The Men of LFAD

[80anthea]

Dunno, *I* know it's there That is really a more appropriate place for this, I think, but the Groups section tends to be very under-utilized, which is probably why you didn't know about it. Either way, if you search them alphabetically, it should be under "L". Also, I'm not bitching because of having a men's thread, but it starts to be a slippery slope when derogatory language is allowed, like "All women are xxx", or "All women act xxx", or "All women do xxx", that's when it becomes a problem. If that non-American thread, for example, were real, and there are enough people out there that hate the US, and it was full of US bashing and bias, that wouldn't be allowed, right? They can have it, but like the forum guidelines say, they have to be respectful. That was my complaint, and I stand by that. I'll always hit back when I see that kind of garbage posted anywhere, especially since anybody can create a thread like Germans Only, Black People Only, Muslims Only, it seems like a great idea at the time, but everyone has to be careful that it doesn't turn nasty.

Exactly.

I did start the 'Non-Americans' thread as a mockery of this thread. However it was also to make a point; Hollandia you are the first on here to rant about 'American bashing' whenever anybody hints at such a phrase as 'All Americans.....'. There is no such thing as 'All' in America, America is full of a spectrum of beliefs, cultures, types of people, political views etc etc but there are some people who lump you all together (wrongly) as the capitalist, war-loving, terrorist hunting, gun loving world police. It is wrong when people make assumptions on a whole population of people like this. Sometimes these beliefs come from the society they have grown up in and the parenting they have received so whereas the belief is not right, there is an explanation behind it.

I think the same can be said for saying things about 'All women, or All men'. Women and men do have different biology and genetics so they are different but this does not mean that all women and all men think alike. Within women there is a huge spectrum of beliefs and characteristics, some are emotional, some are not. There is a societal pressure in some parts for women and men to conform to the stereotypes we set....i used to work with Early years children and there were many Dad's even in the twenty first century who very strongly did not want their young sons playing with dolls. Is there any wonder then that these boys preferred cars? No not really as playing with cars was what was expected of them.

I have told this story before on here but whilst shopping for my own daughter we went into a local toy shop, there were two very similar medical toy kits. One was pink and labelled 'Nurse's kit' the other blue and labelled 'Doctor's kit'!!!! Again the same with lego, the 'girl' lego is in pink boxes and the 'boy' lego in blue boxes. My daughter wanted the firefighting lego truck which wa spart of the blue range and when we took it to the checkout the lady asked her if it was a gift for her brother! I'm sure there are many many more examples of social conditioning of children into gender roles, some even more subtle than these. Another bug bear of mine is characters in children's books.....have you read 'The Tiger who came to Tea'???

Anyway back to the point as I've gone off in ranty mode. I don't think segregation by male/female is a good idea at all, it only strengthens the false idea that we are completely different from one another in exactly the same way I would think a black/white divide would also be very wrong.

[lucybelle]

but there are some people who lump you all together (wrongly) as the capitalist, war-loving, terrorist hunting, gun loving world police.

and this

[Davidvs]

Good question, did they know it was still there? Is it? How would they know about it? I have never heard of it and would be happy to move the thread there.

I just looked it up... 38 members, 1 thread, last post was 10/26/10.

My guess is that not many of us guys know its there...

Besides, finding it would mean having to ask for directions, and of course...

All men are incapable of asking for directions. Especially from a woman.

(Is that last sentence gonna get me in trouble now? )

[Luc]

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Men%27s+Rights+Activism

I will again pose the question I have posed many times: why do we need to separate things into "men's" and "women's" point of view? Why can't people just respond in terms of being human beings with opinions on whatever is being said instead of making a Boys Only Treehouse because the man-hating harpies won't let the dudes of the forum state their opinions unchallenged? I, for one, call out anyone, regardless of gender, if I think they're wrong, and this is exactly what's happening here.

For example, Hollandia, I think this thread is doing more harm than good. Just like anybody else, if a guy wants to post here because he wants to be part of our community, he can. If people agree with him, they'll say so, and if not, they'll say so, again, just like any other member of the forum. I also really hate the way you use the word "female". It's degrading. We're women, here, and we can disagree with a man because he is wrong, not because he's *gasp* a man invading our womanspace!!!

