Love vs Dreams

[Cristiana]

Well I don't know how you plan to live and work in the USA. You can't just go over and decide to live there.

Basically, you're thinking WAY too far ahead. Live in the moment. You're 17. Worry about buying houses in another 10 years or so. Also, just noticed that your relationship is only 3 months old. Slow things down a little bit girl.

Sometimes I wish I could make disappear my age because it is against me when it comes to talk with people. Im 17 so everyone thinks all I have to do is going to school, making friends, studying, living day by day. But Im not like this, at all. I have my mind on my future and even tho I know it's wrong for some reasons, Im like this and I kinda like it.
I dont want to think about buying houses when I'll be almost 30, I plan to settle on my own in few years after I'll be done with school.
And I know that my relationship is 3 months old, but time in certain situations means nothing. Not for us.

If you are really sure that America is where you want to be, you have to focus your future studies into something that will give you a chance at a residency visa of some sort. The reality of it is being a tattoo artist will not get you in here, there's just no way, I'm sorry hon America is probably the most difficult country in the world to move to legally, your only chance is to marry an American, study here, or have a skill that's extremely desirable. By that I mean something in engineering, technology, some sciences or mathematics.

I know it's hard, I made a lot of research and I was discouraged when I read all the processes. But it didnt make me change idea.. Even because both my cousin and the aunt of my sister's boyfriend moved there, in fact I want to talk about it with them to know how they made it through.

But yeah, I'd say make sure to thoroughly do your research. After having lived in Europe for awhile, there are times when I find the US extremely suffocating politically and sometimes socially, in terms of our struggles to move past religious/conservative laws and stigmas.

You'll be coming from somewhere with universal health care (I think?), regular public transportation in many areas, longer vacations, better maternity leave, etc.

You're right about this, even if universal health care is limited, for ex. most hospitals are public but the waiting list can make you wait years. And anyway you have to pay if you want to do any visit, and even a lot sometimes.

Do you have a concept of where in the US you're thinking you'd want to live?

Somewhere in northeast, if not New York (does having a family member there help me someway?)

[whatruckus]

Sometimes I wish I could make disappear my age because it is against me when it comes to talk with people. Im 17 so everyone thinks all I have to do is going to school, making friends, studying, living day by day. But Im not like this, at all. I have my mind on my future and even tho I know it's wrong for some reasons, Im like this and I kinda like it.
I dont want to think about buying houses when I'll be almost 30, I plan to settle on my own in few years after I'll be done with school.
And I know that my relationship is 3 months old, but time in certain situations means nothing. Not for us.




I know it's hard, I made a lot of research and I was discouraged when I read all the processes. But it didnt make me change idea.. Even because both my cousin and the aunt of my sister's boyfriend moved there, in fact I want to talk about it with them to know how they made it through.

We keep bringing up the age thing because, even if you moved here within the next couple years, that'll be against you here. You say that you don't want to be 30 when you're buying houses, but here, in our economy, that's the norm nowadays. Almost all of my friends still live with their parents, or can only afford to rent apartments because the economy sucks. I have friends who have high degrees and are still struggling to find a job. While most people think living in America is so glamorous and amazing (yea, maybe it kind of is), the fact of the matter is that it's pretty damn hard to make it on your own when you don't have much to fall back on. I agree with everyone else. If you do want to move here, like someone said, being a tattoo artist isn't going to get you very far unless you're great at what you do (Kat Von D, or something) and/or you have connections. Pretty much the only thing that's really always going to be a desirable career is anything in healthcare. The minimum wage is not enough to support someone alone financially. Plus the healthcare system is crap. Absolutely terrible. Even with Obamacare trying to help.

You would need to consider exactly what type of area you're looking for and want to live in. We have suburban towns, farming towns, cities, outskirts of cities (in between suburban and city life). What state do you want to live in, because some states are more expensive to live in (NJ for example is one of the most expensive), which town you want to live in (because some are more expensive).

I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, but you need to be realistic about this decision and make sure you have the finances and fall back plan in order to do so. I don't mind living in the US (born and raised), while my SO (also born and raised here) wouldn't mind moving out and moving to Amsterdam (for some reason he's set on Amsterdam) or something.

