Passion?

[Haley53]

Having been in two very passionate relationships, one abusive and very unhealthy, and the other being with my current SO, these are my thoughts.

There's passion and then there's an unhealthy need for drama and chaos. When you need to fight to feel passion, it's no longer about the relationship, it's about keeping things on the edge and interesting for yourself. Passion shouldn't be destructive. In the movies, they make couples who bicker like wet cats and then make love the shorthand for passion. In reality, that sort of behaviour can quickly tip into abuse. You become addicted to it, then numb to it, and it escalates as you need to make your fights more vicious and prolonged to get that hit of euphoria. You start crossing lines you never dreamed you would. Boundaries disappear, and respect goes out the door. When you need this sort of drama to keep your interest in a relationships, you'll find yourself either in an abusive situation (as either the abused or abuser) or having multiple volatile relationships that never work out.

You can't base a relationship on passion, even healthy passion. Healthy passion is a wonderful thing, but it comes and goes. There's a reason the most successful relationships are based on friendship -- because even when the passion fades and you're sick of tripping over his socks in the bathroom and the baby's been sick for 2 weeks and won't stop crying -- you have a friend to turn to.

If you both feel the need to fight to feel passion and neither of you can see having a relationship without that sort of passion, I would suggest one or both of you speaks to a therapist to figure out why, because it just isn't healthy or sustainable.

<3! Nice to see you!

But this. Very much this.

[Deleted]

Gemini here! supposedly we are extra volatile. I do not know if I believe in it too much but at least the volatile and changing part is veeeery true. My SO is Cancer and he does not look passionate with his ever-calm look, but those who know him know he IS passionate. So blend my volativity and his passion and you get...something rather strange, not because we fight but because we have very strong emotions. We do not have strong arguments though...meaning we do not really hurt one another. I've never been mad at him or vice-versa. But when we have our highs, we are VERY high!

I do find the ever-rainbows-and-flowers couples kind of boring, although I do believe there is a limit that passion should have. When a couple constantly fights or hurt one another and make each other feel down very frequently, then it becomes unhealthy. When arguments turn into bad fights (with this I mean having to insult one another and stuff of sorts) then it is too much. There is a difference between being passionate and being emotionally unstable and one should not cross it.

If there is love and you are willing to care about your SO, and your highs last longer (way longer) than your lows, I would not worry

[Rugger]

ETA: I wanted to add to Rugger's "I like men who have fight in them, not met who let me walk all over them." This is where I also disagree. Except for the rough patch we went through after his mother passed, my partner has been very good about hardly raising his voice at me. He does have a habit of cursing when angry and that he has worked on, because I find it hurtful and damaging and have told him that it's a dealbreaker if it continues. Yet without arguing, without cursing, without raising his voice, he is still assertive. Lacking "fight" as people on this thread are using it does not directly equate to letting people walk all over them. I'm someone who will walk over someone who simply rolls over and lets me, primarily because half the time, I don't recognise I'm doing it. I'm a strong, assertive personality and need someone equally as assertive to be happy with. But both my boyfriend and I manage to be assertive and stick to our guns while still being able to communicate and compromise if necessary. You can still be strong, bold, and assertive without turning to fighting. I don't believe fighting is unhealthy, but I believe that if it happens every time you're working out discrepancies, then the communication is lacking.

I should have worded this differently. I don't like men who yell at me or who pick fights just of the sake of fighting. I've been through that. I like men who with argue with me, who like to debate, who won't just roll over. That's what I meant by "fight", not yelling like the OP's situation.

[Haley53]

I should have worded this differently. I don't like men who yell at me or who pick fights just of the sake of fighting. I've been through that. I like men who with argue with me, who like to debate, who won't just roll over. That's what I meant by "fight", not yelling like the OP's situation.

Oh, okay. That I understand more. I misinterpreted what you meant by "fight."

[Deleted]

Reading what others said above... I agree with those who say that picking fights on purpose to have some passion is rather unhealthy.

By the sort of ever-rainbows couples I mean are those who have disagreements and then there is one of them who always backs up with "whatever you want, my love". That's too much. I prefer knowing they will defend what they believe and get to a better resolution afterwards. That's arguing for the good. Picking up fights on purpose...is another.

Now...there is positive passion I guess? Stong, fiery but positive feelings... Like you can have extremely high points in a relationship but perhaps the toxic low parts are unnecessary.

[Ninjamonkeys]

HBB here, yes I'm posting, a rare occurrence in these parts and to be honest I'm not sure what more I can add to this discussion except to clarify a few things from my point of view.

