So, Won't Be Going On That Working Holiday...

[nicole]

I don't have much to add, but before I got married, we'd only lived together for at most a month at a time (whilst we were LD, CD I pretty much lived with him 2 months before I left, but we were all new and shiny back then ). I'd say with how long you've been together, you can get a very good idea of when it's like to live together with just those extended visits. I had no nasty surprises.

Visas between the UK and US are hard, they only way I knew we would close the distance without a marriage/fiance visa was if I went back to do my PhD on a student visa, which was the original plan. But you should have seen me in my final year of my bachelors- I am surprised I got through it, I was a mess! I take it your SO isn't interested in entering the US education system?

[lucybelle]

If just living together was an option, she wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. You can't just ignore all the things that make immigration difficult or even impossible. Eclaire has already explained to you why your advice won't work so it was unnecessary and unhelpful to repeat yourself.

There are plenty of ways to live together first, they would just make things take longer. I know very well how difficult immigration is so don't act like I'm oblivious to the situation. They could both finish school then either one could go to the other's country for 6 months on a tourist visa to "live" and see how things work out. My point is that if Eclaire has any reservations about getting married before living together that she should not do it. You can't go into a marriage if you're not 100% ready.

[blankita719]

Eclaire - you're a smart girl, and I would completely trust your instincts on this one. It's going to be difficult, no matter which way you go, but if something is telling you to hold off, don't ignore it.

Also, Moon is a genius and should post on every thread because I love seeing what she has to say on everything

I don't have much to add, but I'm glad you are both feeling a deeper sense of commitment to one another and understanding that sometimes things don't go according to plan, but usually it's for good reason.

[Haley53]

Wow, thank you everyone!

To clear up something, I don't believe tourist visas are attainable between Europe and the U.S. - at least not between Ireland and the U.S. - as they/we travel under the Visa Waiver Program and are therefore authorised up to x-amount of months in the respective countries. I believe I'm allowed up to 6 months into the UK but only 3 months into Ireland (and it's 3 months in the U.S.), so our only visa options are the working holiday, student, or immigrant visas.

@nicole: The good news is with my SO being out on his own and the legal guardian of his brother, we do have to work together to maintain the household on a basic level when I'm over. We had to share responsibilities for upkeep, and there were a couple financial stressors we ran into where we had to help one another out, so I can agree that to an extent, we do have an idea of what living with one another would be like. What I imagine the working holiday would have afforded us is the opportunity to manage finances together, and to operate in a situation where one or both of us would be working and balancing our relationship with work, in that regard. Nice to know you had no nasty surprises though!

As far as attending school in the U.S., of course the offer is always open, but his schooling in Ireland is free or around 2,000 a year (can't remember the details), I believe. If he wanted to pursue more schooling, though the option could be discussed, it would make more sense to do that than attend school here as an international student, with prices being through the roof even for in-state students, currently.

@blankita: I agree about Moon. But thank you for your response. <3

[triste]

Eclaire...(or I almost want to say Moon!) I think you are older than the average 21 year old. Your post says that much.

I think your decision was a very hard one, and very well thought out. I read your post, but what interested me most, what more what you didn't say, I think the "more to it" is what really made your final decision and is where your gut feeling comes from.

It sounds like you are building a beautiful relationship, one well thought out, and where neither is giving anything up...you are both building each other up, which is a big part of a good relationship. Yes, we all make sacrifices, and yes, in the world of LDR, ours tend to be greater than most would expect, but you are setting a solid foundation for yourselves as individuals first, I think it is wonderful.

As far as marriage without living together? Well, before you get upset, hear me out. My ex-husband and I (yes ex), were forced to marry within 90 days of entering the US (stipulations of the now extinct K-1 finance visa). Well, we got married on day 89, no joke. Eclaire, it was the right thing to do. Yes, I know he is my ex, and well, funny enough, I was 21 when I married him. We didn't have a lot of time living together prior to that, though we had for a few months...I do not regret my marriage in the least, got a wonderful 10 yr. old now who would agree whole-heartedly as well

Good luck and study hard!!

[Haley53]

Thank you very much for that response.

I think the "more to it" is hard to put into words, and more intuitive than anything. It's easy to explain why logistically, a working holiday would be hard to manage, but it's much harder to explain the intuition behind it, the gut feeling that's telling me "not yet" more than it's telling me "no." If I didn't know that there was controversy around the idea of intuition, especially so far in advance, I would probably feel much more comfortable describing the thought process behind it. All I can say is that for me, this is the right decision, and to put it as simply as I possibly can, it boils down to where I feel both my SO and I need to be right now and to the fact that I feel spending a year there would be forced, and as such, could possibly end something wonderful.

Thank you very, very much for your post. A lot of it resonated with me, and it all meant a lot. <3

[Lilly9886]

When you say 1 year is too long (for whatever reasons), why not go for 6 months?
You could try to go there on a holiday working visa, but only stay for half of your gap year and then get your applications done when you get home (which would be around December or so I'd guess).

