There seems to be no future for us

[Moon]

Yup! I was trying to get it back on track.

Probably not gonna happen The topic is too controversial to just die.

[lilspitfire]

Probably not gonna happen The topic is too controversial to just die.

LMAO! Well we just hijacked it for our own purposes of saying stuff and now a word from.........George Carlin

[Unconditional]

Ultimately, you have to do what makes you happy. If you know you'll be absolutely miserable even before you get there, then chances are you know yourself best, and therefore shouldn't move. It's not a question of if I love someone enough to move for them, instead I believe it is a question of whether you love yourself enough not to move. If you move just to make him happy, you will end up resenting him which will cause a huge disturbance in your relationship, ine you may not be able to recover from. I know these are some very dismal sentences I am writing, however I believe there is truth behind them. If you move to appease someone else, you may be resentful in the end if you turn out to be miserable after having moved. After all, you have given up so much, just to be miserable, that won't make you happy.

*This is strictly my opinion.*

[Moon]

Here's my thoughts on this.

I am an unconventional, nontraditional woman, my guy is equally so. I am also very, very practical, rational and not very emotional, same goes with my guy.

There is no way I'm going to sacrifice the life, career and credit score I've worked incredibly hard for, despite starting out as a dirt-poor, teenage single mother, to move to a country that's in a deep recession, where I cannot speak the language, and do not have the educational requirements, to get a job that even Finnish people can't get. I'm not going to throw away the life I've built for myself on a fairy tale. I know I will not be able to find employment in Finland, no amount of love is going to make me employable, fluent in Finnish, with an advanced, specialized STEM degree. None. Does that mean I don't love my guy enough? Nope, it means I am a rational woman with a modicum of intelligence, regardless of being in love. Love won't employ me, put food on the table, or pay a bill. If someone chooses to think my logical decision making means that I don't love my wonderful man enough, then so be it, I honestly don't care. I know what the deal is, and really, that's all that matters.

I also know that, as much as I really do love Finland, I wouldn't be happy living there full time. The winters are too harsh for this sun lover, the people can be a little too cold for me, too. I'd desperately, horribly miss my daughter, I won't be happy being that far away from her. I do not want to live in a place that makes me miserable. All the love in the world doesn't make up for it, love simply doesn't conquer all.

My guy has an elderly mother who's alone, he's all she's got really. She needs him there, though she doesn't bother him often, there are just some things she needs help with sometimes. Her health isn't great. My guy lives in a country where he's guaranteed health care and a pension, and people don't starve there. He owns his apartment, has a decent job, and quite simply, doesn't want to move to the US. In order to do so, we'd probably have to get married for him to ever get a visa, and neither of us are big proponents of marriage. Maybe we'd go that route, if he was free to go, but he isn't. He wouldn't be the man I love if he abandoned his elderly mother just to live with me. How a man treats his mother is a good indicator of how he treats his women. But yeah, I guess he just doesn't love me enough, right?

That's plenty of verbal diarrhea to prove a point, I know, but judging other people's relationships and love based on your own circumstances in life is incredibly narrow minded. Peoples values, ethics and principles are all different. For example, at the moment I'm struggling a little to finance my next trip. I don't have the free cash, and I absolutely will NOT max a credit card to do it! Sure, you might think anyone who's enough in love would of course max out their cards! No, no way in hell. What if I need a major car repair, or one of my dogs gets sick and needs expensive treatments? What if I need some way to get out of some other sticky situation? What if I needed it for my daughter for some reason? I would never, ever leave myself without any financial breathing room, not even for a ticket to see the love of my life. But of course, that's only because I don't love him enough. See how stupid that sounds?

If YOU (the collective you, not an individual you) would do all those things, then great, go for it. We're all different, so don't try telling me, or anyone else they don't love enough, when you don't really know anything about it.

[lilspitfire]

Here's my thoughts on this.

I am an unconventional, nontraditional woman, my guy is equally so. I am also very, very practical, rational and not very emotional, same goes with my guy.

