He read my texts

[Tanja]

I really hope you can get the spark back. It's great that he agreed to go counselling, maybe you'll get some good advice and tips on how to go from there.

You're certainly trying your best and giving it your all which is admirable. I believe if there's a will, there's a way. If you both commit to trying and make an effort you have every chance to succeed.

Let us know how things go. Oh and ignore those rude jerks <3

[kteire]

It's good you could have an honest talk with him and get everything out in the open. I really hope that going to counselling will help you figure things out!

[Dziubka]

That sounds really good considering the circumstances. It seems like the both of you want to make this work, so I'm sure if there's anything left to safe, you'll safe it.
If it doesn't work out after all, at least you know that you've tried everything you could to make it work.

[Kristin91]

It's great that he's agreed to go to counseling with you! I wish you both the best of luck

[ThePiedPiper]

It's great that he's agreed to go to counseling with you! I wish you both the best of luck

Me too, whatever the outcome. You're in my thoughts.

[Thoth]

You completely missed the point of my post. I never said humans aren't curious, and curiosity has a great deal to do with trust in this case. As she said, he could have asked her who she was texting and she could have told him, and that could have taken care of his wondering who she was texting. But he basically decided he didn't trust her to be honest, and waited until she left the room to find out. Assuming your SO is lying is NOT A GOOD THING. I find it crazy that you keep assuming she's hiding something, and it's not helping the situation. Also trying to quote evolutionary genetics (and trying to make it sound more complicated than it is...) is not supporting your cause, I studied evolutionary genetics at university and can still know that humans are capable of controlling things like curiosity, when you trust a person.

We believe you are the one who has missed the point. We were extrapolating from what you had inferred concerning trust, and attempted to reason based upon it logically. It doesn't matter that an institution has served you in the evolutionary genetics field. As humans, we have the power to control them, but controlling instincts are beyond our limits. We subjoined philosophical empirical knowledge as well, though. Our main point is stop blaming everything on her SO, it's not entirely his fault. Golos trusts his friend Pjork, although Golos would read all Pjork's messages if he could, even though they're not in a relationship. In this case, the crime was purely curiosity, but not trust.

You missed my point Thoth. Being an open book is a choice, not a requirement. Couples can NOT be an open book and still be successful as well. Your analogy is also correct, but you failed to recognise that Rugger's SO did NOT ask to read her text messages on her phone. That is the issue in this situation.

Also if her SO were truly trusting of Rugger, he would have pushed his curiosity aside and NOT read her messages, even though his curiosity was driving him to look at it.

Some people's curiosity can get far beyond out of hand and cannot control it. [But] one cannot go on forever without questioning what s/he is curios of. Other than that, I agree.

Rugger I'm so sorry. If you don't want to give up yet, you can give him some more time. I can't imagine how hard this must be for the two of you


Thoth:
Why are you so convinced that it was right of him to yell in the first place? What if she did nothing wrong and him yelling was wrong? Why don't you even consider that option?
*edit: I also think that (even though I'm guilty of that as well) yelling is basically always wrong. The logic that he yelled so *you* must have done something wrong is seriously f*cked up. Like there's so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin.

Spoiler:

Also:
I can't get this out of my mind. Sorry.

We understand what you're trying to say, and we agree, yelling is never good. We tend to seem so convinced because we both find it heavily suspicious that he would start yelling at her post-scrutiny. We would believe this indicates that she has done something wrong, right?

You said "we" I assumed that means Maat is there with you. Please say hi.

Who's Maat?

I've seen people talk in third person but the goonie kid brings it to a whole new level.

I'm really sorry Rugger. Maybe as hard as it is, it is time to cut the cord. I feel that no matter how much therapy you two have that this incident as well as your lack of feelings might not be able to ever get you back to the couple you were.

Uhhh O.K. our gratitude. We believe the key is time.

Yes, I clearly deserve to be yelled at because I'm a dirty cheating whore, who texts (Oh my god wait for it) MEN while I have an SO. May God strike me down for even thinking (platonically) of other guys while I am dating someone else. I deserve to be tarred and feathered and burned at the stake for being a whore. God forbid I talk about Words with friends, or my job, or my relationship, or whiskey or really anything else with people who aren't my SO. Please Victim-blaming is so adolescent. This is why a lot of rapists go free. Clearly I must have done something wrong to get him to do that to me. Clearly.

