Open Invitation to Group for those whose SO is Taken by somebody else

[merlinkitty]

If you don't like what she's doing, put her on ignore and move on. It's not right to call someone out publicly because they're in a relationship you don't agree with, THAT goes against what this forum is about.

This is a global forum, full of people with differing opinions and lifestyles, we won't always agree with everyone and their choices, and if there are those whose choices are offensive to you, ignore them. There is no need to get nasty about it. I don't think that differently than you do, but it's not up to me to police people's lives. Live and let live.

I've been on the fence about responding to what's been going on in this thread, and others as well and it seems to be really gaining strength over the last week. I really enjoy the differing opinions here. But I find it increasingly difficult to seek help for or communicate about controversial issues for fear of being attacked or judged for my opinions. This forum is very well regulated, sometimes overly so, but thing I've liked about it is how supportive everyone is. What I don't understand is why, when someone shows you their weakest place, people feel the need to lash out at that person?

It puts people like me, who have been in a similar position as AAG and have some understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, really reluctant to reach out to them for fear of being placed as a target in the threads. I don't want to argue with anyone over anything in this forum. That's not the reason I'm here. There have been posts here that I don't agree with and I skip over them. I don't place my moral judgments on a situation where I don't have a complete set of facts to articulate an opinion.

There is a reason that AAG is choosing to be in a relationship with a guy who is ripping her right and left. She's come here for some support and help only to be ripped up here as well. Whether or not you agree with her decision is a moot point. You're not going to change the world by standing on a moral soapbox here. All you're dong is tearing down and abusing a woman who's already being torn down and abused in her relationship.

Regardless if you agree with her language or not, can we try and not shut her down by throwing words around like "slut?" I'm not wild about AAG's relationship but not for the reasons you all have cited. I'm really uncomfortable with how he waffles with his promises, emotions, and contact and I don't like how that affects her. If she can form a group and have people who are in similar situations provide advice and support that will help her understand her worth, and perhaps ultimately convince her to find a situation that makes her happier than the one she's in, I'm all for it. She may not agree with me that I think she should look inside herself, see her value, and take back control of her situation, but at least I'm seeing her as a human being, which is what ever single last one of us on this forum are. Can we not afford her the same respect?

[ThePiedPiper]

Regardless of my personal opinions on the nature of the relationship...

Do you believe he's actually going to leave her? For years, you've been there to show him it doesn't matter. You're there whether he leaves her or doesn't. You're there whether he decides to keep you a secret or doesn't. You'll still be there when his family finds out, and hey, his wife may even want to try and make their marriage work, and my guess is you'll be there too. He likely won't leave her or ever be honest with her because as much as he can say he loves you, you've shown him that he does not need to respect that love, honour that love, or be there for you in the way you deserve someone to be there for you. The longer you show someone that you will take their beatings and worship them regardless, the longer they will accept your worship without giving you anything in kind. The power status of your relationship is warped, and it will only cause you a greater deal of pain down the road.

Secondly, what happens if he does leave her? Say he truly does love you and want to meet you, and so he ends up doing so and then decides to come clean and files for divorce. He goes through that process, enters a relationship with you, maybe even stays with you for a couple years and you both seem happy, but what happens when the next best thing comes along? Someone who does this for four consecutive years despite one party possibly knowing about the situation and the other party begging for him to be honest... Someone like that doesn't just meet "the one" and change their ways. It isn't like he cheated, regretted it horribly, made as many amends as possible, and vowed never to do it again. No, he's carrying on a long standing affair made easier by the fact he can keep one at a distance. You're there for sex, companionship, and maybe emotional support or flattery when his wife isn't available, and whether or not this marriage was screwed from the beginning, I can tell you that it doesn't all have to do with her. Yes, living a lie becomes harder to deal with and easier to continue the longer you keep it up, but at this point, I would argue that this is not so much a byproduct of him meeting you and falling madly in love. He will do it to you too, and that's if he leaves his wife.

