Ultimatums - sometimes necesssary or emotional abuse?

[Rezie]

Marriage is not an option. He could stay here for more than 3 months. He just doesn't want to be unemployed for that long since it looks bad on CV and he likes to earn money. Marriage wouldnt change that. And there is no way that I am getting married without living togerher for a few years.

He doesn't want to study so that pretty much leaves employment as the only option. Getting work is not easy so thats why the 'any job' is tempting option for me. I know it is not up to me. He does short contracts because it pays double the ammount and when it is fixed term and explained in CV it doesn't look too bad especially since he has quite long work history with long term places aswell. I know I sound horrible when I try to force him to do things. But he also has the option of telling me that I am unresonable and selfish. At least that would be an opinion and I would know his view 

Of course this has been bulding up for several years so it's not just sudden. And there has been other issues that has been caused by the distance. It's weird feeling alone when trying to solve a relationship. And I'm not planning on flat out tell him. I'm meeting him on saturday and this will be the first time since our serious conversations so I need to see how it feels now. He didnt seem enthusiastic about setting uo a meeting but now he is slowly warmig up. Feelig a bt nervous but try to keep an open mind. If he initiates a conversations I will tell him my view. No ultimatums. Maybe it will force him to think and get back to me. We have had the same conversation about 5 times via text, talking on the phone and face to face. Everytime he sounds sprised like there is new information. So maybe if I flat out tell him what I am thinking and tell him what I want to happen. Maybe he will finally get it and actuall ythink what he wants.

I just need some confirmation about what is his plan. More than 'someday when this and this work out'. We are both doing the best we can but I need him to confirm his conditions so that I know what I can expect.

Chris, I do believe going CD is the only option for my sanity. Or continue LDR knowing an exact date when it will become CD.

I can talk about this in circles as much as I want. I understand that I am putting him in uncomfortable and unfair position but I also have to take care of myself. I would be happy with whatever outcome. As long as there is one and not on this limbo.

[LisaS]

As I'm reading this, I feel like you're being to hard on yourself for wanting what you want. Don't be! You should definitely do what's best for you. I think not ultimating him is the best way to go, but as you said, just have a conversation about your timeline and see if he's on board with it. It sounds like you will be fine either way though!

[Rezie]

Thanks guys for all your support. We haven't had the talk yet. I wrote down my thoughts so when we do talk about it its easier for me to explain my POV. Speaking a foreign language is sometimes a bit difficult when being emotional!

I read my own writing. It seems like the distance is not the problem. It is the lack of plan. It has been almost 5 years since we first started to spend time together and we are not one step closer to closing the distance and there is no plan. And the more we are apart the more independent I become and make my own life that fits only me. Also there are the issues of compatibility, different ways of thinking, some values that are not a problem when we are together for 3 days.

Right now for me this is affecting my confidence. Such as if I was prettier, skinnier, nicer, more perfect then maybe he would want me more. I know it is not rational or true. It also doesnt make sense since Im also the one with the breaks on about us fitting together. But these thought are scary for a relatively young woman who has always had healthy confidence and had never let a man define her.

Well the latest development has been that we were planning a meet up. He says he can't get any time off. I say that I can come over early December and I would really enjoy if I could come over on new years aswell and how it is something that I have thought about every new years and it would mean a lot to me. He says it doesn't make sense since it is cheaper in a few weeks and he could come over for a bit longer and since he dosent have time off it would be too short visit.

Well turns out he has 2.5 weeks off from work. Great that he wants to spend time with his dad but it did hurt me a bit that he says he doesn't have time and then has a few weeks off. I just kind of wish he would bring up how he didn't know he had time of or found ot after ticket prices had gone up or something to aknowledge that he has half the month off but no time to see me. It's not how his mind operates so I don't have the right to be upset but still.

