Ultimatums - sometimes necesssary or emotional abuse?

[Sakuu4]

I agree with Ejoriah!

Also, you already did a lot to help him (the sim stuff is really clever btw, I should do that too!).
It's funny cause I'm like him with running and I have problems with "the surface" as well ahah but when I was there last time (1 month) I still exercised at home and went walking everyday. :\

I was wondering..could it be that he's kind of postponing even answering cause he thinks he needs to have a plan ready for when he says "I want to move"? My boyfriend told me that he never shared his thought about our future cause he didn't have concrete facts and he was afraid of making me have expectations and then letting me down in case it didn't go well. Basically he thought he couldn't say "yes, I want to close the distance" without having a real plan to pursue.
Maybe your SO wants to have a job offer or something like that before telling you that he will come since he already postponed many times?

[Rezie]

I agree with Ejoriah!

Also, you already did a lot to help him (the sim stuff is really clever btw, I should do that too!).
It's funny cause I'm like him with running and I have problems with "the surface" as well ahah but when I was there last time (1 month) I still exercised at home and went walking everyday. :\

I was wondering..could it be that he's kind of postponing even answering cause he thinks he needs to have a plan ready for when he says "I want to move"? My boyfriend told me that he never shared his thought about our future cause he didn't have concrete facts and he was afraid of making me have expectations and then letting me down in case it didn't go well. Basically he thought he couldn't say "yes, I want to close the distance" without having a real plan to pursue.
Maybe your SO wants to have a job offer or something like that before telling you that he will come since he already postponed many times?

The sim card is actually pretty good. I can understand being fussy not surfaces. Well I hate running so not that deeply 😀. But using excuse I can't go running when asked why he is being weird is not Ok when you decide not to do it. I live in a country that is made of fields and forests. So you can find any type of surface!


The thing about postboning is that he never promised he would come over. Technically saying "one last contract, contracts usually last 3 months" is not a promise. It is a strong suggestion and a given assumption. I'm sure he would really like to have a job offer before moving but I have no idea if he is applying or looking into anything. At least he hasn't asked me to send links. Also he can't be picky. In my opinion he should take any job and then look for jobs in his own field while being here already. But again this is just an example how we think differently and I don't havea right to force him to do what I think would be the best. He is actually pretty good communicator but in this subject he is terrible. He could easily be looking at work and calling companies but when I'm not let know of this in my mind he is not doing anything. Even 'I'm moving there only if I have a permanent job in your home town in my own field' is a statement. All this makes me think if I should relocate there and see if that would make things better. But the I think about the reasons why we chose this place. And then it gets even more confusing.

All in all. He might be brewing a master plan or he could have forgotten about the whole thing and waiting for me to forget the whole closing the distance thing as well. Sometimes i wonder if he would be happy to keep doing the LDR. We have been doing the LDR for 5 years and I've been wantig to close the distance for 2 years. When it didn't go as planned I've been contenplating everything for 6 months and now what I've reached a solution I'm hppy with he is still thinking eventhough he has been saying t is clear to him. And then he can be like nothing is going on and I feel like crap. He is a very nice person. I'm just frustrated.

[kittyxuchiha11]

The thing about postboning is that he never promised he would come over. Technically saying "one last contract, contracts usually last 3 months" is not a promise. It is a strong suggestion and a given assumption. I'm sure he would really like to have a job offer before moving but I have no idea if he is applying or looking into anything. At least he hasn't asked me to send links. Also he can't be picky. In my opinion he should take any job and then look for jobs in his own field while being here already. But again this is just an example how we think differently and I don't havea right to force him to do what I think would be the best. He is actually pretty good communicator but in this subject he is terrible.

I just want to make a little point about this. He may be being picky because he knows that it wont look good to get a job just to move there then leave that out of the blue for another job more suited to him. Like say if he were to take a job working in retail just so he could move and then he suddenly finds a job he really wants, the person hiring him will see that he suddenly just left a job with no explanation and the manager from the previous job probably won't give him a good recommendation for that either. Little things like that can make or break positions so he could just be very cautious over that but doesn't want to tell you that because you've possibly expressed your opinion on things leik this before to him.
Hope that didn't come across as too mean or anything, best of luck!

[Rezie]

I just want to make a little point about this. He may be being picky because he knows that it wont look good to get a job just to move there then leave that out of the blue for another job more suited to him. Like say if he were to take a job working in retail just so he could move and then he suddenly finds a job he really wants, the person hiring him will see that he suddenly just left a job with no explanation and the manager from the previous job probably won't give him a good recommendation for that either. Little things like that can make or break positions so he could just be very cautious over that but doesn't want to tell you that because you've possibly expressed your opinion on things leik this before to him.
Hope that didn't come across as too mean or anything, best of luck!

