sometimes live in fear of said abuse and other discrimination, and it's sad that they should have to do so. They deserve protection. They deserve their way of life to be accepted as a variation of normal.

You, however, are doing something wrong. It's a fact, and you know it as well as I do. As you know I've been there, including the "with kids" part, and despite what other people have said here, the wife's knowing about the relationship didn't at all stop the hurt and disruption that was caused. I'm not going to get on a big white horse and prance about saying you're a horrible person or any of that, or that your love isn't valid. I will offer you an ear and support your rights, but you do have to own your shit, and I won't stand by while you insinuate that your relationship deserves the same status and protection as those who are prosecuted out of stupidity (because really, that's what homophobia is). You receive harsh judgement because you are hurting people. Willfully. Deliberately. Gay people aren't hurting anyone. See the difference?

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I am willing to stand by AGG's right to have her group, to seek support and offer support. I can see how that kind of thing could, if used well, benefit people even those in honest committed relationships.
It's not that the community supports infidelity as such, but that we support individuals as they journey through their long distance relationships. We are not the moral police, but maybe by setting a good example and helping each other understand what constitutes a healthy relationship, we can aid people in discovering who they are, how their lives effect others and be there for them as they grow into better people.

Talking down to someone, telling them they are wrong and disgusting etc only makes them defensive. It generally is the most effective way to encourage someone to keep doing whatever it is you don't want them to be doing. They develop this "us against the world" mentality, and any hope of reaching them is lost. So if you actually want to make a change, if you want to see others make a change, rather than just venting your steam, you need to take a different tack.

With that said, this:



Is some offensive shit. AAG, don't go comparing yourself to the hate received by gay people or suggest that because they deserve support and a safe place you do to. No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Homosexual people are just every-day people. They haven't committed a crime. They love someone who has the same reproductive organs - and that person loves them back. There's no crime in that. No one is getting hurt. Gay people, never the less, are ridiculed and offered sub-standard rights. They are often the victims of physical abuse. They sometimes live in fear of said abuse and other discrimination, and it's sad that they should have to do so. They deserve protection. They deserve their way of life to be accepted as a variation of normal.

You, however, are doing something wrong. It's a fact, and you know it as well as I do. As you know I've been there, including the "with kids" part, and despite what other people have said here, the wife's knowing about the relationship didn't at all stop the hurt and disruption that was caused. I'm not going to get on a big white horse and prance about saying you're a horrible person or any of that, or that your love isn't valid. I will offer you an ear and support your rights, but you do have to own your shit, and I won't stand by while you insinuate that your relationship deserves the same status and protection as those who are prosecuted out of stupidity (because really, that's what homophobia is). You receive harsh judgement because you are hurting people. Willfully. Deliberately. Gay people aren't hurting anyone. See the difference?

Ouch! That hurt. I am not trying to compare my situation with that of the gays, and I am actually FOR Gay Marriage, and for them having a normal life with equal rights, and without prejudice and persecution. It was just my observation that there are groups here for everybody on both ends of the spectrum, with the common thread that we are all involved, for better or worse, in the challenging, frustrating, and often painful and lonely realities of a LDR. So I thought maybe a group like the one I've started might also be needed.

[OperaDiva]

I want to make one thing clear. I was not trying to say that you do not have the right to make a group. What was insulting to me was that language that you used, the way you insult my morals and your subsequent comments have not been an improvements. This is what you say -

the challenges, frustrations and pain of being with someone

without judgment or criticism from those who don't understand, or have rigid moralistic viewpoints

It's hard enough loving someone who is far away, without the complications of your SO being with someone else. People who haven't faced this are often judgmental.

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

You continue to paint yourself as the victim, without acknowledging any of the pain that you yourself are causing. You flat out deny anybody that is against your choices and you criticise their morals ... this is not black and white, or a question of taste, what you are doing is wrong and you have taken no responsibility for that. Your SO's family is NOT a "complication" (this one still boggles me) and it is not being "judgemental" to say that you are hurting them. What is insulting is that you judge people who tell you that you are wrong. And you compare yourself to LGBTQ and poly people ... I don't even know what to say to that, it is beyond insulting.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I hope with all my heart, he does the right thing soon for all of you.

So do I. It is hurting both of us, even as I'm sure it is hurting her and the kids, too.

[ThePiedPiper]

Regardless of my personal opinions on the nature of the relationship...

