He rationalizes EVERYTHING

[Jezah]

Me and HBB have been doing ok, but a new, or maybe newly noticed issue has come up and it is bothering me. I need advice on how to approach it with him in a way he understands, and maybe a solution?

HBB essentially has become unreliable and untrustworthy. I mean I already have standing trust issues with him from June when he cancelled his trip last second, but this is on top of that. Essentially he will find a reason or excuse for every crappy thing he does or every promise he breaks. Example, we have a long standing tradition of "date night" which is actually an entire day we spend together on cam (with exception of mealtimes) watching movies, playing games and just spending one on one quality time. We had done it for over a year but had stopped after the huge fight and only resumed a month ago. It may seem excessive to some, but it never was to us. Both of us loved it and looked forward to it. Last date night HBB's dad wanted to do the family "movie night" (a tradition of forced on fear of punishment 'family time' started 2 weeks ago) on our date night since HBB was leaving on holiday and wouldn't be around for the 'usual' (I use the term loosely as unlike date night this 'tradition' was two weeks old at the time) "movie night". HBB said he would talk to his dad, but time passed and he found out his brother was forced by their dad to cancel HIS plans because of "movie night" and because of this he decided it would be too much confrontation to postpone "movie night". So I was upset, as I saw it as him giving into a tyrant and ruining our tradition. He came back with a rationalization of "a whole day is too much!" which he had NEVER said or hinted at before. In fact he always said he loved "date night". So that was rationale one. Rationale 2 was when he swore he would stay up with me when I had to go to the ER for a staph infection, but instead he went to 'dinner' and disappeared for over 3 hours because he got 'caught up' in a game of Halo with his friends. So he stayed up with me for 15 minutes in the ER before he fell asleep on the phone. Now, all week he has been on vacation and he promised that he would call me before he got too tired each night and talk to me. That didn't happen, ever. Each night was one rationale after the other. One day was "You didn't txt so I thought you were asleep!" or "I planned on calling you after dinner but we didn't eat dinner until 11pm!". Excuses, and they are getting old.

Its just, how the hell do I even argue with someone who will find some reason every time why they weren't in the wrong? He will even say he is sorry and then follow it with a "but..." and then not get when I tell him why his apology feels insincere. I feel like he never takes responsibility for the crap he pulls, and what little trust in him I had left is just disappearing since no matter what promises he makes he will break them but not see himself as breaking them. It is a catch 22, and its driving me nuts. If he honestly sees all these things as not his fault then he will do them again, and therefore never change. I love him and as my mom has said, as long as I am getting something out of the relationship there is no reason to leave it, but I really wish he would get his crap together and stop this! I just want that damn lightbulb to go on over his head and for him to change, for him to see what he is doing and put effort into not doing it anymore.

Just...any ideas would be appreciated.

[lucybelle]

Its just, how the hell do I even argue with someone who will find some reason every time why they weren't in the wrong?

Anyone else see the irony in this?

[Moon]

Anyone else see the irony in this?

[Malaga]

No disrespect to your mum but that's terrible advice she's given you.

[Tommybat]

I agree with the above posters. But you asked for advice so here is some.
It's not okay that he is doing that persay, but you alao have to remember that he is a human being with a life outside of you. The problem with that statement, however is that he has made no effort to make it up to you, by what you have said.
Has he ever tried to make it up to you? Reschedule or anything? I feel like if someone is truly sorry they would atleast try to make it up to the other person.
Leaving you alone at the hospial like that wasn't cool... You should have brought that up immediately the following day. My advice is to sit him down and talk to him, but rememeber no one likes to be told they are fucking up and would get defensive, so go about it in a non-accusatory manner. Just be like "hey, can we talk. I feel..." blahblahblah and then check back with us. It seems like a communication issue and could be salvaged if you tell him how you feel and if he is willing to work on thosw things.
Now, you have moved on from the past, so brining it up in your post, OP, shouldn't happen. You made the choice to forgive him for what he did back in June, so be present. At all times. A little life advice.
But you really need to ask yourself if this is something you truly want to continue. Do you think this will be a reocurring issue? Or do you think a talk can help.

[sewbama]

Why do you want to argue with him in the first place?? Perhaps he's giving you reasons, not excuses. While I agree their numbers are a bit.. telling, he might just be busy or forgetful or whatever.

If you really want to get past this, you have to talk with him. And you have to be willing to think about what you say and do as perhaps an issue too. Maybe the things he's promised you really made him promise, which he did knowing he couldn't follow through but agreed to anyway? Maybe he needs more time with his family? I don't know, but to me, this sounds like a two-sided problem, not just him being mean. Yea, he probably needs to work on focusing on you some, but there might be other things, too. Like these: "One day was "You didn't txt so I thought you were asleep!" or "I planned on calling you after dinner but we didn't eat dinner until 11pm!"." Are you not in contact with him? Do you just wait and then get mad when he doesn't do what you expected? I'm not asking you to tell me. It's not my problem. I'm asking you to question yourself. There's a chance that it is just him being mean and not thinking of you enough. But you make it sound like you're looking for that and really not helping the situation. Just my observation from what you typed.