He was mad because He's insecure and jealous. He knows I have male friends, whom I was talking to. He assumed since I'm close with one of them that I was cheating on him. His hypothesis was WRONG. Because I wouldn't do that. People get jealous. It's part of the human condition, as you postulate curiosity is. Jealousy can be irrational or rational. If I had been cheating on him, which I have not, his jealous at my talking to other men, would be rational. Since I was not cheating, It was irrational. People ignore human nature every since goddamn day.

No I was not hiding anything, He was drunk and irrationally jealous that I was talking to people while with him, something that he was also doing. I no longer get jealous because I trust him and because Jealousy serves no productive purpose, something which I've often told him. It took a lot of work on my part, because i had a big jealous streak. I've been cheated on in the past, and I know how much it hurts.

Trust matters to me more than anything. My family was almost torn apart my cheating and I see how having no trust effects my parents' marriage. If they weren't already married almost 30 years, They would be split. If you can't trust the person you love, who can you trust? I have boundary lines because of my previous relationship. I had an volatile and abusive ex who was convinced I was cheating on him and used to hack my Facebook and my phone consistently. He had no trust in me at all, even though I'd done nothing wrong. He was also super controlling and I wasn't allowed to have male friends, or wear skirts or be around men at all. Maybe I'm biased, but him checking my phone like that made me panic. I've been there. It's not a pretty road to go down and I will never be back again. I'm sure it will be addressed at therapy, although it will make my SO uncomfortable, which is why he refuses to talk about it and why he doesn't know.

Maybe I'm freaking out over this, but no trust is a deal breaker for me. I refuse to go back to be controlled and abused.

Okay, now things are starting to make more sense. We were not victim-blaming, we were using the information given. We've read the newer posts now and see that it's getting better, so we're not going to even attempt to raise more and more dispute now.

I'm really sorry Rugger. I hope he'll contact you soon, no matter what the outcome of this situation might be. Not knowing is the worst feeling. Keep us updated <3

The whole we-thing is totally creepy. Not to mention the relationship.

This "we" thing is exclusively for LFAD.

Rugger, ignore this kid, really. His posts are not worth getting upset about, his perspectives are that of a child's, without any real life experience whatsoever, no matter how many big words he chooses to use. Anyone who would say the absolute junk he said to you obviously has no insight into the situation. We all know you did nothing wrong, and did not deserve to be treated like you were.

We disagree with Moon, you have to look at another perspective rather than the perspective you want to hear from. We don't know what it is called, although Blanket's brudder calls it "compulsive reading". Where an individual reads only what they want to read. You must concern each angle, not only one. As expected though, Moon resorts to an ad hominem in order to attempt a refutation of our assertions. We've noted sentimental disputes in similar ways everywhere, so we do not mind, we just ignore them. We are not using experience, we are using logic and reasoning. You are using emotions, and blaming everything on the guy. No insight? That is the reason why we attempted to gain a broader perceptive by interrogating her. Allow me to add your quotation: "We all know you did nothing wrong, ...". If that was true then I believe the guy wouldn't have yelled at her.

[Thoth]

Seriously, check your attitude. Don't come on a new forum where a lot of us have been for years, and try to tell us what we're doing right and wrong in our relationships.

We never claimed anything about your relationships and wrong-doings. We're giving our reasonable and logical point of view.

Creepy "we" couple - give your relationship three or four years and then ask yourselves where your individuality is. I bet it will have deserted you both completely and you'll be in a sad place with no true friends and no personality to call your own. That's not romantic. That's just sad.

Ad hominem, we'll ignore this worthless post.

Good talk general.

Thank you, Marshal. Allow us to cite a simile; we are like the horse in this instance.

What the hell why does everyone care so much about textx damn imbeciles.

Mi soglasen. Yest' razniye lyudi hotya, Marshal.

I haven't replied in this thread but i've been following it. This isn't about text its about respecting your SOs right to privacy and its a lot about trust. This would be as bad as invading your email, facebook, chat logs, forum posts or even easedropping on a phone call. Few years ago you could relate it to, checking someones pager or going through someones mail. The underlying message is about respect and trust for your partner not about what medium the person broke into and read or listened to.

