He rationalizes EVERYTHING

[Dziubka]

If I recall correctly, he cancelled because his father determined an entire summer was too long and made an issue about it meaning he wouldn't be prepared to apply for the army next year (he failed his test and has to wait a year to take it again, I think). While I'm no advocate for sweeping someone's issues and need for improvements under the rug, I also don't think Jezah's irrationally hurt by a man in his mid-20s cancelling his trip because daddy said it'd screw up his army plans. In my opinion, Jezah's grip on the reigns has gotten tighter in response to HBB's lazy, stubborn approach to their relationship in which he's unreliable and constantly skips out on her when something remotely overwhelming happens. He listens to his father, has given his father free reign of his life, and has made no move to get out of the situation in several months despite his father's overbearing rules. He lacks a work ethic and sense of responsibility and does nothing to work on the relationship. Their fundamental problems are always the same and it takes two. Jezah is not the one who deserves a reaming here, in my opinion, as she's certainly not the only one in the wrong. Her behaviour is a response to HBB's complete lack thereof, not the other way around (imo).

While it's not ok (as I've stated above) to want your partner to be less social or not need as many friends, I completely agree with this.
It's just that it's nothing new. It has been going on for months. Jezah's boyfriend is not going to change.
She has two choices:
Accepting that that's the way he is and learning to deal with it.
or
Leaving the relationship.

That's it. There's no other solution. Nothing we can do or help with.

[Malaga]

I agree with you Eclaire. HBB's personality and approach are definitely so flawed it makes it basically impossible to have a solid fulfilling relationship, no matter what she does. I wouldn't want to spend a day in a relationship with such a guy, I learned that lesson the hard way.

He should be able to deliver many of the things she expects of him because many of those things are reasonable, fundamental expectations when you're in a relationship, but he just isn't capable of doing so, end of story. That's what it all comes down to.

However, while Jezah isn't responsible for her SO's character flaws and immature behaviour - they were probably present long before they even got together - she is definitely equally responsible for the mess they're in. She's putting all of her eggs in his basket and sees nothing wrong with it, would that not be a cracking burden for anyone, let alone a person with a weak personality and cowardish way of dealing with issues like him?

Jezah's attitude is intensified by his flaky behaviour, but the problem is her approach from the start just wasn't healthy. And just as her behaviour is partly a reaction to his, his behaviour is partly a reaction to hers. This is not meant to excuse him in any way, but to get a more realistic picture of who needs to address what when they work on themselves. I understand she has mental health problems and difficult life circumstances, but she's also been equally stubborn and dismissive about suggestions for improvement. Just like her SO.

I don't agree with Jezah bashing (and I hope my post isn't seen as such). Some of the posts I think were too harsh on her. But I do think both of them bear equal responsibility for the mess they're in. Yet as Jezah is the one who starts these threads, she's the one we can talk to and get her to realise where things went wrong, including her part in it. Obviously we can't reach him. This relationship is doomed anyway, but hopefully at least Jezah can learn from it for her next relationship.

I don't mean to be condescending either, I spent over 7 years in a very similar situation. So if she quits after a year and a half, she's still way ahead of me.

[Romeo s Juliet]

Wow, can you stop being so blunt and frankly rude? I have a therapist, and I see her weekly. Just because I do not need or choose to have friends does not make me in need of help, and doesn't mean HBB is my world. My world is my family, my cats and until I lost it...my job. He is a big part of my world, but anyone with a boyfriend for a over a year should see their boyfriend as that!

I swear this place is giving me a complex. My own therapist sees my relationship with HBB and she never once says I am being overbearing or asking too much. Maybe the whole date night thing seems it since nobody here seems to do that with their SO, but you have to remember I was not the only one who started or wanted date night. HBB was the one who first suggested it. Just because you cannot imagine spending 24 hours with your SO doesn't mean that just because me and HBB do makes me some needy harpy bitch. We have been doing this for over a year, no issues. In fact this time was not so much losing 2 hours as it was why. I have an issue with his father and his tyrannical ways. I have an issue also that HBB didn't even try and talk to his dad to reschedule the movie night even though he said he would. Its more keeping his word that is the problem.

I am severely depressed right now, like barely can get out of bed depressed due to losing my job, being taken off anti-depressants in preparation for ECT and a staph infection that is causing me pain. So yea, I can see how maybe I am needing HBB a bit more and perhaps it is why I was not as ok with his absence while he was off with his friends. However, I really didn't think asking for one hour a day while away, being with me in ER and keeping his word suddenly made me the bad guy. Am I really so psychotic? This doesn't seem too above and beyond. I didn't even bug him with txts while he was away, just wanted a one hour call to help brighten my otherwise quite depressing day. Even he in hindsight agrees it wasn't much to ask. I just don't get why everyone here thinks it was?