What part of NY is your cousin living in? NY is a big state and there's a biggg difference between living on the islands (Manhattan (NYC), Long Island, etc) and living upstate (Buffalo, Ithaca, etc). I could probably gauge what you would have to deal with since I live in the area.

Also, I live in one of the wealthier areas in NJ (houses worth over a million dollars, and that's the norm). Essex/Morris county, and like I said, even my friends still live with their parents because they can't afford to move, plus some of them even have great jobs but still live at home. To give you an idea of how hard it can be, not that it is definitely hard and you can't do it, but it's still hard. I'm telling you this in case you wanted to live around this area, being that your cousin live in NY. Which NY is also another (super) expensive state to live in.

[Dziubka]

Agreed!

It's OK to have a dream, and it's great to work toward achieving it. If you are really sure that America is where you want to be, you have to focus your future studies into something that will give you a chance at a residency visa of some sort. The reality of it is being a tattoo artist will not get you in here, there's just no way, I'm sorry hon America is probably the most difficult country in the world to move to legally, your only chance is to marry an American, study here, or have a skill that's extremely desirable. By that I mean something in engineering, technology, some sciences or mathematics.

I promise I'm not trying to discourage you, but to give you the information you'll need to realistically work towards coming here. You are very young, and in a new relationship. Go to school, get well educated in a STEM field, make that your goal, and you might actually be able to make that dream a reality. Don't let your boyfriend discourage you, work toward your future for now, it's what you should be doing, and in 6-ish years (You'll probably need at least a Master's) you'll be ready for the rest of your life. Getting here will be HARD, but you can do it, if you really want to.

Listen to the wise lady!
I don't think your age plays that much into it, I would give the same advice if you were 27.

If your dream is living in the US, then by all means go for it. You say you have your mind on your future, so do everything you can to make that future happen.
Research your options of getting in the US, decide which one is the most feasible and pursue it. Having just finished high school is a good starting point actually. University is free in Europe - make the most of that and get an education that will allow you to move to the US. Do internships in the US during your studies.
Figure out how much it would cost you to even have a holiday home in the US and go over regularly. Then find a career path, that'll help you make that amount of money.

I would not take your SO into consideration. Not because I want you to break up or think you should or whatever, but because I think pursuing your own dreams is always more important than your relationship. If you give up on your dreams for your partner, you'll end up holding it against them. Also if he doesn't have the same dreams or your dreams are incompatible with his, then you're just not a good fit. It sounds incredibly trite: But if they love you, they want to see you happy.

I had two long-ish (+/- 2yrs) relationships before I met my (now) husband. Both relationships were very good, my exes are really decent and loveable people and for most of the time I was very happy. Both of them knew when the relationships started, that I wanted to go abroad, that I wasn't settled and wasn't going to settle for some time and both were ok with it, until I actually wanted to put my plans into reality. As sad as it was to break up, I'm glad I followed my dreams. (God, that sounds terribly corny. Sorry.) Because if I wouldn't, I'm 100% sure I would have ended resenting them for holding me back.

[Moon]

Sometimes I wish I could make disappear my age because it is against me when it comes to talk with people. Im 17 so everyone thinks all I have to do is going to school, making friends, studying, living day by day. But Im not like this, at all. I have my mind on my future and even tho I know it's wrong for some reasons, Im like this and I kinda like it.
I dont want to think about buying houses when I'll be almost 30, I plan to settle on my own in few years after I'll be done with school.
And I know that my relationship is 3 months old, but time in certain situations means nothing. Not for us.

People bring up your age because it's an important factor in your situation It both works for you and against you. At 17, even the most mature 17 in the world, you simply don't yet have the life experience and wisdom you need to get you through life yet, you haven't lived long enough and haven't had enough time on your own to learn important life lessons. I know you think you have, everyone does, which is normal, but that's where we come in. Everyone has different experiences and wisdom to share, pay attention to it, and it'll make life easier for you. Why not absorb knowledge from those who are older, so you don't have to make a mess of things yourself? Listen to how we got out of a mess, or dealt with a particular situation, or learned from our own long-term LDR's even, and it'll make it smoother for you.