Rugger I'm so so sorry about what happened. I truly hope it works out somehow. If not, you are a strong woman more then capable of figuring out what you want and need personally. Good luck to you.

Your post is irrelevant in this case, though. It would not matter so long as you didn't have anything you didn't want your SO to read.

He came home last night. Apparently he returned home Wednesday night and went to work. I asked him if I could come over and feed my rabbit. He responded with yes.

We talked for about an hour. Calmly. I was the one crying. I re-iterated what I said on Sunday, but more calmly. I need trust in a relationship and I need someone who understands my limitations with sex. There aren't many, but when I say no, I mean no. It doesn't mean pout or badger me until I give in out of frustration. Both of those things send up flags in my head, which I'm sure I'll have to talk about with the therapist. He apologized again for both of those things and admitted he was wrong not to trust me. He admitted being scared and jealous.

We both agreed to go to counseling. If there is any chance of this working, I want to take it. I care about him so much. I love him and if I can get that spark back I want it. I only hope there is a chance of that. Obviously I haven't been successful on my own. I feel like I owe it to all the good times we've had over the years to at least try. I told him I can't promise anything other than trying. I'm very deeply hurt and my feelings are still really jumbled.

He asked if I loved him and I said yes. I do love him. I care about his wellbeing. I want him to be happy more than anything. But there is something missing, that used to be there and He knows it too. The spark of romantic physical love is not there. I enjoy being with him, but I haven't wanted to have sex with him in a couple of months and just did it to make him happy. That's no way to live.

I feel a lot less anxious after talking with him. We are still going to text like we always do. I don't know about visits, but we will talk about it.

Mapwar, aside from you being rude, It's not about the tests. It's about the breach of trust as I've explained several times in the 11 pages of this thread. You should try reading before posting.

Nice to hear. We're sure things will work out though, just takes time.

[ThePiedPiper]

We believe you are the one who has missed the point. We were extrapolating from what you had inferred concerning trust, and attempted to reason based upon it logically. It doesn't matter that an institution has served you in the evolutionary genetics field. As humans, we have the power to control them, but controlling instincts are beyond our limits. We subjoined philosophical empirical knowledge as well, though. Our main point is stop blaming everything on her SO, it's not entirely his fault. Golos trusts his friend Pjork, although Golos would read all Pjork's messages if he could, even though they're not in a relationship. In this case, the crime was purely curiosity, but not trust.

I tried to stay out of this, but empirical knowledge is the polar opposite of philosophical knowledge. It is the difference between analysing the results of an empirical study and reading a theory article and taking out of it the important points. Empirical knowledge is, yes, based on observation but is most commonly used in the context of research that has proven, through careful measurement and methodology, that a correlation between x and y exists in the form of z. Philosophy is based more on theory, what people think and why they drew those conclusions.

I also want to say that evolutionary psychology is not the only branch of psychology that exists, and it actually has more evidence against it and less proponents for it than some of the other subdivisions. This isn't to say that evolutionary psychology does not have its place, but to state that people are curious and so he read her texts because that's human nature and so it should be an expected part of all relationships is to neglect the myriad of other factors that play into and influence the human psyche. Furthermore, to state that being yelled at, or someone getting angry at you, is a direct result of your wrong doing is ignorant. For example, I tutor. I see my students at the same time on the same day every week. With one of last semester's students, she required appointment reminders. I called a day in advance. I called that morning and spoke with her and we agreed that I would call 10 minutes prior to our meeting reminding her to leave the house. I did so, she did not answer, so I assumed she had left the house. She did not show up. I later received a call from the mother who was angry at me for the fact her daughter's homework was not done. I let her vent, then calmly explained the situation, she yelled some more, and then we talked it out until her anger was resolved. The aggression was redirected. She was angry at the circumstances and angry at her daughter and perhaps angry at me, too, but I had done nothing wrong. I had done nothing out of the bounds of what was agreed upon and followed through on my end of the bargain. This can happen in relationships, as well. If her boyfriend has deep rooted insecurities, insecurities that are irrational no matter how real they may seem to him, these insecurities are going to surface in certain contexts whether or not Rugger has done something to provoke them. If having contact with a male party sets off his insecurities, this is an issue the SO needs to work on; Rugger does not need to be manipulated and controlled into giving up contact with all males forever to coddle her boyfriend's insecurities. Yes, it can be talked about and a solution can be reached, but this can be done with trust, communication and respect versus out of anger and deceit.