I love him, and I do not mean to seem like I am overly critical of him. I do think however that I am very wary still with him, as since talking it out we both agree he never did anything to fix or make up the hurt about cancelling his trip and devastating me. So I feel like that hurt has yet to be healed, so when he does something to hurt or disappoint me again it is compounded. So I have held onto that, and not really sure how to let it go without some help from him.

WOW, you asked for it girl! this place is giving you a complex? let me give you a easy solution! dont post if you cant handle the criticism!. you arent the only one in the world who has been depressed. people face it, you asked for advice. and i gave it IN MY OPINION. there is nothing to whine about it. take it or leave it. you cant even face criticism, and you continue on going to critizie my relationship with my SO. i can only LOL at your comment about me unable to spend 24/7 with my SO. you are overly dependent and whiny, and seriously doesnt want to fix things, but want to mess things. i could totally see why you SO is behaving the way he is, because you are being one whiny preschool kid. advice given to people like you becomes a waste! overdramatic and being in total denial of it!

[Haley53]

@Malaga and Dzu - I completely agree with you both and have tried to emphasise her shared responsiblity (and HBB's likelihood to not change, so she either accepts it or doesn't). I simply don't agree with the way people are treating/responding to her this time around; they're absolving HBB of responsibility and blaming her, and she's not entirely in the wrong. Also, while the behaviour patterns were present in the past, they have been exacerbated by HBB's recent stunts. This I'm almost sure of. I was simply defending Jezah against everyone who's saying HBB isn't being a flake of a boyfriend and she's asking too much for him to be there when she's in the hospital, for example. All of these people would complain if their SOs skipped out on them at such a time, or cancelled a trip because mommy/daddy said so. :/

[lucybelle]

@Malaga and Dzu - I completely agree with you both and have tried to emphasise her shared responsiblity (and HBB's likelihood to not change, so she either accepts it or doesn't). I simply don't agree with the way people are treating/responding to her this time around; they're absolving HBB of responsibility and blaming her, and she's not entirely in the wrong. Also, while the behaviour patterns were present in the past, they have been exacerbated by HBB's recent stunts. This I'm almost sure of. I was simply defending Jezah against everyone who's saying HBB isn't being a flake of a boyfriend and she's asking too much for him to be there when she's in the hospital. :/

Jezah has a posting cycle. She comes on with the same problem. She feels attacked, because people are attacking her. She leaves in a huffy, as anyone would. She is absent for weeks on end, only to come back and post about the same problem again. I'm just sort of frustrated and really try my hardest to just stay away from these posts. Because, as we have all said, nothing. ever. changes.

[Moon]

WOW, you asked for it girl! this place is giving you a complex? let me give you a easy solution! dont post if you cant handle the criticism!. you arent the only one in the world who has been depressed. people face it, you asked for advice. and i gave it IN MY OPINION. there is nothing to whine about it. take it or leave it. you cant even face criticism, and you continue on going to critizie my relationship with my SO. i can only LOL at your comment about me unable to spend 24/7 with my SO. you are overly dependent and whiny, and seriously doesnt want to fix things, but want to mess things. i could totally see why you SO is behaving the way he is, because you are being one whiny preschool kid. advice given to people like you becomes a waste! overdramatic and being in total denial of it!

Yo, knock it off, if you want to name call there are plenty of other forums for that. You can debate intelligently and disagree with people all you want, but keep it civil and grown up.

[Haley53]

Jezah has a posting cycle. She comes on with the same problem. She feels attacked, because people are attacking her. She leaves in a huffy, as anyone would. She is absent for weeks on end, only to come back and post about the same problem again. I'm just sort of frustrated and really try my hardest to just stay away from these posts. Because, as we have all said, nothing. ever. changes.

Yes, but your posts are typically pretty honest/fair. I simply think there are some people getting out of hand. If you can't keep from making it personal, don't post, yanno? People are entitled to feel frustrated, but downright attacking, name calling, pointing fingers, and claiming things like no wonder he wants space etc = unnecessary. I don't see your posts as being unnecessary, necessarily.

ETA: and honestly, I mostly just want to make a point that HBB's not too hot at the boyfriend thing currently, and hasn't been for several months.

[Moon]

Jezah has a posting cycle. She comes on with the same problem. She feels attacked, because people are attacking her. She leaves in a huffy, as anyone would. She is absent for weeks on end, only to come back and post about the same problem again. I'm just sort of frustrated and really try my hardest to just stay away from these posts. Because, as we have all said, nothing. ever. changes.

Totally this. I feel exactly the same way, how many times and ways can you repeat the same thing, over and over and over? I'm probably being a bit bitchy, but it's getting almost comical.

