Engagement over Skype?

[CynicalQuixotic]

Its illegal for him to come on a student visa if he has any intentions with me. The consequences are jail time and a steep fine. So that's out.

I do wonder why you all put so much into marriage. I put my values in love. I come from a family with divorced parents. I learned that love is the thing that matters, not the labels we put on it. I really think marriage is as big a deal as you make it. I dont think love can overcome all, logistics are very important too. However, I have reasonable ways to account for the logistics.

I also wonder how you are all so confident that it is too soon. Really you guys do not have a lot of information to make those claims except the typical evolution of events. These decisions are incredibly tailored to the individuals involved. I don't understand how everyone is willing to make such strong comments when they know so little.

First of all--why is it illegal for him to come on a student visa if he's in a relationship? Is this a Nepalese law? Jail time in which country? How would either country's government be able to enforce that?

Marriage isn't just about love--it's a legal institution that is damn hard, not to mention expensive, to get yourself out of once in. So, it's well worth it to put some time behind you in a committed relationship before you make a decision to be legally bound to someone. And we're all confident that it's too soon because people who get married after knowing each other for only a few months and stay together for the long haul are the exception and not the rule. It's a sad fact that the incredibly high divorce statistics in almost every developed country back up.

I'm sorry that not everybody is validating your decision, but seriously, read Eclaire's post. We're just trying to see through the rose-colored glasses.

[louisanna6]

I am aware there are things I do not know about my SO. I am aware that there are challenges so big in front of me that they may make all my efforts be in vain. But I am confidant that my SO and I have the skills needed to deal with these challenges in as healthy a way as possible. That to me is the important part. And that is what I know in the time I have been with him. I don't know all of his nuances, but I know our attitude and the way we deal with challenges. Those are the essential components.

I know it is hard to understand the possibility that an rational critical woman who is age 20 can exist, but here I am. If you need proof, I study Philosophy at my university. My grades are perfect. The way I have learned to survive in life is through thinking critically about my life, my studies, and my love. I am not claiming I can't make mistakes, but I do claim that I really do have some experience in the virtues of being as objective and critical as possible.

Basically you are all saying too soon. This is based on knowing how long we have been together, the fact I expressed a desire to marry, and your personal experience. That is not enough for your claims to be very strong. I respect your personal experiences, but I think it is a presumption to assume that my situation is importantly similar. But yes, I have thought a lot about the time factor. I understand that this is much sooner than would be preferred. But, I also know the underlying motivation and important justifications. So, please don't think I haven't considered this as an important factor in my decision.

I have thought through what happens if it doesn't work out. We have a plan for what he can do once he gets here. I have a secure financial situation which can accommodate him. I have budgeted it out to make sure it was reasonable.

There is no other way because he is a Tibetan refugee living in Nepal. The US government does not allow people in his situation to come here on other types of visas without some extraordinarily different circumstance than ours. I have looked at all the possibilities. Unless I go and live in Nepal for an extended period, which I have considered but don't think I can get funding for, there is no other way.

[Zephii]

Maybe I'm strange, but marriage is not just about love. There's a whole lot more than goes into it. And marriage is serious because divorce, whilst an option is difficult, expensive and carries a stigma in our society.

But that aside, you've known each other a handful of months and not all that time was spent in person either. Like Eclare said - living together CD is so much different than being together on a visit. It's EASY to keep a relationship alive a few months and it doesn't prove that your relationship is a lasting one - especially seeming it's LD and he's not in your space often enough for you to learn about and come to grips with the shit that he'll do to piss you off. (And he will, that's the nature of living with another person)

I'm not from either of your countries, but I've done the prospective marriage thing, and the working holiday thing. The red tape is terrible - but I know there are visas for a person to go from being on a holiday to being sponsored by a partner without leaving the country, so I'm wondering if you might have misunderstood the laws in your country?

I don't know. I think your "beef" with getting engaged over skype is likely your gut instinct telling you "this is a terrible idea".

[Zephii]

Ah, the refugee thing makes sense

Well... I guess the big question is: What's the hurry?

Another six months LD with him not yet enrolled in a course in your country is not going to significantly delay his life plan. Have another visit, and if you're both feeling it, get engaged, then go home and do the paperwork. Sometimes "convenient" can seem like a sign, I get that. But you know what they say about rushing and fools right?

Having good grades also does not prove you can live in the real world. I'm not one to judge you for your age because I'm not much older, and I recieved a lot of discrimination as a young person living independantly (Try renting in your own name at 17 when you don't have parents to help you. The system is whack) but I know that the people in the relationship sometimes don't see all the elements as clearly as the bystanders do. What do your family and friends - people who know you irl -say about this? Perhaps you could respect their opinion more than ours?