I'm fairly sure we don't have to fight to attain these "highs". It's true we do have these highs after a fight but we do have these when we're together all the time. Maybe the distance means we have to fight to attain them, who knows? I really made this post because during the reading of this topic I began listening to this song and thought I'd share it coz it has a similar tone [though the lyrics don't literally translate to our relationship]

[WakeUpSusie]

[COLOR="#008000"] I'm fairly sure we don't have to fight to attain these "highs". It's true we do have these highs after a fight but we do have these when we're together all the time. Maybe the distance means we have to fight to attain them, who knows?

If you don't think you need to fight to attain the highs, you guys need to work together to find a way to connection emotionally and "passionately" without resorting to such vicious fighting. Unfortunately, you don't have the option of being together all the time right now so this is absolutely critical if you don't want your relationship to go up in fire and brimstone. If you aren't able to figure it out (which I feel you can with sincere effort from both parties), your relationship will become extremely unhealthy and both of you will inevitably end up heartbroken. You are not starcrossed lovers with the weight of the world against you; you are two very real people who have the ability to make this work if you are able, and willing, to make healthy decisions for your relationship.

No relationship, long distance or otherwise, should rely on fighting to keep things interesting. Ever. Distance is never an excuse for unhealthy relationship habits.


I wish you both the best of luck!

[Haley53]

If you don't think you need to fight to attain the highs, you guys need to work together to find a way to connection emotionally and "passionately" without resorting to such vicious fighting. Unfortunately, you don't have the option of being together all the time right now so this is absolutely critical if you don't want your relationship to go up in fire and brimstone. If you aren't able to figure it out (which I feel you can with sincere effort from both parties), your relationship will become extremely unhealthy and both of you will inevitably end up heartbroken. You are not starcrossed lovers with the weight of the world against you; you are two very real people who have the ability to make this work if you are able, and willing, to make healthy decisions for your relationship.

No relationship, long distance or otherwise, should rely on fighting to keep things interesting. Ever. Distance is never an excuse for unhealthy relationship habits.


I wish you both the best of luck!

Very much this.

Another thing I want to add is what happens when the high wears off when you're together? For example, my partner and I do not fight during visits. But though I don't expect us to become fighting machines when living together, I do expect that there will be more disagreements when that honey-Ihaven'tseenyouinforever-moon passion wears off. :/ The more comfortable we become with one another, we'll likely become more open to discussing how he doesn't like the way I leave my towels on the floor as opposed to hanging them up to dry and how I don't like the way he doesn't wash the toothpaste out of the sink after he brushes his teeth (made up examples here). There will also be moments along the way where one of us ends up stressing out and the other isn't sure how to handle it. We'll see each other at our best, we'll both be in love, but we'll see each other at our worst too. My point of this is that, like I said, passion comes and goes. Whenever something becomes comfortable or what you're used to, the passion is naturally going to fade. Once you've lived together a year or so, that honeymoon phase is going to wear off. You're not going to have those highs all the time. That's normal, and it's okay, but it's not something that's going to last forever.

The fact you feel the need to bicker and argue "due to the distance" is still not about passion, and it's still not healthy. The one thing that I think distance relationships do that maybe close-distance relationships don't is they really point out where there are issues/errors in communication a lot sooner. You and Jezah are not communicating effectively. There is no other way around it. If you are both pitching such attitudes that you attempt to hurt and destroy one another in an argument, when you're breaking up because that's what would hurt the worst and it's something you'll simply "work out tomorrow," that's when there is an issue with communication and that issue with communication may not surface when you're together during visits or even when you're together living with one another, but it will surface at some point, more than likely between year one and two, potentially in year three, but it will surface. Working on finding ways to better communicate through the arguments and, maybe more importantly, learning to love your relationship even when it's not on a euphoric high, is what is going to provide you with a solid foundation, else you're both going to be moving in together and maybe even marrying with a ticking time bomb in your wake, to put it perfectly bluntly.

[Jezah]

See, I don't think us fighting is us NOT communicating...its the opposite. We both immediately voice issues we have a unfortunately due to us both being very stubborn we sometimes have huge fights to resolve them. However keep in mind they do get resolved, just in a very loooooong and sometimes quite heated argument. Maybe that is where the 'high' comes from, is because the fights are never about nothing, they are always because of an issue...and in our own way we resolve those issues in a fight therefore leaving the argument feeling relieved since its resolved. We never leave angry, or try not to (a few stray times when he was too tired he cut the argument short and let me steam overnight...but he learned that made a bigger fight in the AM) and always grow from these fights.

We hardly ever fought when he was here, I don't think it was the honeymoon stage issue since he lived with me for 2 months and on occasion we did disagree....but we usually resolved it without a fight. I think the distance has made it so that small issues blow up into fights more often, since we do have a intense amount of passion and frankly it is hard to get out from 3000 miles apart. Our happy non fighting moments do farrrrr outweigh the arguments though, more so when he is here but also LD. We play games, talk, joke and have fun and overall are a pretty normal and cute couple, but we argue and when we do its to the extreme. Oddly we hardly ever yell, more sarcasm than anything. If he actually GETS me to yell he knows he royally pissed me off and vice versa.

