I wasn't going to post this but I might as well...

[Talent_2]

Hi Andy

Sorry to hear your predicament. I can see from all your posts (and theres a lot of them ) that Tanja is your world! and that your a really intelligent guy who would make the most of any job or opportunity you are given.

Firstly on the language barrier, have you looked into getting a dvd or dictionary or something that can help you to start learning the language plus you have Tanja who can help you learn it more than the love of your life???

On the job side of things is there anyway to do the kinda career you want from home? so you can be with Tanja and have the career you want? Also would taking a few years out be that bad? Some quality you and Tanja time? meanwhile you can keep up learning about your chosen career so you wont be out of the loop when you do decide to re-enter the world of logistics. Another idea......lol youll be sick of me soon lol does your dads contacts have any contacts in Finland? that could help you break into the industry in finland?

Final note................follow your heart and do what is best for you, you have already said that Tanja will support you just be open with her.

Good luck hope it all works out

[Casey]

Hey Andy,

First of all, thanks for having the confidence to share your story with us. It seems as though you had perhaps been wanting to get it out for awhile. I really hope someone's answer here helps you out.
Secondly, in my situation (which is somewhat similar bar the whole international thing, which is a huge difference) I've had to choose between
A) Brisbane - Major metropolitan city, plenty of universities, friends and family are here, loads of job opportunities
B) Albury - large rural town, two universities but they don't offer the degree I want to do after I graduate in Brisbane, three university option but they are all via distance ed, I don't know anyone, limited job opportunities (not something you want when you just graduate).
And as you know, I chose my heart over career. I figure if its meant to be, then it will work out. I'm bloody determined to become a registered psychologist, therefore I know I will get there- perhaps not on the path I originally planned but I'll make a new plan and this time just go with the flow. You seem very determined, therefore I think you know you will get there because you will work your ass off to get there - perhaps you are just concerned it won't all go to the original plan you had set out for your life?
So by the sounds of it, there is no possible way Tanja can move which makes it more difficult, as you can't just "settle" in a so-so job for a few years while you learn the language. It would probably be best to find some paid/ volunteer work that somehow relates to your field while you are doing your language course. While I don't know your situation, if my partner was never planning to move out of Albury and was going to stay there permanately, then I would be staying put in Brisbane.. and well probably telling him to get stuffed. But thats just me, and I'm sure its a different situation.

[loveonspeedial]

ok. maybe this sounds a little odd of a response. Have you ever considered moving to another country other then Finland, one where maybe your career is in demand? Maybe like America (Don't freak Tanja!) or England where they speak English or maybe a country close to Finland, Norway, Sweden? So you're still close and doing what you want?

[Riyko]

I know everyone is telling you to just move with Tanja and I do agree, but why don't you find a job where you live while going to a finnish language school that way you can save up some money and learn the language at the same time. That way you will be killing two birds with one stone so to speak. This link may help you if you want to go about learning the language that way https://www.listenandlearn.org/finnish/

[Cloudy]

Hi, Andy!

Here are my 2 cents…
First some questions:
Could you (or Tanja herself) please explain why Tanja can't move to the UK??
How far exactly does she live away from the next bigger city?
What is she doing in Finland, how are her own plans for the next 2 years.

Like Moon said I don't think either that fluent Finnish is a must to work in Finland.
Finnish isn't even the only official language in Finland but Swedish is, too. Swedish is much easier to learn.
With a language like Finnish (i.e. very complicated and few people speaking it), I don't really believe that employers will expect you to speak perfect Finnish! Of course you should learn Finnish to go to the supermarket, socialize etc. …
Most probably Finnish companies will be more than happy to employ a young, intelligent and open-minded English native speaker like you!
Maybe Nokia?

anyways, good luck and start rethinking your options.

[Tanja]

Could you (or Tanja herself) please explain why Tanja can't move to the UK??

Because of my daughter. She's 10 years old and I will not take her away from her friends and family and most importantly from her dad who loves her.
I will not be that selfish even though language-wise it would be easier for me to make the move.

I also already own my own house (I also have 3 horses and 3 dogs which I count as my "kids" ), I work in my family business whereas Andy lives at home, has no kids, no job (yet) or anything to hold him back so to say... It's just easier in that sense for him to come here. And I know it sounds selfish to say this but this is my dream home, something I've wanted to have since I was a little girl and I've worked hard to get it (paying a huge mortgage atm but I don't care) and I don't want to give it up just like that.
My home is big enough for all of us and for our future children

[Moon]

Hi, Andy!

Here are my 2 cents…
First some questions:
Could you (or Tanja herself) please explain why Tanja can't move to the UK??
How far exactly does she live away from the next bigger city?
What is she doing in Finland, how are her own plans for the next 2 years.

Like Moon said I don't think either that fluent Finnish is a must to work in Finland.
Finnish isn't even the only official language in Finland but Swedish is, too. Swedish is much easier to learn.
With a language like Finnish (i.e. very complicated and few people speaking it), I don't really believe that employers will expect you to speak perfect Finnish! Of course you should learn Finnish to go to the supermarket, socialize etc. …
Most probably Finnish companies will be more than happy to employ a young, intelligent and open-minded English native speaker like you!
Maybe Nokia?

anyways, good luck and start rethinking your options.