I am with lucybelle, if you want to live together, try really hard to find a way and take all the possible chances!

Good luck!

[Haley53]

When you say 1 year is too long (for whatever reasons), why not go for 6 months?
You could try to go there on a holiday working visa, but only stay for half of your gap year and then get your applications done when you get home (which would be around December or so I'd guess).

I am with lucybelle, if you want to live together, try really hard to find a way and take all the possible chances!

Good luck!

Thank you!

I suppose I could consider it, and that had been the original plan due to interviews in the spring (and then I would fly back after interviews), but there's still that grad school timeline. :/ Depending on when the deadlines are for the applications, I still have to send away for materials such as transcripts, letters of rec (which have to be sent directly from the school/professors/employers/etc., as they are not allowed to give them to you) and so on, be home for the GRE and the GRE subject test for one of the programs I am applying to, write a 4-5 page statement of purpose for each of the programs (and a research paper for one of them), and actually fill out my applications, plus anything else that comes up. This all happens in the Fall and the recommended timeline is to have it all done by December. Different programs I'm applying to have different deadlines, too. The remaining 6 months, I have to be around in case of interviews. It's why we both discussed the possiblity of my coming for a couple months in the first half of the gap year and a couple months in the second. There are a couple other things that make 6 months difficult, too, and then there's worrying about who would hire me for only a 6 month span?

But regardless, I think the main thing I'm trying to say with this thread is that I'm not forcing this working holiday, that the timing is not right, and so that's why the idea of living together vs. not living together has been on my mind. The other thing is I was also only mainly asking if relationships can work, not if my relationship can work. Neither my SO nor I are ready to close the distance via marriage. He's turning 20 and I'm 21! I suppose we can't be expected to be ready. If and when we finally discuss what our plan is in 3 years, and it will have to wait at least the long, if I felt strongly about wanting to live together, then I would figure it out. Right now, my conflict is more "but this is how it SHOULD happen, and we might have to take a detour" versus "I need to live with him before I marry him! What am I going to do?" and I simply wanted to know if people can still work out without having lived together for more than 3 months.

[Snowlilly]

Honestly I think people can work out in marriage even though they have not lived together for an extended time. It really depends on the maturity level of each person and how well you know each other, and how well each compromises. I think relationships where compromise is the goal vs the "I am right" power struggle are destined to work much better. You have spent time living with your SO and you are very very mature for your age. I think things would work well from your end, but of course we have no clue how your SO is. Only you know how he is and whether or not it would work just marrying him and living with him. The nice thing about LDRs I think is how well we get to know the other person vs meeting someone CD. I never knew my husband as well before I married than I know Trepis now. I am sure if I had, I would have made different choices and we still managed to stay married for 23 years. And that is the other part in relationships too, how committed one is to make it work.

Like I said, only you know your SO and so you have to make that judgement call about marrying someone you have not lived with. I am actually a proponent of living with someone first too before you marry them so I know how you feel. I do applaud your decision to stay here and work on finishing your education, and you are young! You have time, no need to rush. If he loves you, he will wait.

[Haley53]

He was never the one who believed he would need to live with me to realise that we would work, so he's definitely on the same page. The original plan had come from me, when I had thought we would be able to make our working holiday work.

He is quite mature for his age, despite being younger than I am, seeing as his mother was diagnosed with cancer when he was young, and he's matured a lot in the past year, as well, having moved out into an apartment and as the legal guardian of his brother. Given what we've been through in our relationship together, I do feel that we have an even stronger sense of commitment and communication than we did in the beginning, and also an ability to see things realistically and handle them as they come. I also feel we have a strong enough sense of communication that we'd be able to work our way through issues that arose. We have already had to handle finances, to an extent, together, but moving in together would be the next step of handling finances in a shared place and with shared bills. However, given how well we communicate, a part of me feels that we would learn how to live together regardless of when we did so, and we'd be committed to making it through any rough patches that we hit. I genuinely feel that having made it through his mother's death, we can make it through anything save for if life decides to steer us in two different directions.

Thank you very much for your response. <3

[Malaga]

It's a good sign you have such confidence in each other. I'm glad you have that freedom to take the more difficult route if you feel it's the right one for you, without sacrificing the connection you have with your SO.

So you've never felt comfortable with the idea of getting married without having lived together before. But you probably decided that before you found yourself in the circumstances you are now, with the relationship evolved in the way it has. Life isn't a series of textbook cases we can decide on in advance, and what we feel comfortable with changes as the circumstances change as well. You're a smart, reasonable person and your gut feeling is smart and reasonable as well, and most importantly, you're in tune with it. If your gut feeling tells you this is the right thing to do, and if your relationship fills you with confidence and faith in future like it does, you don't have to worry about what you didn't use to feel comfortable with. Do what feels right for you and trust that everything will fall into place like it does when things are done the right way.

Good luck xx

[Haley53]

Thank you so much, Malaga. <3 That meant a lot to read. It really, really did.

I'm going to close this thread now, I think! Thank you again everyone!