@ Rugger, somehow I knew you were a Scorpio from the second I saw your profile and tickers, you just have the Scorpio vibe. I agree with you on men with fight, I was with a puppy dog of a guy for 4 years and was criminally bored. I need someone who can take my overtly strong personality and not roll over, but give me some fire back. Hence why I am with another Scorpio, we are both firey and have a lot of fight in us...but it also leads to this 'issue' if you want to call it that. Neither of us backs down easily, so it takes an all out assault sometimes to wear down the others defense enough for them to see they were wrong.

[Malaga]

It bothers me that nice guys are seen as spineless guys. Spineless guys are a completely different category, they like to call themselves nice guys when they're actually doormats, and then they're like, oh it's true nice guys finish last. Actually, nice guys get ahead because everyone likes them. Because they're fair and kind and people feel comfortable being around them. They make friends not enemies, they're reliable, they don't burn bridges. A nice guy doesn't roll over but he stands up for what he believes in. But he argues your opinion, not you, he doesn't look to score points over you, make you feel like a loser, doesn't purposely make hurtful remarks or try to emotionally manipulate you into giving in.

You can be nice and still be assertive, and passionate too. I prefer my guy to be passionate too, but in the sense -- he can't wait to see me, he lusts after me, he'll do whatever it takes to overcome the obstacles in our way, passionate about his beliefs and interests, stuff like that.

Not passionate as in passionately hanging up on me or passionately raising his voice at me, or passionately throwing out sarcastic/hurtful comments whenever we have an issue to settle. Fights can't be always be avoided and sometimes they shouldn't, but if it's a way of dealing with conflict then it's detrimental in the long run.

It's romantic and exciting to think "us against the world, and each other sometimes" and it's fun and games if it's just you two. But as someone who grew up with a bunch of passionate Scorpios in the immediate family and watched passionate arguments over every single issue, I can tell you that if you plan to settle down and have kids together, please learn to control it for the sake of your future family. You may be fascinated with that sort of passion but it is highly distressing and exhausting not just to you two in the long run, but to everyone around you, especially those who depend on you for emotional stability.

[Haley53]

It bothers me that nice guys are seen as spineless guys. Spineless guys are a completely different category, they like to call themselves nice guys when they're actually doormats, and then they're like, oh it's true nice guys finish last. Actually, nice guys get ahead because everyone likes them. Because they're fair and kind and people feel comfortable being around them. They make friends not enemies, they're reliable, they don't burn bridges. A nice guy doesn't roll over but he stands up for what he believes in. But he argues your opinion, not you, he doesn't look to score points over you, make you feel like a loser, doesn't purposely make hurtful remarks or try to emotionally manipulate you into giving in.

You can be nice and still be assertive, and passionate too. I prefer my guy to be passionate too, but in the sense -- he can't wait to see me, he lusts after me, he'll do whatever it takes to overcome the obstacles in our way, passionate about his beliefs and interests, stuff like that.

Not passionate as in passionately hanging up on me or passionately raising his voice at me, or passionately throwing out sarcastic/hurtful comments whenever we have an issue to settle. Fights can't be always be avoided and sometimes they shouldn't, but if it's a way of dealing with conflict then it's detrimental in the long run.

It's romantic and exciting to think "us against the world, and each other sometimes" and it's fun and games if it's just you two. But as someone who grew up with a bunch of passionate Scorpios in the immediate family and watched passionate arguments over every single issue, I can tell you that if you plan to settle down and have kids together, please learn to control it for the sake of your future family. You may be fascinated with that sort of passion but it is highly distressing and exhausting not just to you two in the long run, but to everyone around you, especially those who depend on you for emotional stability.

This.

I also want to add that living together for two months is nothing. :P Even after a year, you're generally only beginning to make the transition from honeymoon (honeymoon doesn't mean all rainbows and butterflies and no disagreements/arguments) to comfortable. I would guess this is truer of LDRs, where visits are all you have, because they're about reigniting the chemistry and the passion that you have in person. Each visit is almost like a "honeymoon," even if visits also get progressively more comfortable. I'm simply pointing out that there's a reason why people, who have closed the distance and who haven't, say that living together cannot be expected to be like visits, and I'm also pointing out that there's a general timeline to things such as living with one another. Of course there will be only disagreements in two month visit, but when it comes to actually living together, you're going to have to learn to communicate more effectively.