There is no way I'm going to sacrifice the life, career and credit score I've worked incredibly hard for, despite starting out as a dirt-poor, teenage single mother, to move to a country that's in a deep recession, where I cannot speak the language, and do not have the educational requirements, to get a job that even Finnish people can't get. I'm not going to throw away the life I've built for myself on a fairy tale. I know I will not be able to find employment in Finland, no amount of love is going to make me employable, fluent in Finnish, with an advanced, specialized STEM degree. None. Does that mean I don't love my guy enough? Nope, it means I am a rational woman with a modicum of intelligence, regardless of being in love. Love won't employ me, put food on the table, or pay a bill. If someone chooses to think my logical decision making means that I don't love my wonderful man enough, then so be it, I honestly don't care. I know what the deal is, and really, that's all that matters.

I also know that, as much as I really do love Finland, I wouldn't be happy living there full time. The winters are too harsh for this sun lover, the people can be a little too cold for me, too. I'd desperately, horribly miss my daughter, I won't be happy being that far away from her. I do not want to live in a place that makes me miserable. All the love in the world doesn't make up for it, love simply doesn't conquer all.

My guy has an elderly mother who's alone, he's all she's got really. She needs him there, though she doesn't bother him often, there are just some things she needs help with sometimes. Her health isn't great. My guy lives in a country where he's guaranteed health care and a pension, and people don't starve there. He owns his apartment, has a decent job, and quite simply, doesn't want to move to the US. In order to do so, we'd probably have to get married for him to ever get a visa, and neither of us are big proponents of marriage. Maybe we'd go that route, if he was free to go, but he isn't. He wouldn't be the man I love if he abandoned his elderly mother just to live with me. How a man treats his mother is a good indicator of how he treats his women. But yeah, I guess he just doesn't love me enough, right?

That's plenty of verbal diarrhea to prove a point, I know, but judging other people's relationships and love based on your own circumstances in life is incredibly narrow minded. Peoples values, ethics and principles are all different. For example, at the moment I'm struggling a little to finance my next trip. I don't have the free cash, and I absolutely will NOT max a credit card to do it! Sure, you might think anyone who's enough in love would of course max out their cards! No, no way in hell. What if I need a major car repair, or one of my dogs gets sick and needs expensive treatments? What if I need some way to get out of some other sticky situation? What if I needed it for my daughter for some reason? I would never, ever leave myself without any financial breathing room, not even for a ticket to see the love of my life. But of course, that's only because I don't love him enough. See how stupid that sounds?

If YOU (the collective you, not an individual you) would do all those things, then great, go for it. We're all different, so don't try telling me, or anyone else they don't love enough, when you don't really know anything about it.

That's all I had to include really. :/

[Hollandia]

Where to start, where to start....

I was unable at this time to close the distance in USA because USA required me to prove financial monies that my buisness can not do. I tired for years and each year it has taken more hits. i have many other financial links to USA and since no matter how hard we tried he could not find a job in USA we had to look into other arenas....somewhat opposite to the point since I would love to close the distance there.

We went for Holland but again he was unable to find a job that met the NL standards to sponsor me fitting the contract requirements.

We chose UK because he was able to use his multi-lingual skills combined with his tech skills to get a permanent full time contract. We also choose it so that I would be able to get a new job since there would be no more language barrier.

Yes, I would move to a war torn nation with him, btw, I have also said I would rather live in a box on the street with him, than without him in a penthouse. You all don't, bully for you, but I still have a right to my opinion that love should be enough to be homesick.

Yes it is immature to choose your wants over your partner. You don't NEED to live in your home country in the instances I discussed it, you WANT to.

Where do you draw the line? Is it the place you live, the type of house you live in, the amount of pets that you have? I can claim any of them would make my miserable and demand my partner cow tow to my demands if I did not love them enough .

How many of you actually been through a marriage for over 5 years? How about 10? If you have not lived what marriage is like after 10 years of kids and life, then please don't even try to claim you know what it is like. Those that have, this is not directed at, but if you have not then you are only guessing. I speak from experience and wisdom of it.