I can understand that as well. Now we are all just making assumptions what another person might think i dont know what is going on in his head. I dont think you should settle for any job just because I say so 😀 I also think that in this economy finding suitable job in your own field right away is very unlikely even to freshly graduated locals let alone to foreigners that have no work experience in the country. I can understand being worried about switching jobs too soon and not getting a reference but when you have 15 years of work experience to back you up you have to take some risks if you want to relocate. If you don't want to relocate unless is makes sense professionally then that is a different thing. And if you work in retail in order to move and then find a job in your own field I dont think that is leaving out of the blue and the reason is quite understandable and obvious to the new employer when explained. But that's just my opinion in general. Not just concerning my boyfriend 😊

In my boyfriends case I think that he is willing to relocate if all his terms and conditions are met. He just doesn't want to say them out loud because he knows they are not realistic to achieve (at least without relocating first). So instead he says something else and acts different. We have talked about it and he denied this. So either I'm over analysing ir he hasnt admitted that to him self. And yes when we have talked about this I've phrased it much nicer, no accusations or demanded anything 😊

Edit: this is actually a subject I've talked about with my best friend since her boyfriend isn't working or too fussed about finding a job. We have noticed that there are 2 types of people. There are people who prefere to be unemployed unless they find a job that is perfect, pays enough and is fun. People who just need a job and while doing the job try to find something bettee. Me and my friend are type 2 and her bf is type 1. It comes down to value difference and it is very difficult to understand the oter ones point of view since you are wired differently. That's a little thought for the morning 😀

My rant escslated a bit. It's not about him and his job and what I want him to do. It's about not having a plan for the future, lack of communication on this department and me not being happy about continuig LDR. Sometimes it is all fine and then there are days like yesterday and today when I am annoyed.

[Sakuu4]

My rant escslated a bit. It's not about him and his job and what I want him to do. It's about not having a plan for the future, lack of communication on this department and me not being happy about continuig LDR. Sometimes it is all fine and then there are days like yesterday and today when I am annoyed.

Yeah as you said it is not about what he is thinking but the fact that he's not telling that to you.
I admire you for being patient but I also think you deserve not to be. Like just saying "tell me what you are thinking right now right away" may be harsh but it's not fair if it is just you thinking about not putting pressure/whatever his problem is. He should also think about how frustrating this situation can be for you :\

I hope he says something soon!

[Rezie]

I'll wait till Friday. Then it has been 2 weeks since he confirmed that he had in fact recieved the message. Since he has a new phone so could be that he didnt read my mesage right away. Usually he responds to them and this time he didnt. I won't make him make a decision but share what he is thinking and in what schedule. I will bring out that I need to make plans on annual leave and stuff and in order to make those it would be nice to know if I'm living with someone or if I should put days aside for visiting him.

[Redheart14]

I'll wait till Friday. Then it has been 2 weeks since he confirmed that he had in fact recieved the message. Since he has a new phone so could be that he didnt read my mesage right away. Usually he responds to them and this time he didnt. I won't make him make a decision but share what he is thinking and in what schedule. I will bring out that I need to make plans on annual leave and stuff and in order to make those it would be nice to know if I'm living with someone or if I should put days aside for visiting him.

Hope things are ok

[Rezie]

Hope things are ok

Ok so you know how your initial plan is to be a grown up and talk about over the phone and explain your feelings and listen to what they have to say. But then this petty childish part of you takes control?

Ok so on Wednesday something happened at his work. He what's apped me saying that he had a really shitty day and on top of it he scratched his car. So I send a message asking what happened and if he wants to talk I'm here. He just says he wants the day to be over and thanks for the support. I get it. Sometimes it's better to keep it in than explain and relive the moment especially if work is involved since we work on different fields and it is related to the actual work and not like a manager. Next day we were texting again and the work thing was bothering him and he bought a lottery ticket and made a comment* about if he won then neither of us would* need to worry a out money.* Well then the petty part of me decided that I wasn't going to call since something bothered him so if he doesn't want explain then I'm gonna give him space.