[CynicalQuixotic]

I know it is hard to understand the possibility that an rational critical woman who is age 20 can exist, but here I am. If you need proof, I study Philosophy at my university. My grades are perfect. The way I have learned to survive in life is through thinking critically about my life, my studies, and my love. I am not claiming I can't make mistakes, but I do claim that I really do have some experience in the virtues of being as objective and critical as possible.

Oh spare us, seriously. You being a special snowflake who gets straight As in Philosophy doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether it's a good idea for you to marry a guy you've known for a couple of months. As I said before, I'm sorry you two are in such a tough situation, but that doesn't make any of the very good advice you've received any less relevant, just contrary to what you want to hear.

[louisanna6]

I didn't ask for everyone's approval. I understand my feelings. I understand his feelings. I have logistical solutions to all of these problems. No one has expressed something I haven't already thought about.

I don't think I need everyone rejecting my decision. I have my family's support, and his family's support. I am sorry I brought this to you guys. Apparently it was a mistake.

[Haley53]

Maybe I'm strange, but marriage is not just about love. There's a whole lot more than goes into it. And marriage is serious because divorce, whilst an option is difficult, expensive and carries a stigma in our society.

But that aside, you've known each other a handful of months and not all that time was spent in person either. Like Eclare said - living together CD is so much different than being together on a visit. It's EASY to keep a relationship alive a few months and it doesn't prove that your relationship is a lasting one - especially seeming it's LD and he's not in your space often enough for you to learn about and come to grips with the shit that he'll do to piss you off. (And he will, that's the nature of living with another person)

I'm not from either of your countries, but I've done the prospective marriage thing, and the working holiday thing. The red tape is terrible - but I know there are visas for a person to go from being on a holiday to being sponsored by a partner without leaving the country, so I'm wondering if you might have misunderstood the laws in your country?

I don't know. I think your "beef" with getting engaged over skype is likely your gut instinct telling you "this is a terrible idea".

I agree with this.

I'm not saying you're not a rationally, critically thinking woman. So am I. So are some other people on this forum, like CynicalQuixotic, if you've taken the time to get to know her, and I believe she's only a year older than I am. I'm saying that there is actually a physiological developmental difference in the brain of someone who's 20 and in the brain of someone who's, say, 27, not to mention life experiences. Being smart, mature, rational, and a critical thinker does not mean you're beyond your development.

But you will do as you will do. We're simply sharing our opinions on the situation. Even if they weren't directly asked for, it's a part of what hashing things out with strangers is about. You can choose to listen or not, but there are some people on here, like Moon, for example, who have life experience that you don't (I respect her greatly for her experiences and wisdom), and some people who understand that love and marriage are about the good, yes, but also the bad and the ugly. We're giving you something to consider, not trying to dictate your final decision.

EDIT -- I am sorry you feel the way you're feeling. Please understand that most of our intentions are in the right place. We're sharing things from our experiences, from what we know, from what we see, yes, and what we see is limited, but you're also only basing your decision off your experiences and what you know. As a philosophy major, I'm sure you know that it's all relative. So as I said, you can choose to listen or not, but this community will only ever give you honesty.

[Xanahtas]

Marriage is huge, expensive and complicated. I completely agree with what everyone else has said. Its too much too quickly. It doesnt matter how much support you have from people, it doesnt mean it will work out in your favour. Why rush it? Get to know each other more and think about it all later on when you next meet. You may have good grades but people still make mistakes. And in a few years time this may turn out to be one of your mistakes. And of course it may also be one of the best things you did. But you may find when you two start living together you find your differences and that could break down the relationship. I just think you two still need time to think about everything and leave marriage for a while yet.
But as people who have all been in this situation - and have the expereince of wanting to marry and have been in longer relationships, we're trying to point out that its probably a better idea to wait a while before you make this huge commitment to eachother. Just enjoy being worry free for a while.

[Moon]

Hey, whatever. Take the advice or don't, it's your life. Your philosophy classes and grades don't mean shit outside of college nor do they indicate any level of maturity. If you were honestly comfortable about this situation, you wouldn't have started this thread, so drop the defensive, know-it-all attitude and at least take into consideration the advice people have taken time out of their day to give you. None of us had to, and we only did it out of concern for your well-being. Also, drop the whole "nobody understands this situation" crap, I'm 41 years old, I've been married and divorced twice, and have a daughter older than you are, I've learned a few things in my time and your experience just isn't that unique and special. There are many, many people on this site who's situations are equally as difficult; in case you didn't notice, a good number of us are involved in international relationships and are completely aware of their challenges.