I'm going to leave my personal opinions out of it because I feel strongly against cheating and know I am extremely unforgiving of it. It's also not comparable to LGBTQ relationships or to polyamorous relationships because, despite those relationships facing challenges, those relationships are consensual. This is like saying a 14-year-old in a relationship with a 50-year-old is no different to an 18-year-old with a 54-year-old; the simple fact of the matter is the former can't give consent and the latter can (age of consent varies, of course). Many unique situations and relationships considered "atypical" receive unfair judgments, but they aren't comparable to any relationship that is based on manipulation, deceit, withholding of information, and lack of consent. You and he are both consenting parties, but his wife and children are not, and that alone makes it incomparable to LGBTQ and polyamorous relationships. That aside, I also feel like people have said everything I could think to say beyond the two primary questions I've already brought up.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I hope with all my heart, he does the right thing soon for all of you.

So do I. It is hurting both of us, even as I'm sure it is hurting her and the kids, too.

[OperaDiva]

I want to make one thing clear. I was not trying to say that you do not have the right to make a group. What was insulting to me was that language that you used, the way you insult my morals and your subsequent comments have not been an improvements. This is what you say -

the challenges, frustrations and pain of being with someone

without judgment or criticism from those who don't understand, or have rigid moralistic viewpoints

It's hard enough loving someone who is far away, without the complications of your SO being with someone else. People who haven't faced this are often judgmental.

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

You continue to paint yourself as the victim, without acknowledging any of the pain that you yourself are causing. You flat out deny anybody that is against your choices and you criticise their morals ... this is not black and white, or a question of taste, what you are doing is wrong and you have taken no responsibility for that. Your SO's family is NOT a "complication" (this one still boggles me) and it is not being "judgemental" to say that you are hurting them. What is insulting is that you judge people who tell you that you are wrong. And you compare yourself to LGBTQ and poly people ... I don't even know what to say to that, it is beyond insulting.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I am willing to stand by AGG's right to have her group, to seek support and offer support. I can see how that kind of thing could, if used well, benefit people even those in honest committed relationships.
It's not that the community supports infidelity as such, but that we support individuals as they journey through their long distance relationships. We are not the moral police, but maybe by setting a good example and helping each other understand what constitutes a healthy relationship, we can aid people in discovering who they are, how their lives effect others and be there for them as they grow into better people.

Talking down to someone, telling them they are wrong and disgusting etc only makes them defensive. It generally is the most effective way to encourage someone to keep doing whatever it is you don't want them to be doing. They develop this "us against the world" mentality, and any hope of reaching them is lost. So if you actually want to make a change, if you want to see others make a change, rather than just venting your steam, you need to take a different tack.

With that said, this:



Is some offensive shit. AAG, don't go comparing yourself to the hate received by gay people or suggest that because they deserve support and a safe place you do to. No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Homosexual people are just every-day people. They haven't committed a crime. They love someone who has the same reproductive organs - and that person loves them back. There's no crime in that. No one is getting hurt. Gay people, never the less, are ridiculed and offered sub-standard rights. They are often the victims of physical abuse. They sometimes live in fear of said abuse and other discrimination, and it's sad that they should have to do so. They deserve protection. They deserve their way of life to be accepted as a variation of normal.

You, however, are doing something wrong. It's a fact, and you know it as well as I do. As you know I've been there, including the "with kids" part, and despite what other people have said here, the wife's knowing about the relationship didn't at all stop the hurt and disruption that was caused. I'm not going to get on a big white horse and prance about saying you're a horrible person or any of that, or that your love isn't valid. I will offer you an ear and support your rights, but you do have to own your shit, and I won't stand by while you insinuate that your relationship deserves the same status and protection as those who are prosecuted out of stupidity (because really, that's what homophobia is). You receive harsh judgement because you are hurting people. Willfully. Deliberately. Gay people aren't hurting anyone. See the difference?

Ouch! That hurt. I am not trying to compare my situation with that of the gays, and I am actually FOR Gay Marriage, and for them having a normal life with equal rights, and without prejudice and persecution. It was just my observation that there are groups here for everybody on both ends of the spectrum, with the common thread that we are all involved, for better or worse, in the challenging, frustrating, and often painful and lonely realities of a LDR. So I thought maybe a group like the one I've started might also be needed.

[Zephii]

I am willing to stand by AGG's right to have her group, to seek support and offer support. I can see how that kind of thing could, if used well, benefit people even those in honest committed relationships.
It's not that the community supports infidelity as such, but that we support individuals as they journey through their long distance relationships. We are not the moral police, but maybe by setting a good example and helping each other understand what constitutes a healthy relationship, we can aid people in discovering who they are, how their lives effect others and be there for them as they grow into better people.