So, when you aren't mad or fighting about a particular one of these, sit down and have a real conversation about why he seems to be falling through on promises more often lately. And listen to what he says to be a REASON and not an EXCUSE. Then fight the reason, not him.

[Kiyama]

Jezah, what do you expect to hear from us? Most of us have been following your threads for months, which is why you've got the comments about irony.
Im sorry but neither one in your relationship seems to learn from their mistakes.
Your whole post screams how little understanding you are, insisting on having things your way and your incapability to see things from his perspective for once.
I not sure if I should post any advice because you don't seem to take any but here it comes:
- be more understanding. He's on holiday. Give him a break. Be happy when he contacts you but accept that for now he has fun there and might not be able to call.
- make compromises. Have a shorter date night for once.
- stop trying to force and make him promise something he won't be able to do. Sit back and relax. You put constant pressure on him and no one would be able to live up to your expectations. He's a human being and no robot. He isn't perfect and he's allowed a life outside, without having to justify, defend and argue over every step he takes.
- you need to find a way to work through your resentment because of the cancelled trip. You need to make a decision to either forgive him or to leave. If you keep dwelling on it, it will affect your relationship negatively in the long term.

[tanaquil]

I'll write a better post for this when I'm not on my phone, but I agree with Kiyama, though I understand how you think. My boyfriend was in a horrible state for a whole semester and was worse than yours. It's hard to not only think of yourself first and what YOU want, but one must learn. You seem to be asking far far too much and putting all blame on him...

Anyway, I'll make a better post later but the other posters have spoken well!

[mllebamako]

I think it's a bit extreme to call him unreliable or untrustworthy over this. You are in an LDR! Meaning that you guys have to be flexible with one another's schedules. I cannot tell you how many times, when we were LD, that we had to reschedule or cancel a skype time because something (LIFE) got in the way. And yeah, sometimes I was disappointed, but it was okay because I know that shit happens. Your tradition isn't ruined! It just got postponed.

Also, I don't know all the story from your other threads, but his dad is a tyrant for making his kids join him in a family movie night? A tyrant? Can't you see how dramatic/extreme that sounds from an outside perspective?

[Jezah]

Not really sure why my post is being made fun of and called ironic? The only thing I can see is that people always think they are right and you are wrong when you argue...but my point was he will and has never taken responsibility. So how can I make him understand anything if he refuses to even address it because he thinks he is right?

Anyway. I really dislike that every time I post I seem to get this response of *sigh* here goes Jezah and HBB again, they never learn anything and she only ever complains. Yes I do not come on here in the good times and gloat about it usually, I tend to come here when I need advice or have an issue I need input on. I am on here less and less even now because the past few times I have gotten that response. We do learn from our mistakes, however if what you mean is "learn you are toxic and need to break up" then no we haven't. We learned that arguing is not fun or passionate or whatever...its just shit. However we still have arguments because we are a couple. We do not enjoy them, I hate them, but they happen.

However as far as being more understanding, perhaps that is true. I think I have taken more of a hard line with him because of the cancelled trip and haven't been really 100% happy with him since that. Its like I am still angry and if he slips up I am more likely to get mad than let it go. However I still feel he does need to realize that a promise is a promise, regardless of why he made it he needs to keep it or not make it. Its like I feel that he sees a promise as a fluid bendable thing, like when he promised to come for the summer and didn't he said "I am still coming, just for Christmas!" as if the promise was just transferable to a more convenient date for him. Right now I am just not feeling super flexible, I feel like I need to learn I can trust him again and his playing these little games with keeping promises isn't helping.

I also just lost my job last Monday so that was why he promised to keep in touch while he was away on 'holiday' (again, not really a holiday as all it was is he went with a few of his buddies to watch his friends cat for 4 days at their house no place special) since I was and am feeling incredibly depressed and awful. I just needed him, lost my job, staph infection and feeling overall depressed and he chooses this week to pull all this. If ever a week was needed for him to step up and just be there, it was this one.

[Trepis]

I think part of the issue is he is seeng every excuse as a separate event , and taken individually , no one event is completly out of hand. However, I think it would be good to try and get him to see them as you do, as a series of events. While its not unreasonable for something to come up, when you feel you are taking a back seat to everything in his life, it can be hard. Ask him to see it from your point of view, that hes starting to seem like he ALWAYS has an excuse.

There also seems to be a disconnect in how important things are, making time to support you in the ER should take precedence for him. I'm also a bit confused about the vacation thing, did he go away for the week or just stay home? I work 6 days a week ; if I took a week off for a staycation of course I would spend time with my pals and catch up , but I would also spend much more time with Snowlilly. Our time together is the best part of each day and thinking of a week off, the first thing that occurs to me is how lucky I would be to get more time with her. I am baffled by him commiting to call nightly, and then never doing so, a vacation from work shouldn't be a vacation from you... OF course if it was a destination vacation and he was with a group of pals then maybe he had less control over his schedule , still he shouldn't commit to calling and then not do so.