At 17, you're fortunate enough to just be starting out. You get to choose your own destiny at this point, you have no real responsibilities like a mortgage, kids, husband, aging parents, or any of the other things that will keep you stuck somewhere. You haven't been knocked around so much that you're looking at the world with cynical and jaded eyes. Your options are completely open, and it's totally up to you to work toward doing what you want. That's the great part of being 17.

Don't be offended when people reference your age, advice is adjusted accordingly to be appropriate for you, it's not a disadvantage. Yes, I'd give different advice to someone who's 30, and that's the point, and it's a good thing, trust me.

All people are saying is that you probably don't quite understand exactly how hard it is, or what you'll need to consider because you've never had to do that yet. We're trying to tell you what you need to figure out. It isn't insulting, it's helpful You might not like it, but that's OK, as long as you learn something. Learning is good for all of us, regardless if we're 17 or 44!

[Moon]

I would not take your SO into consideration. Not because I want you to break up or think you should or whatever, but because I think pursuing your own dreams is always more important than your relationship. If you give up on your dreams for your partner, you'll end up holding it against them. Also if he doesn't have the same dreams or your dreams are incompatible with his, then you're just not a good fit. It sounds incredibly trite: But if they love you, they want to see you happy.

Dziu is right about everything, but especially this. I'm not sure anyone else could say it better, these are very, very important things to consider. Never, ever give up on your dreams for a boyfriend, I promise that you'll regret it forever.

[silvermoonfairy3]

Sometimes I wish I could make disappear my age because it is against me when it comes to talk with people. Im 17 so everyone thinks all I have to do is going to school, making friends, studying, living day by day. But Im not like this, at all. I have my mind on my future and even tho I know it's wrong for some reasons, Im like this and I kinda like it.

I was like that a bit, too, and that's totally fine. Just don't make the mistake of living too much for the future and not enjoying what's going on now. I'm very much enjoying being 30 and the ways that some things in my life feel so much more settled, but there are *absolutely* things I miss about my younger, more carefree past.

Somewhere in northeast

My stomping grounds!

I don't know where in Italy you are, are you northern where they might get snow?
How do you like the cold? The Northeast gets snow. And cold. And it's grey. And everything dies. And people get depressed. (No, really! There's a disorder! It's called Seasonal Affective Disorder.)

lol.. not trying to dissuade you, because the northeast is awesome, but the number one complaint I've heard from people moving to the northeast (and this includes from people moving from Cali/Arizona/the west coast!) is that they have a very hard time with our winters.
Our winters seem to last forever. It gets dark early, people hole up in their houses, and there are times when it's bitingly, bone-numbingly, bitterly cold.

This past winter, we had a particularly bad cold snap for awhile. There are times when you can walk outside to go to your car, and as soon as you open the door, you cough, because the cold air gets into your lungs, and it's an automatic reaction. There are times when it's so cold cars just don't start, and the doors of cars freeze shut.

If you don't like the cold, winters here will suuuuuuck. And they last for several months.

I'm one of the weird freaks who enjoys winter to an extent, I like having 4 different seasons. But even I get affected by it, and temperate climates have an allure.

Also, the Northeast is not known for it's public transportation, outside of the cities. New York City has good public transport, Boston's is acceptable, and after that it's much more hit or miss. Most people have cars, because in many places they're necessary to get around. So keep in mind you may need to get a license, a car, insurance, and then also have to deal with winter driving. (Which sucks.) It's not just the snowy days, either.. it's freezing rain, sleet, slush. It's getting to work on the mornings when things haven't been plowed very well. etc.

But, the northeast tends to be among the more liberal parts of the country, which I personally like. We have the strictest gun control laws and the lowest gun crime. We're among the healthiest states in the nation, with a very high doctor: patient/hospital: patient ratio, and are a highly educated population. We have some gorgeous areas, some good lakes, we're close to the ocean and to small mountains. We're mostly not religious (which again, I like).

