He's been cheating for months in another LDR...

[Silvaria]

Me again, thanks everyone for weighing in on whether or not to tell TOW.

(As a side note, the bastard is writing me on AIM right now, just making small talk about politics and such. Last night I was wondering how long it would be before I heard from him again...remembering the past 5 breakups, it was always the next day. He is as predictable as the sunrise...)

Everyone has good points...I'll admit that the idea of ruining his life right now is tempting...I also have information that could get him evicted and he has nowhere else to go.

However, I believe too strongly in karma for that depth of revenge. I may be a woman scorned, but my fury isn't that bad.

Eclaire, you make a lot of good points that really made me stop and think. I'll be reading your post several times as I work towards making a decision.

To be honest, I'd already written up a rough draft, with some intimate details that only someone who has been involved with him very recently would know. I even copied and pasted a few of our AIM conversations on or near the dates that he was writing how much he loved her on her wall, and from the date that they supposedly started the relationship. She'd have to be stupid not to see that he and I were obviously involved at the same time, and she appears to be quite intelligent. But actually sending it? I honestly don't know right now, which is why I'm not going to do anything until I cool off a bit.

I have to admit that I am leaning towards it, but I'm not entirely sure why. I think I need to discover the "why" before I do anything that I can't take back.

Thanks again to everyone, I have a lot to think about, still.

[Silvaria]

Sorry, just need to vent a bit more...

So he writes me on AIM a little while ago, and starts making small talk. Then we started discussing something political and he sent me a link, told me to enjoy and then logged off without saying anything else.

Just...wow. Just a few days ago he was telling me that he loves me so very much, writing me every day, spending hours and hours chatting with me...just a couple of weeks ago, he made a comment about "When I'm there", meaning when he moves here. Yet supposedly, he's been unhappy for a while and was going to dump me in a couple of months?

What the hell happened, you know?

How do you go from saying, "I love you so very much, I can't wait to be with you again" to this in a few days?

I wish I didn't still love him, you know? As hurt as I am, I simply can't switch off 3 years' of emotion.

Such a bizarre combination of hate and love right now...kind of difficult to wrap my mind around what I'm feeling.

[Dziubka]

I think it's never a good idea to tell the other woman, that she's "the other woman".
Eclaire makes some good points.

I think it almost always makes the teller seem very revengeful and bitter. "If I can't have him, than no one else should." I understand that, really, but isn't that a bit beneath you?
Even if it was really only because you wanted to protect her (and carefully listen to your head, heart and body if that is the case - I feel that a lot of the time it isn't), I doubt that she's going to think like that. And more than that, I doubt it's going to do anything.

[Bethypoo]

As for telling the other woman, if it is someone that you know, then i would tell her. If it is some random woman, then it is for her to realize what is going on.

When he does come back, you need to stand up for yourself. Let him know you understand the disorder but that there is no excuse for not trying to control it whether through medication or therapy. And you said that he has no interest in neither and therefore you cant be apart of watching him not take care of himself.

And I hope that you dont leave the community, your insight is always wanted. But if you do choose to leave LFAD, and then find that you need support, dont forget that we are all here for you.

[Silvaria]

Me again, lol...been getting some interesting different opinions on telling TOW from various sources, and I've realized that I probably won't, but just as sometimes it's fun to spend an afternoon daydreaming about slapping a bitchy co-worker but we'd never do it, I'm still giving it a lot of thought because for some reason, it makes me feel better right now.

Anyhow, I sat down and wrote out a rather lengthy message as a rough draft, I'm a writer at heart and it just helps me to get things out.

Here's my rough draft:

"After seeing on your FB profile that you have beautiful sons, and that you are obviously very much in love with your boyfriend, I felt morally and ethically compelled to let you know what is going on.

Up until Wednesday, November 17, your boyfriend was also mine. We'd been together...this time...for 9 months, since he asked me to get back together on February 20, 2011. I joined FB for the first time on Tuesday, November 16, and looked him up...saw his wall...and saw that he was telling another female, YOU, that he loved her and that she was his freaky woman. My world pretty much fell apart, and I confronted him Wednesday morning. He broke up with me. When he did, I asked him if he was going to be with you now.

His exact words were, "She's something different."

Don't believe me? I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to, either. So here are some details that only someone intimately familiar with [his name], born on [his birthdate] in [his city] would know.

Judging by him calling you his "freaky woman", I'm guessing you know that he has a lot of kinky sexual fetishes such as [X], [X], and [X]. He's also bipolar, and about once a year, he goes into a hypersexual phase where he finds women online and uses them to satisfy his fetishes. That's usually when he breaks up with me. When the phase wears off, he comes back. That has been the pattern for almost 3 years now.