[Shepard-Fowkes]

I'd like to also address Thoth(s).

Regarding your attempts at logic and explaining human behavior: people and relationships are illogical, no point in arguing logic here. Also, human beings have not only curiosity but also the reasoning capabilities to know whether their curiosity is appropriate or not. In this case, it was clearly not appropriate. Just because we are programmed in one way, it does not mean that we cannot be reprogrammed to behave in a more acceptable way. Besides, he is a grown adult and, as such, should be able to control his own actions, regardless of their origin within his brain.

I also think that your opinions about trust come across as a bit immature. Privacy is important in a relationship, and its levels can vary depending upon their own comfort. Although a couple acts as a unit, it's important not to neglect that there are still two individuals within that relationship. Your beliefs about how trust "should" work in a relationship (please keep in mind that while what may work for one relationship may not work for others, there are a few general rules that can GUARANTEE an unhealthy relationship) do come across as not having much experience backing them. Going through a phone does not make a relationship more open. What makes a relationship open is the people involved feeling able to open up unprompted. For example, if my mom had read my diary when I was younger, that wouldn't have made our relationship at all trusting. But when I'm able to open up on my own to her, that's a sign of a good relationship. I want to open up my life to someone, not have them barge their way through. That's what makes a good relationship so special. Anybody could learn things about my life, but it's only the special few who I go out of my way to tell about my life. If your lives are totally open to each other and the other person knows everything anyway, what is there to trust? Sometimes, my partner doesn't want to talk about something. I show that I trust him by not freaking out and demanding to know what's going on. I trust him enough to know that what he's hiding isn't anything that is going to hurt me or anything bad like that. And showing that trust in him has always been successful for us. It means that, when big things come up, I can trust him then, too. That's real trust.

Rugger's SO did not demonstrate trust, and that is why she posted here. Why did he yell at her? Again, people are irrational. Believe it or not, sometimes people do not react in a way you would expect them to. It does not sound like he had found anything inappropriate in her texts, just that she was texting her friends and no funny business was involved. I think it is disingenuous for you to operate on the assumption that she is hiding something from is. Rugger is a long-term member of these forums, and based upon the way we have seen her write before, the rest of the community will trust (!!) her to not be hiding any details. Her story sounds perfectly plausible and if you wish to give good advice, it is important not to subject the OP to the Spanish Inquisition when their story sounds legitimate on its own.

--

Rugger, I hope that in therapy you and your SO can figure out what was going on there and how to fix it. I also hope you make absolutely sure that this relationship is what you want. It's okay to not want to hurt him, but you deserve to be happy, too. If deep down you DON'T want this relationship to work, then therapy will definitely not work either. You have to want this, you have to want him. You both have to be able to let go of the mistakes of the past. Really make sure that this is what you want. I hope you figure out a way for you to be happy again.

[Thoth]

I tried to stay out of this, but empirical knowledge is the polar opposite of philosophical knowledge. It is the difference between analysing the results of an empirical study and reading a theory article and taking out of it the important points. Empirical knowledge is, yes, based on observation but is most commonly used in the context of research that has proven, through careful measurement and methodology, that a correlation between x and y exists in the form of z. Philosophy is based more on theory, what people think and why they drew those conclusions.