We have reasonably good income averages, but we're also a higher cost-of-living area. City living is crazily expensive for a lot of younger people, and even as you get out into suburbs, you need to really research to find good deals.

Most of the area has fairly high state income taxes (which is in addition to federal income taxes) and most, if not all, also have pretty high property taxes.
You're talking about buying houses and so on.. these are things you'll need to think about if that's really the case. You'll need to consider how you're going to work on building a credit score here, and keep in mind that most mortgage lenders will expect usually between 10-20% downpayment at *least* for a new homebuyer.

Depending on where you'd want to buy, that'd be a significant chunk of savings. The house I daydream about (which, admittedly, is in a slightly higher area of western Mass) is around $500,000 and it's a place that needs some work. A friend of mine that owns a 3-bedroom ranch in a small town of about 3,000 people got a $250,000 mortgage.

(does having a family member there help me someway?)

Nope. Not unless it's a citizen parent.

[GuineaPunk]

Sometimes I wish I could make disappear my age because it is against me when it comes to talk with people. Im 17 so everyone thinks all I have to do is going to school, making friends, studying, living day by day. But Im not like this, at all. I have my mind on my future and even tho I know it's wrong for some reasons, Im like this and I kinda like it.
I dont want to think about buying houses when I'll be almost 30, I plan to settle on my own in few years after I'll be done with school.
And I know that my relationship is 3 months old, but time in certain situations means nothing. Not for us.

I don't think anyone is holding your age against you, many 17/18 year olds have upped sticks and moved to other countries. Pretty much every country looks more favourably on those with higher educations and/or professional qualifications, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways of doing things. I can't agree with making big plans at three months personally, but different strokes for different folks.

I would definitely go and visit your relatives and spend some time over there to make sure that the US of A is what you have in your head. Just another thought I don't know if there are any working holiday type things in the USA like in Australia/New Zealand? (Perhaps someone else will know?) I know that there are a few opportunities for us Brits (and I'm assuming other European countries too) to go and work in Summer Camps if you are a university student, but I'm not sure if there are any other similar opportunities that might give you a taste of living in America. Equally that would also give you time away from Europe and your boyfriend to see how he deals with you possibly going through with your dream.


A little off topic, but I really can't see why anyone would ever want to leave Italy , such a gorgeous country!

[silvermoonfairy3]

Just another thought I don't know if there are any working holiday type things in the USA like in Australia/New Zealand? (Perhaps someone else will know?)

There are not.
We reaaaaallly don't want you working here. :P
Unless you're super special, in which case we'll think about it. It's kind of crazy.

A little off topic, but I really can't see why anyone would ever want to leave Italy , such a gorgeous country!

Agreeeeeeeed! I loved Italy.
Andato a Roma e Capri cinque anni fa. Bello.

[Moon]

A little off topic, but I really can't see why anyone would ever want to leave Italy , such a gorgeous country!

Agreeeeeeeed! I loved Italy.
Andato a Roma e Capri cinque anni fa. Bello.

Yikes, maybe this is why...... Italy's youth unemployment rate

[Cristiana]

University is free in Europe - make the most of that and get an education that will allow you to move to the US. Do internships in the US during your studies.
Figure out how much it would cost you to even have a holiday home in the US and go over regularly. Then find a career path, that'll help you make that amount of money.

I dont know which part of Europe you're referring to, but in Italy the word "free" doesnt exist. If I choose to go to university it costs, and a lot. If I wont be satisfied with my drawing technique I'll do some work on my own or take some courses.
Talking with all of you that actually live in the USA is making me see and know new things, even bad ones. I dont know what to think, Im confused and a bit knocked out right now. One thing I know is that in 3 weeks my SO will be here and we'll have a deep talk about this. Both because he's the only one I want to talk with when I have something on my mind and he's part of it all.
Thank you all anyway for infos and advices. I'll make my decisions now or then, and when I'll do them I'll remember your words.


You would want to move out of this country for many reasons, one already mentioned by Moon. Other reasons are: religion and the Pope are into politic more than they should be, there's economic crisis from years and years that is going only down, despite of this everything costs, depending on which job you do you can finish even at 50/60 and after that no one will offer you any job and pension sucks, most of the people are still into fascism.. Want me to continue?

