Schengen Plan and 90 days

[Tooki]

Yes, but we contacted the Swedish Immigration Board and they told us if I was out of the country for 90 days, I could return for another 90 days. I'm pretty sure that their border control will go by that rule too. Otherwise, why would the Immigration Board tell us that? It would be redundant. With that said, I don't believe that I will have any difficulty getting into the country.

That was the point that I made before. Different countries interpret the Schengen Rules differently and some countries are less stringent with the application of the rules than others.

If Sweden is your first port of entry (where you get the stamp to enter the Schengen Zone), then follow what the Swedish Immigration Board told you. If you are flying into another country first, follow what they do.

[kria]

I am entering into the Schengen Zone in Sweden.

[Tooki]

I am entering into the Schengen Zone in Sweden.

Sweet as, just follow what the Swedish Immigration Board told you.

[Hollandia]

90 days in and 90 days out is exactly correct as long as you don't come back before the 180 days is up. This is following the up to 90 days allowed in during a 180 day period. I called the IND for NL and I follow the rules to the letter too, the Border control still has final say. I was almost denied entry last time in Rotterdam. I always make a point to add a few days bumper to keep them happy they don't like the math to be that close. I would not want to be in the airport arguing that I called the immigration board and they said this and that...good luck with that with a grumpy know-it-all border control agent. They have every right to put you right back on that plane at your expense. They don't even have to allow you to transfer through to a neighboring country. They can send you back to where you came, they are deporting you. I would make darn sure you follow the Schengen rules that cover all of EU and not hope to get a border control agent because supposedly this country is more lax in some areas according to a non provable statement you get on the phone from an agent that answers the phone in immigration and does not explain it in all it's complexities. It is really not true that each nation interprets them differently that is a violation of the Schengen agreement. That would negate the entire point of the agreement if each country had separate rules it is supposed to be universal throughout Schengen. What is true is that the border control agent in any country has final say. You are gambling if you think otherwise. The odds may be better in one country versus another, but that is all it is...odds. I have scoured the internet for information about Schengen stories and it is a law that covers all under it. Many people say they can sneek in through France but others have horror stories from being deported.


https://www.government.se/sb/d/12386

Where does the visa apply and for how long a period?
A Schengen visa is valid for a maximum of three months in a six-month period.



This link is for Sweden and that statement is listed on their site and clearly states you are allowed in for up to 90 days in a 180 day period from date of entry. As a member of Schengen these countries are required to abide by the Schengen rules. If they violate it by being too lax they can risk being booted from Schengen. I am flying into Belgium instead of NL because they are supposed to be more lax than NL, but I will still make darn sure that this rule is followed.

I have actually walked up to border control a few times with the 88 days answer to the "how long are you staying?" question they always ask. They get a whole different tone from when I told them a week or two before and each time I come back for the stamp the attitudes get worse. I don't want to scare you but I highly advise you to make sure you follow the Schengen rules every single time no matter where you land in Schengen. I believe you said that it was past the 180 day mark since you first came last, then you should be fine.

[Tooki]

As you said yourself, it comes down to the decision of the border control officer at hand. Kria's best option is to follow the guidance of the Immigration Office for the country that she will enter. It's safe to assume that the attitude of the officer will most closely follow that of his government. With that said, it will ultimately come down to the mood of the officer at the end of the day. I have dealt with Finnish immigration before and if the Swedish are anything similar to them, you should be ok as long as you follow the rules.

Hollandia, I don't think that kria is intentionally breaking the rules. Based on her itinerary, she is not breaking the Schengen Rules. If she runs into issues, it will be because the Schengen Rule is NOT applied correctly. According to the Swedish Immigration Board, she will be fine by their interpretation of the rules as well. I don't think that kria wants to or intends to break the rules either...

You also misread my use of the word 'lax'. The difference between French and Finnish customs officers is that (from my experience and what the internet has told me) the French don't ask questions whereas the Finns will generally ask you what you plan to do in the Schengen Zone, where your final destination is and other things. I'm not suggesting that Country A will allow you to break the rules but it can take one question to raise suspicion. When I flew into Paris, the officer opened up my passport and stamped it. No questions, no checking whether I had been in the Schengen Zone before. He just stamped it and let me through, in the middle of a conversation that he was having with the officer in the booth next to him.

At the end of the day, the member states still hold autonomy and thus, inconsistency will always occur. Your numbers add up kria so I highly doubt that you will be declined entry, unless you do something illegal.

[Hollandia]

As you said yourself, it comes down to the decision of the border control officer at hand. Kria's best option is to follow the guidance of the Immigration Office for the country that she will enter. It's safe to assume that the attitude of the officer will most closely follow that of his government. With that said, it will ultimately come down to the mood of the officer at the end of the day. I have dealt with Finnish immigration before and if the Swedish are anything similar to them, you should be ok as long as you follow the rules.

Hollandia, I don't think that kria is intentionally breaking the rules. Based on her itinerary, she is not breaking the Schengen Rules. If she runs into issues, it will be because the Schengen Rule is NOT applied correctly. According to the Swedish Immigration Board, she will be fine by their interpretation of the rules as well. I don't think that kria wants to or intends to break the rules either...