Do you believe he's actually going to leave her? For years, you've been there to show him it doesn't matter. You're there whether he leaves her or doesn't. You're there whether he decides to keep you a secret or doesn't. You'll still be there when his family finds out, and hey, his wife may even want to try and make their marriage work, and my guess is you'll be there too. He likely won't leave her or ever be honest with her because as much as he can say he loves you, you've shown him that he does not need to respect that love, honour that love, or be there for you in the way you deserve someone to be there for you. The longer you show someone that you will take their beatings and worship them regardless, the longer they will accept your worship without giving you anything in kind. The power status of your relationship is warped, and it will only cause you a greater deal of pain down the road.

Secondly, what happens if he does leave her? Say he truly does love you and want to meet you, and so he ends up doing so and then decides to come clean and files for divorce. He goes through that process, enters a relationship with you, maybe even stays with you for a couple years and you both seem happy, but what happens when the next best thing comes along? Someone who does this for four consecutive years despite one party possibly knowing about the situation and the other party begging for him to be honest... Someone like that doesn't just meet "the one" and change their ways. It isn't like he cheated, regretted it horribly, made as many amends as possible, and vowed never to do it again. No, he's carrying on a long standing affair made easier by the fact he can keep one at a distance. You're there for sex, companionship, and maybe emotional support or flattery when his wife isn't available, and whether or not this marriage was screwed from the beginning, I can tell you that it doesn't all have to do with her. Yes, living a lie becomes harder to deal with and easier to continue the longer you keep it up, but at this point, I would argue that this is not so much a byproduct of him meeting you and falling madly in love. He will do it to you too, and that's if he leaves his wife.

I'm going to leave my personal opinions out of it because I feel strongly against cheating and know I am extremely unforgiving of it. It's also not comparable to LGBTQ relationships or to polyamorous relationships because, despite those relationships facing challenges, those relationships are consensual. This is like saying a 14-year-old in a relationship with a 50-year-old is no different to an 18-year-old with a 54-year-old; the simple fact of the matter is the former can't give consent and the latter can (age of consent varies, of course). Many unique situations and relationships considered "atypical" receive unfair judgments, but they aren't comparable to any relationship that is based on manipulation, deceit, withholding of information, and lack of consent. You and he are both consenting parties, but his wife and children are not, and that alone makes it incomparable to LGBTQ and polyamorous relationships. That aside, I also feel like people have said everything I could think to say beyond the two primary questions I've already brought up.

[merlinkitty]

If you don't like what she's doing, put her on ignore and move on. It's not right to call someone out publicly because they're in a relationship you don't agree with, THAT goes against what this forum is about.

This is a global forum, full of people with differing opinions and lifestyles, we won't always agree with everyone and their choices, and if there are those whose choices are offensive to you, ignore them. There is no need to get nasty about it. I don't think that differently than you do, but it's not up to me to police people's lives. Live and let live.

I've been on the fence about responding to what's been going on in this thread, and others as well and it seems to be really gaining strength over the last week. I really enjoy the differing opinions here. But I find it increasingly difficult to seek help for or communicate about controversial issues for fear of being attacked or judged for my opinions. This forum is very well regulated, sometimes overly so, but thing I've liked about it is how supportive everyone is. What I don't understand is why, when someone shows you their weakest place, people feel the need to lash out at that person?

It puts people like me, who have been in a similar position as AAG and have some understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, really reluctant to reach out to them for fear of being placed as a target in the threads. I don't want to argue with anyone over anything in this forum. That's not the reason I'm here. There have been posts here that I don't agree with and I skip over them. I don't place my moral judgments on a situation where I don't have a complete set of facts to articulate an opinion.

There is a reason that AAG is choosing to be in a relationship with a guy who is ripping her right and left. She's come here for some support and help only to be ripped up here as well. Whether or not you agree with her decision is a moot point. You're not going to change the world by standing on a moral soapbox here. All you're dong is tearing down and abusing a woman who's already being torn down and abused in her relationship.

Regardless if you agree with her language or not, can we try and not shut her down by throwing words around like "slut?" I'm not wild about AAG's relationship but not for the reasons you all have cited. I'm really uncomfortable with how he waffles with his promises, emotions, and contact and I don't like how that affects her. If she can form a group and have people who are in similar situations provide advice and support that will help her understand her worth, and perhaps ultimately convince her to find a situation that makes her happier than the one she's in, I'm all for it. She may not agree with me that I think she should look inside herself, see her value, and take back control of her situation, but at least I'm seeing her as a human being, which is what ever single last one of us on this forum are. Can we not afford her the same respect?

[talim]

What I don't understand is why, when someone shows you their weakest place, people feel the need to lash out at that person?

I can't rep you enough! Agree with you completely.