The relationships and marriages I had where both partners did not put each other first, failed. This time, we put each other first. If we both did not, I would never take that jump again.

Do as you all wish , but I still stand strong by my opinion that choosing to be with your partner rather than being homesick should be a no brainer.

Moon, btw, how about for a current spouse? Would you max out a card for your spouse if sh$t hits the fan in life, or is your credit more important than helping your partner I must admit I shocked to know a few people that would let their spouse twist in the wind to protect their credit. I believe you become a team, a team must work together and be equal. Call me a romantic, a boob, a whatever.. I learned from my mistakes to always make sure you both put each other first or eventually the love will die and then you just have two old people watching out for themselves first. That is not a partnership to me.

Those that don't put their partners first, I would be curious to see the stats about, say about 10 years from now. I swore my marriages would work too. My first Ex put his "new emergence of himself" first and my second put his parents first, and both were recipes for disaster.

Lastly, no, if something every happened I would not stay in any place without my SO other than USA. USA is my home, it is our hope that someday we can live there for some time but regardless if my SO was not in the picture, I would never stay outside of it. I will keep my citizenship till death and I will always be an American. I don't regret leaving to be with my SO, it just makes me sad, but as I said a few times already..I love him enough to do it.

This is pretty cut and dried, you either are willing to do it for your love, or you are not. If you don't have legitimate reasons not to move, then I see it as no different than a child stamping their feet and screaming, "but, I don't wanna !" If my SO had acted like that with no real reason why in the end, I would never have been willing either, because I would feel he did not love me enough and so I would never leave my country for someone that is also willing to leave their own.

Really, I just find it shocking and sad how many people think about " Me" first so much these days. No wonder our politics of the globe are so fraked. All they are looking at is "Me" first too.

[TwoThree]

Yes it is immature to choose your wants over your partner.

I like how you don't say "I believe" or "I think". IT IS immature to choose your wants over your partner's. That is not your opinion, then, that's a fact.

Ok.

[Hollandia]

I like how you don't say "I believe" or "I think". IT IS immature to choose your wants over your partner's. That is not your opinion, then, that's a fact.

Ok.

For the billionth time.

This is a forum. Assume everything said is someone's opinion. That is how forums work.

[Unconditional]

I can see both sides of this debate, that being said I stand by what I have previously stated. There are so many variables in this situation to answer the question presented. You have to do what makes you happy, if he makes you happy, and being with him makes you happy, then I believe that you should go be with him, but if homesickness is all that prevents you from moving and you know in the end it wont make you happy, then don't move. In the end we as individuals determine what we are willing to do or not do for love or just in general.

[Dziubka]

Moon, btw, how about for a current spouse? Would you max out a card for your spouse if sh$t hits the fan in life, or is your credit more important than helping your partner I must admit I shocked to know a few people that would let their spouse twist in the wind to protect their credit. I believe you become a team, a team must work together and be equal. Call me a romantic, a boob, a whatever.. I learned from my mistakes to always make sure you both put each other first or eventually the love will die and then you just have two old people watching out for themselves first. That is not a partnership to me.

I'm not Moon, but
re credit: If it was for something that my SO couldn't have prevented at all and that was not his fault, then I would obviously stay with him and help him out.
If my SO had just been irresponsible and stupid then, no. I don't want to be with someone who puts my credit/financial wellbeing at risk. I'm not going to help you out if you fucked me over. Sorry, I'm not sorry. I need an adult, not an irresponsible boy.
old people: if I put my SO's wellbeing over mine, we'd eventually just have two old people resenting each other. I'd rather watch out for myself first then end up hating my husband.

This is pretty cut and dried, you either are willing to do it for your love, or you are not. If you don't have legitimate reasons not to move, then I see it as no different than a child stamping their feet and screaming, "but, I don't wanna !" If my SO had acted like that with no real reason why in the end, I would never have been willing either, because I would feel he did not love me enough and so I would never leave my country for someone that is also willing to leave their own.