About 2 months ago, in September, I realized he was going into one of those phases. He constantly wanted me to help him get off by sending him various anime-type porn pics, or getting on webcam and showing him my breasts, or other things that I won't mention. I figured then, though I didn't want to fully admit it to myself, that he was probably cheating on me because I don't think he's capable of being with one woman during those periods. So in a way, I wasn't surprised to find out about you, but it was rather heartbreaking all the same.

Additional details: He lives with [X] in [X]. He works at [X], and he complains that his boss is a bitch who blames him whenever production is down. He works with a bunch of teenagers because they get paid lower-than-minimum-wage, and they call in sick a lot. That's why he often gets called in on his days off. He's always tired and sore and he hates it there. He wishes often that he was rich.

He likes to play a game called [X], as well as [X], and [X]. He often uses the screenname [XZ] or just [X].

He loves [sport] and [team]. Sometimes he plays poker, and he went to several races a few months ago at [location], though it kept getting rained out, which pissed him off immensely.

Convinced yet...? 8(

When I saw what he'd been saying to you, I went back over my AIM logs and formed a rather sad timeline of what he's been saying to each of us:


From your FB Profile:
About You I'm currently head over heels in love with a wonderful man, and without him, I'm incomplete.
Relationship Status In a relationship with [him]
Anniversary August 6, 2011

August 7 - via AIM
Him (12:13:55 PM) I love you so very much, be naughty for me my sexy girl
Him (12:14:02 PM) *licks her face* So mine
Me (12:14:213 PM) Always. ^,^

From your FB Wall:
Him: Love you, too, beautiful! So hot....
October 20 at 10:52am

October 22 - via AIM
Him (5:59:26 PM): I'm not going to find a woman to be with. Nor do I desire that in the least
Me (6:02:55 PM): Good, because I don't want to share you.
Him (6:28:14 PM): And that is where you'll need to trust that I will not stray
Me (6:29:25 PM): I do, to be honest...
Me (6:29:35 PM): I was just confirming that we were understanding each other on that point.
Him (6:29:44 PM): That is fully understood

From your FB Wall:
Fun fact. This chick is freaky.. I mean FREAKY! And I love her for it. If any other guy loves their freaky woman, give me a HELL YEAH!
October 23 at 9:30pm

October 28 - via AIM
Him (1:09:14 PM): Honestly, I was getting highly annoyed at being accused of
Him (1:09:21 PM): Being unfaithful or not loving you
Me (1:11:93 PM): I won't do that anymore...I trust you.
Him (1:16:47 PM): Thank you, baby girl


So...unless you're into this sort of thing...I'm sorry, but we've been played.

I'm also sincerely sorry if this hurts you, but believe me, I know the feeling right now. I feel as if my heart as been ripped from my chest. I'm 44 years old and I've never felt this strongly and deeply about a man...in fact, just a few weeks ago he told me that we have an "unbreakable bond", and I never had to worry about him leaving me again...

When I saw what he'd been saying to you, while with me, I was temporarily crushed but I'm coming to accept that he is simply a serial cheater. I deserve a man who loves ME and ONLY ME...and so do you.

Good luck to you."

As I said, I most likely won't send it, but damnit...on some level I feel she NEEDS to know these things, because she's being made a fool of, just as I was. I'm generally a compassionate, caring person and I truly detest watching someone get screwed over...

Anyhow, just venting, so glad to have a place where I can do that.

[rhomy]

Well, I know it's not easy to dump someone. It's even harder when you love him as much as you seem to love your SO.
But I think you should stop finding excuses to forgive him. I know he might not be totally conscious of what he does. But stop thinking of him for a minute. What about you? Are you willing to live the rest of your life with a guy that keeps dumping you for every stupid reason that crosses his mind?
How that affects you?
I think you deserve better. He is completely disrespectful to you (bipolar or not bipolar). He might act this way when he is out of meds, but he decided to stop taking them and by that time he didn't think about you. Or the consequences.

You should love yourself more than him. (I know that sounds like a silly self-help book phrase, but you can't care more about him than about you)
I've been in a similar situation before and all I could do was find excuses to forgive his acts, but know that I see it from other perspective, I'm grateful I got out. Because if you don't look after yourself, who will?

I hope you don't find this offensive. I'm just trying to let you know YOU DO DESERVE BETTER.

[MadMolly]

If I was TOW, I'd want to know, personally.

[Silvaria]

rhomy, I don't find it offensive in the least, I appreciate your honesty.

You're right, I am trying to find excuses, because less than 36 hours out, I still love the jerk and in fact, I was playing an online game just now and I found myself thinking of him as my boyfriend for a brief moment...reality crashing in was unpleasant, to say the least.