I decided that I will wait past new years to have the talk since I don't want him to ruin his holiday. Propably when he starts talking about meeting up in January. Maybe I'll build up the courage by then! 😊

[Rezie]

dear friends in LFAD,

We had our talk. It was a good talk. There was no need for even suggested ultimatums. He had done some thinking and I had done a lot of thinking. I sent him an email where I said that I wanted to talk about our relationship since I’m very unhappy at the moment. I wrote that I wanted for him to think about his plan, views and goals and let me know when he is ready to talk. I thought this way he would have time to think and not feel ambushed into a serious conversation without being ready. He what’s apped me yesterday that he was ready to talk.

I talked about my trust issues with him since he has postponed the closing the distance so many times (October 2015 was THE last contract. But then it was one more..one more…and here we are in January 2017). Him resigning from work weeks ago but still thinking of getting employment in his country. Him not applying to job links I sent him. Not wanting to meet up in December cause longer time in January makes more sense and getting time of work is impossible. Then having 2,5 weeks off. Then when I ask about January he says he could do 3 days. He said that now that I point those out he can see why it makes me feel insecure but that has not been his purpose. He is just very practical. Well about January meet up he thought I wouldn’t want more than 3 days.

I talked about me having some doubts about our compatibility since in the past 4,5 years we have spent more than a week together only once. And that didn’t go great due to first anxiety from his side about being in another country which in turn made me anxious that he doesn’t really want to be here and all the plans are gone down the drain and actually all this postponing was him not wanting to do it. So I noticed a lot of differences in our values, ways of doing things, lifestyle etc. he thought everything went great.

We talked about the negative sides of our personalities. He brought up something that I had never known before that is me stomping on people’s dreams. He is worried that if we had kids that I would put them down if they had dreams. This is definitely something I’m going to work on. I’m very cautious and realistic and don’t want to lose control and apparently this comes of differently. I think in this case he is excited about a job etc. and how he is going to do this and this once he goes there. And I point out that he hasn’t gotten it yet and there are several applicant so not to be too certain or cocky and then get disappointed. But next time someone in my life is excited about something I will do my best to take a breath and be supportive!

I told him how this whole situation is making me an emotional mess who is insecure and has a low self-confidence. I feel like I can burst out crying and I need to keep myself super busy so I don’t have time to think. I’ve always had fairly healthy self-image but now it is crumbling since I am thinking about him, us, my feelings and everything all the time. I know I love him but I am not sure that is enough. I know I want him in my life but I am not sure if it is as a life partner. I can’t separate the situation and feelings from each other. And the situation doesn’t get better the longer we are in different countries. I keep pushing him away since I’m done with the distance and we have waited for so long. I have told him this before but he thought that after we met up and had a lovely weekend it had gone away and I was pulling away for the lack of caring.

He said that he wants to be with me. I’m not forcing him to move against his will. He finally understands where I am coming from and hasn’t really understood that when I’ve brought this up before was that I was serious and not just temperamental. He is not a bit worried about me though. And he is going to evaluate that what are the reasons deep down for postponing. And how fast he would be willing to proceed since his latest “one more contract till the end of april” is not working for me and if he does relocate if he is willing to take a “lesser” job meaning not related to his work field but to do something till he finds something better. He had been thinking that I’m being “weird” due to not caring about him. Even though it is the opposite. I care so much that it hurts.

We also talked about that would happen if we broke up. He thinks it is the worst case scenario. I think that it is not the worst case scenario but a thig that was meant to be. I don’t see relationships as a failure if it ends. I told that what also scares me is that if we break up I’m the one doing it and I’m in charge of our happiness and it is only my decision and not a mutual one. Also that he is the awesomest person I know so thinking that the options are either together forever or never talk again. He did say that we could still be in contact and friends. I think we are a lifetime but I’m not sure if it is friends or partners.

So we didn’t really come up with a solution or a plan. But I think that he now understands me where I am coming from and why I seem the way I am and why I have this need to protect myself. He wanted few days to think about everything and then get back to me. I thought this sounded good. We have always been good at communicating but lately because we are uncertain of how other feels it is not working. And it has gone too far from my side.

This forum is amazing. So thank you for reading and being there for me. I just wish I would have found it sooner!

[Chris516]

Rezie, That is a welcome update.