Talking down to someone, telling them they are wrong and disgusting etc only makes them defensive. It generally is the most effective way to encourage someone to keep doing whatever it is you don't want them to be doing. They develop this "us against the world" mentality, and any hope of reaching them is lost. So if you actually want to make a change, if you want to see others make a change, rather than just venting your steam, you need to take a different tack.

With that said, this:

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

Is some offensive shit. AAG, don't go comparing yourself to the hate received by gay people or suggest that because they deserve support and a safe place you do to. No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Homosexual people are just every-day people. They haven't committed a crime. They love someone who has the same reproductive organs - and that person loves them back. There's no crime in that. No one is getting hurt. Gay people, never the less, are ridiculed and offered sub-standard rights. They are often the victims of physical abuse. They sometimes live in fear of said abuse and other discrimination, and it's sad that they should have to do so. They deserve protection. They deserve their way of life to be accepted as a variation of normal.

You, however, are doing something wrong. It's a fact, and you know it as well as I do. As you know I've been there, including the "with kids" part, and despite what other people have said here, the wife's knowing about the relationship didn't at all stop the hurt and disruption that was caused. I'm not going to get on a big white horse and prance about saying you're a horrible person or any of that, or that your love isn't valid. I will offer you an ear and support your rights, but you do have to own your shit, and I won't stand by while you insinuate that your relationship deserves the same status and protection as those who are prosecuted out of stupidity (because really, that's what homophobia is). You receive harsh judgement because you are hurting people. Willfully. Deliberately. Gay people aren't hurting anyone. See the difference?

[Hollandia]

I'm NOT OK with him deceiving her. As I said, I have tried to get him to tell her the truth, and it has caused many fights between us. But I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to. I have no control over him or his life.

I hope with all my heart, he does the right thing soon for all of you.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I am not saying you are, but my Ex's GF was. I can't fathom any reason that it would okay for him to not tell his wife about it if his relationship with her is done. It comes down to deception for me. If she is being deceived then he is willing to be deceptive. I could never have done that to my last husband so I ended it, I had massive financial bounds, a business together, a child together, and a whole morality thing with friends and family. I lost a ton of friends over it, and he was abusive, but I still did not deceive him. I told him the truth.

I just cannot fathom a reason why it is ever okay to remain with one person while seeing another behind their back. They deserve to know that you don't want this relationship anymore. I wonder how that woman would have ever felt if she had actually met me? I am a good, friendly, loving person. If she met me in a bar, i probably would have chatted with her in the ladies room and never known she was frakin my husband. If you found out his spouse was a good kind person and you met her, would you still be okay with him deceiving her?

Again, if you don't wish to discuss it, then don't respond on open boards, I only bring it up here because it is the topic of this thread. The whole, you opened that can of worms kinda thing for me....

I'm NOT OK with him deceiving her. As I said, I have tried to get him to tell her the truth, and it has caused many fights between us. But I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to. I have no control over him or his life.

[Hollandia]

I'm not a slut or a whore. I'm not sleeping around with anyone. I am completely faithful in this relationship. I wish he would be honest, and tell his wife about us. I have told him that time after time, but he'd rather keep us a secret, as if I don't exist. And, as careless as he is sometimes, I think he is pretty dumb or naive to think his family won't figure things out, or maybe has already. Yet, he says he loves me, and he talks about wanting to meet and be with me. And I'm naive enough to believe him.

I am not saying you are, but my Ex's GF was. I can't fathom any reason that it would okay for him to not tell his wife about it if his relationship with her is done. It comes down to deception for me. If she is being deceived then he is willing to be deceptive. I could never have done that to my last husband so I ended it, I had massive financial bounds, a business together, a child together, and a whole morality thing with friends and family. I lost a ton of friends over it, and he was abusive, but I still did not deceive him. I told him the truth.

I just cannot fathom a reason why it is ever okay to remain with one person while seeing another behind their back. They deserve to know that you don't want this relationship anymore. I wonder how that woman would have ever felt if she had actually met me? I am a good, friendly, loving person. If she met me in a bar, i probably would have chatted with her in the ladies room and never known she was frakin my husband. If you found out his spouse was a good kind person and you met her, would you still be okay with him deceiving her?