I wonder how things would go if the roles where reversed, if the men where in the majority and the women got their own thread, and then the men would complain about it and say "you women already got your on little group somewhere there in the group section, go there". I bet a lot of people here would cry SEXISM and PATRIARCHY as a response to your post. But because the roles are reversed now, because the men are in the minority now and it's the women who tell them that they can't have a thread dedicated to their point of view, it's all okay.

I wonder how many people would flip a b*tch if I would say the same thing about feminism as you just said about this thread or male-orientated things in general. After all, why do we need separate things for men and women? Feminism is such a Women's Only Treehouse, we don't need that.

[Moon]

I just looked it up... 38 members, 1 thread, last post was 10/26/10.

My guess is that not many of us guys know its there...

Besides, finding it would mean having to ask for directions, and of course...

All men are incapable of asking for directions. Especially from a woman.

(Is that last sentence gonna get me in trouble now? )

That kind of sarcasm isn't appreciated, especially since everyone knows a woman is incapable of providing directions.

[iamj]

Random question since this thread has evolved so much today! what's an MRA?

[Luc]

Also, I'm not bitching because of having a men's thread, but it starts to be a slippery slope when derogatory language is allowed, like "All women are xxx", or "All women act xxx", or "All women do xxx", that's when it becomes a problem.

You know Moon, believe it or not, but I actually AGREE with that. Which is why I believe this whole discussion is one big misunderstanding.

Not one did I say ALL women are like X, or ALL women act like Y, I was always speaking from generalities, meaning that I believe women in general are like X, or act like Y. Every person is unique, no question about that. But there are behavioral patterns that connect us.

Not once did I mean to insult the entire female gender when I spoke of these patterns and generalities that I see in men and women. Not once. If you feel I did insult the entire female gender somewhere, then my sincere apologies. If you can, please point it out specifically, and perhaps I can try to explain what I really meant and why I think the way I think, believe the way I believe and say the things I say. I can assure you, that I have nothing but respect for both men and women, and I will always treat both genders with equal respect.

[Luc]

Random question since this thread has evolved so much today! what's an MRA?

Men's Rights Activism. An organisation that fights for the rights and equality of men. Basically like what feminism is/used to be, but for men's rights instead of women's rights.

[Malaga]

The irony is that between the few male posters we had, so many of them expressed very similar concerns to female posters. They were worried about their girlfriends not returning their calls or were overthinking what she said or had a pattern of needy behaviour. I never noticed a pattern of male posters posting in a specific way and female posters posting in another way, nor did I ever think about it. I suppose these guys felt this was a safe place to talk about their relationship issues as everyone was treated individually and not shoehorned into their demographics.

The now infamous Midlife Crisis became a shitstorm when a few posters stood up against the gross generalisations being dished about, advocating individualism that helps maintain forum a safe non-discriminating place. But the reaction to disagreement was - holy shit it's gender wars! Discrimination! Women attacking men! Men need protection!

I cannot understand how advocating individualism and freedom for all men and women to define their own masculinity and femininity is anti-men... But I can see how it's anti-establishment. And I can understand why certain men might have a problem with that, because they benefit from perpetuating the stereotypes. And certain women, because of their internalized sexism.

[Chillosaurus]

Men's Rights Activism. An organisation that fights for the rights and equality of men. Basically like what feminism is/used to be, but for men's rights instead of women's rights.

I disagree. My dictionary says that feminism is a movement to better the conditions for women. That is something which has not much to do with equality. Same for MRA, which is only focussed on men and doesn't care about women.

[Luc]

I disagree. My dictionary says that feminism is a movement to better the conditions for women. That is something which has not much to do with equality. Same for MRA, which is only focussed on men and doesn't care about women.

Quite right. I actually agree with you. But that's not how these organisations present themselves. Both the MRA movement and feminism all talk about equality, they both claim that equality is their ultimate goal.

[freakydeakydutchdude]

Obviously this place is a f*cking knitting club gone out of control. Why any self respecting man would actually want to be here is beyond my comprehension for the moment. Feel free to delete my account. I encourage all men here to once again take control of their own balls grow a beard and leave this place in search of a bar that serves cold beer. ¡Hasta luego muchachas!