I also want to say that evolutionary psychology is not the only branch of psychology that exists, and it actually has more evidence against it and less proponents for it than some of the other subdivisions. This isn't to say that evolutionary psychology does not have its place, but to state that people are curious and so he read her texts because that's human nature and so it should be an expected part of all relationships is to neglect the myriad of other factors that play into and influence the human psyche. Furthermore, to state that being yelled at, or someone getting angry at you, is a direct result of your wrong doing is ignorant. For example, I tutor. I see my students at the same time on the same day every week. With one of last semester's students, she required appointment reminders. I called a day in advance. I called that morning and spoke with her and we agreed that I would call 10 minutes prior to our meeting reminding her to leave the house. I did so, she did not answer, so I assumed she had left the house. She did not show up. I later received a call from the mother who was angry at me for the fact her daughter's homework was not done. I let her vent, then calmly explained the situation, she yelled some more, and then we talked it out until her anger was resolved. The aggression was redirected. She was angry at the circumstances and angry at her daughter and perhaps angry at me, too, but I had done nothing wrong. I had done nothing out of the bounds of what was agreed upon and followed through on my end of the bargain. This can happen in relationships, as well. If her boyfriend has deep rooted insecurities, insecurities that are irrational no matter how real they may seem to him, these insecurities are going to surface in certain contexts whether or not Rugger has done something to provoke them. If having contact with a male party sets off his insecurities, this is an issue the SO needs to work on; Rugger does not need to be manipulated and controlled into giving up contact with all males forever to coddle her boyfriend's insecurities. Yes, it can be talked about and a solution can be reached, but this can be done with trust, communication and respect versus out of anger and deceit.

Finally, we've been notified of the disparity between philosophical knowledge and empirical. We were using philosophical as the fallacies, the empirical came from experience or knowledge gathering (attentive observation, scrutinizing articles, etc). Thank you for not staying out of this, your wisdom is actually worth a lot to us. We had read an article based on methodology of theories and critical thinking (The Keegstra Affair) so it's easy to comprehend what you mean. We believe we understand more now. We believed that if the guy yelled at her, that she did something wrong. Although we were also concerned of the fact that he may have been delusional as well. What we detest though is that anyone in a relationship would talk in a platonic manner with their co-workers/friends of the opposite sex though. No one should be getting that treatment but the SO.

I'd like to also address Thoth(s).

Regarding your attempts at logic and explaining human behavior: people and relationships are illogical, no point in arguing logic here. Also, human beings have not only curiosity but also the reasoning capabilities to know whether their curiosity is appropriate or not. In this case, it was clearly not appropriate. Just because we are programmed in one way, it does not mean that we cannot be reprogrammed to behave in a more acceptable way. Besides, he is a grown adult and, as such, should be able to control his own actions, regardless of their origin within his brain.

I also think that your opinions about trust come across as a bit immature. Privacy is important in a relationship, and its levels can vary depending upon their own comfort. Although a couple acts as a unit, it's important not to neglect that there are still two individuals within that relationship. Your beliefs about how trust "should" work in a relationship (please keep in mind that while what may work for one relationship may not work for others, there are a few general rules that can GUARANTEE an unhealthy relationship) do come across as not having much experience backing them. Going through a phone does not make a relationship more open. What makes a relationship open is the people involved feeling able to open up unprompted. For example, if my mom had read my diary when I was younger, that wouldn't have made our relationship at all trusting. But when I'm able to open up on my own to her, that's a sign of a good relationship. I want to open up my life to someone, not have them barge their way through. That's what makes a good relationship so special. Anybody could learn things about my life, but it's only the special few who I go out of my way to tell about my life. If your lives are totally open to each other and the other person knows everything anyway, what is there to trust? Sometimes, my partner doesn't want to talk about something. I show that I trust him by not freaking out and demanding to know what's going on. I trust him enough to know that what he's hiding isn't anything that is going to hurt me or anything bad like that. And showing that trust in him has always been successful for us. It means that, when big things come up, I can trust him then, too. That's real trust.

Rugger's SO did not demonstrate trust, and that is why she posted here. Why did he yell at her? Again, people are irrational. Believe it or not, sometimes people do not react in a way you would expect them to. It does not sound like he had found anything inappropriate in her texts, just that she was texting her friends and no funny business was involved. I think it is disingenuous for you to operate on the assumption that she is hiding something from is. Rugger is a long-term member of these forums, and based upon the way we have seen her write before, the rest of the community will trust (!!) her to not be hiding any details. Her story sounds perfectly plausible and if you wish to give good advice, it is important not to subject the OP to the Spanish Inquisition when their story sounds legitimate on its own.

--

Rugger, I hope that in therapy you and your SO can figure out what was going on there and how to fix it. I also hope you make absolutely sure that this relationship is what you want. It's okay to not want to hurt him, but you deserve to be happy, too. If deep down you DON'T want this relationship to work, then therapy will definitely not work either. You have to want this, you have to want him. You both have to be able to let go of the mistakes of the past. Really make sure that this is what you want. I hope you figure out a way for you to be happy again.