Really, I just find it shocking and sad how many people think about " Me" first so much these days. No wonder our politics of the globe are so fraked. All they are looking at is "Me" first too.

What constituts "legitimate reasons", though? Not that I need your approval, but I'm curious what you'd consider legitimate reasons.
You said your ex put his parents first and that didn't work out. But not moving because I have elderly parents that need care is ok? I could just set them up in a nursing home? What about children? How old do they have to be? Is it still a legitimate reason if the other parent and the child(ren) are ok with me leaving?

Because in principle I agree with you. If my SO refused to move without legitimate reasons, that wouldn't fly with me either. But I consider being miserable or not being comfortable with leaving your home country/culture/language legitimate reasons.

And lastly: For me to be happy, it is important that the people around me are happy, especially those that I love and are closest to me, but also everyone else. I look out for myself first, but I also want to live in a society where the maximum amount of people are also content Because that makes me feel save. Putting yourself first, doesn't necessarily mean not thinking about anybody else.

[Moon]

Where to start, where to start....

I was unable at this time to close the distance in USA because USA required me to prove financial monies that my buisness can not do. I tired for years and each year it has taken more hits. i have many other financial links to USA and since no matter how hard we tried he could not find a job in USA we had to look into other arenas....somewhat opposite to the point since I would love to close the distance there.

We went for Holland but again he was unable to find a job that met the NL standards to sponsor me fitting the contract requirements.

We chose UK because he was able to use his multi-lingual skills combined with his tech skills to get a permanent full time contract. We also choose it so that I would be able to get a new job since there would be no more language barrier.

Yes, I would move to a war torn nation with him, btw, I have also said I would rather live in a box on the street with him, than without him in a penthouse. You all don't, bully for you, but I still have a right to my opinion that love should be enough to be homesick.

Yes it is immature to choose your wants over your partner. You don't NEED to live in your home country in the instances I discussed it, you WANT to.

Where do you draw the line? Is it the place you live, the type of house you live in, the amount of pets that you have? I can claim any of them would make my miserable and demand my partner cow tow to my demands if I did not love them enough .

How many of you actually been through a marriage for over 5 years? How about 10? If you have not lived what marriage is like after 10 years of kids and life, then please don't even try to claim you know what it is like. Those that have, this is not directed at, but if you have not then you are only guessing. I speak from experience and wisdom of it.

The relationships and marriages I had where both partners did not put each other first, failed. This time, we put each other first. If we both did not, I would never take that jump again.

Do as you all wish , but I still stand strong by my opinion that choosing to be with your partner rather than being homesick should be a no brainer.

Moon, btw, how about for a current spouse? Would you max out a card for your spouse if sh$t hits the fan in life, or is your credit more important than helping your partner I must admit I shocked to know a few people that would let their spouse twist in the wind to protect their credit. I believe you become a team, a team must work together and be equal. Call me a romantic, a boob, a whatever.. I learned from my mistakes to always make sure you both put each other first or eventually the love will die and then you just have two old people watching out for themselves first. That is not a partnership to me.

Those that don't put their partners first, I would be curious to see the stats about, say about 10 years from now. I swore my marriages would work too. My first Ex put his "new emergence of himself" first and my second put his parents first, and both were recipes for disaster.

Lastly, no, if something every happened I would not stay in any place without my SO other than USA. USA is my home, it is our hope that someday we can live there for some time but regardless if my SO was not in the picture, I would never stay outside of it. I will keep my citizenship till death and I will always be an American. I don't regret leaving to be with my SO, it just makes me sad, but as I said a few times already..I love him enough to do it.

This is pretty cut and dried, you either are willing to do it for your love, or you are not. If you don't have legitimate reasons not to move, then I see it as no different than a child stamping their feet and screaming, "but, I don't wanna !" If my SO had acted like that with no real reason why in the end, I would never have been willing either, because I would feel he did not love me enough and so I would never leave my country for someone that is also willing to leave their own.