You also misread my use of the word 'lax'. The difference between French and Finnish customs officers is that (from my experience and what the internet has told me) the French don't ask questions whereas the Finns will generally ask you what you plan to do in the Schengen Zone, where your final destination is and other things. I'm not suggesting that Country A will allow you to break the rules but it can take one question to raise suspicion. When I flew into Paris, the officer opened up my passport and stamped it. No questions, no checking whether I had been in the Schengen Zone before. He just stamped it and let me through, in the middle of a conversation that he was having with the officer in the booth next to him.

At the end of the day, the member states still hold autonomy and thus, inconsistency will always occur. Your numbers add up kria so I highly doubt that you will be declined entry, unless you do something illegal.

I don't think she is either. I don't think she should be taking advice to not make sure she follows the "Schengen Agreement" and hope that what she is told by any immigration agent on a phone is different will hold up. This is not about your or my opinion. The border control individual that she walks up to has the the right to deem, not the countries to have set individual rules. This is about the fact that if in any Schengen country you don't follow those rules then you can be sent back home. The rest is maybe and most likely's that I would never gamble. The French border control agent would be a winning gamble for someone, but if the gamble is lost it is quite expensive.

How many times have you stayed for 3 months and came back to redo again? The words you use like..."safe to assume" and "should follow" are putting any member on here at risk to end up paying an expensive ticket ride back. The agent of any Scengen is supposed to follow Schengen rules. If you read the countries actual websites, they all list the Schengen rules. Finland and France are supposed to follow the rules the same way and if you ASSUME they won't because of "what you heard on the internet" then you are setting yourself up for possible entry denial. If you call any Schengen country immigration and if they state otherwise they are in violation of it. You can very well be told by an immigration phone agent, a member on here or 200 people's stories on the internet that is okay to push the boundaries only to show up and be sent back if you do not follow the actual Schengen rules because that Finnish, French, Greek....agent does ask questions.

The OP was confused about the Schengen rule and I have broken down the rules of this agreement. I have listed the rules from the country she is landing in and I DO have experience with the Border control agents in Schengen for the 90/180 day rules. Debates are all well and good and interesting and it is always great to prove your point but if you do not make sure to follow the Schengen rules in any Schengen country you can be denied entry. It does literally depends on what mood and what type of day your border control agent is in that day and if they are a stickler to the rules and/or if they know them and you don't then you open yourself up to that. The one that tried to deny me was new and thank God the older agent next to him did know the rules. It does not mean that that country has different interpretation of the rules. I did get in because I did follow the Schengen. If it had been 179 days since last entry, I would not have been let in.

I hope the OP follows the Schengen rules and not the hearsay. The Schengen consists of two types of borders, internal and external. It is the natural of what it is. The internal borders are to be free flow and the external are to act as one border to all non Schengen territories. If you place your gamble on the autonomy then it is still a gamble.

It is redundant to continually restate this but if you want to go to Schengen for the max time allowed it is required that you follow the 90/180 rule. While usually it makes sense to contact immigration and assume they know what is best, not for Schengen, the only thing that will matter when you show up is that the border control agent knows the rules and and that you followed them.

I will be going back (my third max ride for Schengen) for another 88 days and doing this again myself yet again. I am going to make sure wherever I land I don't go back until 180 days from the date of my last entry which was December 12th. I am not leaving till June 18th. I am leaving again within my 90 day limit on September 14th. Next time I will go back I will make sure not to come back till 180 days of June 18th and such the cycle continues. I am not going to call Belgium or France and hope they tell me I can get around part of the Schengen agreement because even if they told me they would, I could still end up being denied entry by the actual border control agent for the rightful reason that I was not following Schengen.

To put it bluntly:
Schengen rules are Schengen rules for all Schengen countries. Any inconsistencies that occurs are non intentional on the countries behalves and simply due to the human nature of the individual personalities that work in border control. While it may be more or less likely to run into some countries to lean in one direction or the other it is false to assume or depend on those. Follow the rules for Schengen in any part of Schengen and you get the best chance of being allowed multiple times for max periods. They usually look at your passport and if you don't have multiple stays of max time already in there they won't ask as many questions. If you do, they will see them and you are more likely to get the questions.

@Tooki...I understand what you meant but you are confusing the issue more. It is not a gray issue, it is black and white. There is a rule and it is for the entire Schengen territory. There is nothing to debate about it. Follow those rules or risk not getting in. You really don't have experience with this rule for multiple max entries unless you have done them. Your passport won't have the red flag of previous stamps with the dates on it and so you won't run into this issue with the border control and they will just glance and stamp. An agent talking to his fellow agent and not paying attention and stamping your passport is being quite lax at their job. The one in Ireland barely cared about mine when I stayed there the one time for a week, they are not a part of Schengen and don't care about those stamps.

@OP....I am going to go pick up my SO from the airport today, I hope you have a great trip. If you have further questions about this and are interested please feel free to PM me. I live and breathe by the Schengen. I am literally spending every legal moment allowed in NL with my SO.