If you don't want opinions and advice, why did you post? People only jump in this strongly in this forum when it's felt to be necessary. You might think your critical thinking and logic is totally correct, but frankly, at 20, you simply don't have the life experience and wisdom to make that claim. There are SO many things you don't even know to consider yet.

(This isn't a slam against younger people, your 20's is the time when you start getting this crazy thing called life worked out It's a time when you get to make mistakes and learn from them, and to really start figuring out who you are. It's an exciting time, so make the best of it!)

[SquishyLove]

My SO lives in Nepal. I won't get to see him until about June 2012.

I want to bring him home with me on a fiance visa. I feel like he's been getting me to think along those lines for a few months now. At first I was hesitant because I am only 20 and I just wasn't sure what the family and everything would think. But, as time has moved forward, I've really grown quite comfortable with he idea of being with him for my whole life. And I know he feels the same.

Having said that, we never officially proposed or anything yet. We kinda both agreed that the fiance visa was the best, and we share the relevant feelings about being married. I know we both have that commitment there, so the engagement is really just a formality.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure it is an important formality in terms of getting the visa. But, the only way this is going to go down given the time frame we want, is if the proposal happens over skype. I'm not super endeared to this whole engagement thing, but I really do not like the idea of being proposed to over skype.

Any advice on how I can get over my beef with a Skype proposal?

I wasn't able to understand by your post if you had been with your SO in person or not, but you need to supply proof that you've seen him in person sometime in the last 2 years prior to applying for a K-1 visa for an alien fiance. Photos of you two together, boarding passes, and stamps in the passport of whoever did the travelling to visit. USCIS does not care how you two decided to get married. They mostly care that you have a bona fide relationship, and that you have all the correct evidence which is required to submit to USCIS along with the I-129f petition, and let's not forget that lovely $340.00 filing fee!

EDITED to add:

Just shook off enough laziness to go back and read more details of your posts...

I'm going through this process with my fiance, and I'm not going to tell you what to do with your life, but I will say that you need to do a TON more research if you decide to go through with this. Seriously, VisaJourney.com has TONS of guides on each type of visa process. Read them, read some posts on there, and you'll realize that you absolutely do not need a lawyer. It won't make the process go any faster. It's going slower than 5-6 months for many right now because USCIS is way behind on family and marriage-based visas right now. My fiance and I have been waiting for almost 6 months since I submitted my petition.

Others have offered you the advice to get to know him better before you decide to get married, etc., and you seemed to get pretty defensive about it. That being said, I'll offer just practical advice about this visa.

Getting a student visa for the purpose of visiting with or living with an SO isn't advisable, as USCIS looks down on any form of misrepresentation. So if your intent is to marry, the K-1 visa (form I-129f) is the way to go. You will need to provide supplements to this petition, but if you have a brain and can read directions, you and him can compile these things together while visiting and make sure you have all your i's dotted and t's crossed (my fiance and I spent a few long afternoons filling in all forms and doing all this stuff together). There is a $340.00 filing fee as well, but that's a lot cheaper if you're not blowing thousands of dollars on a lawyer who won't do anything special for you, only fill out the forms that you could fill out yourself.

As far as any "red flags" the consulate may pick up on, it's up to you and him to compile enough evidence of a relationship, and not just long-distance correspondence but evidence of spending time in person. From what I know, USCIS doesn't care about engagement stuff like rings, photos, announcements, or how it was decided to marry. What they want to know is that you both intend to marry one another within 90 days of his arrival in the US (fiance(e) letters of intent, signed and dated).

After your petition is looked over, you may be issued a "request for further evidence" of something they want to see or you may have missed in applying initially. It's usually pretty clear-cut what they want, and they give you a deadline. It's usually something most people can handle by that deadline. If you're lucky, you get approved with no RFE (request for further evidence), and then you'll need to both pass background checks through the National Visa Center (NVC, part of homeland security). That could take anywhere from a few days to a few months. Then, once he and you pass that, he'll get to make an appointment at the US Embassy in Nepal for an interview. Here is where the decision to let him come here takes place. Sometimes, the consulate officer can be rude and mean and just decide they don't think your relationship is legit. It has happened, but that's usually not the case. The officer is, however, often trained to pick up traits of what could be immigration fraud (greencard marriages). They do happen, and the officer's job is to ask the person questions and see the evidence to decide if the couple's intentions are legit.