Really, I just find it shocking and sad how many people think about " Me" first so much these days. No wonder our politics of the globe are so fraked. All they are looking at is "Me" first too.

Hol, as I think you know, I have been married...twice. And don't twist the situations, I would absolutely max a card to get my guy out of a bad place, if I could. I said I wouldn't do it just for a plane ticket, that's a tremendous difference, and you know it.

You can say I'm immature if you like, but it doesn't matter though, because I'm happy. My parter-in-crime is happy. We have the best relationship, and it doesn't matter to me if you don't understand the dynamics of how it could be so. All I'm saying is to stop judging people based on your own experience in life, and the choices YOU make. That isn't wisdom, opening your mind to the dynamics of other lifestyles and trying to understand, if not agreeing, with them gives you wisdom.

You really hurt people's feelings by saying those things, and there's no reason for it. Sometimes being blunt or "truthful" has no place, as it doesn't help anyone. I would never tell any of these fine members here that they aren't in love enough, unless their post was so outrageously blatant that there isn't anything else to say. I might think it, but I don't have to make them feel bad by saying it. Not everybody can just up and leave their life. It's not that dissimilar to the young teens we get on here, with SO's thousands of miles away, and they're pining away trying to scam up some way to visit, because they found their one, true love they've been searching for their whole lives. I think everyone of us knows what the likely scenario will be for them, and that they'll be back in a month with another far-away soul mate, but we don't say that to them, as it serves no purpose. That's my point.

Your choices are right FOR YOU, other people make different choices that work for them. One thing I've learned from being married twice is that, while you can definitely put your partner ahead of yourself, do not give yourself up.

You can absolutely put your partner first, but still be true to yourself and the responsibilities you have. I do it everyday, and so does he.

[Hollandia]

What is wrong is forgetting the OP of the whole thing I responded to. This was a person that was simply "homesick" . If pushed as I was , yes, again and again, I will say I believe that you should always pick your partner first. There does come a point when people don't agree to the core and this is one of those for me. As offensive as you find it to the one end, I find it just as offensive to the other end.

The is all about giving the best advice as to whether or not it is okay to have a partner that is "too homesick" to make it work. I find that childish and I hear a ton of excuses and I find that to be much what it wrong with the world today.

I I cry enough, I can go my way. Real people find ways to make it work, and it your case, you are moot to this point, neither of you is crying, I gotta go, so not even sure why you think you are addressed . The OP is about one partner having to cow tow to another because they are too "homesick" and for that again, I say , boo frakin hoo. Grown up and get over it, you can't always have what you want in life, if you love someone enough, you make it work.

[Moon]

What is wrong is forgetting the OP of the whole thing I responded to. This was a person that was simply "homesick" . If pushed as I was , yes, again and again, I will say I believe that you should always pick your partner first. There does come a point when people don't agree to the core and this is one of those for me. As offensive as you find it to the one end, I find it just as offensive to the other end.

The is all about giving the best advice as to whether or not it is okay to have a partner that is "too homesick" to make it work. I find that childish and I hear a ton of excuses and I find that to be much what it wrong with the world today.

I I cry enough, I can go my way. Real people find ways to make it work, and it your case, you are moot to this point, neither of you is crying, I gotta go, so not even sure why you think you are addressed . The OP is about one partner having to cow tow to another because they are too "homesick" and for that again, I say , boo frakin hoo. Grown up and get over it, you can't always have what you want in life, if you love someone enough, you make it work.

Whatever, safe journeys, I really do like you Hol, but I wish you weren't always so immensely black and white. There's a hell of a lot of gray in this world.

[Hollandia]

Whatever, safe journeys, I really do like you Hol, but I wish you weren't always so immensely black and white. There's a hell of a lot of gray in this world.

Moon, In my life I have seen so much much black and white, it would make you cry. I love middle ground but sometimes you have to pick a stance and stand your grand. I also believe in picking new color names, but when it comes down to move or not, there is no gray.

[HappyHealthy365]

"It is not about "making" someone leave their home, it is about jointly making the best decition as a couple." Profoundly said!