[Rezie]

Hello my dear friends,

I really feel like venting again. I try to not talk about me 24/7 with my entourage so they don’t get sick of me so I need to vent again and also you guys probably understand LDR and the side affects 

So after our talk (up a few messages) he wanted a few days to think about everything and get back to me. I thought, perfect he is gonna think and let me know what he thinks and what he is ready to do. I really wanted to give him time and not put any pressure and let him start the conversation since I feel like I haven’t really listened to him. It has been 27 days and no further conversations. He did once ask via text if I was ok since I wasn’t super talkative. It was a moment that it was not appropriate to open up so I said something like I was ok but busy at the moment. I actually wanted to say was that I opened up about how I feel anxious, insecure, low self-confidence, cry myself to sleep, doubts, uncertainty so NO I’m not ok. I know I should be a grown up and start another conversation but as long as I’m not happy with any of the options it’s just going around in circles. So I’m pretty sure he forgot that he was supposed to get back to it or that now that I have been “ok” everything is fine and all my anxieties are gone. He is talking about applying to jobs in my country, thinking about language courses, planning holidays to destinations that I have talked about.

We met up for a week in mid January. It was very nice. We went to the movies, hanged out with my family, had some dinner, cooking etc. all perfectly lovely. These meetups always go well since there is no time to get annoyed and all the small things can be pushed aside. So this created more confusing feelings. But I do have to say that it’s not the most amazing time and when he heads back home it’s a bit of a relief. Not because I don’t enjoy spending time with him but because I feel like I don’t live my normal life when he is around. But we do have very good time together, I like cuddling and being close with him.

So I have been doing a lot of thinking and I have tracked down my main issues that I have

Trust. I don’t trust him anymore. He has postponed moving so many times that I really don’t believe that he wants to move here. Also I don’t feel like he has done any research that really supports that it is his intention. I think he is happy with what we are now but because I decided to get difficult now he has to relocate. Previously he has stated that he has no interests in learning my language and other smaller stuff but now he is talking about them. Hard to understand if he is trying to please me or if he has just changed his mind.

Uncomfortable. I don’t feel comfortable with him or about him. I avoid talking about him to my people around me. I don’t want to share details about my life or about what is going on around. I remember about 4 years ago we were cuddling in his bed and I remember having tears in my eyes because I felt so content. I’ve lost that feeling. And everytime I try to slow things down such as have a hug he starts to tap, squeeze, make honk sound and I just want to stop hugging.

Responsibility. I feel like I am responsible of his wellbeing. I know that I am not. Since I don’t trust that he wants to relocate then I feel like I have to make sure he is happy and do everything for him. He is a yes man so I know all the important decisions would be on me. Also he expressed that if we broke up due to the trust thing he couldn’t forgive himself or if we broke up he would understand but he would have to accent that he wouldn’t then get to have a family. Which feels manipulative, but I know that is not his intention. But it does affect me even though I know it is not up to me.

Communication. We communicate differently. I can understand his side and step into his shoes. But he understands me only when I point it out to him. And he can forget things and wonder what is wrong with me. And currently the texting and phone calls are not great.

As you guys have said that I’m allowed to put a deadline. The problem is that I realized that 2015 was my deadline without even realizing it. Once it didn’t happen I’ve checked myself out and slowly been putting things until now that it comes out as anxiety. So now he is saying he wants to come over and I’m not excited a t all. At one point I was thinking that “f--- it, If he wants to come over then let him. He knows how I feel and if he still wants then go on.” then I started to think about practical arrangements with the officials in his country, in my country, new lease with the apartment, him trying to apply for jobs etc. then it created more anxiety and it doesn’t really seem fair either. Call me old fashioned but if I move in with someone I want to feel good about it. I still don’t know what I want. I don’t know what are my own feelings and what are projected from how I think he feels. And I don’t know if it would be solved by moving cause then I would know. But it doesn’t feel good to move if I can’t bring myself into giving 100%.

In conclusion, no changes in the relationship.