Anyways on Friday I was out late and he sent a good night message like every night with heart, kiss* faces and I love yous. I responded back on Saturday morning: how I was sorry to break my promise of giving him space and time to think and not asking about it until he gets back to me.* But it has been a long time since I asked about him coming over and I'm having hard time to know how to communicate when he sends hearts and kisses and I'm trying to give space and time to think about relocation. Also how I'm having hard time to know how to make plans. Then I said how I don't need a definate answer but jut an indication what is going through his head.* (It was formed a bit better but that was basically it)

Well he hasnt responded. On Saturday he sent a goodnight message and on Sunday he sent a good night message and how* he had been visiting family over the weekend. I know I should have spoken over the phone like I was planning. But frankly the hearts and kisses and him not telling me about what is happening at work kind of made me want to send the message immediately. I'm mad, sad and indifferent all at once. I mean I get it if he doesn't want to talk when visiting family but* "I'm visiting my dad. I'll get back to you on monday" I perfectly acceptable answer.* Yes when he finally gets back to me I will point this out to him. Right now I just feel like not talking about this to him or anything else unless he indicates it. I'm just gonna make my plans and of he wants to come over then he will have to work around it. I already have an awesome holiday planned to go to Netherlands this summer

I can appreciate the irony that he has complained for months how our lack of communication is because I don't share things so he doesn't feel appreciated and doesn't want to share back. Sometimes I think he is doing this out of revenge since he was in this uncertainty for quite a long time but then I remember that out of the two of us I'm the vindictive one and he isn't a shitty person. I really think that this is one of those things where we take things differently. He propably wants to get back when he has a proper answer and proper time.* Where as I just need to know that something is happening and some thoughts are being processed. With us it often goes that I can put myself in his shoes and understand but he doesn't* know how to see my POV. We have talked about this but this is something he struggles until I point out why I felt a certain* way.

On top of this all I'm so used to him that at moments I forget how things are going and happily plan visits to see him and him coming here and I'm seeing what opportunities I would have to relocate and thinkig if I actually should relocate and that would fix everything. Then I realize that this has gone way past the location. It's a very weird feeling. This is so unlike us so it's kind of hard to understand what is happening. I know my own advise if I was an outsider but since I do know the history it's really hard to think.
*

[Redheart14]

I would say just plan for you

[Rezie]

We finally talked. You know the feeling when you are set to give them a piece of your mind and then it turns around and actually you are in the wrong?

So via text I ask if he wants to holiday together. He reponds what times are appropriate to him based on his work schedule. I'm a bit wtf since his job was suppose to end in April. He tells me that he is thinking of extending his contract. Then he bangs on about the dates of holiday.* I say that what's the point of going on holiday if he doesn't want to be in a close distance relationship. Then he said that I was putting on words in his mouth. I said that I want to talk when I get home.

At home I text him that I'm home if he wants to talk. He sends a text saying that he is tired and is having an early night.* But asked me dates for the holiday. I say that I haven't put anything down cause it depends on what we are going to do and ask if I can call since I'm sensing a hostility. He asks if I'm going to be hostile and why I'm keeping my holiday dates a secret. I ask again if I can call and he says yes but it has to be a quick call.

On the phone he explaines that he was very hurt from our last big conversation.* He felt like I was attacking him and blaming him and disecting all his faults. This hurt him and really hurt his confidence since he feels like he is a nice guy and I'm the only person he has let close to him. He also doesnt understand me bringing up things from years ago and how most of them were very trivial so why I can't accept them with all the good qualities. He was expecting me to calm down and call a few days later and be less harsh and apologise.* But instead he got an email from me saying that I stand by my statement but still want him to come over. So he was cofused if I think he is so terrible then why would I want to be with him? And he is not sure he wants to come over if he doesn't have 100% of my support. And that's why he has ignored my messages.* From hurt.

Well... I feel terrible for hurting his feelings. That was not my purpose and I apologised. I was so consentrated into expressive why I feel this way that I didn't really think about his feelings.* Where I was trying to bring up our differences he felt that I was pointing out his faults. I was trying to explain that my values etc. Are different. Not better, just different. But he felt like I was saying he is wrong.

I honestly don't know what to do. If we cause each other so much hurt then is it* worth it? I can't be 100% supportive of the move if I'm feeling this way. I can expect him to move if he is not 100% sure of it. In some sort weird twist I have been thinking about getting a degree in his country. So that could be a* solution. Then I would have my school to fall back. But this current situation is not something I can take another 6 months before school if I would get in.

[Chris516]

Rezie, I searched through the thread to see if I had mentioned it in reference to the title. But I don't think I mentioned it.

I don't know if it could qualify as an ultimatum. But when I was with my (ex)fiance(2002-2007). In November of 2006 right around the time that she had had a second brain surgery(I have had six, myself). I told her to stop 'diagnosing' me. She had done it thirteen times over 4.5yrs.. Up to that point, I had not said anything because she has Bi-Polar II. She immediately accused me of 'controlling' her. We broke up two months later. No one should be a doormat for emotional abuse.

[Rezie]

Rezie, I searched through the thread to see if I had mentioned it in reference to the title. But I don't think I mentioned it.