[Dziubka]

I dont know which part of Europe you're referring to, but in Italy the word "free" doesnt exist. If I choose to go to university it costs, and a lot. If I wont be satisfied with my drawing technique I'll do some work on my own or take some courses.

I had no idea. Seems like it's still chepaer than in the US, though. You can always come to Germany, we'll teach you anything for 250€/semester.

[silvermoonfairy3]

Definitely talk to your SO, and think it all over. There's lots of good reasons to move to other countries, and it can be a wonderful experience. Let us know if you have specific questions!

But, last things:

You would want to move out of this country for many reasons, one already mentioned by Moon. Other reasons are: religion and the Pope are into politic more than they should be

Religion is a huge political driver here, too. If you want to escape religion's influence in politics and the legal system, this isn't the place. Check into any of the stuff about the US and belief in evolution. (There are conservatives here, loud ones, who even think the Pope is too soft!)

I know we have this concept of separation of Church and state, but in practice, many Christians would like to change that.
Religion in America is used as justification to try to prevent gay marriage, teaching evolution, allowing abortion, offering access to adequate birth control, condoning breastfeeding in public, and more.
Drives me crazy.

there's economic crisis from years and years

Here, too. We had a pretty big recession start right around when I graduated college in 2008, and they keep telling us it's "recovering" but the income inequality in this country keeps growing. The middle class is struggling and shrinking, and all the while the rich complain that the poor just don't work enough. When we have had job growth, there's been a lot of it for minimum wage type jobs in fast food and so on, as the United States transitions further into a service industry nation than a goods industry.

you can finish even at 50/60 and after that no one will offer you any job

Fortunately we DO have ageism prevention stuff here, so you can't be fired from jobs for age, but if you do get laid off (which is perfectly legal) it's difficult to get another job here, too.

pension sucks

Very few jobs below CEO-type levels have pensions here anymore. It's just not done. We have the social security system for retirement, and it's in such dire straits that financial experts anticipate it will be out of money by 2030. (Basically, in SS, a worker pays into social security, but it goes to support workers who are retired/retiring. The current generation of people about to retire is wayyyy bigger than the current working class, and therefore there isn't going to be enough money to offer the retirees what they were promised.)

Many jobs offer what's called a 401(k) which is basically a less-risky investment plan that a financial institution manages for you, but you still have to make the contributions to it. (Some companies will put small contributions toward it as well.)

most of the people are still into fascism..

Woot, I think we win there! I don't think we have any "official" fascist parties.
But don't mistake that for not having far-right nutjobs. The US has the tea party, which has been called fascism repackaged, and even without them, some parts of the US have conservatives that would make you cringe.

My SO, from New Zealand, is verrry into politics both local and international, and we've basically come to realize that the far-right parties in his country seem to fall somewhere around the centrists in mine.

The conservatives have enough support to get elected regularly. And then the two primary parties (Republicans and Democrats) act like tantruming children and won't work together, so we end up in a lot of political stalemates.

SUPER FUN!


But yeah. I'm not trying to scare you off or dissuade you, just giving the other side of things to help give a fuller picture so you don't go into the decision-making thinking of America as this idealized utopia. We gots problems! But we have a lot of good, and like I said, moving to another country can be a fantastic experience.

[silvermoonfairy3]

You can always come to Germany, we'll teach you anything for 250€/semester.

250/semester???

Do I have to know German? :P

[Dziubka]

250/semester???

Do I have to know German? :P

That 250 includes free public transport in your city and most of the surrounding areas, too

I don't know if there are programmes entirely taught in English (I feel like I should know, but I've never looked into it). My SO needed two full semesters of German 5 days a week (that were also free!) to get a language cert for his programme.

I think if you're from outside of the EU you need to have 10.000€ in your bank account to get a student visa?

[lucybelle]

I had no idea. Seems like it's still chepaer than in the US, though. You can always come to Germany, we'll teach you anything for 250€/semester.

Yeah planning on studying at a CHEAP state school in the USA? Plan on at least $10,000 a year. And not being allowed to work.