[Chillosaurus]

Look, it is true that for many reasons that we could discuss ad infinitum, this is a community overwhelmingly populated by women. If that alone detracts men from joining and participating, that is on them, not us. [...]

Yes, the concerns I put into my very first post are real. It's not the number of women, it is a communicational issue. It is not only a men's problem, there is more than one person in an interaction.
(I only quote this part, because it is the only part which actually is related to my post.)

[Luc]

The irony is that between the few male posters we had, so many of them expressed very similar concerns to female posters. They were worried about their girlfriends not returning their calls or were overthinking what she said or had a pattern of needy behaviour. I never noticed a pattern of male posters posting in a specific way and female posters posting in another way, nor did I ever think about it. I suppose these guys felt this was a safe place to talk about their relationship issues as everyone was treated individually and not shoehorned into their demographics.

I think several factors play a role here.

First, I think what another male poster here said earlier is true, it takes a specific kind of man to be in an LDR, and look up a forum about LDRs and feeling the need to express their concerns on it. Not many men would do that, but some men (like us) do.

Second, anonymity. We can put out our feelings openly here without anyone really knowing who we are. This makes people feel more willing to open themselves up without feeling vulnerable, both men and women.

Third, this forum is mostly populated by women. I don't know how the other men think about this, but I personally find it more easy to express my feelings towards a woman than towards another man. I feel women are often better listeners and care more about your feelings, while men either don't give a shit about your feelings or they focus too much on the practical side of your issues and come with pure, cold, sometimes rude, practical suggestions, such as "just dump her man, there are plenty of other fish in the sea" or "dude whatever just ignore her" or "you gotta show her that she's out of line man, don't be such a wimp". That's not always what I want or need.

[Hollandia]

Exactly.

I did start the 'Non-Americans' thread as a mockery of this thread. However it was also to make a point; Hollandia you are the first on here to rant about 'American bashing' whenever anybody hints at such a phrase as 'All Americans.....'. There is no such thing as 'All' in America, America is full of a spectrum of beliefs, cultures, types of people, political views etc etc but there are some people who lump you all together (wrongly) as the capitalist, war-loving, terrorist hunting, gun loving world police. It is wrong when people make assumptions on a whole population of people like this. Sometimes these beliefs come from the society they have grown up in and the parenting they have received so whereas the belief is not right, there is an explanation behind it.

I think the same can be said for saying things about 'All women, or All men'. Women and men do have different biology and genetics so they are different but this does not mean that all women and all men think alike. Within women there is a huge spectrum of beliefs and characteristics, some are emotional, some are not. There is a societal pressure in some parts for women and men to conform to the stereotypes we set....i used to work with Early years children and there were many Dad's even in the twenty first century who very strongly did not want their young sons playing with dolls. Is there any wonder then that these boys preferred cars? No not really as playing with cars was what was expected of them.

I have told this story before on here but whilst shopping for my own daughter we went into a local toy shop, there were two very similar medical toy kits. One was pink and labelled 'Nurse's kit' the other blue and labelled 'Doctor's kit'!!!! Again the same with lego, the 'girl' lego is in pink boxes and the 'boy' lego in blue boxes. My daughter wanted the firefighting lego truck which wa spart of the blue range and when we took it to the checkout the lady asked her if it was a gift for her brother! I'm sure there are many many more examples of social conditioning of children into gender roles, some even more subtle than these. Another bug bear of mine is characters in children's books.....have you read 'The Tiger who came to Tea'???

Anyway back to the point as I've gone off in ranty mode. I don't think segregation by male/female is a good idea at all, it only strengthens the false idea that we are completely different from one another in exactly the same way I would think a black/white divide would also be very wrong.

80, No men are bashing any women here. That is the difference. I only take an issue with American bashing. Make a thread for this or that, because whether we stick our head in the sand about it or not, we are different. Yes, Americans are different but so are French from Dutch or Italians from Greek. I don't see why anyone should take such issue with allowing a minority to be heard from but yet the rage over it continues as the men continue to tell you that liked the idea.