Given your response, let me re-phrase then. It's not that you're not communicating (being able to voice issues is great); it's that you're not doing it effectively. Ironically, in one of my courses on humanistic psychology, we ended up discussing existentialism, and with that love and choice, "I-Thou" relationships versus "I-It" relationships. While I wouldn't say you have an I-It relationship (mechanical), I wouldn't say you have an I-Thou relationship. I-Thou relationships are relationships in which there is mutual vulnerability, mutual respect, and mutual communication. In existentialism, it's believed that to have the intense and fiery love you describe, you also have to accept that there's the potential for a really intense and fiery anger, also - the idea that you can't have one side of the coin without the other - but that doesn't mean you should let it get out of control. Having an I-Thou relationship with someone is not saying you can never get angry, never voice concerns or issues you have, etc. Having an I-Thou relationship means that yes you can get angry, but you get angry with respect. Getting angry is fine. Voicing issues is fine. I think with being able to voice the issues, you're a step ahead of a lot of people. But taking intentional shots to hurt one another is not fine. Playing games and doing some of the things that have been described is not fine. It is not communication. It is not having respect (or love/care, really) for one another.

And I would still disagree that even if LD makes it hard to express that passion, fighting is the way to go about outletting it.

However, if you're happy with the arrangement, all I can do is tell you the same thing as Malaga. I simply wanted to counter with that I'm talking about a lack of effective communication (which, by the way, doesn't mean there will never be arguments, either), not a lack of communication, and that I see the love in your relationship, but not so much the respect.

[Malaga]

I also want to add that living together for two months is nothing. :P Even after a year, you're generally only beginning to make the transition from honeymoon (honeymoon doesn't mean all rainbows and butterflies and no disagreements/arguments) to comfortable. I would guess this is truer of LDRs, where visits are all you have, because they're about reigniting the chemistry and the passion that you have in person. Each visit is almost like a "honeymoon," even if visits also get progressively more comfortable. I'm simply pointing out that there's a reason why people, who have closed the distance and who haven't, say that living together cannot be expected to be like visits, and I'm also pointing out that there's a general timeline to things such as living with one another. Of course there will be only disagreements in two month visit, but when it comes to actually living together, you're going to have to learn to communicate more effectively.

This is true. It doesn't even matter if the visit lasts for 2 months or 6 months, whenever it's a visit, it means one of you is essentially on holidays. One of you doesn't have to go to work every day, doesn't have a schedule to follow, doesn't have to provide for the household, is removed from any distressing family situation or any expectations really. One of you doesn't have anything else to do but to be there for the other. And in that respect visits are nothing like the real life. They are very important of course, but it is the long distance part that resembles more like the reality. Because while you're apart, you are both back to your real lives and have to deal with real life shit. With jobs, stress, expectations, conflicting schedules, family dramas, money issues, you name it. And if real life shit makes you explode at each other over distance, rest assured it will make you explode at each other in person too. If you want this transition to go well, now is the time when you should be focusing on a different approach.

[CynicalQuixotic]

If he actually GETS me to yell he knows he royally pissed me off and vice versa.

I really, really, really dislike this rhetoric. You are in control of your own emotional responses. It is not another person's fault how you react to a situation. You have the ability to realize that this is an unhealthy pattern in your relationship and mitigate your reaction. Please don't detract from moving forward in your relationship with astrology rationalization. I really do feel this whole "we're Scorpios!" thing is an excuse to not really look at how you respond to each other and attempt to find healthier ways of relating to each other when you disagree.

[Minerva]

This romanticisation of fighting disturbs me. Life isn’t a romcom movie. Feeling like one needs to wear the other down in long dramatic arguments sounds exhausting, not passionate. Frankly it also sounds childish, as does the idea that living with someone for two months gives you a fair idea of what living with that person will really be like, as does looking to horoscopes to explain what’s going on in relationship. I don’t mean to be insulting when I say this; different relationships function in different ways and can still be very healthy. But I honestly cannot see FIGHTING! = PASSION! = AWESOME! as anything BUT childish and unhealthy, and I cannot see how one can sustain a relationship like this for very long before one partner tires of it and wants out.

But at the end of the day, it's your relationship and if this is what works for you, it does.

[lucybelle]

This romanticisation of fighting disturbs me. Life isn’t a romcom movie. Feeling like one needs to wear the other down in long dramatic arguments sounds exhausting, not passionate. Frankly it also sounds childish, as does the idea that living with someone for two months gives you a fair idea of what living with that person will really be like, as does looking to horoscopes to explain what’s going on in relationship. I don’t mean to be insulting when I say this; different relationships function in different ways and can still be very healthy. But I honestly cannot see FIGHTING! = PASSION! = AWESOME! as anything BUT childish and unhealthy, and I cannot see how one can sustain a relationship like this for very long before one partner tires of it and wants out.

But at the end of the day, it's your relationship and if this is what works for you, it does.

Glad to have Minerva back. She hit the nail on the head with this one.

"Scorpios fight", "boys will be boys", and any other lame excuse for actions are just that.. lame. Everyone is in control of what they do and how they act (just like CQ said). Fighting a lot means a lot of conflict and a lot of negative energy. I like to surround myself with positive people. I think you should do the same.