[kittyo9]

This thread is about the creation of a group, not about AAG's relationship itself. AAG is certainly entitled to make this group, regardless of anyone's moral conflicts with her personal choices. I see and understand the want/need for a group like this. I hope it provides you with a place where you feel comfortable talking about issues you might otherwise have kept quiet.

[Hollandia]

I've been on the fence about responding to what's been going on in this thread, and others as well and it seems to be really gaining strength over the last week. I really enjoy the differing opinions here. But I find it increasingly difficult to seek help for or communicate about controversial issues for fear of being attacked or judged for my opinions. This forum is very well regulated, sometimes overly so, but thing I've liked about it is how supportive everyone is. What I don't understand is why, when someone shows you their weakest place, people feel the need to lash out at that person?

It puts people like me, who have been in a similar position as AAG and have some understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, really reluctant to reach out to them for fear of being placed as a target in the threads. I don't want to argue with anyone over anything in this forum. That's not the reason I'm here. There have been posts here that I don't agree with and I skip over them. I don't place my moral judgments on a situation where I don't have a complete set of facts to articulate an opinion.

There is a reason that AAG is choosing to be in a relationship with a guy who is ripping her right and left. She's come here for some support and help only to be ripped up here as well. Whether or not you agree with her decision is a moot point. You're not going to change the world by standing on a moral soapbox here. All you're dong is tearing down and abusing a woman who's already being torn down and abused in her relationship.

Regardless if you agree with her language or not, can we try and not shut her down by throwing words around like "slut?" I'm not wild about AAG's relationship but not for the reasons you all have cited. I'm really uncomfortable with how he waffles with his promises, emotions, and contact and I don't like how that affects her. If she can form a group and have people who are in similar situations provide advice and support that will help her understand her worth, and perhaps ultimately convince her to find a situation that makes her happier than the one she's in, I'm all for it. She may not agree with me that I think she should look inside herself, see her value, and take back control of her situation, but at least I'm seeing her as a human being, which is what ever single last one of us on this forum are. Can we not afford her the same respect?

This is not directly pointed at the OP... For the record.

How about people like me? People that got cheated on and that should not have to hold back my opinions to placate someone that is cheating. I hate cheating. I won't hold that back. Where is my respect ?Nobody is abusing anyone. If you post on a forum you are going to hear opinions, some you like and some you don't.

This is ridiculous. Don't try to make anyone feel bad about not liking cheating. If you were in a situation where you knew someone was deceiving someone else, and hurting them, and you went along with it, then you made that bed and choose to lie it. The other person did not.

Nobody called her a slut. I told her a fact about my first husband's GF that he cheated on me with. SHE was a slut. She was sleeping with my husband behind my back and half her bar. I had no idea until later and I think I have quite a right to call her a slut since my husband was still sleeping with me at that time. She put me at risk for all the diseases that she could have gotten since I was unknowingly sharing my bed with him, her and all her fuc# buddies.

I also want to say, if you do bring up the subject then you open yourself up to hear other's opinions on that matter. I am tired of hearing about people not wanting to be judged or being afraid to open up, what about our rights to speak our minds? Should we sit back and shut up so that they can have their say and nobody says anything but what they want to hear. Sorry Charlie, that's not the way I roll. They made a group and can talk about it there without other's input. This here is an open board.

I was a wife and I was cheated on, had my health put at risk, and got humiliated in the end. I have every right to state my opinion on the matter if someone wants to try to give their side of being the mistress, jolly for them. Mistresses unite and speak your mind, Hoorah, but the wives still have just as much right to speak out too. Walk a mile in our shoes sometime and see how you like it. If there is deception going on and the other woman knows it then she is a part of it, how is not the one actually being cheated on not the victim? Would the mistress of victim of that tell them they need not to be judged to them? I did not sign on board to any unwritten rule to say I would pander in any way about my feelings on the matter. When my second marriage ended, I was upfront and honest with my Ex. Had I not have been, I would have been no better than the slut (not the OP but my first husband's GF) that was sleeping with my husband as I cooked his meals daily and cleaned his laundry sat home with his infant in between when we were going to church, hanging out with friends and family and living a basically normal family life, all the while she waited for him to come around and take him to her bed.

How about this, what is the line of what we should and should not be able to voice opinions about? Cheating is your list, what else is? Should we be okay with child molesters? They are people too, and I am sure they would like a place to vent without judgement also. They could be in LDRs, so does that afford them some rights because of being a member here? Should we be okay with someone that rapes someone else because they really loved them so much they could not help themselves? This is bullsh%t. Please don't tell me I am comparing cheating to child molestation either, I am making a point and it is loud and clear.