I guess my advice is to talk to him about how it makes you feel to always take a back seat in his life ; focus on your feelings , do your best to stay away from an accusitory tone. It's easy for him to see each excuse as a stand alone case , if you explain how it appears to be a pattern of behaviour maybe he will be better able to see your point of view.

-Trepis

[Biddlybiddlybombop]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can argue with HBB and point out his mistakes, but you can't make him take responsibility for them.

There's a problem I think a lot people in relationships have, and I think that problem is assuming that you both think and want the same things. For example, you believing that he's just as happy with day-long-dates as you are. Yeah, he probably enjoyed the first few with equal enthusiasm as you did, but it's a huge time
committment to spend a whole day together a week, and equally, as good as it is to spend time together, sometimes spending that long together all in one go can start getting stale after a few times. Not because you don't love each other or don't get on, but because it's really challenging to keep that level of one to one communication going for that many hours in a row, particularly on such a regular basis. (physically being together is different, because it's possible to do more things together that don't necessarily involve having to talk... =p).

I agree with what the majority have been saying. It seems like a communication problem. It's by no means all his fault or all your fault, but there are things you can do to start to get the ball rolling in the way you would like. Firstly, you need to stay calm. By getting angry with him when he changes plans, you're immediately making him want to put his defences up. If you want him to stop making excuses, you need to start allowing him to make mistakes without fear of causing a massive bust up.

Secondly, you can suggest rescheduling. That gives him a second chance at getting things right, on his own terms, in his own time, so that if he misses that, he really does only have himself to blame-and he will know it.

Finally, ask him what he would like. If he says a full day is a bit much, ask him how long he would like your dates to go for. It makes you look accommodating and understanding, and chances are, he'll actually want to spend more time with you than he says, and will make an effort to try and extend that time. Play by his rules for a bit, and either he'll realise that he likes some of the things you choose for you two, and then he'll realise that you're right on some things, or you'll see the merit in what he wants and enjoy your relationship more.

Best of luck

[Romeo s Juliet]

what people are saying on here is not from the intention to hurt or make fun of you. we all have been following your threads on here. you asked for it, most people gave it to you

Please take my advice, and please find yourself. you are being very downright crazy.. sorry for being that blunt. just give him a break. you are depending on HBB to make you happy. please please take a break from all this. you are no one without HBB. and that is unhealthy.
please take a break for yourself and let the guy be. if you dont, you are going to face a really bad breakup soon. good luck!

[Malaga]

Jezah, I don't think the problem is you only come here to complain, it's that every thread you open is about the same thing over and over again, it just shows up on different examples. But you always dismiss all of the advice. For all the progress you made you still haven't tackled your two fundamental problems, which is the lack of understanding for each other and the unreasonable expectations you have placed on him. All the threads you open come from this. People keep repeating the same advice but you're never able to accept you're doing something wrong and it's you who needs to change. And that's why people think it's ironic that you're looking for advice on how to make him realise he's in the wrong and change his approach, when you're unable to accept constructive criticism yourself. You're asking of him something you're not able to provide yourself.

You've also made him the pillar of health and sanity, this is a pitfall for you both. The more pressure you put on him to keep you sane, the more flakey he's going to get. He'll need more recovery time, such as going away with friends for 4 days and not talking to you, because the pressure is too much. He sounds like an immature person anyway, but he's also young and nobody's perfect, and maybe his immaturity wouldn't show up as much if he didn't have so much responsibility placed upon him. Once you ease up the pressure, the drama and the drastic actions (breaking up, attempting suicide), you'll probably find he'll want to spend more time with you, not less.

I'm sorry about your job and your health issues. But next time he's unavailable and you need support, just turn to a friend. Cherish your friendships, the more widespread your support network is, the more balanced you feel. You can also come here on the forum and talk to us. He can't replace your friends and he shouldn't. In fact, I think this is where the lack of understanding for each other comes from. You seem to be more reclusive and he seems to have more of a social life. When I'm bored I get disappointed with my SO if he's busy hanging out with someone else and doesn't have time for me. But then when I'm out with friends I realise how hard it is to be present with them, and to keep in touch with my SO. You're just neither here or there. And it would be a hundred times worse if I were made to feel guilty about it. That would just seriously put me off.

[Jezah]

I really didn't think an hour phone call this "holiday" (it was sorta a destination I guess, his friends they were crashing at 3 hours down the coast from them?) BEFORE he was in bed falling asleep was too much to ask considering. I mean on a normal week yea, but timing sucked and my life disintegrated this week and he could have at least given me one hour like he promised (promised with NO prompting from me).

Maybe the date night thing was a bit much, but I have been feeling like he doesn't love me as much anymore and when he took something we used to both adore and look forward too and suddenly wanted time away I panicked. It was out of the norm and freaked me out frankly. Plus, I do NOT like his fathers controlling him and how HBB allows it. His father is forcing family time on them, and will punish them if they do not want to sit and watch a movie with him. I think it is dysfunctional and that was part of my reaction. All 3 boys are in their 20's....that is just not ok.