Again, if you don't wish to discuss it, then don't respond on open boards, I only bring it up here because it is the topic of this thread. The whole, you opened that can of worms kinda thing for me....

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I have to agree on both counts.

You guys are entitled to create a group and discuss at will there. I do find some comments about not "having to be judged" a bit condescending to those of us that value faithfulness in a relationship. I ended mine before I started a new one but was still married legally, so a sticky wicket, but when you start talking about how "love knows no bounds and if the marriage was strong enough to begin with" then I kinda get a bit sick to my stomach........................I had NO idea my husband was cheating on me, we still had an active sex life and he showed no signs of being so unhappy. He just decided one day he wanted to fuck around. The fact that there was an infant in the next room, meant nothing to him or her, nor did lying to our friends, our families or anything else. I found out and was devastated and humiliated. What the frak did I do to deserve that? What makes you think his "love" for her superceeded my right to be treated with respect and him just being honest? He was just a coward and he was enjoying fu#king us both, and having his cake and eating through his lying lowlife scumwad teeth.

I also mentioned that she was a slut sleeping around her bar and fraking my husband at the time, all the while he came home to me most nights and had sex. I am lucky I did not get AIDS and die. No, cheating is wrong and if on an open board and you ask my opinion, I will repeat that, but yes, you guys want a place to vent then enjoy, I won't join the group or put in my two cents. Just don't come on here and hope for anyone to feel sorry for you since some have stated how weary they are of having to defend themselves. No Offense, but don't put yourself in that situation if you are not prepared for the heat of that kitchen.

I get life is not all boxes and all that, but there is right and there is wrong and deep down, you all know which side of that line you are falling on. Right or Wrong.

I'm not a slut or a whore. I'm not sleeping around with anyone. I am completely faithful in this relationship. I wish he would be honest, and tell his wife about us. I have told him that time after time, but he'd rather keep us a secret, as if I don't exist. And, as careless as he is sometimes, I think he is pretty dumb or naive to think his family won't figure things out, or maybe has already. Yet, he says he loves me, and he talks about wanting to meet and be with me. And I'm naive enough to believe him.

[Hollandia]

Like Moon, I think you are entitled to start a group, no-one can stop that, but also like OperaDiva I am incredibly uncomfortable with some of the language being used.

If EVERYONE in the relationship is happy with the situation and it's all out in the open in a polyamorous way then I have no problem with someone having multiple partners. I accept that human sexuality is a vast spectrum. However I do have a problem when people are deliberately deceiving others and using children as an excuse. Whether you like it or not, people are getting hurt in these kind of relationships. Now it is your personal choice whether to be in it but please don't hunt sympathy.

I have to agree on both counts.

You guys are entitled to create a group and discuss at will there. I do find some comments about not "having to be judged" a bit condescending to those of us that value faithfulness in a relationship. I ended mine before I started a new one but was still married legally, so a sticky wicket, but when you start talking about how "love knows no bounds and if the marriage was strong enough to begin with" then I kinda get a bit sick to my stomach........................I had NO idea my husband was cheating on me, we still had an active sex life and he showed no signs of being so unhappy. He just decided one day he wanted to fuck around. The fact that there was an infant in the next room, meant nothing to him or her, nor did lying to our friends, our families or anything else. I found out and was devastated and humiliated. What the frak did I do to deserve that? What makes you think his "love" for her superceeded my right to be treated with respect and him just being honest? He was just a coward and he was enjoying fu#king us both, and having his cake and eating through his lying lowlife scumwad teeth.

I also mentioned that she was a slut sleeping around her bar and fraking my husband at the time, all the while he came home to me most nights and had sex. I am lucky I did not get AIDS and die. No, cheating is wrong and if on an open board and you ask my opinion, I will repeat that, but yes, you guys want a place to vent then enjoy, I won't join the group or put in my two cents. Just don't come on here and hope for anyone to feel sorry for you since some have stated how weary they are of having to defend themselves. No Offense, but don't put yourself in that situation if you are not prepared for the heat of that kitchen.

I get life is not all boxes and all that, but there is right and there is wrong and deep down, you all know which side of that line you are falling on. Right or Wrong.

[80anthea]

And this is exactly why I felt that a group like mine might be a valid idea. I'm not the only one who is faced with these problems, and has these same doubts, fears and confusions. I was not the one who "came out" first. But I saw that others besides me need a safe place to talk and try to find answers. I tried to keep my situation under wraps so I wouldn't offend others, and so I wouldn't be judged as harshly as I feel judged now.