I've heard that they'll even sometimes ask something like, "If you saw your fiancee only from the shoulders down, how would you be able to tell it was her?" They of course don't know the answer to that, but they're testing the prospective K-1 visa holder's reaction to said questions. If the person gets all shifty and nervous they usually get suspicious, for example. If a person can answer with confidence a personal question about their fiance without being nervous (the officer won't know what the fiance looks like naked of coruse), then it looks better. It's good for you guys to really think about this and understand what the process will be like.

You really don't need a lawyer, unless you two had a really complicated case, like if you'd brought someone else over on a K-1 and the marriage failed, or if he had a previous marriage and needed divorce verification, or a number of other circumstances that might make it a "difficult case."

Another thing I'll bring up is that the journey is not a short or cheap one. You're in a relationship where you'll need to prove your love to consulate officers, who aren't so sentimental and warm/fuzzy always, for years, until he becomes a US Citizen. Even after you marry, they're on the lookout for immigration fraud, so you have to keep records of every joint account, have him on the lease with you, etc., as well as letters from family and friends stating that you two are married and living together. Sometimes you'll need to go through more interviews when he's applying for adjustment of status so he can become a legal permanent resident after you two marry. They might take you into two, separate rooms and ask you some questions about each other, and ask the same questions to see if one of you will answer differently, like, "What movie did you guys last watch?" or "What's in your fridge right now?" Just things like that these are all questions I've seen posters on the Visa Journey forums saying they were asked, btw). On top of that, every stage of the game comes with big fees. The journey from visa-holder to citizen is an expensive one!

Speaking of expenses, you'll need to prove you can sponsor him with your income. You'll have to make 125% above the poverty level for a household of two, and if you make less than that, you'll need to find a joint sponsor. In my case, my parents happily jumped on board to sponsor us. The reason for this is that the USCIS wants to make sure immigrants won't become a public charge by applying for welfare or other public assistance. If an immigrant does apply, they hit up the sponsor/joint sponsor for money to pay for these benefits. So it's something else to consider, and you and your co-sponsor if you need one will both need to supply tax transcripts, check stubs, a letter from your employer proving employment, and other evidence of income, as well as a form called "affidavit of support." You'll need one for his interview at the embassy, and one when you and him go to apply for adjustment of status.

I strongly suggest you check out Visa Journey and know all the steps well before you decide to embark on this journey, and be prepared for any and all variables. I also advise you not to waste money on an attorney unless you have an especially complicated case, because it's all stuff you can do yourself if you sit down with all the forms and do it.

Also, maybe you'll be able to spend more than a short holiday with him in person and decide if you can live with him CD day to day first.o

Also, just to add a little of my personal experience in here, I am willing to relocate to Russia to be with my guy should USCIS be totally mean to us and not issue him a visa. When we started the process of closing the distance, we worked together to decide which place would benefit us both the best. We were actually undecided for several weeks because there were advantages and disadvantages to both and we wanted to make the best decision for both of us. And I still know that even though the USA is OUR first choice (which we decided together after a LOT of talking and me also living for some time with him in Russia), Russia is still where I will go should USCIS somehow deny his visa. Despite the language barrier, despite some difficulties in assimilating to a foreign culture, and all of that, I would pack up and move to be with him, because I know beyond a shadow of any doubt that I can trust him to help me and care for me during the process, and that I would be ok there. Are you confident that you could move to Nepal to be with him and trust him to help you learn the language and assimilate to the culture, and to take care of you during a time you'd be dependent because of the language barrier? That's definitely something I'd think about first.

[Lizzie2579]

Woahh, I'm shocked at some of the comments on here. I completely understand people's opinions but some of them are getting a little nasty. I understand your situation, I am with a Turkish guy who is currently in the army for 5 months, we have been together for 7 months and have spent about 20 days actually together. I am 24. I spent 10 days at his home and met his whole family and to be honest, I can see myself marrying him. He wants to move to England, his english is very good anyway but he wants to be fluent and get a job over here and possibly run a business together. So many people tell me i'm crazy, that I don't know enough about him and whilst I would disagree with some of the statements people make we have decided to wait until he lives here before we get married. We plan to either have a long engagement or do the whole thing when he lives in england which wont be for another 2 years at least making me 26. We realise, we are actually making things harder for ourselves by doing this because he will have to come on a work visa or a fiancee visa and I am a little uncomfortable with the fiance visa because you have to get married within 6 months and he cant work. The only reason i am uncomfortable with this is because i know exactly what people will think, especially as he's Turkish and they have such a bad reputation!
Reading your story I have to agree with certain comments, have you really got a proper practical plan for the future? Does he have ideas for a career and can you live together, affording the rent etc. It sounds like you're being sensible about it but if you really, truly have a proper plan for the future and if there is no other way to get him to the US other than a fiance visa then I really wish you all the luck in the world and I hope you prove people wrong!
Keep us updated with how it all goes!