[Moon]

Yes, but your posts are typically pretty honest/fair. I simply think there are some people getting out of hand. If you can't keep from making it personal, don't post, yanno? People are entitled to feel frustrated, but downright attacking, name calling, pointing fingers, and claiming things like no wonder he wants space etc = unnecessary. I don't see your posts as being unnecessary, necessarily.

Hmmm..although I do agree that people were taking it too far and being overly harsh to someone with obvious issues (That's not a jab, just an observation). What can i say, you are both nicer and kinder than I am, Eclaire

[lucybelle]

Totally this. I feel exactly the same way, how many times and ways can you repeat the same thing, over and over and over? I'm probably being a bit bitchy, but it's getting almost comical.

No, I definitely read these posts for the drama!! It takes all of my self control to not reply. This time, I was weak

I somehow feel that if we stop giving her attention, she'll be forced to solve her problems on her own.

[Yaaamiii]

I don't have much to say since everything and anything has already been said, whether I agreed with it or not, but I did want to add this: do not expect him to change. Nothing you do will make him, in fact, you may just push him away. If he changes, it'll be because he himself felt the need to work on himself. Accept him as he is or move on.

[Jezah]

Thank you Eclaire.

I really do apologize if it seems like I am acting like I am perfect with no issues and HBB is just horrible. That is not at all what I mean, or how I wanted to come off. I know I have issues, most of my therapists take one look at my background and history and are in disbelief I am able to function at ALL. I mean, my depression is so bad I need electro shock therapy to help it....so no, I do not live under the illusion that I am without my own problems. However, that is mainly why I come on here with any problem I have with HBB. I sometimes have a hard time communicating my feelings to him in a way he understands, so that was the purpose of this thread...to maybe get some new way I could approach the issue with him that maybe he could understand better.

I am also sorry if it seems like I do not listen, I really am trying to but it is quite hard to listen to someone who is attacking you. However when Eclair, Moon or Malaga (I may be leaving a few others out) write in a non aggressive understanding way I DO listen and DO understand. HBB does need to change, and I know I cannot make him.

I think it is almost funny how people think I feel I have no issues, yet the main reason why I have stayed with HBB is because I know I do. I know I have issues, and for the most part HBB is incredible with me on them. He is very understanding and very tolerant of my tendency to get hyper reactive and irritable. I think I almost blame myself a LOT for all the thing HBB does. I get so mad because I feel helpless, I feel like I love this man so much and yet he does these things and is so stubborn that I feel like I am screaming at a wall. So I internalize the issues until it gets too much and finally I post on here, hoping for some solution or someone to tell me it isn't all me.

It feels like half of you are telling me it is me, my issues and if I only "got over" the things HBB does all would be fine....and the other half are telling me HBB is not going to change and I need to leave. I honestly do not know who to believe at this point. A part of me wants it to be me, because I can change myself, god knows I am trying incredibly hard to do so. If it is him, then I have to face that I need to let go of this relationship and all the happiness it still brings me because in the end it is going nowhere.

So, overall I am sorry if you are all feeling essentially like how I feel towards HBB right now...like you are trying to reason with someone who won't listen or change. I do not mean to come off like that, as that is not how I feel or how I am taking this. I just think I am sitting here feeling like if ONLY I could phrase my issue to HBB differently, explain how I am feeling better that HBB will "get it" and things will get better. He always says he does, says he will change and then doesn't. He seems so sincere when he does too, like he is sorry and like he does want to change this. So I guess it makes it harder than if he just refused to change, refused to try...but he doesn't, he says he will and so I believe him every time.

I just really don't know what to do

[Moon]

Jezah, what I think I'm getting out of this is two main things; he needs to grow up (which isn't something you can make him do, unfortunately), and you need to be more flexible. I can only focus on you here, so what I mean by that is you have to let the little things go, and choose your battles more wisely. Sometimes there is just going to be things in life that disappoint us, like your skype date, but that's inevitable. How you manage those disappointments is what counts, and it might be good to talk to your therapist about more positive ways to do that, and what you should just let go. Your skype date was disappointing, but with some understanding and compromise from both of you, you could have just rescheduled and not had so much stress. His father might be overbearing, and you might not like it, but it is what it is, he lives under his father's roof, so he kinda has to deal with his father's wishes, and your fighting with him about it is only making the situation worse for you all.

When you choose your battles more wisely, you will be taken much more seriously and more thoroughly listened to. When you let everything upset you, and react to it, you put yourself into a sorta "boy who cried wolf" scenario, and no one is paying attention or really caring what you're saying. Trust me on that, seriously.