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

Please don't leave the forums on account of me. If you don't like my lifestyle, then don't friend me, ignore my posts, and don't bother with my group. I'm sorry that, apparently, just my existence offends you, but I have a right to be here, too. And I have tried to support everyone, any way I can.

I think the difference is that in LGBT, Poly and other groups there isn't an innocent partner/children being deceived. You have to bear in mind that many of us on here have been the faithful partner/child of a lying cheat and we've been the one who has been hurt, that hurt takes a lot of time to heal and can create enormous trust issues years down the line.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

I don't judge you on your personal choices, nor do I judge other people on their choices, but I do not agree with wanting to have more people cheat on their partners, throwing it into the faces of monogamous people as if being with one partner and staying loyal is "having rigid moralistic viewpoints".

I'm not encouraging more people to cheat on their partners. Happy people don't cheat. So this shouldn't be a threat to those who have good marriages. This group I've started is for those who are already in the situation.

[AussieAmericanGirl66]

Your posts from the past few weeks have made me so angry that I considered leaving the forum. And I still might do just that, but not before I told you how I feel. The fact that you call somebody's family a “complication” for your affair is beyond appalling. A family, with children, is not something secondary to your desires and ego, and the fact that you consider and paint yourself as a victim is beyond immoral.

To be clear, this is not “rigid morals”, this is a statement of fact – you are willingly and continuously (for 4 years!) aiding the destruction and undermining of somebody's family. You choose, day after day, for years, to participate in a lie that goes against commitment and the health and happiness of children. Don't get me wrong, he is guilty, he is a lier and a manipulator, but so are you. The worst part is that you don't even realise what you are doing, you don't even realize how you are hurting so many people, just because it makes you feel better. As a matter of fact I put myself in a similar situation (there were no kids though) for about 2 weeks, but I was 21, and I got out as soon as I understood the consequences of my actions. You are even hurting yourself, by making excuses for whatever crappy treatment he gives you because he strokes your ego and you feel good in the short moments you are together in some fashion. Regardless of your “twin flames theory”, there is no excuse in the world for willingly hurting other human beings by lying and manipulating, and there is no love to be found with a man that blames you for him being married. If he wanted to be with you and spare the feelings of his wife and kids then he would not be lying to them. I am not going to analyse your obviously poor self-esteem because this is not what makes me angry.

The thing that insults me for real is that you are flaunting your choices, as if there is any excuse or morality in what you are doing. You look for commiseration, you create a group, as if there is any wisdom or goodness to be found by legitimizing affairs. I joined this forum because it is clean, because there is compassion and because there is honesty. But your group and your statements insult my morals and I will not accepts this with silence or maybe even by staying here. If your so-called “group” grows or if there is any defense of you I will certainly leave because I do not want to be part of a community that condones this sort of behavior, even with its silence. There is, after all, one of the things that is black and white for me - I do not want to be a part of a group that condones and accepts cheating, lying and hurting other people, especially children.

And this is exactly why I felt that a group like mine might be a valid idea. I'm not the only one who is faced with these problems, and has these same doubts, fears and confusions. I was not the one who "came out" first. But I saw that others besides me need a safe place to talk and try to find answers. I tried to keep my situation under wraps so I wouldn't offend others, and so I wouldn't be judged as harshly as I feel judged now.

Some people also judge polyamory and LGBT relationships. I notice there are groups for them. So I thought it would be OK to have a group for this, too.

Please don't leave the forums on account of me. If you don't like my lifestyle, then don't friend me, ignore my posts, and don't bother with my group. I'm sorry that, apparently, just my existence offends you, but I have a right to be here, too. And I have tried to support everyone, any way I can.

[80anthea]

Like Moon, I think you are entitled to start a group, no-one can stop that, but also like OperaDiva I am incredibly uncomfortable with some of the language being used.

If EVERYONE in the relationship is happy with the situation and it's all out in the open in a polyamorous way then I have no problem with someone having multiple partners. I accept that human sexuality is a vast spectrum. However I do have a problem when people are deliberately deceiving others and using children as an excuse. Whether you like it or not, people are getting hurt in these kind of relationships. Now it is your personal choice whether to be in it but please don't hunt sympathy.