[Tooki]

At what point did I recommend for the OP to break the rules. I only brought up that different countries are more scrupulous than others. I'm not saying that the French break the law, I'm saying that they make the entry process quick, easy and without questions. The OP is entering via Sweden so none of us can help her, although I am right to presume that the experience will probably mirror that of the Finns. (in which she should have no issues if she follows the rules).

Also just to clairfy, I have made one 3 week and two 3 month trips to the Schengen Zone, so don't act like I know nothing or haven't been through the same thing as you mate. Don't tell me what my passport is like or what I have and have not done until you actually know, ok?

[kria]

Well, we both agreed that the immigration board should know how the rules work. The woman he talked to said that as long as I was out of the country for more than 90 days there was no possible way I could stay for the max amount of 90 days, and, therefore, the days start over and I can stay another 90 days. I know what Sweden's immigration board's website says. However, the woman explained it to us and that's what she said.

[Tooki]

Well, we both agreed that the immigration board should know how the rules work. The woman he talked to said that as long as I was out of the country for more than 90 days there was no possible way I could stay for the max amount of 90 days, and, therefore, the days start over and I can stay another 90 days. I know what Sweden's immigration board's website says. However, the woman explained it to us and that's what she said.

That makes sense. It's another way of saying the website rules. 90 days out of 180 = 90 days in, 90 days out.

Enjoy your trip and enjoy summer, I know that I will!

[kria]

That's what I thought too, Tooki. It was just another way of stating what the website said.

Thank you! I most certainly will!! You enjoy your summer too!

[summerkid]

I hope it's okay to hijack this thread and lay out my issue.

My SO just spent the 3 months in the Schengen area, but he needs to come back in 2 weeks. He can get a study visa, but he is scheduled for a meeting on September which is way too late, as he has commitments here in europe and needs to make them. Basically, everything we read tells us that you can only stay a maximum of 90 days out of 180. I was wondering how strictly they follow that. He has good reasons to come back and once he is back he can apply for a study visa. does that matter ?
He talked to someone from the institution that is funding his year here, and who handles foreigners all the time, and they said it shouldn't be any problem and that he can enter. Right now he's still looking into things, but we are quite confused and he is in a very, very tight spot.

The other option we have planned out is, if he is denied entry, for him to travel to my country which is EU but not Schengen and I meet him there and we get married ( we are already engaged and planning to get married in september). Technically, the law says my rights of free movement will extend to him as well and he can come in for 3 months without a visa ( because he is a US citizen). Do any of you know if it matters that he just spent three months here? Do you get a clean slate if you change your status? .. and also.. if he is denied entry, is he free to travel to a non-schnegen country or does he have to go straight back home?

I'd really appreciate your adive if you have any.

[Tooki]

I hope it's okay to hijack this thread and lay out my issue.

My SO just spent the 3 months in the Schengen area, but he needs to come back in 2 weeks. He can get a study visa, but he is scheduled for a meeting on September which is way too late, as he has commitments here in europe and needs to make them. Basically, everything we read tells us that you can only stay a maximum of 90 days out of 180. I was wondering how strictly they follow that. He has good reasons to come back and once he is back he can apply for a study visa. does that matter ?
He talked to someone from the institution that is funding his year here, and who handles foreigners all the time, and they said it shouldn't be any problem and that he can enter. Right now he's still looking into things, but we are quite confused and he is in a very, very tight spot.

The other option we have planned out is, if he is denied entry, for him to travel to my country which is EU but not Schengen and I meet him there and we get married ( we are already engaged and planning to get married in september). Technically, the law says my rights of free movement will extend to him as well and he can come in for 3 months without a visa ( because he is a US citizen). Do any of you know if it matters that he just spent three months here? Do you get a clean slate if you change your status? .. and also.. if he is denied entry, is he free to travel to a non-schnegen country or does he have to go straight back home?

I'd really appreciate your adive if you have any.

In my experience, the dates of the stamps in the passport are strictly followed. I can't speak for his situation though, because I've never experienced something like that. If anything, your SO may need to apply for a 'Schengen Visa'. On the 'right of free movement' section, I don't think that any previous travel dates matter. If he is denied entry, he will probably be sent home.

Is it possible for your SO to go to a non-Schengen country and apply for the study visa there? If anything, I would get your SO to contact the embassy for your country in the US and see what they say.

[summerkid]

Is it possible for your SO to go to a non-Schengen country and apply for the study visa there? If anything, I would get your SO to contact the embassy for your country in the US and see what they say.

Thanks Tooki! good idea.. he's been calling a bunch of embassies, but it's a good to add those to the list. We've been so focused on getting my US visa we didn't realize he aldo needs one and that it's not that easy to get this time of the year.

[Tooki]

Thanks Tooki! good idea.. he's been calling a bunch of embassies, but it's a good to add those to the list. We've been so focused on getting my US visa we didn't realize he aldo needs one and that it's not that easy to get this time of the year.

I'm hoping for the best! My visa had a 'timeframe' of 3 months yet mine was approved in 3 days, so I'm wishing him luck.