[Rezie]

Nee update. Need to vent again. So I sent a message to my boyfriend early February saying that even after all of this if he wants to come over we could give the closing distance a try. I said that he should think about his terms and conditons and then we should talk about it. Such as how long he is willing to be unemployed, what type of work he is willing to do etc or if he has changed his mid about coming here. He didn't respond. So 3 weeks later I asked him to confirm that he got the message. He said that he got it. It has been a month and I'm thinkig about asking if he is still contemplating. I know I could ask him when we talk on the phobe but I don't want to put him on the spot without warning. He is calling and messaging like nothing is going on but he never even mentions the prospect of even visiting. So I'm not sure if he has forgotten or still thinking. End of rant.

[Redheart14]

Nee update. Need to vent again. So I sent a message to my boyfriend early February saying that even after all of this if he wants to come over we could give the closing distance a try. I said that he should think about his terms and conditons and then we should talk about it. Such as how long he is willing to be unemployed, what type of work he is willing to do etc or if he has changed his mid about coming here. He didn't respond. So 3 weeks later I asked him to confirm that he got the message. He said that he got it. It has been a month and I'm thinkig about asking if he is still contemplating. I know I could ask him when we talk on the phobe but I don't want to put him on the spot without warning. He is calling and messaging like nothing is going on but he never even mentions the prospect of even visiting. So I'm not sure if he has forgotten or still thinking. End of rant.

3 weeks without a response?? That's not fair to you!! I know you don't want to ask on the phone but I think maybe you have to, you'll know in the response how he feels.

[Honour]

Yeah, that's a long time of "not knowing." You need to confront him about it, outright. Be firm, not harsh.

[Rezie]

To be fair I did tell him to take his time and get back to me when he is ready. It is a big decision if he wants to move eventhough I have some doubts. I desperately want to know since the 'end date' he previously talked about was mid April so I wpuld like to know what happens within a month.

Anyway I sent him a what's app asking if he is still thinking or just forgotten. He responded with that it is still on his mind. I put down that he should let me know once he is ready to talk. So I guess I should wait. I can't expect him to make a decision on the spot.

Problem is that we talk, send messages. I'm being a bit causious to give him space and for my self so I don't give myself expectations. He on the other hand is sending hearts, I love yous, wish i was there and I want to share that with you messages.

[Sakuu4]

Hello, sorry for stepping in out of the blue, but your last posts reminded my of my situation last year.
My So didn't postpone moving (on the contrary it will be me moving to him) but I felt that we were going nowhere since we didn't have a plan after 2years and I needed that. I tried keeping his peace (he would often said "we will think about that once we are done with ***" and then no, we didn't). At some point I just realised I couldn't do that anymore cause I wasn't looking forward to calls or even visits (I was thinking what was the point and it also seemed to me it was interfering with my "normal life"). In general it made me more frustrated and sad than happy.
When he came to visit me I told him that I wasn't willing to continue like that, it would have just turned out in me not caring for us/him anymore. It was kind of an ultimatum, but more than a "date" what I wanted was commitment, like seeing that he was seriously thinking about us as well and that we wouldn't continue like that forever.
It took some time but things went better and he started to search into opportunities (for me there) as well. Maybe that's also something you can do to show him that he won't be alone in finding a job/starting a new life? I don't know, maybe you have done it already, just a suggestion

Anyway I think you deserve to know, even if he doesn't have an answer! I would just tell him I need to know what kind of things is he thinking :\

[Rezie]

Hello, sorry for stepping in out of the blue, but your last posts reminded my of my situation last year.
My So didn't postpone moving (on the contrary it will be me moving to him) but I felt that we were going nowhere since we didn't have a plan after 2years and I needed that. I tried keeping his peace (he would often said "we will think about that once we are done with ***" and then no, we didn't). At some point I just realised I couldn't do that anymore cause I wasn't looking forward to calls or even visits (I was thinking what was the point and it also seemed to me it was interfering with my "normal life"). In general it made me more frustrated and sad than happy.
When he came to visit me I told him that I wasn't willing to continue like that, it would have just turned out in me not caring for us/him anymore. It was kind of an ultimatum, but more than a "date" what I wanted was commitment, like seeing that he was seriously thinking about us as well and that we wouldn't continue like that forever.
It took some time but things went better and he started to search into opportunities (for me there) as well. Maybe that's also something you can do to show him that he won't be alone in finding a job/starting a new life? I don't know, maybe you have done it already, just a suggestion