I don't know if it could qualify as an ultimatum. But when I was with my (ex)fiance(2002-2007). In November of 2006 right around the time that she had had a second brain surgery(I have had six, myself). I told her to stop 'diagnosing' me. She had done it thirteen times over 4.5yrs.. Up to that point, I had not said anything because she has Bi-Polar II. She immediately accused me of 'controlling' her. We broke up two months later. No one should be a doormat for emotional abuse.

Emotional abuse is never OK. I guess the original question was are all ultimatums bad and is it always emotional abuse. I think your example people saying things were meant and taken differently.

In the original message I was thinking is it fair to say that I need the distance to be closed by the date x or I can't continue the relationship. That was an ultimatum but also the truth. So I was thinking if this is ever fair. Well I decided against it and here we are. I didn't want to start a new thread about my relationship so even though this topic in my case has gone maybe someone has similar problems.

A update. I asked if I could come and visit during easter. He agreed. He said his contract has been renewed for another few weeks so he has money to do stuff. I obviously pointed out that I will be paying my share and we don't have to do anything expensive. Since earlier this year he pointed out he feels like I expect him to pay, I will definitely make sure I will pay my own.

Anyways in his good night message he said he was really looking forward to this and how amazing it is that we will be together for our 5th anniversary. (This is the first holiday type thing we are together. Not that we are too into the whole concept of these types of holidays) and hearths and kisses faces. I can't do that in this situation. I can't just push everything aside and be heart and kissy emojis.

The problem (another one) is that whenever we talk about the important stuff we go back to being us. We never solve anything with the talk but the mood lightens and the tension breaks so that we go back to normal. Then time passes and I have time to think, reflect and I go back to my own 'single life' where I do my own thing. Then I get reminded I have a partner but I don't get to share things with my partner and then I pull back and then gradually we stop being us and then we have an other talk and the circle continues. Then we meet up and have a great time and he thinks everything is fine and I pull back and we are back to the circle.

I have been thinking of possible solutions. If I tried to apply to do a masters in his country. I'm sure I could manage there without help and I would have my school. I would get a degree and get to live in a major European city. I'm from a huge city in my country but compared to the rest of the world this us a tiny little village. Also then I wouldn't have to worry about if he wants to be here. I could get my own flat and he could live in his hotel or wherever he wants to. It's just that I'm not sure I can do the circle for another 6 months before the school starts. I know, what's another 6 months after 5 years. It's just that I'm so tired all the time and I burst out crying at any moment. And feeling pure emotions is becoming difficult. I manage perfectly fine but I don't feel myself at all and my mind is on about the relationship all the time.

I'm not a believer in breaks. But I was thinking if I would suggest stopping for now to relieve the stress and if I get in to the school then kind of start over fresh? But this feels dumb too. Or just work really hard to make it work for 6 months and then see what Happens? Or calling it off and then go to school and see what Happens?

[Sakuu4]

I am not really in the right position to give advice since I am in a similar situation myself and I don't know what to do, but I just wanted to say, regarding your previous post (where you said you were sorry for hurting him) that of course you felt sorry for him, but it's not like thinking about not hurting him should interfere with your own feelings. If you feel in a certain way it is because of something, not just because you want to, so even if saying out loud what makes you upset will hurt him, you shouldn't refrain. It will just add up to your frustration and then get to more tension later on. So I think you are doing a good thing telling him how you feel despite him not being ready to talk, having a early night or whatever.

Also, a break isn't really helpful since you will still have the same problems when you get back together. :/

[Rezie]

I am not really in the right position to give advice since I am in a similar situation myself and I don't know what to do, but I just wanted to say, regarding your previous post (where you said you were sorry for hurting him) that of course you felt sorry for him, but it's not like thinking about not hurting him should interfere with your own feelings. If you feel in a certain way it is because of something, not just because you want to, so even if saying out loud what makes you upset will hurt him, you shouldn't refrain. It will just add up to your frustration and then get to more tension later on. So I think you are doing a good thing telling him how you feel despite him not being ready to talk, having a early night or whatever.

Also, a break isn't really helpful since you will still have the same problems when you get back together. :/

I read your threat. Your situation sounds really crappy. I do feel terrible about hurting him but I'm glad I got to tell him the truth but retrospectively it could have been said in a nicer way. Usually it's not about the words but how they are presented. Also the break relating to the 6 months between our next visit and starting school (if i get in). I don't believe in breaks but I don't like the current situation or alternatives either. So this is just an option I'm thiking about. I'm not naive enough to think breaks just stop time or are a solution. I just want to end this constant thinking and wondering what is ok and what is not. So just weighing my options. The school in his area would be a good move on my career since I could get a degree much faster than back home.

[Sakuu4]

Maybe you will be able to discuss things in person?
Depending on how things go you can ask him what he thinks of a break (which may also shake him a bit)