[lucybelle]

Okay I'm not going to burn on your relationship, but just saying-- if a few people on this online forum think that this marriage could be a sham, what do you think the US government will think? You've only been together for a few months, I highly doubt that you'll get a visa. You have pictures together? You need proof that you've LIVED together. That you've shared finances and responsibilities and leases. A couple photoshopped I <3 U pictures are not going to cut it. And this is just the logistical side. Check out visajourney.com A fiance visa will run you over $1000 and take around 7 months, if not longer. Then you have to get married in 90 days, then file ANOTHER form for more money. Are the two of you financially ready to do this? And that's even if you get it.

[SquishyLove]

Lucybelle, you saying that they have to prove they've lived together or are able to prove that they can manage a household budget is incorrect. They do have to prove that they've been together in person in the last 2 years. This of course can be just for visits and not for longer living situations. If the US Embassy expected every couple to have actually lived together in a semi-permanent situation first, managing finances together, very few people would be allowed to come here on K-1 visas. There do need to be ample photos of the couple together in person (not shopped of course), as well as other documentation that visit happened. Furthermore, the petitioner (person bringing their fiance/e here) needs to prove they, or them and a co-sponsor, bring in at least 125% of the poverty level to assure that the beneficiary (the person coming here to marry) can be sponsored. I don't make enough money, for example, so my parents are my co-sponsors. But to say that a couple will have to prove they're mature enough to handle a household budget is inaccurate.

I'm a seasoned member of Visa Journey myself (going through this process without support SUCKS ), and plenty of fiance/es of members there have been brought over after the couple only visited a few times and for maybe a week at a time or a weekend here and there when they could afford it. The US government absolutely does not require that you've lived together. Marriage often happens within our own borders without the couple living together first (although this practice is somewhat old-fashioned, it still happens). They want to see you have a bona fide relationship with ample evidence of frequent contact as well as evidence of being together in person in the last 2 years. Of course the more visits the better, and longer visits or even staying for some months look much better, but it doesn't mean that shorter or fewer visits bar someone from being brought over. What the consulate officers care about is the relationship being genuine.

Furthermore, I will not jump to the conclusion that this guy wants a green card marriage. I'm not in this relationship so I have no idea what the guy's intentions are. My only advice to the OP is to know for sure that this is her LIFE PARTNER, and that if need-be, she could or would be willing to move to Nepal to be with him and that he would welcome her living in and relocating to Nepal and would help her assimilate and care for her while she's learning the native language (and by "care for" I mean "watch out for" - my Russian just simply isn't good enough for me to be independent in Russia until I can have much more study and practice, and so I would be in a dependent situation for a time living there, and I can solidly trust that my man is completely up for the task of helping me assimilate!). My personal opinion is that a healthy relationship involves a balance of give-and-take and both partners should be willing to move to one another rather than one person expecting the other to move to them, or one person pushing to move and not allowing the other to. My fiance and I were weighing both countries as options and I would have thought it strange if he pushed really hard to come to America and didn't welcome me to Russia as well...that's all I was saying. I was in no way implying that the guy wants a green card marriage since I have no idea who these people are and it's not my place to call it.

[Yaaamiii]

Everything already being said, I'm not trying to trash your relationship or anything, as I am not one to do so since I don't know your situations aside from what you've said. I will have to agree, however, that the few months that you two have been dating is a very short period of time. There's something called the honeymoon stage. It wears off eventually. My SO and I have been together for close to three years (four months short of it), and I feel that while I would love to marry him tomorrow, I'm just not ready. I have to finish college and become stable with my life first. I'm not mature enough to handle being married yet, though maybe I may think I am since I'm a pretty independent person compared to most of my friends. And I'm only a year older than you. Everyone's honeymoon stage wears off. My SO seemed to be somewhat different after that stage. Eventually he'll become very comfortable with you. Maybe then you may see what we're all referring to. Best of luck, honestly.

[redheadvulcan]

okay, I agree with...

Okay, I'll be the one to say this.


...The wording of this paragraph concerns me--he's been "getting you to think" about marriage?
... the hastiness in which marriage is entering the equation is a bit of a red flag for me, honestly.