Yes, cheating is very disrespectful. It does say a lot about how he feels about me, deep down inside. I guess it's hard to reconcile the awesome, loving guy that he is 95% of the time with this man...the one who can lie to my face and hers (I'm assuming she doesn't know), and apparently, not feel enough remorse to STOP DOING IT.

MadMolly, that tends to be my position, to be honest...I guess maybe it's a "sisterhood" thing, but honestly, she reminds me a LOT of myself, from everything I've read and seen. If a woman found out her boyfriend was playing us both, and could have told me but chose not to...yeah, to be honest, I'd feel a little pissed.

But at the same time, I see the point of letting their relationship play out as it will, and letting her make her own mistakes.

Sigh...and the internal war wages on...thank you guys, as always, for your insights.

[Mara]

Having been the other woman [completely unknowingly], I was glad when his other girlfriend told me that he was seeing her as well.

Of course, I didn't take what she said as the gospel, but I'm intelligent enough to realize that a woman just doesn't contact someone she doesn't know out of the blue to tell complete and utter lies. At the very least, I thought he had at least led her on or there had been some type of relationship between them. I confronted the guy I was seeing and I could see it all over his face even though he denied it. Once I told him it was over, he admitted that he had been seeing this woman behind my back.

Like I said, I was extremely glad she told me because this guy was getting very serious with me [talking about moving in together, etc.] and I had no idea, feeling, or anything that he was seeing anyone else.

[weetzie]

First of all, I just want to say that you're stronger than me for all that you're putting up with.

I would send the email to TOW. She deserves to know, and you don't want others to hurt the way he's hurting you.

Honestly, I wouldn't put up with it. I'd insist he take his medicine, but you're not his mother, and you can't be certain he takes it every day all the time. So it is a sticky situation.

If it were me I would have left long ago.

[Caitlin2009]

well im sorry this has happened but honestly he's a grown adult who knows that taking his medication will help with his bi polar yet he refuses to take them, he's fully able to do so but he chooses not to. and you guys dont have a future together because he's going to continuously do this you and its just not healthy, you need to find someone whos gonna treat you better then that

[Jkrose76]

I would totally send that letter to TOW! I think she has a right to know what is going on for one, and second I understand you aren't the spitefull or revenge driven type...however I think he deserves a taste of his own medicine and the fact that you have been dealing with this for 3 years says alot about the type of person you are. It also shows how much you love him and that you will continue to defend and stand by your man through it all.
I know first hand how hard it is to leave someone you love no matter how crappy they treat you. I was in a totally dysfunctional relationship for almost 8 years and I made excuses for him no matter what he did. Not only did I love him that much but I also believed in my mind that he would at some point see his wicked ways and change. I finally got the courage to leave only after I caught him in my bed with another woman (the 3rd time BTW) and even then as much as I hated him I still loved him.
Please, at the very least give him a altimatum, let him know this is it! And by all means, let the other woman know whats going on hun!

Jennifer

[Haley53]

I hate to be so persistant in this, but I really do feel like telling her would be the wrong decision.

I'm going to call on a personal example. I was involved with someone who was very, very abusive. People were aware of this, how abusive he was, and though there were some people that rationalised his behaviour right along with me, there were some that didn't. Their accusations did not bring upon me an understanding, but rather a sharp sting of loyalty that ignored the red flags they pointed out (that I, too, had seen) and caused me to become even better than I was at manipulating the truth. It caused me to come up with arguments for the other side that I didn't believe but that could convince an eskimo to buy ice. It didn't matter how true their accusations were because there was always the "what if...". Even with the information you gave, that's information that could easily be extracted from a friendship, if not a close one, and the AIM logs? Those could be completely fabricated; it's not that hard to create your own lifelike chat logs. Do I believe that either of these are true? Not really, no, but when someone comes at you with information that you don't want to hear, painful, painful information, then you will grab and pull at every reason for why it's not true, even if in your gut, you know that it is.

What eventually got me out of that relationship was not anyone telling me what he was doing was wrong any more than it was them making excuses for him that I finally saw through. It was not my ex telling me I had to choose between them, because though I complied for a couple days, I did end up coming back threefold with the strength of my decision being I wasn't going to, and shouldn't have to, choose anyone. It wasn't even a professional stand/viewpoint, or introspection through therapy. It was when I was finally fed up with the dynamic of our relationship. It's when I finally started accepting that the signs were there (and look close enough, they are always there, though sometimes it takes a completely objective eye, months down the road, to see them), and it's when I made the decision for myself because of a conclusion I came to by myself.

Has anyone ever been in that situation?