Have your say and enjoy it but don't get all self righteous with me since in the end you are sleeping with someone else's mate. This is not about anyone weakest place, you want to see that, then be the wife that gets cheated on and left with a toddler, mounting bills and having to start all over again and go through the utter humiliation of having to take a frakin AIDS test because of it. I was going to be done with this thread, but if you are going to start trying shame me into being quiet, you will fail. Anyone can say their point of the view on the subject and I will give mine right back. I can't sit back quiet because if I do it insinuates I am okay with it in the slightest way. I don't want to live in a society where we make allowances for such things. I want my partner to be faithful to me and I want to be faithful to him. I love him enough, as I did my second Ex, that if the marriage was not working anymore, I ended it. I want a society where everywhere treats their partners with that level of respect.

Lastly, Michelle is the only Admin here. Until she tells me there is some rule against speaking my mind on the matter, I shall do so. I also don't appreciate being lectured by a fellow poster not to do so. Your opinion is no more valid than mine. Some of you are okay with the cheating thing, and some of us are not. You have your say and others have theirs. You say this might hurt the OPs feelings but I will tell you in return how upsetting it is to me to hear people talking about the wives and children, like me and my daughter were, as obstacles. Quite frankly, You are representing the other woman and I was an obstacle. I am not going to bite my tongue over that.

[OperaDiva]

Hollandia put it really well. To add to that - if my morals are going to be questioned then I will defend them. And telling her she is doing something wrong, that she is hurting people is not judgement and it is not lashing out, it is the truth.
If AAG came here and said "I am doing something wrong, I need help and advice on how to get out" then sympathy and support would be all she would get from me, but that is not the case.
I believe being the other woman, hurting another woman and her children in this way is plain wrong; painting yourself as the victim is deluded to say the least; calling that woman and her children "obstacles" makes me sick to my stomach; and comparing yourself to LGBTQ and polyamorous people in honest, committed relationships is insulting. And as has already been pointed out, we all have the right to our opinions and values, as well as the right to express them freely on this forum.

[80anthea]

I agree with Hollandia and OperaDiva. I have no objection to you starting a group or even mentioning the group here for people to join. My issue all along has been the language you've used, for someone who has been 'the complication' it is hurtful.

[merlinkitty]

I will let you in on my past history to help you understand where I'm coming from in my comments. The majority of my adult life I've been cheated on. It was all in the open and in my face. I was aware of it all. And it was something I felt that I deserved because I have massive self-esteem issues. Because I was able to find someone who supported me, I was able to acknowledge my own self-worth and am in a much happier and positive place in my life. I don't like to see anyone being hurt for any reason, including you, Hollandia & OperaDiva.

I hope you can understand that I'm not here to defend cheating. It's my personal belief that poly relationships are perfectly acceptable so long as all parties are aware of what's going on. This is not the case in AAG's relationship, which is why I think it is particularly important that she receive some support. I'm really not trying to offend anyone in this tread so I apologize if I have. I just don't think it's very constructive to turn her post on a group creation (issues with the language or not) into a venting ground for all of our past hurts. I hope that makes some sense.

Best wishes.

[Hollandia]

I will let you in on my past history to help you understand where I'm coming from in my comments. The majority of my adult life I've been cheated on. It was all in the open and in my face. I was aware of it all. And it was something I felt that I deserved because I have massive self-esteem issues. Because I was able to find someone who supported me, I was able to acknowledge my own self-worth and am in a much happier and positive place in my life. I don't like to see anyone being hurt for any reason, including you, Hollandia & OperaDiva.

I hope you can understand that I'm not here to defend cheating. It's my personal belief that poly relationships are perfectly acceptable so long as all parties are aware of what's going on. This is not the case in AAG's relationship, which is why I think it is particularly important that she receive some support. I'm really not trying to offend anyone in this tread so I apologize if I have. I just don't think it's very constructive to turn her post on a group creation (issues with the language or not) into a venting ground for all of our past hurts. I hope that makes some sense.

Best wishes.

I'm confused. I don't think her SO's partner is aware. Did I miss something? I asked her if she was aware and I think she said she was not. My whole point is if the spouse is not aware. If the spouse is aware, it becomes more about, why not just file the papers and not about deception. I also brought up whether or not they are still sleeping with their spouse without their knowledge of sleeping with someone else.

[merlinkitty]

As far as I understand, AAG has not met her SO, who is hiding her from his family. There is no physical interaction between them, but still there is the emotional manipulation, which he's engaging in that concerns me. I don't care for how he's handling the situation, either with his wife, children, or AAG. I don't really feel comfortable commenting on her situation, since it's not mine, but that was my understanding from what she's said in the past.