When you talk about how people and relationships are illogical, we've never actually considered that. It's true that he should have controlled his actions and appealed to his SO, but he was probably anxious of the following conversation. If we knew what he read, we believe it would make more sense. We just didn't understand why he yelled at her. What we're saying is, there must have been a very good reason for him to yell at her. Isn't asking to read texts kind of a sign of distrust though? We only believed that there would be a good reason for the yelling, but from what we're being told, there was no reason.

[Sora1101]

When you talk about how people and relationships are illogical, we've never actually considered that. It's true that he should have controlled his actions and appealed to his SO, but he was probably anxious of the following conversation. If we knew what he read, we believe it would make more sense. We just didn't understand why he yelled at her. What we're saying is, there must have been a very good reason for him to yell at her. Isn't asking to read texts kind of a sign of distrust though? We only believed that there would be a good reason for the yelling, but from what we're being told, there was no reason.

While asking to read her texts might be a sign of distrust (might not depending on how he approached asking) actually waiting till she leaves the room to read her texts without her permission DEFINITELY shows distrust.

From what I gather from reading through the thread it sounds as though he yelled at her because she got angry at him for looking through her texts, aka he became defensive and therefore lashed out at her even though he was the one who did something wrong, not her. The point here is that he approached the situation in completely the wrong way because he was irrationally jealous. He should have not only trusted her enough to know she wasn't doing any wrong but he should have also RESPECTED her enough to give her privacy and to leave her personal belongings alone.

[jennten]

What we detest though is that anyone in a relationship would talk in a platonic manner with their co-workers/friends of the opposite sex though. No one should be getting that treatment but the SO.

Um, what?

[Dezface]

F What we detest though is that anyone in a relationship would talk in a platonic manner with their co-workers/friends of the opposite sex though. No one should be getting that treatment but the SO.

I haven't responded to this thread because I didn't really have much to add that hasn't already been said, but seriously what the hell. If you truly believe that a person in a relationship should not talk to a member of the opposite sex, you are immature and delusional. I wish I could see the day see when you realize the what an asinine statement that is.

You seem to have a lot of book smarts to throw around, but real world experience is valuable too. I think it might be wise to get some before you go around making blanket statements that hold no weight in reality.

[Tanja]

The creepiness just went up a notch or two.

Thoth: maybe you should live a little before coming to give "advice". Yes I get it that you've read articles and books and are smart, I can see you're trying to prove that by using big words like you think adults would. But you're just a kid and you have absolutely no idea what the real life struggles in a long -term relationship can be like and that doesn't change by throwing in big words or quoting philosophy articles. It only proves that your knowledge is based on paper and it has nothing to do with reality.

Love isn't always rational and no matter how many fancy schmancy books you read people will NEVER act like it. There's no text book you can look up issues from and judge who is right or wrong. You can't come in someones thread at the age of 14 and act like you know more about "love" and "trust" than adult people who actually have experienced it for years.

Grow up or shut up.

[Zephii]

What we detest though is that anyone in a relationship would talk in a platonic manner with their co-workers/friends of the opposite sex though. No one should be getting that treatment but the SO.

And what I detest are people stuck in the freaking 1800s. Exactly why is it wrong to have a friendly PLATONIC (you know the meaning of this word right?) conversation with someone of the opposite sex? How do you manage to go through life avoiding talking to people of the opposite gender? Do you switch checkouts at the supermarket because you're afraid your SO is so immature they'll take your friendly smile the wrong way? I mean seriously, WTF?

Tell me, if it is so wrong to have friends of the opposite gender, what are gay people supposed to do? Or worse, bisexuals? Are they supposed to have no friends at all because anyone could be a potential date?

Do you each walk down the street and feel attracted to EVERY person of the opposite gender you see? No, of course you don't (if you do, seek help because that shit's not normal). So what makes you think that your SO does? Or that it is detestable that other people can have friends whom they don't wish to fuck whom might just have different genitals to their own. There's no logic here at all.

If you think talking to people of the opposite gender is disgusting you'll probably vomit to know that my male best friend was one of my bridesmaids and OMG my husband trusts me enough to not care.

I am sorry to Rugger for adding to the derailing of this thread but I don't think it's salvageable at this point anyway.