Anyway I think you deserve to know, even if he doesn't have an answer! I would just tell him I need to know what kind of things is he thinking :\

oh please, more the merrier! I’m glad it’s going better for you guys. I’ve actually gone to other direction. I got him a sim card to his old phone so in his CV he would have a local phone number (we got it together, not me just sending it over) and I happily pay for the phone bill. He uses my address so it kinda looks like he is located here. Preciously I sent him links to various jobs and companies that might be interesting. He never mentioned about applying and sometimes he mentioned that he had applied and sometimes the application had closed. I kind of challenged the idea if he was even seriously applying. He said that internet connection was bad, work was stressful but he applied to some. He is just particular what he is willing to do and where. In my personal opinion he did the best he was willing to do, but that just wasn’t enough. There would be need for more proactivity. Well some time later he admitted that living abroad scares him and he couldn’t put all his effort into it. Well now that he is in his words totally ok with moving (well at least before the feb 3 that I sent him asking if he is coming over) one thing is that I need him to show that he is willing to put the effort in.

I know this sounds harsh but I kind of need him to prove he wants to be with me and make this work. I will help him if he asks for help. He just kind of does this thing that he wants something and he doesn’t ask me nor try to find it on his own. Example: he said that only thing in the world that makes him feel normal, human and good is running. He came over for almost 3 months last summer and he never went running. I tried to get him to do it and we walked around in the area. He brought up that he is not feeling good because he isn’t running. I asked why not. He said he didn’t know where he could go. I then tried to point out a few parks we had gone to walk in. He didn’t like the surfaces. So instead of trying to find out on his own or asking me he just decided not to do anything and say he can’t. I then pointed out that it makes me feel like he doesn’t want to be here if the one thing that he enjoys he doesn’t want to do. He just said he was lazy and those things are not related. It’s a bit similar with the job hunting. I’m happy to help but I also need him to want to be helped. So in a way I need him to be in charge of his own relocation but I would be there to assist when needed. Not doing things for him.

Also I need to put down my annual leave and I would kind of like to know if I have another person living with me or should I save some for future visits or can I just use them on myself and travel somewhere on my own. Or if I just make my own plans and see if he fits around them. Well now he is reminded again. So if after this week he doesn’t return to the subject I tell him that I need to know if I’m living with someone med april or not. It’s a big deal for me as well! Also I think the main problem is tha the doens't understand the way I think. For me when I ask if he could confirm that he recieved my message the appropriate answer would be " yes I did. I'm going to need a few weeks to thhnk about it and I will get back to you once I've processed" to him an appropriate answer is "yes" since technically that is what I askd.

[Ejoriah]

I think you need to realize that your concerns are valid, and you need to stop worrying about whether you can ask him and whether it is appropriate. Honestly you just need to bluntly come out and ask him whether he will be coming out because you need to plan stuff. He confirmed that he received your message so you are absolutely entitled to follow up and ask what he thinks, and to have a conversation about it. Don't make excuses for him not communicating - relationships take work on both sides, and him sitting back and not offering clarity is not something you should put up with.

[Rezie]

Thank you. I appreciate your words of encouragement. I try to find a balance of giving him space to think and getting answers. I reminded him today about it and he said it us on his mind. I can sympathise that it's now a big deal to him especially after we have had a lot of talk if it is worth to save the relationship. I guess this kind of came from nowhere to him. Well now it has been reminded. If he doesn't brig it up this week when we talk on the phobe I will tell him the annual leave thing that I need to know.

[Rezie]

I can appreciate the irony that since October he has been unknowing how I feel since I've been very uncertain about our future drive we didn't a plan. Now I have a plan and I'm the one waiting 😀