Or perhaps, we'll take a similar situation, learning to ride a bike. How did you learn? Did you watch your mother/father do it, and then hop on a bike with no training wheels and have no issue with it, or did you fall at least a couple times before learning how to balance? Oftentimes, there's someone holding on to the back of the bike to help you in the beginning. I know for me, when they let go, it was terrifying, but lo and behold! When they let go, I could ride. And yes, I fell a few times, but practice made perfect, practice that I did and worked at despite any cuts and bruises I accumulated along the way, and trust me that I did. :P Learning to ride a bike is similar to the process one must undergo one's self. You have to be prepared to get on the bike (think about leaving the relationship), you have to be prepared to hurt, you have to be prepared to let go (of the relationship), and it's not until you finally get that one burst - and you only need one, it doesn't have to last - of courage or hope or anger or whatever would cause you to be able to get out before the hands finally come off and you soar, riding a two-wheeler. And you've learned how to ride a bike, my point of which being that if someone else were to interfere with that process, they're like the training wheels, and you won't have gone through the process, you'll simply have ridden through it completely supported by someone else's wheels, and this isn't the way to learn.

The thing is that if you're doing this for the benefit of the other woman and not what someone else mentioned (about not wanting anyone to have him if you can't, revenge, or burning bridges, as I mentioned), it's not for her benefit either. Because if you don't let her learn this one on her own, it's a mistake that she's likely to repeat. Because she didn't learn the lesson. You regurgitated her a fact that she memorised and can apply to a test as far as "I need to find a man who won't do x so he doesn't do y." She will not necessarily be able to look back objectively on her relationship to see what went wrong and where, and she will be missing out on the sense of empowerment that comes with doing something for the good of yourself. She will miss out on the most important lesson, which is actually recognising and believing and feeling through doing that you deserve better. And in my opinion, that's just robbing her. Because the situation is a shame, yes, but she won't learn if you hand the answers over to her. I won't pass a science test if someone gives me the answer key but then I'm expected to explain why each solution worked and how. :P That is the value of pain: learning. Learning a life lesson is hard, it is not easy, but it is what will prevent you from repeating it in the future (to some extent; there are other forces that can control it). That's why my opinion is don't interefere.

[LilyChiba]

Whether she accepts the information or not, if it was me, I would definitely want to know. I see the points everyone makes and they are very valid. But at the same time, if a thought is put in my head and I see what the other person is talking about, I'm liable to learn faster that something is not good for me and quit than to learn it on my own, especially with something that is so life altering as a relationship. I've had my ups and downs where people have told me things about my SO I didn't want to hear, thankfully though, none of them were true and I didn't act on it because I personally didn't see it. But that's not the case here. If it came to cheating, I would want to know. Since I've never been cheated on in a completely serious relationship (I was when I was in my first LDR, but I was young and naive...), I don't know how I'd react to it. This guy is a repeat offender. If he's not taking his meds, he's not likely to change.

[Silvaria]

Hello, everyone.

Eclaire, you do make some very, very valid points, and yes, it is important to let people learn things on their own.

However, to use the bike analogy, if you were trying to teach a small child to ride a bike, and you saw them heading towards a cliff, do you let them go over it so they can learn from it, or do you try to stop it?

I realize that's a bit extreme, but as almost everyone here has said, most of us would want to know that we were being made a fool of by a man we thought truly loved us. In my mind, she's on a direct course with that cliff, and as a fellow human, I'm not sure I can stand idly by and watch her go over the edge.

Yes, it's possible to fake chat logs, but I simply know too much. My "real" rough draft has details that I left out here, out of respect (lol) for his privacy. There's no way anyone would know these things unless they had been involved with him on an intimate level very recently. And as Mara said, there's simply no reason for someone to write a woman out-of-the-blue just to tell complete lies. If I decide to do this, and she's smart, she's going to recognize that where there is this much smoke, there is usually a great deal of fire.

If not, then I can say that I tried to help someone avoid more pain, and walk away with a clear conscience.

He was spending 3 out of 4 days with me online, so between me and work, I'm not sure when he even had time for her...I wouldn't be surprised to find out that her gut has already been telling her something. If anything, perhaps I can help her learn to listen to her gut more closely in the future...gosh knows that's what I'm walking away with.

In any case, I've decided not to do ANYTHING for a week...in fact, I'm taking a break from this entire situation. No writing posts about him, no contact with him, no looking up anything regarding him...I need to focus on finding more work in order to avoid eviction, which I am facing very soon. I need to give my head time to clear before I make any decisions that could affect my life, and the lives of others. The best way to do that is to take a mental vacation from the situation.

I'll be back in a week to let you guys know how I'm doing. Thank you all again for taking time out of your lives to give me your advice and your support. It has helped me more than I can ever say.

*Hugs*