Actually, it usually is. My company is an exception to the rule, unfortunately. Swedish isn't a good compromise as only 4% (correct me if I'm wrong Finnish folks!) of the population speak it. It's quite difficult to get a job in Finland without conversational Finnish, its a country that isn't as used to immigrants as a lot of others are, although that's changing a little as time goes on, at least in Southern Finland (That I'm aware of). Andy is very right in his concerns, it's just not as easy to do there as it is in other countries, if you don't speak Finnish Socially, you can feel very out-of-place very fast!

Hah, sorry for answering this without even being Finnish, but it is something I've investigated pretty thoroughly! Correct me if I'm wrong though

[Tanja]

Hah, sorry for answering this without even being Finnish, but it is something I've investigated pretty thoroughly! Correct me if I'm wrong though

You are right Moon and no reason to be sorry at all - in fact I'm quite impressed how well you've done your homework!

[garnet]

Rane wasn't quite as driven as you are in his career, and of course faces no language barrier here, however, he did have the chance to go to school much earlier, and omg so much less expensively if he stayed in canada for a few more years. We spent a lot of time talking about this. I wanted to make sure he was sure... and wouldn't come to resent me, you know? He is so frickin bright and wants to be an engineer (and I have full confidence he will be). I don't want to hold him back from that, or things in life to challenge him... He needed to really be clear. Finally he told me that at the end of the day, coming home to me is what will make him happy. The other things may be harder this way, but they will come.
OTOH, I have a friend in an LDR (also canada/usa) and neither one of them seems to mind waiting it out one single bit. They're happy, this works for them right now. She's about to go back to school last I heard, and he was too if he gets on it.

Where will you be happiest at the end of your day? With Tanja asap, or are you guys ready to tackle a few more years of distance? Don't go in thinking it's too much, you've already made it so far. Of course you two will make it. Having the LD part extended would suck for all involved, but if it's what you need to do, then it's what you need to do.
I've always gotten the feeling though, that maybe you are more like Rane and seeing Tanja each and every day would be what made you the most fulfilled when it comes down to it.

Either way, I know it's not easy (even though I was the one in Tanja's shoes, and that is an uncomfortable spot too!), and I wish you guys the best.

[Gurl]

Hey Andy
Why can't you get a job without knowing Finnish? Surely there are firms that could use a native English speaker for their dealings with the US and the UK? It's all about how you package yourself. That being said, 25 is not too old to start your career. You can showcase that you are multilingual, and continue to learn more languages to make yourself more valuable to upper management. You can also network as you get some beginning skills in the language. Maybe you could even have a grunt type job while learning Finnish somewhere? Something to make you feel better, help your resume look a bit better, etc etc. Is there a Uk company with a Finnish branch you could get on with? Then you'd have time to work here while learning the language hopefully.

What ever you do, be happy. Look at it as what will make me the most happy over the next 5, 10 and 50 years. If the answer is clear, then you are good to go. Its a horrible spot to be in, and you have my thoughts and prayers as you weigh your choices. If there is anything I can do--even just listen, I am always on yahoo IM and Twitter DMs come straight to my cell phone. I am here for both of you in any way I can be. X's to you both.

[Andy]

Wow, I'm blown away by the thought and effort put into these replies. Thanks so much to everyone, it means an awful lot.

I'm still a bit tired after 13 hours of traveling yesterday so I won't reply properly to this just yet, I'll just say I've read each and every reply very carefully and there's been a lot of good points and questions brought up. I'll hopefully get onto this when I'm in a more focused, and I suppose positive state of mind later today.

Thanks again, you guys are awesome

And by the way, my reply is going to be a monster so brace yourselves

[LadyMarchHare]

That's quite a dilemma, Andy. My main question, before I click to any other channel here to discuss, is: which would kill you to cut out of your life more?

I knew a gentleman who put his career before his marriage, he was an engineer so long hours and uncertain ones, because he wanted the career success and to provide for his wife everything she might want. Thing was, she wanted none of it; just him. So they divorced, but later did re-marry since it wasn't that they'd fallen out of love, merely that he'd been loving her wrong. I bring this up because I feel it's slightly relevant in that you want, perhaps need, the success and money so badly yet with Tanja now in your life and so dear, it's thrown a monkey wrench into the machine and you're not sure whether to work towards success or towards her and take the risk of no success work-wise.

Excuse the cliche, but love really messes around with us, it changes our plans. I had goals in my life that involved just me, but now the 'me' has turned to 'we' and every plan has to be thrown out or re-calculated. We're taking big risks now, we're diving into uncharted seas for pearls that may not be there, may be myth, but damned if we don't try, right?

Learning any language is hard, but if you know the learning method best for you try and see this girl near you and see if you guys can do lessons that way. Me, I'm visual so flashcards, notes, pictures, movies, etc help me. You sound very left-brained so that's a different ballpark. If you're super determined you can pick up the bare bones, swallow a bit of pride when others speak and tell them it's not your native tongue, and pick it up more as you go. Procrastinating, like giving up, is sometimes harder than going forward, you know?

Obviously I can't tell you what to do and how to live your life, but if you're going to define yourself by career success and not success as a person and by living outside of an office/wherever you choose to work, you're not really living. I've seen guys gain some bad anxiety issues from it and perfectionism and I don't want that for you because really it sucks. Basically all I can tell you is look back at the question I first asked and be honest to yourself, and maybe sit down and make a big list of pros and cons to each situation based on fact, not 'maybe'. Good luck, man. And sorry if I addressed anything that's been said before, I kinda just read the first post then went to town.