Now, I have no idea if you should stay with HBB or leave, that's a decision you have to make alone, but if you stay and neither of you can make the needed changes, it's not going to last. It involves both of you, not just you and not just him, both individually and together. That's it really, it's that simple. I'm sorry to say that sometimes all the love in the world can't save an unhealthy relationship, love is only part of the equation. I also think you aren't the best candidate for an LDR, and if you two can't find a way to close the distance in the near future, you should really reconsider the whole thing, it's not worth what it's doing to you emotionally. Look, you know you have issues, that's a good start, now you need to figure out if those issues can be managed enough for this long distance stuff, it ain't easy.

One more thing, if I may. It might benefit you to take a more active role in other people's posts, not only will you maybe help someone, but you'll learn some things, too. It really does seem like you just come here, post the same issues repeatedly, but never give anything back, you know? It would be nice to see another side of you. You may have issues, but you write nicely, and use proper grammar, punctuation and spelling, and I'll take that over some of the practically illiterate garbage I see here on occasion, drives me nuts

I hope that helps you in some way.

[Zapookie]

Jezah, what I think I'm getting out of this is two main things; he needs to grow up (which isn't something you can make him do, unfortunately), and you need to be more flexible. I can only focus on you here, so what I mean by that is you have to let the little things go, and choose your battles more wisely. Sometimes there is just going to be things in life that disappoint us, like your skype date, but that's inevitable. How you manage those disappointments is what counts, and it might be good to talk to your therapist about more positive ways to do that, and what you should just let go. Your skype date was disappointing, but with some understanding and compromise from both of you, you could have just rescheduled and not had so much stress. His father might be overbearing, and you might not like it, but it is what it is, he lives under his father's roof, so he kinda has to deal with his father's wishes, and your fighting with him about it is only making the situation worse for you all.

When you choose your battles more wisely, you will be taken much more seriously and more thoroughly listened to. When you let everything upset you, and react to it, you put yourself into a sorta "boy who cried wolf" scenario, and no one is paying attention or really caring what you're saying. Trust me on that, seriously.

Now, I have no idea if you should stay with HBB or leave, that's a decision you have to make alone, but if you stay and neither of you can make the needed changes, it's not going to last. It involves both of you, not just you and not just him, both individually and together. That's it really, it's that simple. I'm sorry to say that sometimes all the love in the world can't save an unhealthy relationship, love is only part of the equation. I also think you aren't the best candidate for an LDR, and if you two can't find a way to close the distance in the near future, you should really reconsider the whole thing, it's not worth what it's doing to you emotionally. Look, you know you have issues, that's a good start, now you need to figure out if those issues can be managed enough for this long distance stuff, it ain't easy.

One more thing, if I may. It might benefit you to take a more active role in other people's posts, not only will you maybe help someone, but you'll learn some things, too. It really does seem like you just come here, post the same issues repeatedly, but never give anything back, you know? It would be nice to see another side of you. You may have issues, but you write nicely, and use proper grammar, punctuation and spelling, and I'll take that over some of the practically illiterate garbage I see here on occasion, drives me nuts

I hope that helps you in some way.

This entire post.

You're not entirely to blame, Jezah. It takes two to make a relationship.

[Dziubka]

It feels like half of you are telling me it is me, my issues and if I only "got over" the things HBB does all would be fine....and the other half are telling me HBB is not going to change and I need to leave. I honestly do not know who to believe at this point. A part of me wants it to be me, because I can change myself, god knows I am trying incredibly hard to do so. If it is him, then I have to face that I need to let go of this relationship and all the happiness it still brings me because in the end it is going nowhere.

It's not a "either or"-issue. It's both. It's him being irresponsible and immature and you -not surprisingly- having problems with that.

Both halves are right. The people who tell you to get over your issues and the people telling you that he won't change and you need to leave. You just need to decide what way you want to go.
I guess I'm repeating myself here, but you can't make him change. No matter how you bring up the issues to him. No matter what he tells you. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions for sure tell you whole novels about who he is. He is refusing to change, even if he's not saying it. I can say I'm a millionaire all I want, it doesn't change the numbers in my bank account.

The only person you can change is yourself. The only thing that you can do to make this relationship work is change or rather lower your expectations or in other words: Get over all the things he does (that rightfully so upset you).
He's a flake. I don't see that changing. So if you want to be happy with a flake of a boyfriend, then you need to learn to be happy with a flake of a boyfriend.
No more relying on date nights, no expecting him to stand up against his dad, no visits if something else comes up,...
That doesn't really sound like a desireable relationship? It's the only relationship you'll ever have with him.

We can't change our partners. We can either accept them and change our approach (as in "oh, hey, when I think about it some more, leaving the toilet seat up isn't really that much of an issue after all. I guess I can live with that.") or realise that it's an issue we just can't accept and see that they don't make us happy ("I'm not going to compromise on a f*cking toilet seat. If he's too much of a pig to put it down, then I don't want to live with him!").

There's no alternative to that. No, you can't make him understand. There's no way you can phrase your problem, so that it will make him change his ways.